25 cent trigger job on Glocks...


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SomeKid
December 16, 2005, 09:58 AM
The 25c job is where you lighten the pull to 3.5lb and get rid of the slack, right?

What I want to know, is why do they call it 25c job, if the piece you have to buy to replace the stock part costs $15?

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xingr8
December 16, 2005, 10:29 AM
Although changing out the Glock connector to a 3.5 lb model is often done at the same time as a $.25 trigger job, it is not really part of it. The $.25 job is called that because it only involves polishing certain parts where the only cost is the polishing compound. The $.25 job does not reduce slack, pre-travel or post-travel. All it does is make the trigger movement smoother or less gritty feeling. It doesn't really lighten the trigger pull much either, unless it is a really rough one to begin with. Smoothing things out can make it feel lighter, though.

Switching to a 3.5 lb connector will lighten the trigger pull a couple of pounds or so, but will also slightly lengthen the trigger pull. One of the good things about Glocks is that they are so easy to work on compared to most other guns.

WarMachine
December 16, 2005, 10:56 AM
From the site: http://www.alpharubicon.com/mrpoyz/glock/

The gun is now completely disassembled. If you want to go the de-luxe route (and blow the $0.25 budget. I know I did...), replace the standard 5.5 lb trigger connector with a 3.5lb one.

As the above poster said, the new connector is optional.

gudel
December 25, 2005, 05:44 AM
does it really cost 25 cents?
I've tried the 3, 5 and 8. I like the 5 better.

wally
December 25, 2005, 09:12 AM
With the 3.5 connectors I can finally hit well enough with my Glocks (17 & 21) to not embarrass myself, but I guestion if the 3.5lb connector is safe for carry.

Mine are strictly range guns (safe queens mostly these days) so its not an issue for me, but should be considered before the "Glocks are so easy to work on" crowd starts messing with things.

--wally.

Chris Rhines
December 25, 2005, 09:24 AM
Why would a 3.5# connector make a Glock unsafe to carry? It doesn't affect any of the safety systems.

- Chris

Old Fuff
December 25, 2005, 10:03 AM
I go with Wally.

Regardless of what particular make or model of handgun, if you get into the stress of a potential or actual shooting situation an extra-light trigger pull is not a good thing to have. In more then one instance a subject who was being covered has been unjustifiably shot when somebody touched the trigger and pulled with more force then intended.

But ya' shouldn't touch the trigger, right?? Sure, but we're talking about how things work on the mean streets and not a shooting range.

Back when revolvers were carried, many police departments had them modified to double-action-only, or bought them that way in the first place. When they went to automatics they often bought DAO pistols too. Those that use Glocks today usually specify 5 1/2 pounds or more.

To smooth the trigger is one thing. To lighten it on a weapon is stupid, and can get one in all kinds of trouble - during and after a shooting incident.

On the other hand, if a pistol is used exclusively on a shooting range the situation may be entirely different.

Chris Rhines
December 25, 2005, 10:30 AM
First, let me correct a common misconception. Installing a 3.5# connector into a Glock pistol does not reduce the trigger pull weight to 3.5 pounds. Assuming you change nothing else, a 3.5# connector yields a 4.5-5.0# two-stage trigger pull.

Second, let me correct another common misconception. A 3.5# trigger is hardly "extra-light." My match Glock has a 1.75# trigger by my scale. That's extra-light, and believe me, you can tell the difference.

But ya' shouldn't touch the trigger, right?? Sure, but we're talking about how things work on the mean streets and not a shooting range. The implication here is, "It's okay to violate the four rules of safe gun handling if you're in a life-or-death situation." No. I don't accept that, on the street, at the range, getting a massage, wherever. The four rules are inviolate, and people who cannot accomodate them should not be carrying guns at all.

- Chris

Rockstar
December 25, 2005, 11:14 AM
Per Chris's logical, cogent response, if you're going to screw up with a 4.5#-5# trigger, you'd probably also have screwed up, under the same circumstances, with a 6# trigger.

Old Fuff
December 25, 2005, 11:17 AM
The implication here is, "It's okay to violate the four rules of safe gun handling if you're in a life-or-death situation." No. I don't accept that, on the street, at the range, getting a massage, wherever.

I said nothing of the kind! My point was that under the substantial stress of a shooting situation a mistake sometimes happens with a lighter trigger pull then might not be the case with a heavier one. Because of this many if not most law enforcement agencies specify heavier trigger pulls.

The four rules are inviolate, and people who cannot accomodate them should not be carrying guns at all.

Agreed... But are we going to discuss what should be, or what too often is the reality?

One problem with the Glock pistol is that once you touch the trigger, additional pressure will cause it to go "bang!" This is both good and bad. If the user is well trained and practiced enough so they do the "right thing," even under stress, the system offers some real advantages. If they are not (and in real life that is too often the case) you have a high potential for a N.D. If you add a lighter trigger pull to the picture the liability goes way up.

If such an incident does occur the "shooter" may face some serious criminal charges, and civil suits won't be far behind. If it is found that the trigger pull has been both lightened and "polished" some lawyers will have a field day.

Assuming you change nothing else, a 3.5# connector yields a 4.5-5.0# two-stage trigger pull.

Again you miss my point. Glock usually installs the 5 1/2 pound triggers (regardless of the actual weight) in their service pistols. and they do so for good reasons. Some police departments don't find this to be heavy enough (New York City for example). Could it be they have some reasons too?

Chris Rhines
December 25, 2005, 11:43 AM
I said nothing of the kind! My point was that under the substantial stress of a shooting situation a mistake sometimes happens with a lighter trigger pull then might not be the case with a heavier one. Because of this many if not most law enforcement agencies specify heavier trigger pulls. The only way that such a "mistake" can be made is if the shooter is violating Rule #3, and maybe Rule #2. That is a training problem, not an equipment problem.

I prefer to assume that people who carry guns will avail themselves of enough training to avoid these kind of mistakes. If they don't, well, goodbye, good luck, and I hope we never cross paths.

Glock usually installs the 5 1/2 pound triggers (regardless of the actual weight) in their service pistols. and they do so for good reasons. Their reasons may be good and sufficent for some, but I prefer a lighter trigger on my defensive guns, for equally good reasons (namely that I like to hit what I'm shooting at.)

Also, you're still mixing up connector weight and trigger weight. The three connector weights are 3.5, 5, and 8 pound. Glock factory triggers usually show up at around 6.0-7.0 pounds out of the box (assuming a 5# connector and standard-weight trigger spring.)

It's probably worth mentioning that my carry/defense Glock 19 has the 5# connector in place. The 3.5# connector lightens the pull a little, but also adds a noticable amount of creep to the second stage. Given the choice, I'd prefer a somewhat heavier, but crisp second stage release. There are other ways to lighten the trigger weight, some of which I have taken advantage of.

- Chris

hnm201
December 25, 2005, 01:49 PM
The 25c job is where you lighten the pull to 3.5lb and get rid of the slack, right?

What I want to know, is why do they call it 25c job, if the piece you have to buy to replace the stock part costs $15?

it's called the $0.25 trigger job because it costs about 25 cents worth of simichrome or flitz to get the job done and you don't need any special tools. just a punch to remove the pins from the Glock frame and a shop towel to do the polishing.


Also, you're still mixing up connector weight and trigger weight. The three connector weights are 3.5, 5, and 8 pound. Glock factory triggers usually show up at around 6.0-7.0 pounds out of the box (assuming a 5# connector and standard-weight trigger spring.)


Chris, thank you for doing your part to reduce THR's FUD factor regarding the Glock 3.5lb connector and the stock trigger pull weight. I know that the effort seems futile at times but keep fighting the good fight. I would only add that the Glock's trigger pull weight is most effected by the configuration of three parts: the connector, the trigger spring and striker spring and that the connector alone doesn't determine the trigger pull weight.


One problem with the Glock pistol is that once you touch the trigger, additional pressure will cause it to go "bang!"


I'm confused. In this respect, how is the Glock's trigger different from other pistols' triggers (aside from 1011/XD grip safety engagement). Why would one touch the trigger before disengaging the thumb safety, if it is present?

FWIW: a glock with a proper ".25 cent trigger job" and a 3.5# oem glock connector installed (polished, but not significantly modified) will have a trigger that breaks around 4.2# to 4.5#, which imho is ok for carry or comp.

I also tend to use 3.5 connectors in my game guns and 5lbs connectors in my carry guns.

Again you miss my point. Glock usually installs the 5 1/2 pound triggers (regardless of the actual weight) in their service pistols. and they do so for good reasons. Some police departments don't find this to be heavy enough (New York City for example). Could it be they have some reasons too?

Actually, they install 5.5# connectors in their service pistols. Glock created the NY trigger springs because there was a market demand for it. The police departments that don't find the glocks with 5.5 connectors and their resulting ~6.5# trigger pull to be heavy enough should either reissue DA only revolvers or teach some proper trigger hygiene.

Old Fuff
December 25, 2005, 02:11 PM
The only way that such a "mistake" can be made is if the shooter is violating Rule #3, and maybe Rule #2. That is a training problem, not an equipment problem.

I would tend to agree, but there is a problem never-the less, and it has a potential to become a big legal one following a shooting.

I prefer to assume that people who carry guns will avail themselves of enough training to avoid these kind of mistakes. If they don't, well, goodbye, good luck, and I hope we never cross paths.

Again you may (or may not) be right, but on The High Road we try to explain the pitfalls rather then leave others to their fate. SomeKid is looking for some advice and answers, and I presume he is getting some.

Their reasons may be good and sufficent for some, but I prefer a lighter trigger on my defensive guns, for equally good reasons (namely that I like to hit what I'm shooting at.)

You'd better bet that these police departments and other law enforcement agencies have "good and sufficient reasons," and that's why I brought them up. But because you prefer a lighter trigger pull (and apparently need one because you like to hit what (you're) shooting at) doesn't necessarily mean that your solution is the best advise for "SomeKid" or others who are following along.

There are many issues involved, and I am presenting some of them, while you are offering others - which you have a perfect right too do. So long as all views on the subject are fairly presented we'll be on the right track.

Sactown
December 25, 2005, 02:55 PM
I did the .25 cent job and also installed a 3.5 Ghost connectoer. I do not feel the trigger is light by any means. I would feel perfectly safe using it as a carry gun.

stevelyn
December 26, 2005, 12:37 AM
With the 3.5 connectors I can finally hit well enough with my Glocks (17 & 21) to not embarrass myself, but I guestion if the 3.5lb connector is safe for carry.

Mine are strictly range guns (safe queens mostly these days) so its not an issue for me, but should be considered before the "Glocks are so easy to work on" crowd starts messing with things.

--wally.

So lemme' see if I udderstand this correctly..................A 2 1/2 to 3 lb. trigger is okay to have on a custom tuned and tweeked 1911, but it's not okay on a Glock?:confused: :scrutiny:

Wouldn't the booger hook/bang switch philosophy apply to both?

Arethusa
December 26, 2005, 12:40 AM
No one (sane) carries a cocked and unlocked 1911. A Glock with a 3lb trigger pull is very nearly a single action pistol without a safety.

ChuckB
December 26, 2005, 04:59 PM
I have a 3.5# connector in my G19. The trigger pull measures a consistent 4.75#, and is crisp. The factory "5.5#" trigger often measures out at a fair amount heavier than marked. I like mine now, and feel comfortable, accurate, and safe with it.

Chuck

stevelyn
December 26, 2005, 09:26 PM
No one (sane) carries a cocked and unlocked 1911. A Glock with a 3lb trigger pull is very nearly a single action pistol without a safety.

Uhmmm...............3 passive safeties have to be overcome to fire a Glock no matter what trigger connector you have installed. First of which absolutely requires you having to wrap your booger hook around the trigger. In other words, if you don't want it to fire, exercise a bit of trigger discipline.:scrutiny:

Old Fuff
December 26, 2005, 10:30 PM
stevelyn:


In other words, if you don't want it to fire, exercise a bit of trigger discipline.

Oh you are absolutely right of course...

But ya' know, not everybody is a cool and collected as you guys are if someone is shooting at them... :scrutiny: :D

middy
December 27, 2005, 01:16 PM
So it's easy to become flustered and pull the trigger accidentally with a Glock, but nobody becomes flustered and forgets to click the safety off a 1911? Or takes the safety off right away and then has an even more likely ND with the 1911 trigger?

Old Fuff
December 27, 2005, 03:23 PM
If the 1911 style pistol has a 5 to 6 pound trigger pull (which is both Colt and USGI standard for service pistols) I'd say that it would be close to a stock Glock or heavier.

But at least one would have the option of using a safety that wasn't mounted on the trigger face.

If they had one of most models made by SIG, Beretta, S&W, H&K or Ruger they have both a manual safety (or decocker) and a first-shot trigger pull of around 8 pounds or more, (mostly more).

Of course one could have had the trigger pull reduced on any of these guns by switching out springs, polishing the lockwork, or whatever...

But that after all is much of what this discussion is about... :)

WarMachine
December 27, 2005, 08:15 PM
Oh my...

A loaded and chambered gun should fire when you pull the trigger. That's the trigger's duty, and the gun's job. If you don't want the gun to fire don't pull the trigger. Claiming any gun in unsafe due solely to poor trigger discipline is an invalid argument. Even if stress is added in the equation and an AD/ND occurs, it's not the fault of the gun unless it's malfunctioning.

I have never been in a sitution where I had my gun drawn and my life was in imminent danger, but if under stress I accidentally pulled the trigger and killed someone in an unjustified shooting, it would be 100% my fault and I would have to face the consequences.

A heavy trigger and safety are not the cure for someone who is unable to practice proper trigger discipline. Training is...

I'm not trying to sound like so armchair commando (as I know my thought processes would go to **** when my life was in danger like nearly everyone else). But I truly believe that if I was trained accordingly to handle such situations, I would have more faith in my own resolve.

Just my $.25 ;)

Old Fuff
December 27, 2005, 08:58 PM
War Machine:

Your points about training are well taken and received. But in the real world relatively few individuals receive the kind of training or practice that will carry them through an actual shooting experience, and this is not a good place to get on-the-job training.

Many of our own forum members practice far more then the average police officer, and are much more likely to be concerned about their skill-at-arms. Unfortunately we cannot view the overall picture and base our perspectives on what "our own" represent in the way of expertise. There is too great gap between what should be, and what is.

Some of you who have posted on this thread might be surprised to learn that I am acquainted with Gaston Glock, and have known him for many years. So many in fact that I was one of the first to recognize the merits of his pistol when others were denouncing it as a terrorist’s tool, that could be easily smuggled onto airplanes because of its plastic construction. I am well aware of both its strong and weak points, and the absolute necessity that users be motivated, intelligent, trained and practiced in its use.

I am equally aware that too many who are carry the Glock pistol do not meet the above description.

A heavier trigger pull is not a complete solution to problems concerning unintentional or negligent discharges cased by user ignorance or incompetence, and no mechanical modifications are likely to be so.

But it is a start, and an easily achievable one.

SparxSP
June 3, 2008, 07:43 PM
I know that this thread is ancient history, but Google brought me to it....what can I say?....
Old Fuff, if you're still hangin' out on the site, you are the wise one here. I am not saying that anyone else here is dumb by any means, I just think that the reality of the heat of the (real life shooting) moment is being highly underestimated by the others. I cannot read articles from those who have been there, sometimes repeatedly, that do not say that you're lucky if you can even remember how many shots you fired, much less at what point they actually put their finger on the trigger. I do not dismiss proper training at all, quite the contrary, but the reality is, there is much evidence & history to support the demand for DAO weapons by the military, and local, state, and federal law enforcement agencies alike.
I, for one, have begun shying away from traditional DA autos for daily carry. As for my Glocks, I have begun the transition on them all to the NY 8# spring, coupled with the 3.5 connector. I do not yet have a triger gauge with which to test them, but they feel noticeably heavier than stock, but with a vastly improved crisp "break".
Just my opinion, and absolutely no disrespect is intended toward anyone else herein.
Thanks for listening, Sparks

Old Fuff
June 3, 2008, 08:03 PM
The Old Fuff is still around, although some may view the word "hanging" in a different context. :D

But I still stand on what I said then. If one can master a 8 to 10 pound double action trigger pull on a revolver they can do the same on a pistol.

baryon
June 3, 2008, 08:45 PM
Ok. Let me add fuel(virtual since real gas is so high:eek:) to this thread:D Old Fuff, how does Gaston Glock carry a glock? I read somewhere that he carries it unchambered. Is it true?

RyanM
June 3, 2008, 09:05 PM
One thing stuck out at me.

One problem with the Glock pistol is that once you touch the trigger, additional pressure will cause it to go "bang!" This is both good and bad.

That's really not exactly true. A stock trigger gives you something like 3/8" of takeup, at about 3 pounds, then a 1/8", 6 pound break. A 3.5# connector makes it more like 5/16" takeup, same weight, and a 3/16", 4.5 pound break.

You'd have to be trying to stage the trigger to have any kind of "pull a little more and it fires" thing, and since the 3.5# connector increases the length of the break (simple physics, you don't get something for nothing without changing spring weights), there's probably not that much of a difference at all.

Someone who's dumb enough to try and keep their finger on the second stage, in a high stress situation, ranks right up there with someone who tries to keep a revolver hammer cocked back by holding the trigger almost all the way.

As a marksmanship technique, when you're already committed to firing, that's probably okay. But you shouldn't run around with your finger on a Glock's trigger, pulled to the break (or on the trigger at all) any more than you should run around with a revolver's trigger "staged."

shupack
March 15, 2009, 05:14 PM
To re-resurrect a twice-dead thread, I just did this on my 19. I'm not sure if I notice a difference when dry-firing, we'll see tomorrow at the range.

One addition (I emailed the page owner as well)

When re-assembling the firing-pin spring It is MUCH easier to use one of your punches in a vice as a support for the firing pin instead of toilet paper as suggested, the plastic sleeve simply slips over the punch and you can compress the spring against the stability of the vice. The spring can be held with one hand and the catches easily installed with the other.

Just my 25 cents.

JImbothefiveth
March 15, 2009, 05:24 PM
I thought glock's lightest was 4.5 pounds. And on a g35, the whole trigger pull felt lighter than a regular glock, so either it was the disconnector or they have some other lighter springs

RyanM
March 15, 2009, 06:06 PM
When re-assembling the firing-pin spring It is MUCH easier to use one of your punches in a vice as a support for the firing pin instead of toilet paper as suggested, the plastic sleeve simply slips over the punch and you can compress the spring against the stability of the vice. The spring can be held with one hand and the catches easily installed with the other.

I use the plate that slides over the back of the slide. It's the perfect thickness to prop up the pin if you're just standing the housing up on a table.

-----------

I thought glock's lightest was 4.5 pounds.

It's the disconnector. Precise pull weight depends on your trigger geometries (Glock has like 3 different suppliers, who make parts slightly different), but it's usually 3.5 to 4.5 pounds with the "light" connector.

nyresq
August 29, 2009, 02:21 AM
I saw this thread and as I just bought a G35 I figured I'd give it a try. from the factory the G35 has the 3.5# connector.
I went to the range and put 100 rounds down range to get a few break in rounds on the frame and slide.
With that done, I detail stripped the entire gun and cleaned everything up making sure to get all the copper grease off. Using some flitz polish I touched up the contact surfaces to a mirror shine. I lubed the gun and re assembled and I will say the trigger is noticeably smoother. same pull weight (on an RCBS pull scale it was 4.4# same as before) but much smoother pull and "feels" lighter.
I would not hesitate to carry this glock with this trigger for duty. The pull is still long and smooth with a pull weight of over 4#. I can be in total control with a trigger pull like that.

Evela
August 29, 2009, 02:28 PM
Dear friends...

None of this has anything to do with (a) what feels safe to you or (b) pull weights on other guns. After owning a G-34, I decided to work on my new G-26: the typical polish job, and tossed in a 3.5 lb connector: result a nice smooth pull of about 4.8 lbs. Actually my stock polished 34 is noticeably better (admittedly have a LOT more ammo having gone through it).

And for me, I just wanted BOTH my Glocks - the 34 and the 26 - to pull the same, for continuities sake. But after MUCH thought I'm gonna take the 26 back to stock (5 lb/5lb)) or maybe the much discussed NY#1/3.5. After a really good polish job I can get the NY#1/3.5 to about 7.6 lbs (middle), 5.7 lb tip). Although I've not tested the stock G-26, I have little doubt it's pushing 6 lb (middle) or bit more.

None of these pulls are outrageous. But the difference comes after you shoot someone: regardless of how justified, instead of explaining why you felt your life was in imminent danger, you'll be grilled for hours about how and why you decided to be an amateur gunsmith and lower your pull weight BELOW STOCK, and use a 3.5 connector that Glock DOESN'T RECOMMEND.

It's not about right or sensible, it's all about the prosecutor or civil attorney trying to eat your shorts. And they are very, very good at it. With any lightening mods you start out behind the eight ball, and got a lotta splainin to do.

Not a pretty place to be.

It is a sad case that you - the real victim - will be made the "hair-trigger", "gun modifying", vicious "hollow point" using gun nut who couldn't wait to off the BG, or whose tinkered gun went off when it shouldn't have.

You don't need that. What changed my mind?

You just have to read the tons of material about what really happens to you and even well intentioned LEO's in court. And many have gone to jail, lost huge civil actions or had to pay many, many extra thousands of dollars to hire an expert witness to overcome the BS case against you.

It's the way its. So please, don't make the mistake of being logical, and believing that this could not happen to you. Read some of the many good books about concealed carry and SD and realize what really happens after a good shooting...


***********

ps. another thought: the stock Glock, or even a NY#1/3.5 is not all that hard to shoot, esp. at short range. You may give up only a bit of accuracy for $100,000 or legal fees - and the BG will still be dead.

SparxSP
August 29, 2009, 02:46 PM
While I don't disagree entirely, I'd bet real money that there are tons of G34/35 "Tactical Practicals" out there in the hands of LEOs, with the stock 3.5 connectors, and an added NY1 spring. I have experimented a LOT, with most every conceiveable combination of options, and this is the one that I most often come back to. It is slightly heavier than "stock" config on all but the 17L/24/34/35s, but the break is vastly improved and, for my money and any potential future that I could have in front of a jury, feel that this combo lessens the chance of extra rounds fired while under the pressure of fighting for one's life. And, while there are certainly bulldog prosecutors out there as you describe, there are also gun owning & knowledgeable defense attorneys that could equally defend my choice of modified for safety sidearm.
Respectfully, Sparks

nyresq
August 29, 2009, 08:49 PM
The Shoot team for the DOJ (the lawyers who you speak to when you fire your weapon in the line of duty) have a saying they use every time we have legal training...

YOU can make a good shoot turn bad by doing or saying the wrong thing after its over, but a bad shoot will always be bad no matter what you did before during or after...

So whatever the trigger pull is, or who made it that way, if you were within the scope of the law to have fired, then you are legal... If you shouldn't have fired anyway, then it doesnt matter what you were firing. cause whether it was a cannon with a 6' fuse or it was a IPSC open class race gun, your still going to be tried for murder...

And as to the civil case, no matter what you are going to be sued. even if the bad guy had a functional machine gun and fired 50 rounds at you first and its all on video, the family is going to sue.

Use what you can shoot well so you dont miss, train to follow the rule about the booger hook on the bang switch and know the law. Thats the best defense on how to stay out of court, civilian or LEO, follow those three things and always think about them.

SparxSP
August 29, 2009, 09:29 PM
Well said.....

Dr_2_B
August 29, 2009, 09:51 PM
And as to the civil case, no matter what you are going to be sued

I hadn't considered it to be a 100% likelihood, but I don't doubt what you're saying. It's very disconcerting though.

SparxSP
August 29, 2009, 11:30 PM
These days, I DO consider it near 100% likelihood; Sad, but true....

Evela
August 30, 2009, 10:43 AM
Sad indeed. I like my 3.5 connector, but not enough to make it, and not the situation, the focus of any lawsuit...

InfidelSnype
June 26, 2011, 09:47 PM
The bottom line that, so far, everyone here has missed: a gun is an inanimate object. No gun, no matter how light the trigger pull, can go off without the trigger being pulled. There is no such thing as an unsafe gun, only an unsafe shooter!

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