target shooting rifle for up to 300 yards?


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Chris17404
December 20, 2005, 05:02 PM
Hi all,

What type of rifle (caliber, model, and manufacturer) would you recommend for someone who'd like to use it primarily for target shooting up to 300 yards? I figure the 17's and 22's are out for that range, right? Thanks for your help!

Chris

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Oldnamvet
December 20, 2005, 05:07 PM
I wouldn't rule out the .22 calibers. There are a lot of good varmint rifles in .22 calibers and they reach out to 300 yds regularly. Look at the benchrest rifle calibers. They cover a wide range of calibers. More will depend on the rifle and optics than on the caliber (within reason).
Personally, I shoot my .243 Savage bolt action at that range with very good results (on varmints). Everything depends on how seriously you want to get into it.

Vern Humphrey
December 20, 2005, 05:09 PM
You don't say what kind of target shooting you're talking about. If it's formal competition, the rules of the game pretty much define the rifle.

If you just want to shoot from the bench or possibly from field positions, one very good choice would be the CZ 527 in .223 Remington. Another would be a Savage in the same caliber.

bogie
December 20, 2005, 06:12 PM
try...

www.kelblys.com

Also look at www.benchrest.com, and look for links to Shooters Corner (accurized used rifles) and Stevens Accuracy.

yonderway
December 20, 2005, 06:23 PM
Hi all,
What type of rifle (caliber, model, and manufacturer) would you recommend for someone who'd like to use it primarily for target shooting up to 300 yards? I figure the 17's and 22's are out for that range, right? Thanks for your help!


.243 Winchester in a Savage action. .243 Winchester has extremely favorable ballistics for 100-300 yards, better IMO than the much loved .308. Shoots flat & straight, and not affected as much by wind as many other popular calibers. Also, if you choose to, you could leave the bench and take it out in the woods to take a deer.

jem375
December 20, 2005, 06:33 PM
unless you intend to reload for your target rifle, get a 223 and you can buy ammo lot cheaper than anything else.

adaman04
December 20, 2005, 06:52 PM
I just got my Savage 10FP in .223 today. I don't even have my scope mounted yet, but (fingers crossed), I plan on doing some shooting at 300 yards. We will see how it goes.

georgeduz
December 20, 2005, 06:57 PM
223 rem is fine for 300 yards or meters,and the ar15 is just the rifle to do it

michael_aos
December 20, 2005, 07:10 PM
Another vote for .223.

I got some AMAZING groups at 425yrs with my Remington 700P(SS).

Mike

Legionnaire
December 20, 2005, 07:30 PM
.223 is fine, but I prefer the .308 at that distance. It isn't as sensitive to wind as the .223. I have bolt guns in both calibers; just prefer the .308 at 300.

Fatelvis
December 20, 2005, 07:53 PM
32840This is what I`d get in .223 or 308.

mustanger98
December 20, 2005, 08:03 PM
Chris17404:
Hi all,

What type of rifle (caliber, model, and manufacturer) would you recommend for someone who'd like to use it primarily for target shooting up to 300 yards? I figure the 17's and 22's are out for that range, right? Thanks for your help!

By ".17's and .22's", I take it you mean the rimfires. Actually, you may consider them for 300yds. I say that because I read about one club out in SoCal, primarily service rifle shooters, who also shoot .22LR rifles out to 400yds. This is, however, an isolated instance I read of. But, if you're steady enough, the rifle is probably mechanically capable (within reason).

Now, getting away from the rimfires... I noticed some votes for .223, .243, and .308... The US Marines qualify to 500m with M16's so it's not like .223 is totally useless, but more that in its civilian life, it's more of a varmint round. The .308... a lot of snipers use that round and one of my online buddies on another board said his sniper rifle in Nam was a Remington 700 in .308 and was good to 800m. Now, for the .243, my perusing the ballistics/trajectory tables tells me (if memory serves) a 100gr .243 bullet running 3000-31000fps and zeroed at 100yds will only be 18" or so low at 300yds. My experience with my Savage Model 11GL in .243Winchester says the rifle is capable of 1" groups at 100yds- roughly MOA with a factory loaded 100gr SP. With the right handload, that may well tighten up. Extrapolating the numbers, which ain't an exact science, you can figure a 3-4" group at 300yds with factory ammo.

Savages Model 11 (hunter series) is available in .223, .243, and .308 so you can pretty much take your pick or buy all three. However, I wouldn't rule out a Model 70 or Remington Model 7 or 700 or Ruger M77 Mk2 which are all fine rifles as well.

Chris17404
December 20, 2005, 08:05 PM
Thanks for the information! I'm new to rifles and thought about a 22, but honestly would like something a little more powerful. I know that goes against what many say your first rifle should be, but I am a fully grown adult and not a young kid. Wha specific highly-powered 22 calibers are there that can be used for 300 yards?

I will also definitely look into the other caliber recommendations as well (223, 243, and 308).

BozemanMT
December 20, 2005, 08:28 PM
If you just want to shoot from the bench or possibly from field positions, one very good choice would be the CZ 527 in .223 Remington. Another would be a Savage in the same caliber.

+1, heck of a deal, and CZ builds some fine rifles. Mine (CZ527) builds some itty bitty groups if i do my part.

Legionnaire
December 20, 2005, 08:28 PM
.222, .223., .22-250 are all ".22 caliber." Difference is they are centerfire cartridges, compared to the .22 rimfires (.22 short, long, and long rifle). I'm sure there are others.

flashhole
December 20, 2005, 09:19 PM
I'm surprised nobody put in a vote for a 25-06. The 85-100 grain bullets are sufficiently heavy to buck the wind yet light enough to hold a very flat trajectory well beyond 300 yards. My Ruger #1V with a Zeiss Conquest 4-14X44 scope is a heck of a rig and shoots rings around my CZ in 243 Winchester.

MDG1976
December 20, 2005, 09:52 PM
If you plan to shoot at 300 yards, a .308 would be the best bet. A .223 can get blown around quite a bit a that distance.

mustanger98
December 21, 2005, 12:01 AM
If you plan to shoot at 300 yards, a .308 would be the best bet. A .223 can get blown around quite a bit a that distance.

I agree with this based on what I've heard of 168gr BTHP's which are actually good to 800m in the right hands. I've heard they have a loading for .308 or .30-06 with this bullet that's still supersonic at 1000yds.

Thinking of .308 and .30-06, another option is an M1 Garand. I really like mine. My experience has been that on a good day, the bullet goes right where I put the front sight. Garands can be had in either chambering and IMO it has great sights. The old military two-stage trigger feels real good too.

http://www.odcmp.com

http://www.odcmp.com/images/m1_small.jpg

Rem700SD
December 21, 2005, 02:16 AM
.223 and .308 have a wide variety of loads, and the ammo is usually a bit cheaper, overall. I'd recommend a quality bolt action in .223. The rationale is that the .223 will be much more comfortable, and cheaper to shoot during long range sessions. It's a given that you are going to buy another rifle eventually. Get the .223 and a couple cases of quality ammo as a good start to your new collection!
My $.02
Dan

cz75bdneos22
December 21, 2005, 03:43 AM
CZ . .17HMR/HM2
Remington .17HMR/HM2
Ruger .17HMR/HM2

in that order, if the companies have them available in these calibers...i don't like rifles per se...that's my take. Y'all...:o

Matt-man
December 21, 2005, 04:25 AM
Any of the rimfires are going to get blown around bigtime by the wind at 300. I've shot my .17HMR at 200 and had a hard time with a light wind.

A .223 loaded with heavy bullets doesn't give up much in terms of wind drift to the .308, especially at shorter distances (and 300 counts as short :)). It has the advantage of less recoil, which is a factor if you put many rounds downrange.

You can get good factory match loads for both .223 and .308 from various manufacturers if you're not handloading, and they both get good barrel life.

In high-power rifle communities, .243 has a reputation for being hard on barrels. You'll also have to handload if you want match ammo.

Thin Black Line
December 21, 2005, 10:54 AM
.243 (for accuracy if you handload) or .308 (for reasonable accuracy
vs cost).

Any "22", including the .223, will drift on highly windy days at 300 yds.
If you like to spend your time guesstimating windage between
gusts and hoping if you hit the target, pick up an AR-15. If you
want better odds of actually hitting the target pick up a bolt action
in 243 or 308, or if you prefer semis a DSA FAL, Springfield M1A,
PTR, etc.

Werewolf
December 21, 2005, 03:47 PM
.222, .223., .22-250 are all ".22 caliber." Difference is they are centerfire cartridges, compared to the .22 rimfires (.22 short, long, and long rifle). I'm sure there are others.220 Swift, 22 Hornet among others. Always wanted a rifle chambered in 220 Swift - :( never got one though. Kinda rare now I think.

Vern Humphrey
December 21, 2005, 03:52 PM
220 Swift, 22 Hornet among others. Always wanted a rifle chambered in 220 Swift - :( never got one though. Kinda rare now I think.

The Hornet, as much as I love her, cannot legitimately be called a 300-yard cartridge. A man with patience and experience can load the Hornet to fine accuracy, but it really isn't in the same category as the .223 and similar cartridges.

browningguy
December 21, 2005, 04:08 PM
The .223 with 69 gr. bullets (or heavier) is quite capable of shooting perfect scores on the 300 targets. You might get by with lighter bullets but why bother. A good AR, or something like the Savages already mentioned are good rifles. The AR is a little more complicated to clean and run but that can be learned in just a few minutes.

The upside for an AR based rifle is that you can buy uppers from .22 RF to .50 Beowulf and just drop them on your lower receiver. Now it's not really cheaper for the uppers, but you only have one trigger pull to learn how to shoot. I just had a custom upper built for mine in 6x45 (.223 case necked up to .243) just for short range target shooting and deer culling.

However for a new shooter I would also recommend the Savage in .223. It's cheap and they just always seem to shoot well. Buy a decent mid-priced scope such as Burris FFII, Bushnell 3200/4200, Nikon Buckmaster etc. and you're out shooting sub-moa groups for under $600. And nothing even close to it's price will have a trigger like the Savage Accutrigger.

jem375
December 21, 2005, 04:13 PM
.243 (for accuracy if you handload) or .308 (for reasonable accuracy
vs cost).

Any "22", including the .223, will drift on highly windy days at 300 yds.
If you like to spend your time guesstimating windage between
gusts and hoping if you hit the target, pick up an AR-15. If you
want better odds of actually hitting the target pick up a bolt action
in 243 or 308, or if you prefer semis a DSA FAL, Springfield M1A,
PTR, etc.as the poster above your post wrote...the 223 doesn't give up hardly anything to the 308 with 165-168 gr and the 223 with heavy 80 gr. bullets when bucking the wind.

deadly50bmg
December 21, 2005, 04:20 PM
50BMG:)

Anyone here think that the 50 would be blown around at 300 yards? Buy an AR-50, It kicks about like my Ruger 77 compact in .243.

Just to let you guys know...I was just kidding on suggesting a BMG for this.

Thats my story and I'm sticking to it!

Vern Humphrey
December 21, 2005, 04:39 PM
Wind drift can be calculated by subtracting time-to-target in air from time-to-target in a vacuum and multiplying by the sideways vector of the wind velocity.

Let's assume 3,000 fps muzzle velocity. Time-to-target in a vacuum for 300 yards would be 0.3 seconds.

Let's now assume actual time-to-target in air is 0.35 seconds.

Now let's assume a 10 mph wind at 90 degrees to the range.

0.35 sec - .03 sec = 0.05 sec

Wind velocity in feet per second is 10X22/15 = 14.67 fps. Wind drift is 0.05 X 14.65 = 0.7335 feet or 8.8 inches.

Note that this has nothing to do with caliber, but with the aerodynamy efficiency or ballistic coefficient of the bullet. Heavy .22 caliber bullets have fairly high ballistic coefficients.

It is, however, easier to get a high BC with a large bullet, simply because the weight of the bullet increases with the cube, while the frontal cross-section only increases with the square. For identical bullet shapes, the larger caliber will have a higher BC.

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