[Kilgor]

Had one Taurus. The quality was iffy. That was enough for me.

[marley]

In VA I have hiked with a sp101 and a 66. Both in .357. I have used a g-32 and a light weight commander in .45. I have never seen a bear. I have seen either wild dogs or coyotes. They did not close but, the 85 lbs lab had something to do with that. The dog is no longer with me and I am looking for another. I might see more wild life with out him but I'll never feel as " safe". Patrick

[camsdaddy]

Living in S Georgia my chances of bear are pretty slim. I am thinking of getting a 3" SP101 in 357 for CCW, woods (snake, human pred) etc, I am wodering if it would be adequet for deer at appropriate ranges such as a bow.

[Shawn Michael]

I carry a S&W TTR8. When you take off the steel accessory rails you have a very light gun with a 5 inch barrel and eight rounds of doubletap 180gr hardcast .357...considering how light it is it is really easy to control. If I trusted my life to an auto I would be really intersted in the glock 20 as well.

For everything else it is the .500. 2900lbs at the muzzle really similar to the hot 12ga slugs.

[86thecat]

Is the Beartooth lead gas checked round ok for use in a Glock, I thought the rifling caused problems with non jacketed bullets possibly causing a kaboom? If it's ok is there a link to the info?
Thanks

[LAK Supply]

The Beartooth load will work fine in your Glock barrel. It's hard-cast and gas-checked so you don't have the lead transfer around the slug, but you do want to clean your barrel after every box just to be sure.

I shoot them out of a 6" Jarvis pipe and have no problems, and my wife shoots them out of her factory Glock 20 barrel with no problems.

[Snapping Twig]

I've got my favorite woods gun - 3" S&W 629 .44 magnum.

Nothing I can't do with it, compact, easy to pack. Reloading opens up a world of possibilities for me, from the lightest .44 special loads (in magnum cases) to bear stopping cast bullet loads.

Revolvers are by their nature more dependable and 6 rounds is plenty. I can carry a couple speed loaders on my belt as well. Shot shells made with gas checks work brilliantly in snake country.

I have Trijicon 3 dot self luminous sights for twilight and night time duties since I find myself humping back to camp after dark and cougar are plentiful in California. Don't think I'm advocating cougar hunting - I'm not. I'm advocating my own survival if forced to make the choice.

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a51/SnappingTwig1/P8150007.jpg

[Nematocyst]

...on a remote backpacking trip in the mountains
what is your sidearm of choice?An 1894C in .357 mag (http://www.marlinfirearms.com/Firearms/1894centerfire/1894C.aspx) (left side)
with a side of 65 (right side).

[jeepmor]

I like my FS Witness in 10mm. It carries 15+1 of the 230 grain beartooth rounds and easily hides under a t-shirt for CCW purposes if you are in Wilderness territory and still want protection. And, to my surprise, it was actually pretty comfortable under my daypack waist belt. Sure, you can argue that it would add to my draw time, but backpacking any weight w/o a belt is silly. It still in the best location it can be, one hand can undo the belt while the other draws. I'm not going to use one of the safepackers or anything of that nature unless it can actually be made to fit my backpack waistbelt.


I have not tried this rig on my big Vortex pack just yet, but I suspect the same comfort levels. It did not become uncomfortable until I got sweaty and fatigued. But compared to my feet, it was a nice distraction.

[capitolpeak]

LAK supply------- I called glock and asked about that beartooth round and he said quote: " we dont like anything that isnt jacketed in our guns" and basically told me NO on whether the G29 could take the DT HC rounds. Is he just being on the safe side? He didnt seem to knowledgable about DT at all so maybe thats the case.:confused:

[Kilgor]

There is no build up with Double Tap BTB loads. The barrel is as clean as jacketed loads.

[wuchak]

That makes sense for the 29 but given the increased control you have with the full sized grip of the 20, especially with hot loads, I'd take the extra three ounces and shave it off my load somewhere else.

Whatever you get the Safepacker is far and away the best backpacking holster I have ever seen. It will attach to the waist belt on your pack and then quickly go from there to your belt when you put your pack down and when you are around camp. A big plus is that it doesn't look like a holster. Unless you tell someone what it is they would have no idea.

[LAK Supply]

LAK supply------- I called glock and asked about that beartooth round and he said quote: " we dont like anything that isnt jacketed in our guns" and basically told me NO on whether the G29 could take the DT HC rounds. Is he just being on the safe side? He didnt seem to knowledgable about DT at all so maybe thats the case.

The consistency of the hardcasts is such that fouling is not usually an issue. As Kilgor mentioned, the 200 gr BT and the 230 gr (he's not using BT bullets for these although they're very similar) will usually leave a clean barrel just as jacketed bullets will. If you are shooting a lot of the hardcast bullets I would clean your barrel after every session..... This is probably not necessary, but after shooting a lot heat tends to build up and some leading may occur. I would rather be safe than sorry in this case....

As for Glock... they are not knowledgeable about many of the loadings out there; they simply know (correctly so) that most lead bullets are going to foul a barrel with poly rifling. It wouldn't be wise on their part to recommend ANY lead bullets without knowing the exact specs of those bullets.... that would be opening them up for serious liability.

You will be fine with the hardcast bullets that Mike offers..... you won't be disappointed with their performance. I think Mike said the 230's will penetrate something like thirty-three 3/4" pine boards; they will leave a wound channel you can stick your thumb in when fired through living tissue. That is more than adequate to take down anything alive as long as you do your part.

My Glock 20 rides on my hip with either the 200 or 230 hardcasts from DT.... and my 6" Jarvis pipe for a little extra velocity (200 gr at 1410 or so and 230 at around 1250) and better accuracy. I'd rather have something like that than something like the 460 that is so heavy I don't want to carry it for more than an hour...... that's not to mention recoil and follow-ups. I can put 3 rounds into a 3-4" group point-shooting at distances of 15-20 yards in the time that it will take me to get one off out of the big-bore wheelguns. When the adrenaline is pumping and things are being carried out on instinct I would much prefer something that is only adequate but is controllable and comfortable...... the biggest baddest big-bore is useless if it can't be used effectively.

[capitolpeak]

That is true. Although, I just read an article( in shooting times I think). It was about lion hunting in africa. Granted we have no real lions but their hide is alot softer than a bears. There was an experience of a hunter putting two rounds from I believe a 375H&H magnum rifle in this charging lion. One at 25yds and one at 5 yds. She then proceded to destroy his left leg and maul him badly before dropping dead. They found that one of the rounds had ripped right through the center of her heart destroying it, yet she lived "long enough".

Point was that even a perfect shot to the best of vitals might not do the job, and with that being said a big, heavy, powerful round is key cause you probably only have one shot.

Sounds like a sweet combo on that G20 . Probably the best a person could get when concerned with weight. I just cant stop thinking about the SR alaskan in 454 though. Its only 41 ounces. Im thinking thats not so heavy afterall since my XD45 weighs like 42 ounces loaded:eek:

[Kilgor]

Your definition of "best of vitals" needs to be revised. If you need dead or stopped right there, you need a central nervous system hit.

Shoot the bruin's brain or disconnect it from the rest of the body with a spinal hit. I choose to aim for the nose as it is the easiest corridor to the brain. Bullets have been known to glance off of the thick, sloped forehead of a bear.

[Nematocyst]

IMO, Kilgor has it right.

Stopping a heart only stops blood flow.
Blood carries glucose, oxygen and CO2.
If muscles have sufficient glucose & O2,
movement can continue for minutes ...

Stopping a CNS
(brain/spinal cord)
stops movement.

Stopping a heart via
.357, .44 or .45
won't stop movement.

Stopping a brain w/ any of those will.

Shot placement, shot placement, shot ...

[capitolpeak]

Yeah, thats true. Heart shot is great if your hunting and dont need an instant kill or at least an instant stop. Problem is, theres no way to train "shot placement" with a dangerous wild animal charging you. Theres just no comparison. No amount of practice or training can prepare one for that.

And I dont care how good a shot someone is, You most likely wont hit what you need to in that few seconds(if you get that much). No, I will rely on absolute brute force over shot placement in that scenario anyday. With a big and bad enough magnum, I believe that any frontal body hit will at the very least slow or stop him long enough to follow up with a more thought out kill shot. 454 it is:D

[Nematocyst]

I will rely on absolute brute force over shot placement in that scenario anyday. With a big and bad enough magnum, I believe that any frontal body hit will at the very least slow or stop him long enough to follow up with a more thought out kill shot. 454 it is :DI can't argue against that strategy, C'Peak.

But then, I can't support it unequivocally either. I'm NOT saying it's wrong, I just don't know any stats.

Besides pure anecdote, does anyone know if that "brute force" tactic really works, say on a charging, pissed off griz?

Sounds plausible, but ... "plausible" could get one eaten.

I have no doubt that if I was in AK, I wouldn't be carrying a .357 mag as my primary SD arm.

If a handgun (which is what the OP asked about), it'd be more likely to be .454C or something similar in AK. (In my neck of the woods, I feel just fine with .357 mag).

But in AK (or Montana or northern ID or other areas where Mr. Griz hangs out), I'd be more likely to carry 12 ga slug gun or something like .45-70 (e.g., 1895G or something similar). If'n ya want brute force, I'm betting they'd do better than the .454C ... but again, that's a guess. Haven't looked at the ballistics.

Then, again, this IS a handgun thread, so the argument may be moot.

[capitolpeak]

Thats the conclusion Iv come to. From what Iv read and heard (LOL which is the only thing I have to go on) in the instance were discussing, our eyes arent gonna see a bear. Their gonna see a big black or brown blur heading toward them at a very high rate of speed. And we will fire into the center mass of that blur as fast and with as many rounds as we can, instinct I guess. My idea is that I dont believe any human can hit any certain part of the mentioned blur in that situation. So I will count on getting lucky with one of those shots and up my chances with a big bore.

But there are many ideas about this that could be right. In fact in any given circumstance any idea could be better than the other. But I find this one the most consistantly believed in and to me it makes the most sense.

I prefer to underestimate my ability's and overcompensate than to find out the hard way. Besides, I would probly pass out before I even cleared the holster:D


Heres some stats on the casull from double tap. pretty impressive


http://www.doubletapammo.com/php/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=21_39&products_id=148

[Kilgor]

I bet I can put 5 hardcast 10mm rounds on target faster than you can get a second shot on target with a .454 casull... hell maybe before you can unlimber that hog leg and get one shot off.

If you think you will be point shooting, wouldn't more rounds faster make sense?

I have 16 deep penetrating rounds in a light, ultra-reliable auto. How about you?

[Magnum.35744]

Hello,

When my Grandpa and I decided to go onto some private game farm to go hunting for a couple of days the owner let me carry my Pap's Ruger Security Six .357 Magnum with a 6" Barrel in a hip holster. I carried that thing while walking through the woods with my thick heavy hunting clothes on and even when running around trying to veer animals off (Long story) it became very cumbersome and had to hold it down half the time so it didn’t flop up and down. Although I have to admit I'm 14 and although I'm very responsible with firearms and respect them highly I kind of felt like Dirty Harry for those couple of days :p:D. When the time came to kill my hog it was very easy and was glad to keep that .357 on me the whole time. We ended up getting close and personal with some Buffalo and elk, and when walking with two other fella's from my hunting group I accidentally stumbled upon a hogs meal and wished I would of had that .357 with me because it came at me in a threatening manner :uhoh: until the gentlemen I was with pulled me behind him drawing his .45 although the pig ended up going the other way in the end :eek:. But a .357 should do you just fine...I really like those Smith and Wesson 627's they got out :). The extra two shots could come in handy I suspect.

-Tre

[capitolpeak]

Umm....did I say something to offend you? If I did I'm sorry. In my earlier post I did say that a G20 with hardcasts in my mind is probly the best all around. If you are for a fact that good, then great. I hope if this ever does happen someone like you is with me cause I like my chances alot better(not being sarcastic). But im not gonna put all my faith in something I have no experience with. Have you been attacked by a bear? Did you put 5 rounds in him successfully? And did he drop? If so then man, Im a believer.

But if not........then its just speculation as to how your brain will react in that scenario. This is fact. None of us really know. And as far as the " faster than I can clear the holster" thing... maybe so. But its not because of the difference in guns. I dont know which auto you have, Im guessing it is the G20. This glock weighs like 27.5 ounces empty, a loaded mag (15rds) weighs about 11.5 ounces. This makes 39 or so total ounces. Only about 7 ounces less than a loaded casull.....not much. Plus the SRA is shorter than the glock. So human ability's aside, I doubt it.

I believe you should read my last post. That was my personal choice, just thrown out there to maybe help someone. Im not saying its better, JUST MY CHOICE. ;)

[capitolpeak]

Just for fun

http://www.the-armory.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/product1056.html

http://www.ruger.com/Firearms/FAProdSpecsView?model=5301


I was wrong about the length, their about the same. but the weight is the difference of an empty salt shaker. Your glock is not as "light" as you may think when actually loaded, and I dont think any glock is more reliable than a SRH .:rolleyes: You believe in your gun, I believe in your gun,and so do most ppl here. It doesnt need a defense.

[Redneck with a 40]

I personally carry a 357 when I'm out in the backcountry. I live out here in Colorado, the biggest potential threat is a Black Bear and the chances of being mauled by one of those is slim. I'm more concerned about the 2 legged critters that are drunk, drugged up, or just looking for an easy target. Recently, there was a murder at a remote campsite outside of Fairplay, Colorado. I'm very accurate with my Taurus Tracker 357, it has a seven shot cylinder and the recoil is not bad at all, even with full house magnum loads.:D I load Buffalo Bore 158's in my 357, they push 1475 fps with 750+ ft lbs energy. I'm accurate with it and its controllable, that's why I carry it. If I can't handle the situation in 7 rounds, then I figure I'm pretty much screwed.:neener:

[luke conagher]

As far as personal defense weapons for bears go, if you cant get ahold of an rpg or vulcan 30mm cannon go with the Ruger SuperRedhawk Alaskan in 44 mag. I own one and love it. I guess it could be a little on the heavy/bulky side for some people, but in a waist pack I hardly notice it is there. I carry it in a waistpack hiking in east Tn. I almost had to use it on a mama bear with two cubs. I would of hated to do that but my little girl was with me and as far as that goes I'll shoot first and ask questions later. Luckily the mama and three cubs just ran off. But it sure felt good having that hand cannon in my hands.With the shorter 2.5 inch barrel it still retains good 44 mag ballistics (only about 50 to 100 f.p.s. slower) and with the weight and those rubber grips, recoil is nothing.As far as two legged critters goes, corbon makes the 200 grainDPX load in 44 special. I have chronographed this load at 890 to 920 F.P.S.
That puts you with 6 shots of 45 acp ballistics.

[ChCx2744]

Whoever that was that said 6 shots of .44 magnum would not stop a charging grizzly bear is sadly mistaken. A single, well-placed shot from a .44 magnum to even the shoulder-area of a HUGE bear will DROP it where it stands; I've seen it happen. I *also* find it hard to believe that a .44 magnum "won't do anything to a bear's skull." I strongly believe a .44 magnum to a frigging bear's skull will do SOME OF SOMETHING. Even so, that bullet should go into an eye or nosehole...If it enters one of those, the bear is going to notice.

[indiandave]

A well placed shot might be difficult if you suprise a bear and his charge begins at less then 20-30 yards. You will be lucky to get one shot off. Better to stay alert and avoid situations like that. Make lots of noise when hiking. Avoid berry patchs. Don't sleep in the cloths you ate in. etc.

A .44 would be the smallest gun I would carry If large Brown Bears are in the area. A rifle in a calibur in the fours would give me more confidence.

[travellingJeff]

G20.


Hard to argue with 15 rounds of 10mm.

Even a big mean bear would be a bit offended by that :-)


If you're taking a rifle, a short barreled .45-70 with a ghost ring would be a good piece.

[searcher451]

Well, the answer is obvious if you believe the information contained here:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=468149

[Domino]

I would carry my 4" GP100 if it had to be a handgun.

I know this is the handgun section but I honestly would rather have my KT Sub 2000 in 9mm w/ Glock 19 grip than a revolver. With 124g +P Gold Dot ammunition pumping out 1450 fps it performs very close to a .357 revolver with a 125g load. Also the gun is very compact, lightweight, way quieter than a .357, has 15-33 round magazine capacity, and I can actully hit something with it at 100 yards as it is a 4-6 MOA rifle! I know my GP100 could probably shoot about that good but I can't do it. Plus, with some light loads it could be used to harvest smaller game and even up to deer or small black bears.

I live in the southeast and I don't think I would need anything else in a woods gun. And it folds up in your backpack ready for quick deployment.

[Drgong]

If I had say, $800 to spend, I would look at the Alaskan, 6 shots of .44 special or Mag in a gun about as heavy as a heavy 1911 would be my choice.

Since I went on a walk and encountered a brown bear (who was thankfully as scared of me as he/she scared me) I am thinking of upgrading my current Nagant/BHP/Model 15 options.

[ccsniper]

41 mag is my handgun choice for bears.

[B BRI]

Actually, for a charging bear, the Alaska wildlife authorities recommend that you aim for the nose for a frontal brain shot. As a bear gets closer to you it becomes technically easier to get a good brain shot. Unfortunately, it also gets easier to become completely flustered and miss the beast entirely while you are soiling your drawers. The answer is practice, practice, practice.


+1

the old saying is you can never have too much gun. ;)

That being said, when I am in black bear territory, as I often am, I typically will carry my 45 acp Glock 21 at a minimum. When I am in Griz country, which is less often, I will either carry my 44 Mag Vaquero with warm loads (as Elmer would have liked) or my 45 Colt Vaquero with warm loads (as I know Elmer would have approved of). If I knew I was going up against a big bruin I would prefer my 375 H&H or something of the sort.

Bottom line, you need penetration and big holes regardless of the species.

[Nematocyst]

Bottom line, you need penetration and big holes regardless of the species. Along with situational awareness,
an ability to think in nsec,
and balls of steel to face a charge (http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=467994&highlight=bear).

Not many have all of those.

Me? I just whistle while I walk in bear country
and religiously keep food out of the tent.

[B BRI]

and balls of steel

. . . sorry, I just assumed these were standard issue for Mountain Men!:D

[DesertMarine]

44 mag in a S&W or Ruger single action. 44 mag has proven itself in putting down large bears up to brown bears.

[CornCod]

I hike a little off and on in the foothills in the Ouachita Mountains in West-Central Arkansas. The bruins are pretty rare and people argue whether Mountain Lions even exist here, so I take my Bersa Thunder .380 with me. I don't need to be weighed down with a big piece of steel.

[rkamp]

I use a 1911 in 10mm when in the hills of N. CA loaded with DT 200GR XTP's.


http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o196/rkamp_111/DSC01574.jpg

[ccsniper]

and people argue whether Mountain Lions even exist here

I can assure you, they do. I have a picture my dad took a about 10 years ago of one in the background at mount magazine. they didnt even know it was there until after the photo got developed.

[Drgong]

The Urban fable around here is that they "Don't exist" as that by admitting that they exist would cause untold problems with rule making bodies.

[MCgunner]

TP&W will tell you cougar don't exist in the eastern half of Texas other than in East Houston (UH has a mascot), but there are a few around. I have a friend who's seen TWO in his life here. He's in his 70s now. I have personally seen tracks that could only have been one, too big for bobcat and definitely a cat track. If it was a bobcat, it'd had to have been a 100 lber and I've never seen a bobcat that went over 50 or 60 lbs and that one was HUGE for a bobcat.

But, while I do believe there are a few cougar around here, it ain't like I'm worried about getting pounced on. :rolleyes: I've never heard of a cat attack in this area of the state. It happens where they're badly over-populated like in California where the PETA morons have killed the hunting of 'em. The more people cats eat in California, the better off is the rest of the country as far as I'm concerned. I think the odds of one attacking someone out there who'd frequent this board are pretty slim, just the odds, ya know. Out of 100 people in Orange country, 2 might be gun owners, LOL. :D The rest can reap what they sow.

[xstuntman]

We had a pair of mountain lions working along the river here as it passes through town and pets were getting kinda scarce. When at work one of my jobs is to go down and check the river every couple hours at night. Had a 9mm but for the first time in my life I realized I didn't have enough handgun:D X

[earlthegoat2]

357 Magnum, Ruger GP100 or Smith 686.

[Balrog]

I don't think a lot of people who are responding here have actually done long distance back packing.

[Redneck with a 40]

Ruger Redhawk 45 Colt with +P handload's. This equals 44 magnum power with a bigger bullet.:)

[shep854]

"I don't think a lot of people who are responding here have actually done long distance back packing."--Balrog

Ya think some of the guns (and ammo) mentioned are a tad heavy?:scrutiny:

[Balrog]

On the third day of a hike, your 44 mag which felt so light on day one will feel like it ways 10 pounds, unless you are above 8000 feet, in which case it will feel like 20. You will be begging for a grizzly to eat you so you don't have to pack the thing back home.

[B BRI]

On the third day of a hike, your 44 mag which felt so light on day one will feel like it ways 10 pounds, unless you are above 8000 feet, in which case it will feel like 20. You will be begging for a grizzly to eat you so you don't have to pack the thing back home.

Now, that's funny.

Well, I live at 7000 feet, and while carrying a duty belt and wearing a level IIIA vest on foot patrol all day can wear me out, packing a 44 or a 45 into the hills is pretty easy. Would it be easier without it? Sure, but I'd feel a little naked.

[shep854]

"On the third day of a hike, your 44 mag which felt so light on day one will feel like it ways 10 pounds, unless you are above 8000 feet, in which case it will feel like 20. You will be begging for a grizzly to eat you so you don't have to pack the thing back home."--Balrog

Yeah; it's a good idea to pack for the last day of a trip, rather than the first.;)

[Balrog]

Well, I live at 7000 feet, and while carrying a duty belt and wearing a level IIIA vest on foot patrol all day can wear me out, packing a 44 or a 45 into the hills is pretty easy. Would it be easier without it? Sure, but I'd feel a little naked.

How much does your gear weigh total on a daily basis? Most backpakers are carrying 25 pounds or so. Are you doing a lot of uphill, and downhill hiking on narrow irregular paths? The quality of your path is important in determining how hard it is to pack gear. You are probably better physically trained than most people if you are doing that on a daily basis. Also, remember you are at an advantage already if you live at altitude of 7000 feet. Most people who are backpacking live at lower elevations than they hike.

[B BRI]

Also, remember you are at an advantage already if you live at altitude of 7000 feet. Most people who are backpacking live at lower elevations than they hike.

It's definately an advantage to live at altitude, one of the reasons the Olympic Training Center is in Colorado Springs. There's an old saying that you know you're from Colorado when you notice that people from out of state breathe 5 times as often as you do. ;)

As far as lugging my duty belt / gear / vest . . . probably at least 25 pounds and quite a bit of up and down hill, but on good trails and sidewalks. Not that I do it everyday, but often enough. I'll admit it's definately a different beast if you are humping up into the hills on a game trail.

Frankly, If I need to carry that much gear into the hills, my horse is going to be carrying it. For day long hiking in the hills west of here (aka the Rocky Mountains) packing a 44 or 45 is just something I do. Like Taffin, I'm still looking for the perfect packin' pistol. Awfully fond of my Ruger Vaquero Montado in 45 Long Colt these days. :D

In my younger days when I did pack in on foot for multiple days, I simply lightened my pack instead of forgoing a big shooting iron.

Two many big critters in the woods, including the two legged ones . . .

[nathan]

If in the lower CONUS and in bear habitat, i would be comfortable carrying my Glock 23. If its in Alaska and expecting grizzlies, a mountain gun such as .357 mag full power would be my choice.

[Balrog]

As far as lugging my duty belt / gear / vest . . . probably at least 25 pounds and quite a bit of up and down hill, but on good trails and sidewalks. Not that I do it everyday, but often enough. I'll admit it's definately a different beast if you are humping up into the hills on a game trail.

If you do that much heavy packing at high altitude (I consider living at 7000 feet high altitude), then I would say you are probably not a good representative sample of what the average backpacker is or can expect. If you take someone living at sea level, put 30 pounds on their back, and start hiking them at 7000 feet, they are going to quickly figure out what they need to do to lighten their load.

[Nematocyst]

If you take someone living at sea level, put 30 pounds on their back,
and start hiking them at 7000 feet, they are going to quickly figure out what they need to do to lighten their load. Add being out of shape from sitting at a desk most of the year,
and that the high country in NM, CO, UT starts at 10,000' and goes up to 14k'...
yeah, a lot of people start counting ounces.

[JWJacobVT]

I lived in Alaska for two years and spent most of my off duty time in the backwoods (ten to twenty miles off the main road) I always carried three firearms: a S&W 29 44 mag, a S&W 18 22LR and a Rem 870 loaded with brennke slugs and buck. Around camp or while fishing the 870 was usually leaning against a tree, but the pistols were always on me. Only ran into two bears in two years, one griz a half mile away(no prob) and a large black that I feed some grayling (I figured I wasnt going to shoot the bear unless he attacked me and there were plenty of fish). However a few years later I was back up there for two months of training and the group(50 people) safety rifle (338 mag) was buried in the back of the vehicle somewhere ie no easy access. We saw numerous black bear during that time, I had no worries. In the top pocket of my pack (100 lbs) was my S&W 629 4 inch, easily accessible. What I carry now in the woods ie either my 44 or 10mm and my 22. If hiking my 10mm, if hunting either all depends what rifle I have the kids carry (44 or 10mm). I have no fears that my 10mm will take care of most anything I encounter including mr griz.

[B BRI]

Quote:
If you take someone living at sea level, put 30 pounds on their back,
and start hiking them at 7000 feet, they are going to quickly figure out what they need to do to lighten their load.

Add being out of shape from sitting at a desk most of the year,
and that the high country in NM, CO, UT starts at 10,000' and goes up to 14k'...
yeah, a lot of people start counting ounces.


. . . point taken, I agree I'm maybe not the best representative sample, but I'm still carrying my 44's and 45's into the woods.

And the air does get a little thin up around timberline . . . ;)

[Erik M]

I usually ride 4x4 with a .38+p and a .22 mag in my pack. Buddy always carries a .45 and a .22lr in his pack. We usually ride with more than 4 people, and they carry various firearms. If I go alone or ride double I pack my grandfathers .357. Whomever is doubling carries my .40.

[AZ Desertrat]

I would say as a general rule, bring a .44Mag....that way you have bear country covered, or other 4-legged critters with teeth. And at a minimum, pack a .357Mag.

[Balrog]

Day hiking and backpacking are not very similar, in terms of what you can or need to carry. For a day hike, you can take a big gun and not have a problem, because you are not carrying much except a little food and water. For a backpacking trip over several days, weight becomes critical. Backpackers obsess about weight, and will do a lot of interesting things to lighten their load even minutely. For example, I have known backpackers who will saw off the end of their toothbrush. Sounds crazy, I realize, and I have not gone that far, but I guess they figure every little bit helps.

How many people have actually carried an N frame on a multi-day backpacking trip? I did once, and would not do it again. If you can do it, more power to you. But I think for the average backpacker, it is just not realistic.

[Nematocyst]

^ Balrog nailed it: there's a huge difference between day hikes and a multiday backpack, especially in big high country when snow might fly.

Backpackers who backpack often and enjoy light weight (especially those of us that aren't huge people ourselves) will go to extremes to cut ounces. It only takes 16 of those to make a pound, and pounds matter even more.

The guru of modern backpackers, Collin Fletcher (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colin_Fletcher), confessed to having taken a postal scale to a department store to weigh clothing.

I haven't gone that far, but given a choice between a 6 lb tent and a 3 lb ultralight (http://cascadedesigns.com/MSR/Tents/Fast-And-Light-Tents/Hubba-HP/product), I'll take the 3 lb'er.

Influences my gun choices, also.

[shep854]

Ever trimmed the edges of off your maps?

[KaceCoyote]

Taurus judge, .44mag or .357mag in the revolver of your choice (preferably with a light rail) and a matching lever action.

I dont think a light rail is entirely optional for remote backpacking. I do adventure riding, with a dirt bike. I've spent more than a few times all by myself in some very remote locations. Granted, my usual fret is snakes(thus the judge) but there are bears and feral dogs and feral boar out there too. Alot of these critters prefer the night, and assuming you've just woken up and your heart's racing and the animal's moving its not a sure thing that you can make a perfect killshot in a pinch.

Assuming I survive long enough to run out've ammo, but not kill the damned beastie (hey its possible) I want the option of keeping the light on whilst I go through the reload. I dont need to be fumbling with a flashlight as I swap speedloads.

Also consider that with alot've animals, really intense light is often enough to dissuade their curiosity. I know out here I've bumped into a couple feral pups, and well its a dog so I'd really rather not shoot the poor guy. A bright blast of light is usually enough to send them in the other direction.

I think its important to remember the availability of ammunition as well. Lets say the -worst- happens. Your cartridge belt gets some freezing rain, and the rounds get heavily encrusted with ice. Now you worry that, if you -need- them the freezing and thawing may have gotten moisture inside the round. You decide its a wise decision to swap ammo around, and hold the suspect stuff in reserve. When you head back into town for gas, the local gunstores dont carry your exotic cartridge of choice (.41 and .460 come to mind) so your sorta stuck.

Yeah sure you can carry more ammo in your truck, but lets say your on a mountain bike or a dirtbike. You cant afford to just carry a brick of ammo wherever you go.

[d2wing]

If I was in grizzly country I'd carry my Ruger .357. I have been charged by a bull moose.
Armed only with a shotgun with #7 1/2 birdshot, and unable to climb a tree quick enough
I did the only thing I could. I quickly unzipped and took a leak. I noted that I was directly upwind and knew that the sudden smell of human urine might spook him. It worked, either that or seeing me, he didn't feel like he was a bull anymore. My other choice would be a lightweight .22lr. My personal camp pistol is a Ruger single six with both 22lr and 22 mag cylinders. I think any thing bigger is too heavy and bulky to carry.
unless your intent is to hunt big game.

[Nematocyst]

I quickly unzipped and took a leak. I noted that I was directly upwind and knew that the sudden smell of human urine might spook him. :scrutiny:

[d2wing]

I am not sure what that means. When a bull moose charges you you don't get too many options or time to execute them. My other choices as I recall were to get stomped and pee my pants or the slim chance bird shot would do more than piss him off. If you get charged by a moose what would you do?

[Dr_2_B]

Glock 20

[Nematocyst]

I am not sure what that means. It means that if a bull moose was charging me, the last thing I would think of doing would be to unzip and ...

But then, I don't live in moose country.

I'm waiting for moose experts to chime in on the strategy before I say, "Oh, OK, that's reasonable."

[Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow]

I would take a 5.5" Ruger Redhawk in .45 colt. I would have 300 grain hardcast bullets for bear; lightweight hollowpoints for the drug grower that wants to "get you."

I would keep the cylinder loaded with the hardcast. the HP in a few speed loaders.

If no bear in the area, a 10 mm Glock.

I like this answer...

[content]

In Montana/ Canada remote hikes I carried the Ruger Redhawk 44.mag. 6 shot 7 1/2 inch stainless. Weight issues were made up for every time I went to bed. ;- ) . 7 1/2 inch lets you start hitting farther away and weight reduces recoil thus you are qiucker back on target. Double action lets you keep shooting after you put left arm in bears mouth (you can not out run or out climb a bear or for that matter reliably kill one with a revolver) so I think we are talking do or die here./// Best to use your wits against bear ,be loud going around blind corners, clap, whistle, never smell like food. // If hiking in north west in August-September learn to identify and avoid Hawthorn Thickets, the berries slow down metabolism and the bears gorge on them before hibernating.Good safe hiking .. content

[d2wing]

I guess some folks are a little faster than others both thinking and with zippers.

[dmazur]

I like the idea of a .44 Mag in back country, so that's what I carry. Somewhere around 50 oz. loaded.

Whether day hiking or overnight, that thing quickly becomes a brick and I don't like the reality of carrying it at all.

However, I just can't make myself carry something lighter, like my 1911.

(I figure I'll work out a little more and get in better physical condition to deal with this minor issue. It's easier than trying to put the proper gun on a diet...)

[shep854]

If you come across scat that smells of pepper spray and has bits of bells in it, be very careful...you're in griz territory. :p:scrutiny:;)

[CoRoMo]

Ruger BH in .357, sometimes supplemented by a DB 12ga. if I'm hiking over 10 miles deep, alone, and part of it is going to be in the dark.

[COSteve]

The best compromise I've found here in the rockies is a 4" 686 in .357 mag.

My top 5 concerns in the mountains:

People
Lightning
Weather
Dehydration
Injury / rolling an ankle


Black bear and Cougar are waaaay down the list, but I feel confident with the .357 mag and a heavy bullet.

I've been in the mountains with a 629 and a Blackhawk in .45 Colt... both were pretty cumbersome compared to the 686. If you can comfortably lug a hog leg up here, more power to you (literally).

[agoodpeter]

i carry a glock 30 with crimson laser site for hikes,, the 45 acp is cheap enough to pratice without going broke,, and the laser site allows u to piont and shoot when scared,, though a concern is the the laser on button would get pressed , but in a my fobus holster on the hip or in the bag it does ok,, lots of people in this thread say a 10mm,, but for routine practice,, the 45 is more realistic -- just mei do not want change the topic of the thread

[denfoote]

I would say as a general rule, bring a .44Mag....that way you have bear country covered, or other 4-legged critters with teeth. And at a minimum, pack a .357Mag.

Yuppers!!

My tramp through the desert gun is:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v22/denfoote/N-frameSmith.jpg

Smith model 28.

[Meeteetse]

For me the answer is easy. For the last 50 years I have carried either a Ruger SBH .44 mag or a .357 Ruger or S&W. Which one depends on what I am doing. Fishing, the .44 is the choice, with a 30/30 attached to my pack. Hunting, the .357 gets the call as backup to the hunting gun. Never felt comfortable with a semi-auto because I like to carry various loads; light specials for small game, shot loads for snakes and hot loads for whatever. Can't do that with a semi.

I've always felt you should carry the biggest gun you can shoot well, and you have to be honest about that. If your limit or experience is a .22, so be it. Might not be the best in bear country, but depending on the bear, a handgun may not be the best choice at any time. I've always been more concerned about two legged critters than bears.

[Vern Humphrey]

Quote:
and people argue whether Mountain Lions even exist here
I can assure you, they do. I have a picture my dad took a about 10 years ago of one in the background at mount magazine. they didnt even know it was there until after the photo got developed.
I have had black bear in my backyard (admittedly my place is deep in the woods) and seen a mountain lion crossing the county road. No house cat is that big, nor bobcat, either. Nor do bobcats have such long tails.

[Balrog]

Black bears and mountain lions, blah...

I am pretty sure I saw Sasquatch in my backyard one night.

[stango]

Anyone believe in Bear Spray ?

[Nematocyst]

Anyone believe in Bear Spray ? Believe in it for what (http://images.smarter.com/blogs/grizzly.jpg)?

[Bill_5]

When my wife and I went backpacking in Wrangell St. Elias in Alaska a couple of years ago I carried a short barrel 12 ga pump with slugs in a leather scabbard lashed to my pack. When I trained for the hike on my farm, I carried the full pack with the scabbard/shotgun and practiced drawing it every half mile or so. Then I would hike with it held barrel up in one hand (leaving the other hand free for a hiking pole) until I could carry the shotgun that way for at least a mile.

So for grizzlies, I carry a 12 ga, bear spray, and a knowledge of how to avoid run-ins with bears. (And that shotgun seems a little iffy for a grizzly.)

For black bears, I just bought a Taurus 444 Multi (ultralight 44 mag, 4" barrel).

Just my choices.

Bill_5

[Bill_5]

Since in a surprise encounter with a bear, most charges are bluff charges, I think that bear spray is the better choice over shooting.

If, however, you are being stalked, or a bear enters your tent, it's time to grab the gun.

Just my opinion.

Bill_5

[crunch14]

Bill 5... what good will the bear spray do if the wind is coming towards you? A face full of pepper spray would be highly undesireable in my opinion. 4" GP100 for me loaded with CORBON 200grn hardcast.

[medmo]

Hope for the best and prepare for the worst. My boondocks sidearm is a S&W M29 with a 3" bbl. Find a holster that will fit on the waist strap of your pack. It makes toting the extra weight easier than strapping it on your pants belt. I think 357 mag or 10mm would be acceptable for black bear. The Glock G29 is a small light weight 10mm. It might be a good option for an extended multi-day wilderness area hike. If that was my option I would check out the Buffalo Bore loaded ammo for 10mm. Bear spray is good for bears that enjoy their meals with a little spicey kick.

[carebear]

Balrog,

I'm with you on utterly unrealistic fears of bears and such, but for some of us the risk is real and an additional pound or 3, even over multi-day treks, is as much rational insurance as a sat. phone or SPOT device.

Yes, most people over-estimate risk, but they will learn once they have to haul the damn thing. But that's their problem and doesn't need preemptive derision.

[mjb]

In the mountains of south eastern Kentucky I carry a Colt Delta Elite 10mm

[Water Garden]

44 special (revolver)

[sebtool]

Anyone believe in Bear Spray ?
Deodorant? :) Mebbe a nice marinade to make you taste a little spicier....

Seriously tho, I just ordered a holster from Simply Rugged out of Alaska. They also have a chest harness called the Chesty Puller (OORAH!) that Rob Leahy, the owner developed for, obviously, carrying your pistol on your chest. He says it's turned into his favorite way to carry a decent sized pistol while back packing, and I can see how it could be an extemely easy way to do that. It would make carrying a 6" .44 pretty comfortable and out of the way.

BTW, my knock around gun is a 4" GP100 loaded with 158 gr. hard cast. Good for any sized bear, hog, cougar or meth head found in my area:) Though I just picked up a .44 spl that's a whole lot lighter.... we'll have to see about that 1!

BTW denfoote - NICE 28!

[m2steven]

Just a note about McKitrick Canyon. I've been there and it's beautiful. Didn't see anything but birds and bugs and cactus. But it's certainly a wonderful place as is all of Guadalupe Park.

[AH-1]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v238/txpete/holster002.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v238/txpete/ruger45002.jpg

ruger accusport 5 1/2 45 colt bisley.some heavy swc and ruger only loads you won't have a problem if you do your part.

pete

[makarovnik]

Kel-Tec sub 2000 in .40 S&W. It folds down to 17" and fits into a backpack. I guess for a handgun I'd like at least a .357 or possibly a .44.

[Southern Shooter]

Here is my backcountry sidearm. My Ruger SRH Alaskan .454 Casull loaded with 360 grain hard-cast at about 1050 FPS. The rig is a Diamond D Custom Leather Guide's Choice Chest Holster. Makes it easy to reach the gun no matter what activity I am involved in.

152583

[shep854]

Southern Shooter, what's it for--gators or skeeters?:p

[Southern Shooter]

Loading up a .45 caliber bullet with snake shot can be wicked on skeeters. Ha Ha

Down here in our lovely Southern states I just load up 260 grain hard-cast at about 950-1,000 FPS. No need for the real big stuff here unless I am looking to encounter some HUGE hogs.

The gun really shoots easy with those rounds.

[shep854]

Oh, yes. I had forgotten about the piggies.

[Leathermarshmallow]

How about one of those AK 47 style pistols, 30 shots of 7.62x39 is probably going to ruin any animal's day.

[Deputy25]

Usually my 4 inch M29.

[AZ Desertrat]

Probably a Ruger Blackhawk. I carry my .41 mag with 6.5 inch barrel when I do such activities.

[S.B.]

I think anyone who advices a .22 should get outside(rough terrain mountains ie) more? By the way I really like those pics you guys post!
Steve

[Vern Humphrey]

I'm out all the time. My place is almost all wooded, miles from town (and 3/4 of a mile from the nearest gravel road. There are bears -- I've got photographs of bears in my "backyard" -- the wooded area behind the house.

And I carry a Colt Woodsman.

[S.B.]

Vern, bears as in(blacks I would suppose)? Didn't mean to hit a nerve. My post was directed more at people in Alaska. Sorry
Steve

[Vern Humphrey]

Yep, we only have blackies here.

But yesterday, I ran into a pack of feral dogs, five of them. I got two with my Colt Woodsman, and I expect the rest of that pack is in the next county by now.

[PRM]

Calling all mountain men: Best Sidearm for remote hiking or backpacking

I'm partial to my Signature Series Colt Walker, although I recently bought a Uberti 1858 New Army in SS that really shines.

I also have a Pedersoli side by side .20 gauge Howdah that's pretty sweet. I keep it loaded with a .60 patched round ball and #4 buck shot on top of that.

If we are talking more modern side arms, I have a 3rd Generation Colt SAA in .45LC/.45 ACP and custom built Colt Bisley with elephant ivory grips in 44 Special (my favorite).

[Jeb21]

I would be sorely tempted to take the Sig but I would ultimately take the p22 becaus of the weight issue.

[Dr_2_B]

I got two with my Colt Woodsman

Vern, I'd enjoy reading a post on that.

[S.B.]

shirt, any hunter worth his salt knows instant stops are possible with CNS hits???? Please do some research before making statements such as this?
Steve