Rail system for AR


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Smiley
April 6, 2003, 12:46 AM
Is there a rail system out there that does not need to have the gas system dissasembled. What about free floating a barrel?

I am looking for a rail system like the SIRs sytem (only more economical) that does not require gunsmithing or removal of the front sight and/or the gas system.

I want to add to my current rifle however I want to do the work myself. I have assembled two lowers from scratch myself so far, so that is my level of technical proficiency.

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ajacobs
April 6, 2003, 08:50 AM
Knight and arms both have models that fit your needs and can be put on with out front site removal or gas sytem disasembly. Only you specified more economical. The KAC and ARMS tend to have to be more complex in order to acomplish that and things like the cmore rail tend to be cheaper becuase it is a simple tube that does require front site removal. check out www.mstn.biz

Redlg155
April 6, 2003, 10:37 AM
I am looking for a rail system like the SIRs sytem (only more economical) that does not require gunsmithing or removal of the front sight and/or the gas system.

The easiest and most economical way to add a picatinny rail system for pistol grips and accesories without any extensive modifications to your rifle are the Fobus handguards.
http://www.sableco.net/1ac446c0.jpg

These attatch to your weapon in place of your standard handuguards and are relatively inexpensive. Sable Co (http://www.sableco.net/id34.htm) has them for $60. A rail cover slides over the rails when not in use.

The rest like the SIR and the RASII do the same thing but at about $300+ more. I've seen a lot of folks satisfied with the Fobus product.

Good Shooting
Red

TechBrute
April 6, 2003, 11:01 AM
I've seen a lot of folks satisfied with the Fobus product. They are just like the Fobus holsters. They are cheap and work just fine until you actually try to use them. Then they break and leave you hangin in the wind.

Ask yourself why you want a rail system. If you need rails on all 4 sides, you are probably hanging a $500 surefire, a $400 Aimpoint, a sling on the side, etc. Most likely you'll have a vertical grip as well. With the torque you're going to put on that thing, it won't last long, and you'll wind up with $1000 worth of stuff flying to the ground.

If you just want the top rail, ARMS makes one that extends your flattop for less than $200. If you just want the vertical grip, they make ones that mount to your existing handguards. If you just want the Surefire, they make one that replaces your existing guards.

For references on the Fobus product, drop on over to AR15.com. They will line up to tell you how worthless it is.

Redlg155
April 6, 2003, 11:17 AM
There is no intermediate system that I know of that bridges the gap between the SIR/RAS/RAS II (Expensive but easy to install) and the handguard mount type that does not require removal of the FSB. The ARMS type that secure to your existing handguards suffer from the same problems as a FOBUS. They are no better.

I agree...if you are going to hang $1000 worth of stuff off of a rifle and want to run around the woods or clear rooms like a Special Forces Operator...then by all means get the SIR/RASII. Or pay someone $25 to mount a free floated system on your weapon (RIS, CMore Quad Rail, Oly Firsh, DPMS, Bushmaster...). If you can afford $1000 worth of accessories, then surely you can afford a SIR or RASII.

I agree with Tech...
Ask yourself why you want a rail system.

If you want to mount a pistol grip, then the Fobus will do just as well as any of the ones that attatch to your current handguards.

Good Shooting
Red

COHIBA
April 6, 2003, 01:10 PM
I carry both the M33 2 sided and M44 4 sided rails made by Fobus? first SAMCO.
as far as the comment by TECHBRUTE, i'll say this...

if you buy a FOBUS or FIRST SAMCO product from me and it breaks you can send it back for a full refund.i have sold multiple hundreds of fobus holsters and dozens of rails and have NEVER seen one break. period

i have the 4 sided w/ rubber rails for fulll size and carbine for $95.

by the way TECH what holster model is it that you personally have had break? i'd love to have you send it to craig fisher at fobus so they can determine where the failure occured.
psequip@bellsouth.net

TechBrute
April 6, 2003, 01:51 PM
by the way TECH what holster model is it that you personally have had break? i'd love to have you send it to craig fisher at fobus so they can determine where the failure occured. The RH paddle holster for a Glock.

The rivet in the center of the paddle scratched the heck out of frame, and the rivet at the top rear, near the trigger, popped/tore. It doesn't take a rocket scientist or craig fisher to figure out where the failure occured, and I sent it in several years ago with a nasty letter and never heard back.

I'm sure that Fobus holsters are fine to hold your gun on your hip while you're at the range, but I won't be trusting any of my guns to them any more. Anyone else is free to do what they want. I am only relating my personal experience.

If I wanted a cheap holster, I'd buy one of the Uncle Mike's or the Galco Cop series. These offer adjustable retention strength, as opposed to the "pull your pants up over your head with your holster" retention offered by Fobus.

I have no personal experience with the Fobus rails, nor will I due to past personal experiences.

COHIBA
April 6, 2003, 06:59 PM
tech, i'd like to send you a GL2SH safety holster to test and evaluate. contact me by PM, e-mail or phone to make arrangements. try it for a couple of weeks and if you dont like it send it back.

444
April 7, 2003, 11:16 PM
I just got a set of these today. I am pretty impressed. They seem to be very rugged. If you break these, you are doing something with your rifle that you shouldn't be doing. I beleive these would survive stuff that would smash a standard set of handguards. They fit very tight, I used a wooden mallet to get one of them in. They don't move at all on the rifle. I personally am not a big fan of putting optics on the handguards, but I would think that it would work out OK with these handguards. The only thing I don't like about this setup is the vertical grip moves ever so slightly back and forth. This isnt' a function of the handguards, but a function of the hand grip. They look good too.
I have another rifle with a RAS II on it. I would rather have a RAS II, but for 1/4 the price, the First Samco is certainly a good substitute.

Onslaught
April 7, 2003, 11:26 PM
If you look hard enough on the internet, you'll find people "lining up" to tell you how crappy almost anything is... And most of those people are just repeating what they read from someone else.... on the internet.

I have had a Fobus 2-rail since December. I agree with 444 that they don't move AT ALL, even under torque from the VFG, and that's pretty impressive. Unlike standard handguards, they have notches that fit into the grooves of the barrel nut (or whatever that starshaped round piece is at the end of the barrel/upper receiver) so they are quite solid. I frequently hold my rifle by the VFG, and it doesn't even flex.

Would I rather have a RASII, well... Kinda. I'd prefer to freefloat the barrel, and of course they look much cooler, but I only wanted the rails for a foregrip and flashlight... And I've used the bolt-on rails before, and I didn't like them. They are tough as nails aluminum, but they attach to your existing handguards, which is the weakpoint.

The M44 4 sided rails didn't exist when I got these.... I don't really need the side rails either, but hey, what if I change my mind? :D They also fix my biggest complaint about the 2-sided fobus... you have to remove the top HG to get the cover off if you ever do want to use it. Plus, the covers slide a bit when I grab the forend to pick up the rifle. The newer one looks more solid.

The only other annoying thing (as 444 mentioned) is the VFG sliding a bit. But in my case, it's because I'm not using the Fobus VFG, I'm using a more Knight's looking one, and since the rails on the Fobus are "flat in the middle", in other words, the rail grooves are only on the sides of the rails, anything that uses a post that screws through the handle to intersect one of the notches won't work...

Eventually, I want a FIRSCH.

444
April 8, 2003, 01:00 PM
"If you look hard enough on the internet, you'll find people "lining up" to tell you how crappy almost anything is... And most of those people are just repeating what they read from someone else.... on the internet."

Yeah, that's for sure.
I realize that these handguards arn't up to the tremendous beating given by the arm chair commandos, but they seem to be working fine in actual military combat with the IDF. http://www.isayeret.com/gear/samco/m33.htm

COHIBA
April 8, 2003, 01:29 PM
any beating hard enough to break a fobus rail is probably gonna bend the BBL, too.

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