Virginia Citizens Defense League too militant?


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Namvet
December 17, 2005, 09:25 AM
Good Morning, all.

As a result of a discussion in a local firearms emporium yesterday, I learned that the NRA distances itself from this organization and that the VCDL themselves caused the concealed carry restaurant ban to remain in effect due to an incident at the state capitol where their representatives were escorted off of the property by the VA. State Police. I know that they are adamant about open- carry in restaurants and open-carry in general (something I am not an advocate of, but will defend the right to do so) and have championed gun rights throughout the "Old Dominion" but was wondering if anyone out there can either confirm or deny the above. Not trolling, just curious. Thanks.

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Navy joe
December 17, 2005, 09:54 AM
I would imagine that the NRA distances themselves because VCDL actually gets results with a very small budget and all volunteer effort. As for the state capitol, the only "incident" that I know of is where a group of the membership attended a session of the General Assembly while carrying. After much consternation on the part of security, and much patient explanation by VCDL it was demonstrated that carry in the statehouse and grounds is legal, and thus the fact that it was posted as a no weapons area was illegal. Every VCDL leader I have met is polite and well-spoken. I have not observed anything the least bit "militant" during my membership.

JamisJockey
December 17, 2005, 10:09 AM
Good Morning, all.

As a result of a discussion in a local firearms emporium yesterday, I learned that the NRA distances itself from this organization and that the VCDL themselves caused the concealed carry restaurant ban to remain in effect due to an incident at the state capitol where their representatives were escorted off of the property by the VA. State Police. I know that they are adamant about open- carry in restaurants and open-carry in general (something I am not an advocate of, but will defend the right to do so) and have championed gun rights throughout the "Old Dominion" but was wondering if anyone out there can either confirm or deny the above. Not trolling, just curious. Thanks.


The people who are after your rights would stop at nothing, so why should the VCDL, NRA, JFPO, GOA, or any other group?

Namvet
December 17, 2005, 12:58 PM
I agree, Navy joe. That's why I was a bit concerned.

crucible
December 17, 2005, 01:46 PM
VCDL caused the ban? VCDL too militant for the NRA?

Sillyness, and I dare say, not a tad bit of jealosy there. The VCDL is the reason why Virginia has the freedom it has, not the NRA. Quite frankly, I see actual results here in Virginia from the VCDL on a monthly basis, and over the years, I've seen exactly squat in comparison from the NRA (and I'm a lifetime member).

Crimony-was the campaign manager for Kilgore in that little discussion?

C-

Titus
December 17, 2005, 03:06 PM
VCDL caused the ban? VCDL too militant for the NRA?

Sillyness, and I dare say, not a tad bit of jealosy there. The VCDL is the reason why Virginia has the freedom it has, not the NRA. Quite frankly, I see actual results here in Virginia from the VCDL on a monthly basis, and over the years, I've seen exactly squat in comparison from the NRA (and I'm a lifetime member).

Crimony-was the campaign manager for Kilgore in that little discussion?

C-

Amen! What does the NRA do on a regular basis for VA? (Yeah, yeah, we're all life members over too, though. :) )

JohnBT
December 17, 2005, 03:38 PM
Militant? :confused: You can't believe everything you hear at the gun store. ;)

Even the usually liberal Washington Post was nice to VCDL. Read the 11/13/04 front page article and see. www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A47809-2004Nov13.html

In fact, just from the following part of the article, it sounds like some of the NRA staff is hiding from VCDL and wishing they'd go away.

"The National Rifle Association, with 100,000 members in Virginia, has not taken a position on the restaurant bill for the upcoming session. And it largely keeps its distance from the Virginia Citizens Defense League.

"I've never run into them. Never talked to them," said Randy Kozuch, the NRA's national director of state and local affairs. "I think they just want to stir it up.""

Like I said, read the article and decide for yourself. National director of state and local affairs indeed. Ha. He needs to get out more.

John
Member www.vcdl.org
NRA Endowment Member

Hobie
December 17, 2005, 03:55 PM
VCDL caused the ban? VCDL too militant for the NRA?

Sillyness, and I dare say, not a tad bit of jealosy there. The VCDL is the reason why Virginia has the freedom it has, not the NRA. Quite frankly, I see actual results here in Virginia from the VCDL on a monthly basis, and over the years, I've seen exactly squat in comparison from the NRA (and I'm a lifetime member).

Crimony-was the campaign manager for Kilgore in that little discussion?

C-
DITTOS!!!!!!! I've been a member since I found out the VCDL existed. I respond to EVERY alert/notification/communication like many members. No, I don't go dining to open carry or run to the state house. However, I've seen several instances where the NRA sold out VA gunowners AND the VCDL to further their own goals (whatever the HECK those goals are, they sure don't always seem to be gun owner rights!!!!).

Kilgore's campaign staff had their collective heads up their wazooos.

WT
December 17, 2005, 05:03 PM
This is a very interesting thread for those of us outside of VA.

I gather the VCDL ACTS while the NRA pontificates.

My last dealings with the NRA royalty was less than satisfactory.

My best wishes to my Virginia brothers in arms.

VTKFJoe
December 17, 2005, 05:33 PM
I gather the VCDL ACTS while the NRA pontificates.


It sure feels that way sometimes. Every gun owner in VA should join VCDL.

Joe

Johnny_Yuma
December 17, 2005, 05:48 PM
seem to be too militant. They like to open carry EVERYWHERE, even to government meetings and such. I think this will eventually result in backlash AGAINST gun rights instead of for them.

I'm letting my membership lapse on this group pretty soon. I'm not really sure what they do with our dues - they sure don't use the money to communicate with the membership. I haven't gotten a single mailing from them since right after I joined.

Standing Wolf
December 17, 2005, 05:49 PM
The V.C.D.L. steps up and does what the N.R.A. talks about.

crucible
December 17, 2005, 06:05 PM
seem to be too militant. They like to open carry EVERYWHERE, even to government meetings and such. I think this will eventually result in backlash AGAINST gun rights instead of for them.

I'm letting my membership lapse on this group pretty soon. I'm not really sure what they do with our dues - they sure don't use the money to communicate with the membership. I haven't gotten a single mailing from them since right after I joined.

Johnny, I don't know why you haven't gotten any emails-I get them at least weekly, sometimes more....and during a legislative session, sometimes several daily. You should have been too; the VCDL really is very communicative to thier membership.

Here's the summary from a recent one status update:

1. Wildwood Park (Radford) signs finally fixed
2. VCDL welcomes new gun show coordinators!
3. VA-ALERT subscribers now top 4,200!
4. Short-sighted RTD Letter to Editor
5. VCDL member's letter to the editor of the Fredericksburg Free Lance-Star
6. Always make sure your gun is unloaded before disassembling!
7. Who needs a gun in a shopping center?
8. Mall shooting in Washington state
9. VCU students disarmed in 5th most dangerous city
10. Date and location set for Arlington-Fairfax IWLA meeting
11. Crime in Metro rail stations undercounted?
12. Stopping a crook UK style (very sad and dangerous)
13. Gun crimes in UK, officer killed
14. Gun crimes continue to climb in Canada (how can that be?)
15. Workplace shooting in Maryland, easy pickings
16. Magazine springs redux
17. Polar Plunge
18. Gun shows and events!

And the details for each of those items would have been below. That's weekly at minimum.

If I could, I'd recommend resigning up on the VA-Alert www.vcdl.org , and look down the column on the right for VA-Alert (this is free folks...and anyone can get it regardless of membership status or location). (Also see the link below it for the VA Alert archive to get an idea of what you should have been getting.)

I'm not much of an open carry man myself. But the fact of the matter is it is legal here in Virginia, has been for hundreds of years, and the only thing that stops rights from being taken away is people utilizing them. Some folks that are open carriers believe that too...and some of them are VCDL members, who fights for all 2A rights within Virginia...and is one of the leading groups in the fight to get national parks carry rights as well.

C-

Majic
December 17, 2005, 06:42 PM
They like to open carry EVERYWHERE, even to government meetings and such. I think this will eventually result in backlash AGAINST gun rights instead of for them.
Since it was a right that a lot of the state had and the VCDL fought for and got for the rest of the state why shouldn't they exercise it even if you don't agree. There is truth in the saying if you don't use it you will lose it.
Maybe being in N.C. you lose sight of what's going on in Va.

About the VCDL being to militant. I see them as stepping up to the plate when the NRA looks for a designator hitter, but the NRA will jump on the bandwangon when the VCDL get results.

Mannlicher
December 17, 2005, 07:01 PM
VCDL too militant? Nope, not by a long shot, pardon the gun related metaphor.

Problem with most gun advocates, is they are too soft spoken, thinking that if they 'play by polite rules', they will be heard. Appeasment has never worked.

Isn't it wonderful of the various States to grant US Citizens the very right that is embodied in the 2nd Ammendment?

We all should be as 'in your face' as our enemies are. Gays, animal rights freaks, eco nazis........... pick your poison. They do NOT shrink from confrontation. Neither should we.

VARifleman
December 17, 2005, 07:54 PM
Good Morning, all.

As a result of a discussion in a local firearms emporium yesterday, I learned that the NRA distances itself from this organization and that the VCDL themselves caused the concealed carry restaurant ban to remain in effect due to an incident at the state capitol where their representatives were escorted off of the property by the VA. State Police. I know that they are adamant about open- carry in restaurants and open-carry in general (something I am not an advocate of, but will defend the right to do so) and have championed gun rights throughout the "Old Dominion" but was wondering if anyone out there can either confirm or deny the above. Not trolling, just curious. Thanks.
This isn't true. It is legal to carry, open or concealed in the state legislature if you have a CCW. It is not legal to carry in there at all if you do not have a CCW. The gun store folks just don't know what they are talking about.

NineseveN
December 17, 2005, 07:56 PM
Too militant? That's a good one. :rolleyes:

They get the job done kids, and that's the long and short of it. People cry doo about backlash from Open Carry, but we haven't seen that in VA, now have we? Their rights have been increasingly recognized largely due to the VCDL and in spite of the NRA appeasement practices.

The NRA does what it does, the VCDL does what it does, but it's seems to me that the VCDL holds a near monopoly on getting things done in VA whereas the NRA gets things done in soe other places, and nothing in others as well.


Wish we had a PCDL up here in PA, the local NRA has screwed us, so have many of our grass roots organizations over the years. But, aside from Philadelphia, we don't really have it so bad here, but to have it better would be nice.

georgeduz
December 17, 2005, 08:11 PM
we need a group like that in nj ,

NineseveN
December 17, 2005, 08:16 PM
we need a group like that in nj ,

I think it'll take more than that. :neener:

BullfrogKen
December 18, 2005, 12:26 AM
The NRA in PA backed Arlen Specter (R) for his 5th senate run this year. He has long been a thorn to the Republican party. In western conservative PA, he ran Bush/Specter campaign signs; in eastern PA and his home Philly, he ran KERRY/Specter signs. The NRA came out and backed him against a conservative challenger, Toomey, who nearly won the primary (51% - 49%; an unheard of challenge to a 4th term senator from a little known state rep). Many credit the last minute support from the NRA and a speech from Bush. Specter then, and now, repeatedly challenges core Republican issues. He now sits on the Senate Judiciary Committee, which was a position he nearly lost when he criticized Bush the week he won his re-election.

I called the NRA to complain and ask them to stay out of our primaries. Their response - they back encumbants and we "needed a man of his experience" Well, I decided not to renew my membership, and continue my support of GOA and JPFO. The NRA is the loyal opposition, and would rather been seen as supporting hunting acivities and other "mainstream issue". Rather than getting their hands dirty defending the core issues behind the right to arms, they beat their chests over defending the right for retired police to carry, more gun laws and enforcing those we have, and doing their level best to excuse themselves whenever they get leveled as extreme.

The NRA is the loyal opposition and go out of their way to make sure they don't get seen as radical. In the meantime, we get sold out in each and every compromise.

another okie
December 18, 2005, 03:04 PM
I don't know anything about the particular group, but you have to have radicals in any movement to get anything done.

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