[David]

Let's see:

1 -- We are at war with Iraq.

2 -- We are at war against terrorism.

3 -- We are at Terror Threat Level Orange -- High.

4 -- We have a Homeland Security Department that tells us to be "prepared" for attacks of all types -- including bio, chemical and nuclear.

4 -- Our borders are as wide open as ever.

Is there anything wrong with the above?

Don't believe me?

Well, do you know FOR SURE who, and what, was in these vehicles that just busted our border check points, and were NEVER seen again?

http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=31888

:uhoh: :what: :rolleyes:

It seems to me that the FIRST job of the federal government is to protect its citizens from outside invaders.

To do this we MUST have secure borders.

Am I wrong?

Just my 2 cents...

[Justin]

An overview of the Posse Comitatus Act (http://www.rand.org/publications/MR/MR1251/MR1251.AppD.pdf)

Troops on the border is not only illegal, it would prove to be a waste of their time and my money.

[hondo68]

The Posse Comitatus Act doesn't apply to the borders or illegal invasions. Regardless the gov won't do anything, other than busting those trying to protect our borders. It's up to the people, aka the Militia.

Border patrol agents are being killed, and politicians are only concerned that they might lose votes if they do something about it. http://www.azstarnet.com/border/30213ILLEGALENTRANTSHOT.html

[David]

I would be against using the military for internal "law enforcement" functions...that is the job of civilian police agencies.

However, I think it is the job of the military to protect our country from illegal invaders!

If protecting our country's borders from illegal invaders is not the PRIME job of our military, what is?

:banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

Our military is used to help protect the borders of our allies across the globe (i.e. South Korea, etc.).

If they can be used to safeguard people outside our country, why can't they be used to help safeguard our country's borders and US citizens?

Remember, folks, we are currently AT WAR.

Millions of radicals worldwide hate our guts!

People from outside our borders HAVE (i.e. 9/11/01), and STILL ARE, trying to kill us!

Securing our borders is not a political issue...it is a SECURITY issue!

:cuss: :cuss: :cuss:

P.S. Please read this amazing story about an brutal attack on 2 FBI agents that took place almost a year to the day after 9/11/01:

http://www.caller.com/ccct/state_texas_news/article/0,1641,CCCT_876_1416810,00.html

Do you really believe we can have even BASIC homeland security if we cannot properly secure our borders?

Just my 2 cents...

[TarpleyG]

You know... They COULD install tiger teeth on those southbound lanes so that anyone driving that direction promptly gets 4 flat tires...

Oh, wait. I forgot. That makes sense, therefore the guvmint wouldn't do it. Plus we'd have to endure the lawsuits from all the *********s that back up over them for whatever reason.

Oh well, just a thought.

GT

[ahenry]

:rolleyes:

Here we go again. :rolleyes:

[Ian]

Do you really think it's possibly to "seal" several thousand miles of borders? The Nazis couldn't seal the Jewish ghettos. The Russians couldn't seal their borders. The East Germans couldn't even seal off half of Berlin with a huge, patrolled wall. Do you have any idea what kind of gargantuan, despotic boondoggle would be the result of seriously attempting to seal even just our border with Mexico? It would make the Great Wall of China (another failed attempt at a closed border, BTW) look amateur.

And no, we can't have any half-way secure country without sealed borders. The whole Homeland Security department is a farce, as has been pointed out. They're great at groping women in airports, but they don't have a prayer of stopping an able, intelligent, and determined terrorist. We simply cannot obtain security through use of government force. This should be fairly obvious.

[Standing Wolf]

<sarcasm> We have borders> </sarcasm>

[AZTOY]

The very sad part, is i have a freind that is 16 and he is scared to go to is grandfathers Ranch with out a gun. The Ranch is 2 mile from Mexio.

That right a 16 year old boy can see the problem with the border but the goverment can't:banghead: :rolleyes:

[Kristofer]

Sure let the military protect the borders. Just remember how government works. Soon the threat will dimish and they'll need a reason the justify thier funding. So we'll let them start guarding the California border, don't want the illegals get out of the state. And Texas and Arizona, and New Mexico. Then they can start patrolling interstate borders to catch the illegals that got out of the international border states, just in case of course. But how will they know who should and shouldn't be there? Lets have national ID cards, that way we can prove to our own military we're citizens if we want to go from state to state. Be careful what you wish for, you just might get it. :(

[UnknownSailor]

Military on the border? Ummmm... no.

How's about giving what the "street level" Border Patrol agents have been screaming for, and that is about 20,000+ more bodies to work with. Un-politify the rules under which they operate. Get rid of the dead weight at the management level.

[ahadams]

unknown sailor has got it about right. My brother, when he's not busy being a jarh...er a Marine (sorry, it's the Army genetics thing, you know?) works for INS. He has some footage they took oh ten years or so ago now for testimony before some congressional committee or another. Anyway in order to make a point they put every single vehicle and who wasn't working a checkpoint out in the desert to make busts one night. as far as you can see there are little islands of red and blue flashing lights which are INS patrol vehicles stopped making busts; and if you watch closely, in between the vehicles you can see the shadows of other illegal aliens running around the busts and proceeding north.

The thing I don't understand is, short of shooting 20 or 30 thousand of them, how do you put a stop to this sort of thing? and if they did kill that many who would be willing to take the heat for it? not any politician I can think of!

[David]

Just because doing something is a challenge, do we say, "why even try?"

If you apply some of the logic expressed in this thread you would think the following:

1 -- Why install air bags and seat belts in cars, they can't protect drivers' from EVERY type of accident?

2 -- Why have firefighters, they can't save EVERY life?

3 -- Why have police officers, they can't stop EVERY crime?

4 -- Why try to secure our borders, we can't stop EVERY illegal invader?

I think we should at least consider using our military as a "stop gap" measure until we can add and train at least 25,000 Border Patrol Agents to our borders.

Folks, we must do something.

We can't just place our "heads in the sand" and pretend it will all go away.

We must face the the reality that we are being invaded each and every minute, and we must do something to secure our borders as much as possible.

Remember, border control is not a POLITICAL issue, it is a SECURITY issue!

:rolleyes: :what: :uhoh:

Am I wrong?

Just my 2 cents...

[Justin Moore]

Folks, we must do something.

Isn't that new proposed National ID card, Total Information Awareness, and the Patriot Act enough to keep us safe? ;) [/sarcasm]

Anyway, your right we MUST do something. But sadly, I don't think it will happen for purely political reasons on both sides of the aisle. Congress is content to give you secret, warantless searches under the PATRIOT Act, but will do NOTHING to prevent incursions across the border. Something on the order of one MILLION people since 911. Wrap your brain around that one.

If the military is useless, as some here have contended, and protecting our borders, why do we have troops protecting the borders in AStan?

[ahenry]

Am I wrong?
Absolutely

[Double Naught Spy]

As much as I despise the World Net Daily for their bizarre and often highly biased reporting, they may have a point.

I have been completely dumbfounded by the number of folks that I have encountered who feel the US Military's job is to fight in other countries and to protect other countries under the somewhat silly concept that foreign battles protect us at home. Granted, nobody wants to fight a battle here in the US if we don't have to do so, bug given our border situation (as noted), I am surprised the need hasn't arisen yet. It has not been due to our strong military presense at home.

I think this point was made clear after 9/11. It took something like 45 minutes before the first US Military aircraft was on scene at the WTC and it was not fully loaded with weapons. In other words, even though we knew hijackers had taken over planes, there was nothing that was going to stop them in time from our military. As one analyst noted, the US is more closely watched via radar and satellites than any other region of comparable size and those watchful eyes are just that, watchful. They can physically do nothing. At any one time prior to 9/11, an aircraft carrier and battle group at sea had more aircraft in the air providing security and a fighter cap to protect the group than the US had protecting it. Prior to 9/11, the US did not patrol the air using armed fighter aircraft with any sort of regularity or thoroughness.

If the military isn't supposed to be protecting our own country, then why do we have a military?

[cuchulainn]

How many troops does it take to secure a one-mile line?

[Don Gwinn]

How many troops does it take to secure a one-mile line?

I don't know. How badly are they outnumbered? Are they allowed to shoot on sight? Are they allowed to use grenades? Can they call air strikes and artillery?

If you're talking about facing hundreds or thousands of people and attempting to make arrests, I suppose three lines of troops a yard or less apart would work, assuming you had others to remove prisoners and fill gaps. That works out to around 5300-5400. Per mile.

Of course, maybe I'm crazy and Marines make good police. Or maybe you're willing to shoot illegal aliens on sight.

[cuchulainn]

Exactly, Don.

[AZTOY]

I don't know. How badly are they outnumbered? Are they allowed to shoot on sight? Are they allowed to use grenades? Can they call air strikes and artillery?

Well the illegal drug runners and coyots , that are guarded by MEXIO"S ARMY have fullauto AK-47 , M-16 and HK to name a few.

So if the army was on the border, i would give them the "POWER" to do there job. :D


Don i agree, air strikes and artillery would be a over kill. :uhoh: :uhoh:

[Art Eatman]

The only way to stop illegal entry is to remove the attraction that brings them here. A corallary is that there must be some form of "net loss" in making that effort.

There seem to be no teeth in laws pertaining to the hiring of illegals. Until that is changed, poor people will continue to come here for the various jobs available to them. Further, nobody who is here illegally should be eligible for any form of public assistance beyond emergency-type medical services. (Basic humanity sez to set a guy's broken leg before expelling him, whether or not he can pay.)

IMO, serious changes need to be made in how we handle those who claim politcal asylum, or how we keep track of those who enter on time- or purpose-limited visas. There is too much abuse of the existing system.

The only way I know of to end or dramatically reduce the importation of drugs, via "mules" of whatever sort, is to remove the profit in drug sales here. The only way I know of to do that is to remove the criminal penalties for possession and personal use. The absence of penalties means the end of the present form of free-market pricing, in its black-market format.

Art

[Ian]

Hear hear, Art.

[Soap]

Ideally, all borders should be open and the free market will take care. But in reality, this is obviously not possible at all since I (and probably most of this board) don't want a bunch of people enjoying benefits without having to pay taxes.

Art pretty much outlined the practical solutions.