Never had a gun related accident/incident


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Mr_Moore
December 16, 2005, 02:00 PM
I keep hearing the anti-gun crowd saying that guns in the home are dangerous.

My grand parents on my father's side were farmers and they passed down gun usage as a tradition. Everyone in my family owns guns.

As a kid, I thought nothing about the fact that we had a .222, a shotgun and a 30-06 in dad's closet - no gun safe, just a closet.

All of us kids were given safety lectures on guns.

I have dozens of cousins, grand children, children, nieces and nephews and there has never been one firearms related incident/accident in our entire family. And that goes back about a century (Thats 100 years to the anti gun guys :) and includes about 75 people.

I have friends who own guns and the same is true of them. No incidents of someone getting mad and picking up a gun (the anti-gun arguement: "If there are guns around people will use them when they are mad") nor any incidents of accidents. Of course no one in the family has ever picked up a knife or brick in anger either.

What are your experiences?

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Gordon Fink
December 16, 2005, 02:04 PM
Fatal firearms accidents are statistically insignificant. They currently number a little over 1,000 per year but have been steadily decreasing for decades.

~G. Fink

Mr_Moore
December 16, 2005, 02:12 PM
Fatal firearms accidents are statistically insignificant. They currently number a little over 1,000 per year but have been steadily decreasing for decades.

~G. Fink

I know for a fact that auto accidents are much higher than that.

migoi
December 16, 2005, 02:16 PM
who would pick up a firearm to settle a family argument would just as readily pick up some other instrument of lethal force (or as in recent cases here and elsewhere, use their bare hands to kill the other family member).

The same goes for my family. Although I can't document the non-accident history as extensively as Mr. Moore (though I can't remember any family stories of any gun related injuries in our family), I can verify that my father raised 10 kids in a household with multiple rifles, shotguns, and handguns with zero injuries or incidences of family members using a firearm during arguments (and boy do some of my relative love to have loud and dramatic relationships).

Cars on the other hand...at times I think major portions of my family should be forced to transport themselves only with non-motorized means.

migoi

benEzra
December 16, 2005, 02:42 PM
I don't know ANYONE personally who has ever been injured in a firearm-related accident of any sort.

I have already lost one college roommate to a motorcycle accident, and a high school friend and classmate to a drunk driver. My wife and infant son were in a head-on collision with a minivan in 2000 (the other driver was at fault, my wife and son were bruised up but otherwise OK), and I've had a MAJOR rear-end collision occur right behind me just as I turned off the road (a woman in the car behind me was hospitalized, but I don't know the extent of her injuries). And two of my father's friends and coworkers were decapitated by a car that crossed the median of U.S. 70 in eastern NC, went airborne, and crashed through their windshield.

My dad also had a "save" with a firearm in the early '70's, when I was a child; he never had to draw the gun, and the thugs left him alone when they saw he was armed.

So anecdotally, my personal experiences are heavily in favor of firearms compared to motor vehicles.

On the negative side, I do have one friend and former shooting buddy who committed suicide after his marriage failed, and he may or may not have used a firearm to do so (I didn't ask what means he used, and he was intelligent enough to make any means he chose work, so I don't think lack of gun access would've made a difference).

Mr_Moore
December 16, 2005, 02:54 PM
who would pick up a firearm to settle a family argument would just as readily pick up some other instrument of lethal force (or as in recent cases here and elsewhere, use there bare hands to kill the other family member).

The same goes for my family. Although I can't document the non-accident history as extensively as Mr. Moore (though I can't remember any family stories of any gun related injuries in our family), I can verify that my father raised 10 kids in a household with multiple rifles, shotguns, and handguns with zero injuries or incidences of family members using a firearm during arguments (and boy do some of my relative love to have loud and dramatic relationships).

Cars on the other hand...at times I think major portions of my family should be forced to transport themselves only with non-motorized means.

migoi

Yes, I agree, even if someone did use a gun, they would have used something else. We, too have had LOUD disagreements.

The only reason I know so much about the family history is that my cousin did a family tree and during that found out how everyone had died - almost all of natural causes. We have the distinction of the first person ever killed by a train in this area of PA (at an intersection, his horses reared up when they heard the train and he was killed - the family sued the RR for it and lost) being one of our relatives, but no fatal firearms incidents.

geekWithA.45
December 16, 2005, 02:59 PM
I'll use my hometown as an example:


Location: Rural CT
Some #s:

Cows: 20,000
Firearms: 10,000
Humans: 5,000
Gunfire in the woods: year round

Firearms accidents: ZERO
Kids Killed/Injured with firearms: ZERO
Police: ZERO
Violent Crime: ZERO
Petty Crime: massively rare.

Got the picture?

Atticus
December 16, 2005, 02:59 PM
Here are some interesting comparisons.

Source: http://www.usa.safekids.org/index.cfm

"In 2002, nearly 800 children ages 14 and under were treated in hospital emergency rooms for unintentional firearm-related injuries. In 2001, 72 children died from those injuries."

In 2002 more than 1.2 million such poisonings among children ages 5 and under were reported to U.S. poison control centers. In 2001, 96 children ages 14 and under died from poisoning incidents. Although household cleaners are a frequent cause of poisoning, kids can also be fatally poisoned by iron, alcohol and carbon monoxide.

In 2001, 134 children ages 14 and under died in bicycle-related crashes and in 2002, more nearly 288,900 were treated in hospital emergency rooms for bicycle-related injuries.

In 2002, at least 13 children ages 14 and under died from toy-related injuries. The same year, an estimated 165,200 children ages 14 and under were treated in hospital emergency rooms for toy-related injuries.

In 2002, more than 43,300 children ages 14 and under were treated in hospital emergency rooms for pedestrian-related injuries. Despite recent declines, pedestrian injury remains the second leading cause of unintentional injury-related death among children ages 5 to 14.

In 2001, 493 children ages 14 and under died, and nearly 40,000 are injured each year, in fires. Despite a dramatic 56 percent decline in the fire death rate since the Safe Kids began in 1988, fires remain a leading cause of unintentional injury-related death among children in the United States.

Edited to add motor vehicle stats-
Each year approximately 1,800 children ages 14 and under are killed as occupants in motor vehicles, and more than 280,000 are injured.

Mr_Moore
December 16, 2005, 03:27 PM
Anyone who has carried a pistol much and has never had an ND has never shot much at speed, or is a liar. I know quite a few guys who are quite skilled-careful about gunhandling., and every last one of them has had at least one ND. With rarely handled longarms, the odds are of course much higher against such mishaps. Many a time, however, it is pure luck when an ND doesn't hurt somebody.

First, I have never had an ND.

Second what is "has never shot much at speed"

Third, so what is your point?

Richardson
December 16, 2005, 03:29 PM
I keep hearing the anti-gun crowd saying that guns in the home are dangerous.
...
What are your experiences?

We had between 6-10 longarms in the house as I was growing up, divided between my dad and 5 brothers. The girls never shot or handled the firearms - it just wasn't their thing. The boys kept them stored in our closets, unlocked, with the ammunition close to the firearm. The only AD in our house was from a sister with severe psychological problems (she had her finger on the trigger as she loaded a shell - I still don't know what she was thinking). The noise scared her enough to put everything back and never touch another gun (mom had me fix things up so dad wouldn't know - this wasn't right, but that's another story).

At 16 I had an AD as I took the safety off a rifle as I got ready to unload it after hunting. My gloved hand must have been pushing against the trigger and it discharged when the safety was turned off.

The only safety training I got was (1) the fear of my father's anger, and (2) my brother's threat to pound me into the ground if I ever again crossed his body with a muzzle. Today I'm much more strict than I was taught. Even so, 8 kids, one of them psychologically unstable, and a house with over half the bedrooms having unlocked guns-n-ammo, and nobody ever got hurt. Apart from hunting accidents and one or two suicides, nobody in my town suffered from accidental shootings (about half the male population hunted).

To me the danger of a gun in the house is way over-hyped. I can't think of anyone I've personally met who's been shot.

Mr_Moore
December 16, 2005, 03:47 PM
of practice at such, at multiple hits at high speed, the necessary many thousands of "dry" draws, etc. .


Ah, now I understand what you meant about "shooting at speed". I have never had an AD or ND doing that either.

strambo
December 16, 2005, 04:42 PM
Umm, I've never had an ND and all I practice is combat (at speed) shooting with pistols. Dropped my pistol once...that was embarassing:o . That doesn't mean I cannot have one though. The 2 underlying causes of gun accidents are ingnorance and carelessness. Since most gun owners aren't ignorant of gun safety, then the primary cause is carelessness.

I also disaggree that if someone isn't hurt in an ND it is "luck." The only way someone can get hurt is if the weapon is pointed in an unsafe direction. You shouldn't point a weapon in an unsafe direction AT ANY TIME including in combat. If you have an ND due to carelessness, it still should go into a safe backstop as opposed to into flesh. I don't dry fire out windows or at my leg.:uhoh:

mbs357
December 16, 2005, 04:44 PM
The worst accident I've ever had with any kind of firearm never goes beyond getting my finger pinched by the bolt/slide.
I've never had an ND or a AD, no one I've known has ever had one.
(Minus that shotgun my uncle had that would go off at random...never understood why he used it.)

Harry Stone
December 16, 2005, 05:38 PM
I've owned guns since before I could ride the good rides at the fair and never had any negligent discharge problems. I've known two different people who have. One kid in my neighborhood shot himself playing with a loaded 12 guage and died when I was about 12. An old roommate of mine shot himself in the femoral artery with a 1911 and came very close to dying. Technically he did die, his heart stopped for a short period of time when he almost completely bled out. Firearms are extremely dangerous to people who are too ignorant or too stupid to handle them. No law or safety device will ever change that.

Working Man
December 16, 2005, 05:48 PM
In 25 years of shooting I have never had a ND or AD. I think the least
amount of shots thrown down range on any given target day in the last
10 years is around 400.

I also keep all my revolvers loaded, locked up but loaded.

Keep the rules and they'll keep you safe.

MadMercS55
December 16, 2005, 05:50 PM
I've been around firearms since I was very young and have never had any problems with AD's, ND's, etc. A close friend of mine here did have a mechanical failure resulting in a weapon discharging into a wall. He chambered a PA-63 pistol and when he decocked it, it fired. The weapon was pointed in a safe direction and the bullet hit a wood wall causing little damage. Made me think twice about decockers for a long while!

cmidkiff
December 16, 2005, 06:13 PM
I don't believe in AD's, if it goes off and you didn't expect it, it's an ND. First time I hear of a gun going off without someone doing something they shouldn't have been doing, I'll review my opinion.

My sister shot the ground 3' in front of her while I was showing her how to load a single action .22 revolver, gun was pointed down range, but it could have been ugly.

An old friend managed to shoot a hole in his roof while fondling his new .50AE Desert Eagle. Man, was his wife pissed!

Guy I've met from the MissouriCarry boards managed to put a round through his palm while cleaning a Glock. I'll never understand why you would design a gun so that you have to pull the trigger to break it down. Still, the guy had to break more than one safe handling rule to manage it.

ND's do happen, 'the rules' are there for a reason.

Mr_Moore
December 16, 2005, 06:37 PM
ND's do happen, 'the rules' are there for a reason.

I agree. Even though I have never had an ND/AD I count it as 1 part luck and 99 parts being damned afraid of the consequenses and therefore being very careful.

I do such things as: unload my gun and check it to see if it is empy. Then before I dry fire it, I check it. Of course when I dry fire it, I aim it where it is safe to do so. I follow the rules.

I guess the luck comes in in that I have never had a mechanical failure. And come to think of it, I guess that I am lucky that my mind becomes very focused in the presense of a fire arm.

Safety is no joke and we should all be aware of it at all times.

bigun15
December 16, 2005, 06:41 PM
They currently number a little over 1,000 per year but have been steadily decreasing for decades.

Isn't it strange that the population and firearm number goes up, but the number or accidents goes down?

Gordon Fink
December 16, 2005, 07:10 PM
I know for a fact that auto accidents are much higher than that.

Automobile fatalities are higher than firearm homicides and suicides combined.

Gun Facts (http://www.gunfacts.info) is a great source for these kinds of statistics.

~G. Fink

Janitor
December 16, 2005, 07:27 PM
Two incidents in my life.

One was mine, and it was an ND. It was several years ago. In fact - it was before Oleg was involved with RKBA, and he was standing about a foot from me when it happened. I was about to loan/show him my 20 guage Winnie pump, and went to check it for clear - now get this part -
---
in my front room!!!! Gosh all mighty Pooh! What in the he!! was I thinking?

I wasn't. That is very painfully clear to me. And Oleg. (and ddb who was standing the other side of Oleg) The only bright side is that if you only break one of the rules, generally nobody will get hurt. And nobody did. I'm not sure what I did that set it off, but I'm assuming I hit the trigger. Gun checks out fine. I had loaned it out, it came back loaded and I never checked it. Very much my bad.

Of course ... I heard about that hole in the ceiling for a long time afterwards. Not only did I do one of the stupidest things I've ever done in my life, but I had to do it with witnesses! What a loser.

This was 100% my fault, and the gun would have happily continued to not go off by itself had I not intervened. This was not a gun related incident - it was an idiot related incident.

Ok ... now you all know it. I'm not worthy. I'll leave all you good people alone in just a couple minutes.
======================================================

But first, the 2nd bad news gun incident in my life, which was much, much (much) worse. Hard to write about, so I'll be very brief -

A friend from work went home one evening, took her husbands .357 revo and shot herself in the head. Very much on purpose.

Again though - IMO this was not really a gun related incident. If it weren't a gun, she for sure would have found a different way. She was very sad, and unknown to us, very disturbed.
-

Standing Wolf
December 16, 2005, 09:49 PM
I've never owned a gun that couldn't be trusted. I've known people who couldn't be trusted, but not a single gun.

MountainPeak
December 16, 2005, 09:55 PM
My cousins husband had a incident that could have been dangerous. He dropped a firearm that "WENT OFF". Pierre still has his hands up.

Working Man
December 17, 2005, 07:47 AM
Two incidents in my life.

One was mine, and it was an ND. It was several years ago. In fact - it was before Oleg was involved with RKBA, and he was standing about a foot from me when it happened. I was about to loan/show him my 20 guage Winnie pump, and went to check it for clear - now get this part -
---
in my front room!!!! Gosh all mighty Pooh! What in the he!! was I thinking?

I wasn't. That is very painfully clear to me. And Oleg. (and ddb who was standing the other side of Oleg) The only bright side is that if you only break one of the rules, generally nobody will get hurt. And nobody did. I'm not sure what I did that set it off, but I'm assuming I hit the trigger. Gun checks out fine. I had loaned it out, it came back loaded and I never checked it. Very much my bad.

Of course ... I heard about that hole in the ceiling for a long time afterwards. Not only did I do one of the stupidest things I've ever done in my life, but I had to do it with witnesses! What a loser.

This was 100% my fault, and the gun would have happily continued to not go off by itself had I not intervened. This was not a gun related incident - it was an idiot related incident.

Ok ... now you all know it. I'm not worthy. I'll leave all you good people alone in just a couple minutes.

On the plus side, I bet that was the last time a gun went unchecked .....
.... at least a hurt pride doesn't bleed.

Janitor
December 17, 2005, 08:43 AM
On the plus side, I bet that was the last time a gun went unchecked .....
.... at least a hurt pride doesn't bleed.
You'd win your bet. People that are paying enough attention to notice sometimes giggle at how anal I am about what's in the chamber. :cool:
-

scout26
December 17, 2005, 11:33 AM
Let's see:

9 brother/sisters and their spouses/kids, 35+ cousins (all married except for one who is currently divorced), just about everybody in mine and Mrs Scout's families owns guns/hunts and going back through both family's histories (and some of the extensions) can't find one person killed by a gun, even the four grandfathers, three dads (her mom remarried after her divorce), five uncles, four brothers who are all combat vets.

Mostly oldage/natural causes, with a couple of vehicle accidents. Very few untimely deaths.

KC&97TA
December 17, 2005, 12:59 PM
The only ND's I've experinced have been in a combat zone or on a range, they've all been in the Corps too, no incidents of any family or friends ever haveing a ND. There's something about teaching non-combat arms MOS's to shoot that just scares me and there's always that one on every training detail.

I think the best way to teach a child how dangerous a firearm is, is to do what my old man did to teach my brother and I at a young age; took us out when the Beef Cows were ready to be butchered and pointed his 44 mag at the cows head and we watched a 1800lb animal drop to the deck at the pull of a trigger. :D

Rule #1 every gun is loaded.

Nick_90
December 17, 2005, 01:17 PM
I have also never known anyone who has been involved in an firearm accident or incident although firearms are very common over here in Switzerland.
The only incident I have heard of happened in London (GB) around 1910. My grandmother's elder sister who was very pretty and knew it drove a young man so nuts he turned up one day at my great grandparents' groceries shop with a loaded revolver and threatened to shoot himself! Luckily my great grandfather talked him out of doing so...

grizz5675
December 17, 2005, 01:45 PM
I think being safe with guns has to start with educating kids not to touch them period.Some people dont want their kids to even see a gun and thats the wrong way about it.They have to know what a real gun looks like and what it can do and to stay the hell away from them.I or any of my family have not had an accident to this day but a freind of mine while in the military cleaned his 45acp ,when he was done he inspected it and tossed it on the table and was about to sat there im done and it went off and shot his wife in the chest,she survived but he was a basket case anyway it just go's to say you can never be to careful.

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