TonyB
April 6, 2003, 09:52 AM
Can you give a check list of things to look for in used autos like you did for the revolvers??thanks,I've been looking at a used 1911,but I have NO expeirence w/ them so I don't know what to look for.:cool:
ATTN:Jim March....used autos....
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Jim March
April 6, 2003, 10:13 PM
First problem, I'm not qualified to do so.
Second problem, it appears nobody else is either. Or rather, it appears to be impossible to create one checklist for ALL slideguns. There's too many differences between different types, or at least that's what I was told when I asked on the old TFL auto handgun forum. I was basically told that you could do one procedure for, say, Glocks and another for 1911 types, but not one for all.
Dang. I mean, the revolver checkout list will work on almost anything going back to the old Colt Patterson of 1836, 'cept maybe for some really weird stuff like the Mateba :). Even then, most stuff will work (timing checks, etc).
Second problem, it appears nobody else is either. Or rather, it appears to be impossible to create one checklist for ALL slideguns. There's too many differences between different types, or at least that's what I was told when I asked on the old TFL auto handgun forum. I was basically told that you could do one procedure for, say, Glocks and another for 1911 types, but not one for all.
Dang. I mean, the revolver checkout list will work on almost anything going back to the old Colt Patterson of 1836, 'cept maybe for some really weird stuff like the Mateba :). Even then, most stuff will work (timing checks, etc).
cratz2
April 7, 2003, 12:04 AM
I'll put in my $.02 of advice though I'm sure I'm less qualified than the unqualified Mr. March. ;)
If it's a 1911, and it usually is, I first veryify it is unloaded. Look closely as the round sits very far into the assembly and ammo can be dirty and dark - be sure you can see daylight through the barrel. I usually do a press check (if possible) and note how easily the slide goes back. I rack the slide back and make sure the slide stays back on the empty mag. While holding the slide back, I press the slide stop and make sure that allows the slide to fall down - this is not the same as dropping the slide, just the tension goes from the stop to my left hand. Leaving the hammer back, I'll slowly rack the slide four or five times seeing if there is any hangup anywhere along the travel. There are lots of frames out there with slides mounted that were not originally shipped with them.
If you're in an unfamiliar store, ask if you can dry fire it a couple times and do a safety check. They should not have a problem with this if it is a centerfire pistol worth less than $1,500 or so. The hammer should be cocked now, making sure the grip safety is depressed, firmly pull the trigger while aiming at the floor or in another relatively safe direction but this pull should be a defensive type pull. I usually try this type of pull twice. Then I'll do a couple of slow deliberate pulls trying to notice how much takeup and creep there is. Has this pistol had a trigger job, either professional or kitchen table? Then the safety check.
There are resources for more thorough checks but what I do is I'll cock the hammer and pull the trigger firmly without engaging grip safety. The hammer should not fall. I'll engage the grip safety and drop the trigger and repeat without engaging the grip safety again. Then I will flip the thumb safety up. Engaging the grip safety, pull the trigger firmly back, as far as it will go, then release the trigger. Now, with your finger off the trigger, push the thumb safety down. Again, the hammer should not fall. If all is going well, as if you can drop the slide a couple times. Again, within reason, this shouldn't be a problem. Retract the slide, ensure it stays back and while ensuring the grip safety is engaged, drip the slide by depressing the slide stop. The hammer should not fall. Then repeat the test. Your finger should not be on the trigger during this test. There is also a disconnector test that I usually do not do. It involves cocking the hammer, pushing the slide about 1/2" back and pulling the trigger. While doing this, ease the slide forward. The hammer should not fall until the slide is completely or very very nearly completely forward into battery.
Though slide to frame fit matters relatively little to accuracy and can be a detriment to reliability, esp in lower cost guns, I usually make a note of how little or much the slide moves relative to the frame both back towards the hammer and just above the dust cover. Also, with the hammer cocked, see how much play there is in the exposed portion of the barrel through the ejection port. As little as possible is good. Then (this one violates one of the safety rules) with the hammer still cocked, try to move the barrel around in the bushing and the bushing around in the slide. Again, as little movement as possible is generally good.
Generally, I'll take the slide off the frame, asking for the allen wrench if a FLGR is installed and make a quick note of how bad the machine markings are. Make a note of how hard it is to turn the barrel bushing. Also, note how dirty the gun is inside and if the feed ramp and throad seem to have been polished. Often, a bit of polishing goes a long way but it's not really hard to screw them up. I've bought a couple guns that were obviously a gunsmiths first attempt or maybe a really bad gunsmiths 10th or 15th attempt. A bit of grime is OK in my opinion, but I don't like to see a thick layer of dust. Bad markings won't stop me from buying the gun, but may cause me to try to talk the price down.
Make a note of the general condition of the finish, inside and out. Is there any pitting or actual rusting? Are there any areas where the finish is completely worn through? Only you can decide if these are acceptable but again, these can lead to talking the price down. Sometimes significantly. A economy parkerizing job will run at least $40 plus shipping if required. A blue job will be closer to $100.
Apply as many of these ideas as applicable to the gun you're looking at. Keeping in mind certain guns have lifetime warranties. By the way, is the warranty card still in the box or with the gun?
Hope this helps.
If it's a 1911, and it usually is, I first veryify it is unloaded. Look closely as the round sits very far into the assembly and ammo can be dirty and dark - be sure you can see daylight through the barrel. I usually do a press check (if possible) and note how easily the slide goes back. I rack the slide back and make sure the slide stays back on the empty mag. While holding the slide back, I press the slide stop and make sure that allows the slide to fall down - this is not the same as dropping the slide, just the tension goes from the stop to my left hand. Leaving the hammer back, I'll slowly rack the slide four or five times seeing if there is any hangup anywhere along the travel. There are lots of frames out there with slides mounted that were not originally shipped with them.
If you're in an unfamiliar store, ask if you can dry fire it a couple times and do a safety check. They should not have a problem with this if it is a centerfire pistol worth less than $1,500 or so. The hammer should be cocked now, making sure the grip safety is depressed, firmly pull the trigger while aiming at the floor or in another relatively safe direction but this pull should be a defensive type pull. I usually try this type of pull twice. Then I'll do a couple of slow deliberate pulls trying to notice how much takeup and creep there is. Has this pistol had a trigger job, either professional or kitchen table? Then the safety check.
There are resources for more thorough checks but what I do is I'll cock the hammer and pull the trigger firmly without engaging grip safety. The hammer should not fall. I'll engage the grip safety and drop the trigger and repeat without engaging the grip safety again. Then I will flip the thumb safety up. Engaging the grip safety, pull the trigger firmly back, as far as it will go, then release the trigger. Now, with your finger off the trigger, push the thumb safety down. Again, the hammer should not fall. If all is going well, as if you can drop the slide a couple times. Again, within reason, this shouldn't be a problem. Retract the slide, ensure it stays back and while ensuring the grip safety is engaged, drip the slide by depressing the slide stop. The hammer should not fall. Then repeat the test. Your finger should not be on the trigger during this test. There is also a disconnector test that I usually do not do. It involves cocking the hammer, pushing the slide about 1/2" back and pulling the trigger. While doing this, ease the slide forward. The hammer should not fall until the slide is completely or very very nearly completely forward into battery.
Though slide to frame fit matters relatively little to accuracy and can be a detriment to reliability, esp in lower cost guns, I usually make a note of how little or much the slide moves relative to the frame both back towards the hammer and just above the dust cover. Also, with the hammer cocked, see how much play there is in the exposed portion of the barrel through the ejection port. As little as possible is good. Then (this one violates one of the safety rules) with the hammer still cocked, try to move the barrel around in the bushing and the bushing around in the slide. Again, as little movement as possible is generally good.
Generally, I'll take the slide off the frame, asking for the allen wrench if a FLGR is installed and make a quick note of how bad the machine markings are. Make a note of how hard it is to turn the barrel bushing. Also, note how dirty the gun is inside and if the feed ramp and throad seem to have been polished. Often, a bit of polishing goes a long way but it's not really hard to screw them up. I've bought a couple guns that were obviously a gunsmiths first attempt or maybe a really bad gunsmiths 10th or 15th attempt. A bit of grime is OK in my opinion, but I don't like to see a thick layer of dust. Bad markings won't stop me from buying the gun, but may cause me to try to talk the price down.
Make a note of the general condition of the finish, inside and out. Is there any pitting or actual rusting? Are there any areas where the finish is completely worn through? Only you can decide if these are acceptable but again, these can lead to talking the price down. Sometimes significantly. A economy parkerizing job will run at least $40 plus shipping if required. A blue job will be closer to $100.
Apply as many of these ideas as applicable to the gun you're looking at. Keeping in mind certain guns have lifetime warranties. By the way, is the warranty card still in the box or with the gun?
Hope this helps.
Jim March
April 7, 2003, 01:43 AM
Not a bad start. Suggestion for Cratz2: re-post this with a fresh title in the semi-auto handgun forum, and add more details on the unloading process and how the "press check" works. Write it for a REAL newbie who's buying for the first time. You might want to take a picture of a 1911 and add in text and pointers to the various parts?
What you've got here is good, you're about 80% - 90% there.
With luck others will do more on Glocks and whatever.
What you've got here is good, you're about 80% - 90% there.
With luck others will do more on Glocks and whatever.
TonyB
April 8, 2003, 07:07 AM
That's awesome....I'm going tomarrow to check one out so I'll print this and bring it...thanks:D
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