[Tomcat1066]

I've decided I want to get me a project gun, something to build on and tweak. One of the pawn shops in town has a Llama 1911 for $200 that seems to be in pretty good shape. What I'd like to do is use this as my project gun.

However, I only know one person who has a Llama and they love thiers. I need to know what all kinds of problems I could expect out of this gun. In particular, how good is the metal for the frame and slide? Those are the only parts I don't really think I can replace.

Thanks in advance!

Tom

[Mad Magyar]

Since I've had a Llama or two, both in .45, I might speak up on it. It depends on the model, if it is mini (more negative reports on this one), and whether it has been tampered (Bubba at work) with. Below you will see a posting of mine some time ago & an answer from a Gunsmith referring to a question similar to yours. Personally, my present Llama IX-A is reliable as my other .45's, but I only use Skeeter's favorite: 230 FMJ. It has NEVER jammed, not once and I take it to the range regularly. How about some pic's and maybe we can give a more definitive answer..BTW, $200 is a good price, but offer a little less and see what happens.... Yes, Llama is out of business but parts are plentiful: try this site:
http://www.bersa-llama.com/warranty.html& GunParts (Numrich)

Picked up an old gun magazine at a garage sale, Guns/Ammo, Oct/1984 and noticed a Q/A section to the Gunsmith, Garry James. After defending one's Llama from these "yahoos" who without any knowledge, firsthand, or otherwise who just pickup on misinformed info on the internet calling Llamas: "POS", "You get what you pay for", ad nauseaum well, you heard & read all the put-downs. This was the Gunsmith's answer from a reader asking about a .45 Llama with the Stoeger address.
ANSWER:
"Your Llama is an excellent M-1911 Colt copy. I had one myself for a number of years and was quite pleased with it. In fact, Llama started making these guns, as the Model IX, in 1936. There have been a few minor modifications since then, but the quality remains. Currently Llama offers the Model IXA in 9mm and .45 caliber. Magazines are available from Triple K in San Diego, Ca."
BTW, my IXA shoots as good as my "respected" .45's, no problems....
http://tinypic.com/iw7y9d.jpg

[Tomcat1066]

Thanks for the info. This one doesn't APPEAR to have been Bubbaed up. I'm not sure about the model on it, but it's fairly old while still in good shape. A buddy of mine is a regular at this shop as asked if they would go lower and they told him they couldn't. They work with him more than they do me, so I feel it's safe to assume the $200 is firm.

Thanks again for the info.

Tom

[M2 Carbine]

Tom, some time ago I bought a new Llama Mini Max 45 for an extra 45 to use as a car gun, barn gun, whatever. It was nothing but trouble.
I finally "gave" it away at a gun show.

There are a couple gun brands that I would not accept if they were given to me for free, Llama is one of them.

[Tomcat1066]

Thanks for the input M2, but what kind of problems were you having specifically? A buddy of mine has a Llama and after using Chip McCormick magazines and replacing the recoil spring, he's had nothing but good out of it. I'm wondering if you had the same problems he did before he replaced those items.

Tom

[1911 guy]

I owned one about ten years ago but got rid of it when the rollpin holding the external extractor broke. That confirmed a long held suspicion of the superiority of internal extractors.

[Puppy]

You might want to reconsider choosing a Llama as a project build.

Alot of the parts are not interchangable with standard 1911 parts.

[Tomcat1066]

Thanks for the heads up guys!

Tom

[osteodoc08]

If you are strictly looking for a budget 1911 to work on, may I suggest a full size RIA. They are a very true to design pistol. I bought the Officer's size about 6 months ago. It went bang every time I pulled the trigger, with the exception of a few stove pipes that I fixed by tweaking the extractor. I also had problems with the slide staying back with rounds still in the magazine but using the factory mag gave me no problems, just the CM shooting star mags. However, I must admit the hammer bite was bad for my large hands. I then put in a drop in beaver tail, hammer, sear, disconnect and got SS thumb safety and slide stop. The only thing that needed a little work was the beavertail. Everything else went right in.

The only problem I have now is that I can never seem to shoot it enough. It is a tough call when I go shooting because the WWB ammo is almost 2x that of the 9mm WWB ammo for my P89.

Next up is a set of new sights and I'm going to Gun Kote it.

[Tomcat1066]

I know where I can get a Rock Island for about $300 (priced at $350). If it isn't new, it might as well be. There's no wear anywhere on the pistol. I might just have to go that route.

Thanks! ;)

Tom

[WarMachine]

I would certainly consider a RIA or used GI from Springfield before the Llama is it's going to be a project gun. Better metal quality and better parts interchangeablity...

[M2 Carbine]

Thanks for the input M2, but what kind of problems were you having specifically? A buddy of mine has a Llama and after using Chip McCormick magazines and replacing the recoil spring, he's had nothing but good out of it. I'm wondering if you had the same problems he did before he replaced those items.

Tom

Tom, the gun didn't look bad but it seemed the metal was too soft.
I have several 1911 compacts so I have the usual assortment of magazines. The best I've found are Wilson.
But anyhow some of the problems I had were jams feeding different bullet styles, JHP.
The slide catch and thumb safety was poorly made and wouldn't move normally.
The ejected brass hit me in the forehead.
Etc,

All in all the gun wasn't worth my time and trouble. I couldn't trust it as a car or barn defense gun and I have some nice range guns that I can't seem to find time to shoot, so (for me) a gun that has too many issues isn't worth space in the gun safe.

[Tomcat1066]

Thanks M2. That's what I was most worried about. That, coupled with the compatibility issues mentioned earlier, and I really don't think I want to take my chances. Sure, it's only $200, but I can snag that one later just for my own trial ;) I'd rather get one that I can trust to work the the parts I will want to replace :D

Thanks everyone!

Tom

[Snowdog]

I had a Llama Minimax in .45acp for a couple years. One of its virtues was reliability (which is uncommon of many Llamas from what I've heard). Though it primarily saw FMJ, it also saw a few of the more popular defensive "premium" JHPs which fed well.

There were only 2 problems with the pistol, with one being ejected cases impacting the shooter's forehead and the second being less-than-decent accuracy.

For a glovebox gun, it served well... but it's since been replace by a Rock Island full-size 1911, a far superior firearm in my opinion (and a steal at $279/NIB from SOG).

You might want to find a nearby pawn shop that holds an FFL with acceptable fees (mine charges a flat $10 for any gun shipped in) and look into the RIA/Twin Pines 1911 if you're looking for 1911-platform to work on.