[Mark Tyson]

AR-15 seems to be a broad category of semi-auto weapons in the .223 caliber which resemble the army's M-16. However, none of them are actually labelled AR-15. I have seen Colt HBARs, Bushmaster XM-15, Rock River LAR-15, etc. The only time I ever saw a gun labelled AR-15 was in the army, and it was the very first M-16A2 I was issued. Will someone please clear this up for me?

[Hkmp5sd]

The original Armalite AR-15 was the rifle designed by Eugene Stoner. The government bought a group of these rifles that were also still designated AR-15. The first actual contract purchase with Colt was for the Colt M16A1. The Colt AR-15 was also the designation given their semiautomatic civilian versions. Over the years, all semiautomatic AR variations have become known as "AR-15"s.


Here is a useful chart of all models/variations of the semiauto Colt AR-15 and the fullauto Colt AR/M16 rifles.

Colt AR/M16 Variations. (http://www.biggerhammer.net/ar15/variants/)

[Double Naught Spy]

Hkmp5sd is right with the information.

Mark, you are too funny, but you bring up an interesting point of perspectives. You describe the AR-15s as a broad group of guns resembling the M-16 of the military. While you are correct in that they resemble one another, your sampling is a little backwards from reality as the AR-15 was adopted by the military and then renamed.

FYI, 1911s are the same way. There are a lot of 1911s that don't have "1911" written on them either.

[Triad]

I've heard that it would be a violation of one of the gun control laws for the makers to mark their rifles "AR-15".

[Hkmp5sd]

The '94 assault weapon ban classified the "Colt AR-15" as an assault weapon by name. So theoretically, any firearm stamped "Colt AR-15" is automatically an assault weapon, regardless of the number of evil features. However, since ATF decided that firearms not in a "preban configuration" were not preban assault rifles, receivers that had the "Colt AR-15" logo but not assembled into rifles, were not assault weapons.

[chink]

Hkmp5sd has it right. But I think it was California's 1989 ban that he is talking about and no the 1994 crime bill. I know that the 1989 ban bans specific weapons and so a lot of guns got new names. at the time
chink

[ajacobs]

It is the 94 crime bill and since colt owns the trademark to the name ar-15 you will not see any other manufactures calling them that. Bushmasters are currently the closest I believe to millitary spec. They use the correct finish and have crome lined barrels although new versions do lack the evil features hopefully only until sept 2004.

[PsyWarrior]

Bushmaster uses the XM15-E2S designation on theirs. But one must also remember that the "original" M16's included many sub contractors and quite a few were only "assembled" by colt. I remember seeing mattell handgaurds and recievers on some in my unit. The same applies to the AK's with some made in russia, some in china etc...

What is most important to remember, is that we know what an AR15 is and the stupid liberals have no idea. Therefor, we can still have nice rifles and work around their BS.:evil:

[Badger Arms]

Colt owns the rights to the "AR-15" name as a trademark. Nobody but Colt is able to make rifles called that. Colt DID produce AR-15 rifles. I qualified with one in the Air Force. Mine was three-position Auto-rifle without the forward assist. Triangle fore-end, windage-only rear sight, smooth chrome-plated bolt carrier, milled firing pin retainer, birdcage suppressor.I've heard that it would be a violation of one of the gun control laws for the makers to mark their rifles "AR-15".WRONG: Colt still owns the rights and simply chooses not to use it.The '94 assault weapon ban classified the "Colt AR-15" as an assault weapon by name. So theoretically, any firearm stamped "Colt AR-15" is automatically an assault weapon...ALSO WRONG: An assult rifle is not defined by a name. The name was simply a convenient way of explaining what model the bastards wanted to ban. Manufacturers tend to rename weapons that are different to prevent confusion.

Note that the "Original" M-16s were designated AR-15's. It's that simple. They were subsequently labeled the XM-16, XM-16E1, M-16 (the Air Force version relabeled from AR-15) and then the M-16A1, A2, A3, and A4 in succession. The only TRUE AR-15's are Air Force guns. HA! Of course, I could be wrong. I'm taking this all from memory. ;)

[BusMaster007]

Hey, guys:

I'm talking to my Mom on the phone and I told her about the thread I'm reading here.

She wants to know what "AR" stands for.
Can someone tell me so I can tell her?

I think it's Armalite Rifle. What's the right answer?

[Nero Steptoe]

"WRONG: Colt still owns the rights and simply chooses not to use it."


WRONG: "Colt AR-15" was specifically named in the ban legislation. The fact that Colt still owns the "AR-15" trademark is irrelevant to this discussion.

[gun-fucious]

if AR stands for Armalite Rifle
whats an AR-17?

http://www.armalite.com/library/faq/faq_list.htm

There is a common misconception that AR stands for "ArmaLite Rifle." _ This is untrue._ The AR-17, for instance, is a 12-gauge shotgun._ Early designations like ArmaLite 10 were shortened to simply AR-10._ The AR refers to ArmaLite.

The ArmaLite Division of Fairchild developed the AR-15 in 1959._ Fairchild licensed the rifle to the Colt's Patent Firearm Manufacturing Corporation, and Colt's assumed the AR-15 trademark._ Early Colt rifles were marked "Colt ArmaLite 15."_ Even today, the designation to that Colt brand rifle refers, somewhat embarrassingly, to ArmaLite.

[BusMaster007]

Mom says, "Thanks." ;)

[Hkmp5sd]

ALSO WRONG: An assult rifle is not defined by a name. The name was simply a convenient way of explaining what model the bastards wanted to ban. Manufacturers tend to rename weapons that are different to prevent confusion.


(30) The term "semiautomatic assault weapon" means -
(A) any of the firearms, or copies or duplicates of the firearms in any caliber, known as -
(i) Norinco, Mitchell, and Poly Technologies Avtomat Kalashnikovs (all models);
(ii) Action Arms Israeli Military Industries UZI and Galil;
(iii) Beretta Ar70 (SC-70);
(iv) Colt AR-15;
(v) Fabrique National FN/FAL, FN/LAR, and FNC;
(vi) SWD M-10, M-11, M-11/9, and M-12;
(vii) Steyr AUG;
(viii) INTRATEC TEC-9, TEC-DC9 and TEC-22; and
(ix) revolving cylinder shotguns, such as (or similar to) the Street Sweeper and Striker 12;
(B) a semiautomatic rifle that has an ability to accept a detachable magazine and has at least 2 of -(
i) a folding or telescoping stock;
(ii) a pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon;
(iii) a bayonet mount;
(iv) a flash suppressor or threaded barrel designed to accommodate a flash suppressor; and
(v) a grenade launcher;

[beckrodgers]

wow, what a load of Buffoloe Chips we put up with. A rifle is a rifle is a rifle? Those bat farts & guvmunt really crowding me.

[Badger Arms]

So, by the definition of the law, if I write "AR-15" on the side of a muzzle-loader it's Banned? Bullcrap. I stand by my statement.
The ArmaLite Division of Fairchild developed the AR-15 in 1959._ Fairchild licensed the rifle to the Colt's Patent Firearm Manufacturing Corporation, and Colt's assumed the AR-15 trademark._ Early Colt rifles were marked "Colt ArmaLite 15." Even today, the designation to that Colt brand rifle refers, somewhat embarrassingly, to ArmaLite.Perhaps the Colt rifles, but the Armalite guns are different. I'm looking right now at a photo of the 000002 and 000003 rifles. The 000001 rifle was destroyed in testing. They are marked with the flying horsey in the cross-hairs logo with an:

ARMALITE
AR-15
HOLLYWOOD, CALIF, U.S.A.
PATENTS PENDING

Every picture I have of the early AR-10 is marked similarly with different variations but most notably, they are marked "AR10" rather than with a dash. I see no rifle marked Armalite 10.
I'm talking to my Mom on the phone and I told her about the thread I'm reading here. She wants to know what "AR" stands for. Can someone tell me so I can tell her?No, it's not "Armalite Rifle" but rather just a shortened version of the trade name "Armalite." As evidence, note that the Armalite shotguns also have the "AR" designation. Thanks.

[ether]

So, by the definition of the law, if I write "AR-15" on the side of a muzzle-loader it's Banned? Bullcrap. I stand by my statement.

No, if you write "AR-15" on the side of a non-Colt rifle, Colt sues you because they own the rights to that trademark.

If you write "Colt AR-15" on the rifle, the ATF jumps all over you because guns that have that written on them are specifically banned by name....but you wouldn't get that far if you were smart because you'd know both Colt and the ATF would be on your tail.

edited to add that the ATF would probably not care if you marked a muzzle-loader with "Colt AR-15". But Colt would be all over it. The moral of the story is, Colt can no longer produce rifles that say "Colt AR-15" and sell them on the civilian market.

[Jeff White]

The facts can be found in Edward Ezell's excellent history The Black Rifle.

Jeff

[Hkmp5sd]

So, by the definition of the law, if I write "AR-15" on the side of a muzzle-loader it's Banned? Bullcrap. I stand by my statement.

What it means is that if you were in possession of a firearm named "Colt AR-15" on September 13, 1994, that firearm, by name, was now a pre-ban assault weapon. Any firearm named "Colt AR-15" that was not in the hands of a private citizen was no longer legal to sell as it became a post-ban assault weapon.

At a later date, ATF issued a ruling that for any firearm to be considered a pre-ban assault weapon, it had to be in a complete assault weapon configuration on the date of enactment. This ruling meant that, according to ATF, a receiver stamped "Colt AR-15" sold after the date of enactment was not, in their opinion, a pre-ban assault rifle and could not then be configured as such. It could be made into a complete rifle, but not with the banned evil features.

This is ATF's opinion and we all know what opinions are like...

[usglfvet]

Pusian Gulf 90/91 - Personaly witnessed a communications weanie with not sure (memory) if it was just an M-16 or an A1 but had "Mattel" copy right logo on the reciever where I expected to see the more known Colt Horse. I was looking around to see what others were able to carry as some of our pilots were bitching about their 38 revolvers plus my pre-war interest in weapons to begin with. I asked to see the weapon and under further examination, I shook it and it was as loose as my 1st wife. It had been around for a long long time. I then asked if he minded, gesturing to break it open and he nodded yes and laughed. I believe he was asked this alot as I'm sure I was not the 1st in disbelief. It was the real deal. Everything as it should be without a forward assist. You can repost all the Snopes/Wiki you want to. It won't change the fact that 1) They are real and out there somewhere. 2) I got to handle one of these dinosaurs that most will say do not exist. I have never seen a trillion dollars but I know it exists.

[ApacheCoTodd]

One of mine's "AR-15". Yet another of the unfired Colts... This has gotta end!

[average_shooter]

Heads up, this thread is over 8 years old. Resurrected by someone with one post who just joined today.

[Z-Michigan]

This must be an all-time necropost record. This belongs in the THR hall of fame.

[ApacheCoTodd]

Funny, I don't check dates or posting numbers outside of selling - guess I'll start. Is there the potential for some kind of scam in this action?

[average_shooter]

I think it just tends to get in the way of constructive, current discussion a lot of times. Not really scam potential.

Resurrecting picture threads, or older threads with information pertinent to the discussion isn't so bad. But resurrecting an 8 year old thread to rant about something that has no bearing on the original discussion or add any pertinent information just kind of gets in the way of the newer threads.

[ApacheCoTodd]

Oh, I get it. Just a bit obstructionist, eh? I get the heebie jeebies with the single post sellers so I was just wonderin'. Thanks. 'Coure, it did get me to pull that pretty out and play with it a bit.

[usglfvet]

Did not realize the thread was that old. There is nothing in the policy about "Not" posting to an old thread but I will be more careful in the future as I know now it hurts your feelings. I guess I should change my name to "Lazarus" then. I will do my best to stay up to date and on topic in the future. For now I will lurk.

[Tirod]

Resurrecting old threads then leads to continued exposure of misinformation, like:

"I remember seeing mattell handgaurds and recievers on some in my unit."

Said memory then being called to account for base falsehoods or the long term impact of self administered psychotropic substances. In other words, that's complete BS, who's smoking crack?

Old threads are old, retreading them gets about the same as tires. They aren't all that.

PS There were a lot of practical jokers who bought the Mattel version and stuck it in the gun rack. And it became even more funny when a soldier went the entire training exercise in the field - either getting over on his sergeant, or completely oblivious he was carrying a cap gun.

I personally own a kitted out Kevlar marked "Hasbro." Very very lightweight. :evil:

[usglfvet]

(PS There were a lot of practical jokers who bought the Mattel version and stuck it in the gun rack.) See we are talking about a different time and place. No gun rack. Pre-AFFEES in the desert. No where to buy "anything" except maybe some local chicken eggs that did not have the crap washed off. (And it became even more funny when a soldier went the entire training exercise in the field) Training? Here again, different time and place. Unlike Beirut, we kept our ammo with us and locked and loaded for gaurd duty or O.P. often. No time for daily showers or hot meals never mind games with fake guns. Through lack of paying attention or too much of a literary challenge, you must have missed the point when I said "Broke it down myself". I am not an armorer but I can Look, Feel and Smell the diffrerence between a Colt upper, lower and action Vs. a plastic toy. I am doubling my efforts to find an old friend who served in the Gulf with me as I believe he and I were together when I witnessed such a weapon.

[average_shooter]

To clarify, nothing hurt my feelings. But resurrecting a thread that's been dead over 8 years to rant about some apparently non-existent rifle isn't really productive.

If any Mattel-branded AR's existed I'm sure they would command a very high premium and we would all know conclusively about their existence. Similar to Singer Sewing Machine Co. 1911's or Union Switch & Signal M1 Carbines.

However, the rumor keeps coming up with absolutely no supporting evidence.

[shep854]

I enjoy seeing old threads resurrected. I've done it (and gotten blasted for it), but most often it brings up useful and interesting discussions. The alternative is often to hash the same issues all over again in a "new" thread.
----
Regarding "Mattel" M16s or parts thereof, if they meet MILSPEC, they are interesting trivia or conversation pieces, otherwise no big deal.:)

[usglfvet]

Then please understand my frustration. If I walked up and pissed on your pant leg and then told you it was Kool Aid you would be just as miserable. It would make things worse if all those around you would not consider it to be true and thought it must be Kool Aid as well. If I had the forethought of Eisenhower after finding the victims of the death camps, I too would have "ordered all possible photographs to be taken" so it could not have been denied but who knew we would be debating this now? I don't care if there were only 10 of these ever made. Or may have been reclaimed and destroyed for what ever reason. I know they did exist. You won't find an "Original" book of Mormon either. The cult went through great lengths to reclaim and destroy them to save themselves a lot of embarrassment. Maybe the same applies to these Mattel riffles. Small amount and easily controlled may have been what made them disappear but for what purpose?

[Orlando]

Sorry but calling BS on"Mattel" copy right logo on reciever , no such animal.
"If " you did see such a thing it had to be someone playing a practical joke and I would say it worked

[Powerglide]

Kinda like "Daisy" branded 22's huh? I got one.Never seen a Mattel AR.Nobody I know has ever seen one and I know some folks who travel, alot.Just sayin.

[TexasRifleman]

Yeah it just depends. Sometimes posting to a really old thread is fine if it's an update on a news story or some additional info that came up after the thread was active.

If it doesn't add anything new and relevant to the thread it usually just gets closed.