Two sources report possible nerve gas attack on Russian school.......


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hillbilly
December 20, 2005, 09:12 AM
Hmmm....now who, oh who, could it possibly be that would like to attack a bunch of Russian schoolgirls with nerve gas?

I wonder.......hmmmmm..................

Talk about cracking open the proverbial door to Hell........


First, the Yahoo News link.

http://www.interfax.ru/e/B/0/28.html?id_issue=11437138

Nerve gas may have caused poisoning of schoolgirls in Chechnya
GROZNY. Dec 16 (Interfax) - A group of schoolchildren from the village of Starogladovskaya in Chechnya's Shelkovskaya district have been hospitalized with poisoning, possibly from a nerve agent, said Shelkovskaya district administration head Khusein Nutayev.

"Four girls have been taken to the Grozny clinical hospital. Doctors have so far been unable to make a diagnosis," Nutayev told Interfax on Friday.

"Our doctors have categorically ruled out food poisoning," he said.

"Similar incidents happened earlier in the village of Staroshchedrinskaya, but the causes have never been established," Nutayev said.

"I am firmly convinced that the incident might be the result of poisoning by a nerve agent or psychotropic substance," he said.



Now the other one.


http://www.tkb.org/NewsStory.jsp?storyID=99389

More than 35 hospitalized in Chechnya in suspected nerve-gas poisoning
The Associated Press, Dec. 20, 2005

ROSTOV-ON-DON, Russia

More than 35 people, most of them children, in the Russian republic of Chechnya have been hospitalized with illness that preliminary diagnosis indicates could be nerve-gas poisoning, officials said Tuesday.

The ill include pupils, teachers and workers at a middle school in the town of Starogladovskaya, according to Vladimir Gerasin, a spokesman for the Ministry of Emergency Situations' office for southern Russia.

The first illnesses, including breathing trouble and headaches were reported Friday and as of Tuesday emergency officials said 36 people including 25 children had been affected. Preliminary investigation points to an unspecified kind of nerve gas, said Gerasin and officials of the Chechen administration.

Separatist rebels that have been fighting Russian forces in Chechnya for most of the past decade have committed a series of terrorist attacks in Chechnya and other parts of Russia, including the 2004 seizure of a school in the town of Beslan. That hostage-taking ended in the deaths of 331 people.

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Waitone
December 20, 2005, 09:26 AM
Can't be true. I know for a fact that the most important issue regarding terrorism is Bush spying without warrants. Just consult MSM. :scrutiny:

hillbilly
December 20, 2005, 09:29 AM
Waitone, I didn't want to write it down, but now that you've brought it up....

I'll bet the folks who gassed the Russian schoolgirls are a bunch of Fundamentalist Christians who support Bush and who are really upset about big retailers not saying "Merry Christmas" in their advertisements any more.

That, or they're doing this as strike against Hollywood movies featuring gay sheepherders......

That's who it HAS to be....................


hillbilly

Biker
December 20, 2005, 09:33 AM
Waitone, I didn't want to write it down, but now that you've brought it up....

I'll bet the folks who gassed the Russian schoolgirls are a bunch of Fundamentalist Christians who support Bush and who are really upset about big retailers not saying "Merry Christmas" in their advertisements any more.

That, or they're doing this as strike against Hollywood movies featuring gay sheepherders......

That's who it HAS to be....................


hillbilly
"Gay sheepherders"? You mean that these guys mess with male sheep? OMG! RAM power!
:evil:
Biker

boofus
December 20, 2005, 09:59 AM
TROP - The Religion of Peace

Ezekiel
December 20, 2005, 10:36 AM
I'll bet the folks who gassed the Russian schoolgirls are a bunch of Fundamentalist Christians who support Bush and who are really upset about big retailers not saying "Merry Christmas" in their advertisements any more.

That, or they're doing this as strike against Hollywood movies featuring gay sheepherders......

No, no! How many times must we go through this?

There never was a gasing of students.

It is all a "wag the dog" scenario offered by a coerced press. This is all about drawing attention away from Merry Christmas-gate... :barf:

antarti
December 20, 2005, 11:06 AM
TROP - The Religion of Peace

Recipe for disaster:

Take the blackest part of only the blackest souls, form into small coals
Clarify to remove any impurities: particularly any specs of humanity, decency, mercy, and fear of the Creator
Place under high heat and pressure until translucent
Cut, then polish it to a high luster
Pick an arch-enemy
Rack up impressive body-counts (as a cover for your sniveling cowardice) by going after those who can't or won't fight back

Pawn the resulting "diamonds" off as Socialism, Communism, Nazism, revenge, or religious fervor.

Same poison, different wrapper...

Henry Bowman
December 20, 2005, 11:11 AM
Wal-Mart, the demon corporation de jure, must have been involved. Perhaps these ill-fated "schoolgirls" were actually Wal-Mart employees with inadequate health insurance. :rolleyes:

boofus
December 20, 2005, 11:15 AM
Same poison, different wrapper...

Hey when a band of crazed Jehovah's Witnesses, Buddhists or Mormons assassinates an olympic team or kills 3000 ppl in an office building or shoots a wheelchair bound Jew and tosses him off a boat give me a call.

There is only 1 religion whose followers can claim credit for those incidents I mentioned above.

MechAg94
December 20, 2005, 11:20 AM
Yeah, and the World Trade Center was never actually there. It is a bunch of revisionist history.

Don Gwinn
December 20, 2005, 11:24 AM
This is not a discussion of religion or whose is more peaceful. It also doesn't belong in Legal/Political.

I'm going to put it in General and ask that the discussion from now on center on the issue at hand, namely that terrorists may or may not have attacked a middle school--again--in the area of Chechnya. Turn it into a God-Measuring Contest and I'll have no choice but to close it.

TheEgg
December 20, 2005, 12:38 PM
If this was a terrorist attack, it is curious that no claim of responsibility has yet been made. In the past, these Chechnyan groups have not been bashful.

Could it be some form of accidental chemical exposure instead, that mimicks some form of nerve toxin?

Sindawe
December 20, 2005, 12:57 PM
Could it be some form of accidental chemical exposure instead, that mimicks some form of nerve toxin? Could be. I don't know of chemicals in common usage that mimic nerve agents, but then such is not my area of specialization.

Another possibility is that the Chechnyans realize that use of such agents would bring the full fury of the Russian government down apon thier heads, and that of their people. An unsanctioned action perhaps?

MechAg94
December 20, 2005, 01:04 PM
If it is a terrorist attack, it sounds like a particularly bad one.

MatthewVanitas
December 20, 2005, 01:08 PM
If this was a terrorist attack, it is curious that no claim of responsibility has yet been made. In the past, these Chechnyan groups have not been bashful.

Could it be some form of accidental chemical exposure instead, that mimicks some form of nerve toxin?

I'm going to back TheEgg here. Not because I'm an optimist, or because I doubt the Chechens' drive.

But under Occam's Razor, the simplest explanation would be accidental poisoning: groundwater contamination, grain mold, factory venting, etc.

It's certainly a distinct possibility that it's a terrorist attack, but since we see thousands of chemical spills every year, and have seen very few chemical attacks since the 1980s Iran-Iraq War, odds (and Occam) favor accidental.

But I'll certainly be watching for the story in the news as it develops.

Ezekiel
December 20, 2005, 01:19 PM
But under Occam's Razor, the simplest explanation would be accidental poisoning: groundwater contamination, grain mold, factory venting, etc.

Good call. But two independent sources?

"I have no idea."

Henry Bowman
December 20, 2005, 01:36 PM
Good call. But two independent sources?Actually, it appears to be two reports of a single source of speculation.

Lucky
December 20, 2005, 04:29 PM
Wal-Mart, the demon corporation de jure, must have been involved. Perhaps these ill-fated "schoolgirls" were actually Wal-Mart employees with inadequate health insurance. :rolleyes:

I'd suggest looking for a Union Carbide plant nearby, first:)

It's REALLY likely that the children have been exposed to toxins from Russian industry. This place is enough to make you join Greenpeace. They killed an entire sea, for Pete's sake. Poisoned it, and drained it. An entire sea! Russia has been exposing their population to harmful chemicals for decades, it's part of living there.

Kind of made their 'for the greater good' arguments look a little hollow, but people don't care about facts getting in the way of dogma...

Vern Humphrey
December 20, 2005, 04:45 PM
Quote:
Could it be some form of accidental chemical exposure instead, that mimicks some form of nerve toxin?

Could be. I don't know of chemicals in common usage that mimic nerve agents, but then such is not my area of specialization.

Another possibility is that the Chechnyans realize that use of such agents would bring the full fury of the Russian government down apon thier heads, and that of their people. An unsanctioned action perhaps?

The answer is, yes -- pryrethrins (insecticides) are in fact nerve agents -- the orginal nerve agent, Tabun, was developed by the Nazis after observing the effects of heavy doses of insecticides on humans forced to work under such conditions. Tabun was weaponized as GA, and the follow-on agent, Sarin was weaponized and designated GB. When the war ended, the Nazis were working on weaponizing Soman (GD). The GA facility fell into allied hands, and GA became the standard US agent. The Soviets got the GD facility and that became their standard agent.

There are two very suspicious factors here -- one is that two seperate incidents occurred in the same area, and the second is that the victims are hospitalized, but not dead. So the health problems may well be due to industrial or agricultural chemical contamination.

carebear
December 20, 2005, 05:08 PM
In late but pesticides would be my guess.

Still doesn't address whether it was deliberate exposure or not, but I agree accident (to be CYA blamed on terrs) is most likely.

Mnemesyne
December 20, 2005, 05:13 PM
[QUOTE=hillbilly

That, or they're doing this as strike against Hollywood movies featuring gay sheepherders......

hillbilly[/QUOTE]


Does that mean they are of Scottish decent :evil:


I swear the world gets sicker by the second...what political/religious gain is there from attacking schoolchildren in the first place?


Mneme

Sindawe
December 20, 2005, 05:14 PM
The answer is, yes -- pryrethrins (insecticides) are in fact nerve agents -- the orginal nerve agent, Tabun, was developed by the Nazis after observing the effects of heavy doses of insecticides on humans forced to work under such conditions. DOH! Been away from the chem/bio fields too long.

Standing Wolf
December 20, 2005, 05:46 PM
Stop it! Stop it right this instant!

It was Bush's fault.

Vern Humphrey
December 20, 2005, 06:06 PM
Stop it! Stop it right this instant!

It was Bush's fault.

It's all about oil.:p

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