[Boats]

One of the latest liberal dogmas I have been noticing over the Second Gulf War is the notion of the "economic draftee," to describe how the typical enlisted serviceman or woman "had to" join the military to "escape" the economic doldrums of their youth, thereby being disproportionately represented in the ranks viz-a-viz their non-serving pacifistic creampuff counterparts. This "theory" has a thin veneer of reasonable language smeared over it, covering the fact that it all but says that the enlisted ranks are composed of people who'd otherwise be in reform school, prison, on welfare, or at best, in community college while working McDonalds.

By extension, this line of reasoning implies that everyone who graduates high school wishes to go to college irrespective of money, smarts, or interest. Furthermore, it denies that anyone might actually consider the armed services a viable career choice in its own right. Certainly, not eveyone in the enlisted ranks is "college material" but most have enough potential, and more importantly, enough character, to get where they want to go in life, again, unlike many of the youths protesting against their profession. Since when was college for everyone anyway?

In 1984, I was a junior in high school. Despite doing well, I could not imagine the next four or five years being spent in school. That winter, I applied to both the University of Oregon and Oregon State University and was accepted, covering the bases for relatively cheap tuition. I also applied to William & Mary and was accepted there. As W&M is on the opposite coast, it was my wanderlust choice. However, I was still stricken by the malaise about continuing my education.

Some kids in that position have the folks send them off abroad for a summer to "find themselves." Though I could've gone to college, I could not go jetsetting on the cheap as my parents had to also help my two younger brothers get to college. I joined the Navy instead, over the objections of my mother, signing when I was eighteen. I didn't hold out for any "skills," to the disappointment of my recruiter. I told him I wanted to live the ads and get on a ship as rapidly as possible that would go places while my "profession" as a sailor would take care of itself OTJ. I eventually became a Boatswain's Mate, making E-5 in just three years, and was based on a destroyer out of Pearl Harbor Hawaii my entire term after boot.:neener:

I am now an attorney, having had the discipline and the funds to finance seven years of college after getting out. I only found out I wanted to be an attorney after trying to deal with the bureaucracy of the Navy and sort of acting as a defense counsel at Captain's Mast for some of my friends who ran afoul of the UCMJ.:D Even after I had sorted out that I'd like to go to college after all, I came within a whisker of re-enlisting as I could also see one of two other paths happening. First, my XO had chatted me up about going to college at the University of Hawaii while serving and eventually becoming a mustang, as a limited duty officer. Second, failing that, I'd have probably been a Chief in four more years or so. Anyways, I was genuinely torn.

Thanks USN, I almost made it a career. I did make it a good part of my identity and an experience I would never trade for anything else I could have done with those four years. Everyone who knew me before said it was one of the best things I ever did for myself.

"Had to," my ever-loving foot. If there is anything I have to do, it is to continue castigating ninnies who proffer such claptrap as the truth of the matter.

(edited for a more apt title and an omitted word here and there.)

[Hypnogator]

They had some crap about that the other night on the West Wing. How some congresspuke from NY was holding up good liberal legislation trying to reinstate the draft so rich kids would share the dangers of the economically challenged.:barf:

To their credit, they did present the other side of the coin -- the military as opportunity that many kids wouldn't have otherwise.

Still, calling it an "economic draft" is a load of, well, you know.

I was struck by the real draft back in '71. Dodged it the hard way -- I enlisted.:D

Trouble was, once I got in, took me over 20 years to figure out how to get out. Just slow, I guess! :D :D :D

[Standing Wolf]

Frankly, I think it would make sense for all young Americans to spend a year or two in service to the nation. The draft as it was practiced in my day—I signed up in 1966—was fair to no one, and certainly not to the nation.

[Backwoods]

Hypnogator

I dodged the draft the same way, figured I'd rather go to small arms school at Aberdeen Proving ground and spend the next 2.5 years fixing weapons. The other choice was to let them draft me and let them choose what they wanted me to do.

As far as this thread goes, in 1970, there were few college slots open for "poor" people because being in college would get you a deferment from the draft. The colleges were stuffed with people who didn't want to go to war and had the money or influence to secure a place. Many of these same people are the type rife in the previous Presidents administration and (unfortunatly) teaching our children.

Our all volunteer Armed Forces are a far cry above the general average draftee of the 60s and early 70s. You had to be a pretty poor specimen, physically or mentally, to be safe from the draft.

Having said all this, I have only respect for anyone who served our country with honor, whether they were drafted or enlisted.

Don in Ohio

[Airwolf]

I was one of those with no clear idea of what I was going to do next out of high school. This was '75 and my dad had just gotten out of the Navy a few years before after 30 years (mustang, retired as a Lt.)

I was considering joining. What I had seen as a kid visiting different bases and spending lots of time aboard ship looked very cool.

My dad made it clear in no uncertain terms that joining ANY service at that time was out of the question. While I didn't understand it at the time I did after studying the aftermath of Viet Nam and how screwed our military was left by that debacle. Obviously no one could have seen the positive changes the Reagan years made on the armed forces a few years into the future.

To this day I still have regrets about not following my gut and going through with it.

As for now, my son won't be 18 for a few more years but if things look as good then as they do now I can see myself strongly recommending him putting in a few years. Despite what the liberal morons think, I believe that serving your country in the armed services is a great honor and not some job of last resort.

[PATH]

Economic draftee? What wil those liberal pukes come up with next. Geez, I really dislike those nuts!

[CZ-75]

No one is forcing poor kids to join up. The could collect welfare, instead. :barf:

I'd say that the military is a godsend for these kids, and that a fair number of them had too much pride to go on the dole and wanted to better themselves; the military is the easiest way to do that. Without the military, their future really would be bleak.

[Ian]

Standing Wolf - Speaking as a person at exactly the right age to get drafted, I would like to point out that I happily put a lot of my time and material resources into training for the militia role specified in the Constitution. I will unreservedly defend my state against all enemies, foreign and domestic, in the event of an invasion. I will not, however, volunteer to go fight overseas for the government.

I have the utmost respect for the men who've fought in our military, but I do not believe that our fighting in places like Somalia, Vietnam, Kosovo, and Bosnia have had anything to do with defending this country or its freedom. And I think that being patriotic requires a lot more than a willingness to agree with the government. Refusing to fight in an unconstitutional war is certainly not something to be ashamed of.

[Fair 'n Square]

When World War II broke out, my father working in the "arms plant" helping to make various armaments. I never knew quite what he was working on, because he didn't want to talk about it. Whatever it was, my mother said he worried about an explosion happening. Anyway, his job was part of the war effort, but he didn't get into the military.

But five of my uncles were in it, two in the Navy in the Pacific, and three in the Army (one as a pilot) in Europe. My fondest dream was to follow in their footsteps. But by the time the Viet Nam war started I was classified 4F and had to watch from the sidelines as both my brothers went into the service.

Now I have a son working for the Dept. of Defense and a son-in-law in the Army. I'm so proud of them I could bust!

This war in Iraq is fully justified IMO, both to put down terrorism and also to free the Iraqis from the murderous regime of Saddam, his terrible sons, and their ilk. President Bush made the right decision to send the troops in.

I hope for an early end to this war. I pray for the safety of those Coalition forces fighting it. May they be safe!

May we stay safe too!
Fair 'n Square

[MarkDido]

The "real-life" model for the drek on the "West Wing" was Rep Charles Rangle (D-Somewhere) crying that blacks suffered higher casualties in wars (Vietnam, Gulf War I) than whites.

USA Today did some research and found out that although blacks make up 12% of the U. S. population, they represent 20% of the military BUT only 5% are in combat-related fields. Their research also showed that only 2 - 3% of the combat casualties in Vietnam were suffered by blacks.

Just another liberal attempt to muddy the waters by spewing "non-facts" enough times that people will eventually believe that they are true.

My hat's off to all those on this board who served with honor.

Mark
USN (Ret) - 23 glorious years :)

[XLMiguel]

What a load of ca ca del toro. The military provides a means for better life for many kids who wouldn't have very many prospects in life otherwise. In the process they get to serve their country (and learn the value of service) while developing the self-discipline and perserverence that many would never get at home or on the street, and that may serve them well for the rest of their lives. In addition, by serving in the military you earn your benefits, which is a damn sight better for one's self respect than some welfare handout, and it also makes you value it more because you did earn it, as opposed to just another gimme 'entitlement'. Sheeesh-

The military is also good for a kid who hasn't found him/herself yet or figured out what they want out of life. When I was in the draft was still active (lottery), and I met people I never would have met otherwise and am the better for it. It opened my eyes to a whole 'nother side of life and gave me some experiences that I never would have had otherwise. Some of the firendships I saw formed in basic training were really amazing. People who never would have met or associated otherwise became fast friends. It was truly a liberal education.

[mons meg]

Many of these same people are the type rife in the previous Presidents administration and (unfortunatly) teaching our children.

Or, perhaps, currently inhabit the office of Vice President of the United States? Clinton dodged to be sure, but what's good for the goose...

Also, let's not forget that while Rep. Rangel (D-NY) may not be universally agreed with, he did serve in combat in Korea where he earned a Purple Heart and Bronze Star. I don't agree with him on the draft issue, but you sure won't catach me denigrating another veteran like him out of hand.

[Khornet]

through private high school, Boston College/UMass, then a couple of years of grad school, then somehow got myself into Med school. Loans covered my first 18 mo. but then I was out of dough. The Navy offered me tuition, books, a stipend, in return for year-for-year payback. I never thought of joining the service in my life, but there I was, so I signed. Year-for-year turned into 13 years. Best thing I ever did (well, aside from marrying Mrs. Khornet). Learned a lot, grew up a lot, served my country, met a whole lot of types I'd never have mixed with, and all for the better. I'd do it again in a heartbeat.

Economic draftee? Hell, Uncle Sam got the short end. I benefited way beyond what it cost me, and the benefits have continued the rest of my life. Uncle only had the benefits while I was in. I'm grateful, grateful.

Thanks, Uncle, for the leg up. Hope it was worth it to you.