Felony Stop


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GoBrush
December 18, 2005, 11:43 PM
I would be interested in any LEO out there on this situation.

Last week I was in my car with my wife and noticed abunch of cars stopped in the middle of the road with one police car in the middle of them with lights on it was an unmarked car. (thought this was an accident) When we where closing on the group of cars realized it was a full blown felony stop. 3 unmarked cars 2 bad guys in one car being stopped.

Since I was traveling the same direction as the BG car and the 3 unmarked cars and more importantly the 3 officers making the stop had 3 guns pointed at the bad guys I stopped the car dead in the lane left and rear side said officers cars. I figured I was safer behind than driving through the kill zone.

Some dumb "women" behind me and totaly clueless got ticked at me honked her horn and went between my car and the out side police car:banghead: . Still thinking I was safer behind the officers I wedged my car into the only open lane of traffic and the unmarked car on the outside. The only way people could get around this mess was to go into the center lane all the way around me. I figured if someone was dumb enough to pass that it was pushing them further from the problem. I just sat in the car with my wife until the episode was over. By the way I really thought they were going to shoot this guy as he was getting out of the car he dipped down and picked something up on the floor but got smart and dropped it.

It was nice seeing the bad guy face down in the snow.

OK

1. Did I do the right thing?
2. Should I have done anything different?

By the way nice restraint on the officers part.

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Jim K
December 19, 2005, 12:03 AM
I think you did the right thing in trying to stay away from the incident, but it would have been better to pick up on it before you were close enough to see what the BG was doing. In other words, take action to avoid the scene instead of closing on it.

It isn't always possible, but the best thing to do is to spot the problem early and turn off into a parking lot, another road, or stop off the travelled part of the road until things settle down. That is true whether the situation is an accident, a police stop, a fire or whatever. Whatever is going down, the authorities don't need you or your car in the middle of things. (This is true even if you are a LEO, EMT or whatever. Just be a plain citizen unless you see a real need for your presence. The last thing cops on the scene need is some strange LEO or armed citizen charging up waving a gun.)

If you can't get off the road, stop in your lane as far back as possible, and put on your flashers to show you have stopped deliberately and are concerned for safety, not just stopped to gawk. Lock your doors and keep down below the window level as much as possible without losing sight of the problem area. Keep your passengers down also. In a bad situation, there is always the possibility that a BG or a LEO could let off a round in your direction, or that a BG might get away and try to carjack your vehicle.

Jim

GoBrush
December 19, 2005, 12:11 AM
[QUOTE=Jim Keenan] The last thing cops on the scene need is some strange LEO or armed citizen charging up waving a gun.)

Didnt say anything about waving a gun didnt even have one with me.

Your right though I would have stopped further back if I would have realized what was happening.

VARifleman
December 19, 2005, 12:16 AM
In a bad situation, there is always the possibility that a BG or a LEO could let off a round in your direction, or that a BG might get away and try to carjack your vehicle.

Jim
Problem with that is that most rounds will go through anything but the engine of the car with no problem what so ever. Best to get away from the situation quickly than sit around it.

Jim K
December 19, 2005, 12:17 AM
I didn't mean that you did or would do that, it was just a general comment on the situation. I frequently see on this and other sites people saying that when/if they get a CCW they will "help the police" or "capture bad guys." Not swift.

The problem with "getting away" is that it needs to be done in such a way as not to lead the police to think you are an accomplice trying to flee the scene. Seeing a police stop, then making an abrupt "Uey" to speed away attracts attention and you could come under suspicion.

Jim

GoBrush
December 19, 2005, 12:22 AM
Now that I think of it maybe I should have just done a U turn and gotten out of there?

Illuminaughty
December 19, 2005, 05:58 AM
I can't believe you'd stop and sit there... to avoid gunfire? Man, you just made yourself suspect to the police and upped your chances of getting hit in a firefight. If you DO notice it that late, speed up, don't slow down! That way you'll only have a few seconds of being in a potential firefight, rather than however long you ended up waiting. :eek:

ingram
December 19, 2005, 06:59 AM
I would have liked to give a talking to the lady who honked at you.

People are too loose with the horn these days, and in too much of a hurry to get to where they are headed. Anything that might have made the LEO's or even the bad guys jumpy is not something you want to do, especially when she is so close to YOU in particular. I don't see how she could not have noticed what was going on, you make it sound quite obvious and apparent. I'm sure wherever she was headed was less important than the felony arrest. Oh well, bang the head =(. At least YOU were thinking clearly.

I think you dealed with the situation well. Let LEO's do their jobs, and when you see them at it, stay clear out of the way (Or as best as the situation provides). Good job.

Oldtimer
December 19, 2005, 09:03 AM
#1: Since you were able to see what was going on well before you ran into one of the unmarked police vehicles, it sounds like the officers had deployed both properly and safely....so there was NO need for you to assist by using your vehicle as an additional blockade. Add to that, by stopping your vehicle behind the unmarked police vehicles that had flashing emergency lights, you put yourself in jeopardy of being rear-ended by a "lookie-loo" driver who was watching the flashing lights!

#2: You were close enough to see the actions of the suspect? You were TOO close! If a shoot-out ensued, you might have become an innocent bystander "victim"! Looking at it in a different way, if the suspect was somehow able to run from the officers, you might have become a car-jack victim!

#3: The police see you stopped in your vehicle.
It's POSSIBLE that they might look upon you as an accomplice, and your vehicle positioning might be suspected as being as a "lay-off shooter". I know that may sound like I'm stretching it a bit, and I am, but....strange things happen nowadays!

I was off-duty and drove into a similar situation as yours several years ago. I didn't want to drive past the incident, but I figured that a U-turn would put me a bit closer to what was going on. I checked my rear view mirror and safely backed up to a safe distance AND pulled to the curb. Had the situation gone sideways, I had my cell phone ready, and would have called for assistance. I would have also been able to render aid, if necessary, but I wasn't about to wade into the situation without knowing what the officers had. Basically, my position was that as an "observer", and even an unarmed citizen can do that....without jeopardizing themselves.

Mark IV
December 19, 2005, 10:48 AM
Problem with that is that most rounds will go through anything but the engine of the car with no problem what so ever. Best to get away from the situation quickly than sit around it.

You are absolutely correct.

http://www.roygetz.com/texascops.html

DorGunR
December 19, 2005, 11:38 AM
I would be interested in any LEO out there on this situation.

WOW...........I didn't know we had this many LEO's here.

BHPshooter
December 19, 2005, 11:49 AM
Some dumb "women" behind me and totaly clueless got ticked at me honked her horn and went between my car and the out side police car .

Yep, that sounds like a typical Utah driver.

When/where did this all go down? I don't recall seeing or hearing anything on the news about it.

Wes

TallPine
December 19, 2005, 05:10 PM
We got a call for a vehicle fire about a mile from my house some time back. I got there first of course and found a 1-ton truck torching in the narrow gravel road. I sure wasn't about to drive past it in order to get to the fire hall.

So I parked in the middle of the road with my flashers on, and started fighting the resultant grass fire with a shovel. While I was doing that, at least two private vehicles squeezed past my pickup and went past the burning truck :rolleyes:

It never did kaboom except for the rear tires blowing up, but one never knows... I guess there are no limits to stupidity.

We are a wildland unit and we're not supposed to go close to a burning vehicle without bunker gear which we don't have.

c_yeager
December 19, 2005, 05:23 PM
I can't believe you'd stop and sit there... to avoid gunfire? Man, you just made yourself suspect to the police and upped your chances of getting hit in a firefight. If you DO notice it that late, speed up, don't slow down! That way you'll only have a few seconds of being in a potential firefight, rather than however long you ended up waiting.

The problem is that you have no idea when the shooting could start, and the one place you dont want to be is downrange of the cops. That is where the preponderance of the bullets will be coming from, and they will be amassing a pretty sizable area. The best place to be in that situation is behind the cops, prefferable by a few miles.

cz75bdneos22
December 19, 2005, 05:58 PM
:o i also would like some member's LEO opinions...here's my story...
a Friend of mine works at a car dealership as a salesman...
as he was taking a dealership car on a test drive out of the back lot... a police cruiser pulled him over on a side street...
officer asks him to step outside with LIc & registration...the car was obviously marked as a dealership car, etc.
Friend steps outside the car and hands over his license...officer takes it and goes to criuser to check on it..meanwhile, Friend takes out his cellphone and calls the office manager to report he has been pulled over and why he hasn't arrived in the front of the dealership..officer sees this thru rear-view mirror and immediately approaches Friend with batton drawn and commands my Friend to put the phone down "who the hell are you calling?"..my friend is taking too long to finish his call aparently and the officer proceeds to whack him with the batton...My Friend naturally raises his forearm to shield his head from getting whacked by the batton...Officer then, restrains him and handcuffs him and takes him to jail...this unfolding of events was overheard over the phone by the manager before getting cut off the line by the phone going to the ground...we have to bail him out after an aggravating run around at the police station...Officer said he was resisting arrest, thats why he took him in...for what?:mad: for making a phone call. Come on...after the humiliation of being arrested, jailed (24 hours) and paying unecessary money($325 in bail)...i was pissed.:cuss: Now, he's got to go bak to court...anyways!!
later, i was going over WWYD if it was me...all i could say to my friend was that he should have gone to the front of the cruiser while the officer was doing the check so that the on-board camera could have recorded the incident..otherwise, it's his word against the SOB officer...I also told him to file a letter of complaint against the officer involved...i think he went over the line....but YMMV...if it was me, which it wasn't, let me be clear...this Man (officer) would not go without a consequence...he has injured/offended me and i cannot conscientiously allow this to go...He has a badge that protects him but this is above the "law" in my view...what goes around..comes around...BTW, i have Friends at Federal and State law Enforcement Agencies, as well as family members in the Military. This is just for your information and to learn from our experience...It could help you if you everfind yourself/friends in this predicament..thanks.

QuickDraw
December 19, 2005, 09:25 PM
officer sees this thru rear-view mirror

Why was the cop car in FRONT of your friend?
Everytime I've been pulled over(been awhile now)
the cop was behind me.

Things that make ya go..Hmmmm.

QuickDraw

cz75bdneos22
December 19, 2005, 09:33 PM
Why was the cop car in FRONT of your friend?
Everytime I've been pulled over(been awhile now)
the cop was behind me.

Things that make ya go..Hmmmm.

QuickDraw

YMMV...Sir, i described the events as they happened...neither you, nor I were at the scene...however, it is obvious this particular officer was not acting right since the begginning of the case...again,i was not there in situ... he (officer) could have had a bad day, be under the influence of a controlled substance, etc, etc...or what you don't think police officers are subject to these indiscretions..that's why i say YMMV..i am no fool. and can draw my own conclusions thank you...still, i welcome all input as we can all learn from this..i hope. this is not the end of the story...:eek:

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