[seansean]

are you worried your posts here or elsewhere are gonna end up in a file on some fed. agents desk? Just curious.

[hillbilly]

In a word, no.

If it gets so bad that I have to legitimately worry about that, in that people are actually being whisked away into custody because of what they post on internet boards, then the time to load out and hit the woods will have been long past.................


hillbilly

[Fidel Castro]

Yes!

If 'OUR' government wouldn't respect the 4th Amendment, WHY would 'OUR' government respect 'OUR' 1st Amendment rights.

I will speculate that there is an internet forum 'profiling' going on. Guns, political, muslim.

My username is probably showing up on the 'supercomputer' right now.

[Old Dog]

are you worried your posts here or elsewhere are gonna end up in a file on some fed. agents desk?Why? And just what would some federal agent do with our posts?

Sometimes I think a lot of people believe that the government occupies much of its time spying on its own citizens. But, if you are worried about this, just use a lot of nonstandard abbreviations, intentional misspellings and symbols (#@$%) mixed in with letters in your words ... Gotta defeat those filters the NSA is using to screen our posts, right?

Hillbilly is 100% correct.

[Cliff]

Ain't skered...:rolleyes:

[PATH]

Nope! I can't say as I have anything to say that would draw the attention of ferderal authorities. I will be sure to never discuss Curtis LeMay and the bombing campaign against Japan though!:what: :neener: :D :evil:

[Screehopper]

Just don't make any threats towards the pres.

A college student got whisked away by the FBI because he posted in his blog that was deemed by the FBI as threatening towards the pres. He was saying something figuratively, but it got interpretted wrong. So they busted the college student. I have no idea what the outcome was.

[GoRon]

Just don't make any threats towards the pres.

A college student got whisked away by the FBI because he posted in his blog that was deemed by the FBI as threatening towards the pres. He was saying something figuratively, but it got interpretted wrong. So they busted the college student. I have no idea what the outcome was.

Any links?

Sounds like an urban myth to me but maybe not...

[Trip20]

no

[Screehopper]

Any links?

Sounds like an urban myth to me but maybe not...

It believe I read it on CNN a while back. Their archives are not exactly the easiest to search. I'll check.

[Biker]

I've always assumed that anything I do publically would be scrutinized by someone with an acronym behind their name. Nothing's changed.
Biker

[Byron Quick]

If I haven't shown up on their radar screen by now, it means one of two things: 1)They aren't watching the internet boards that closely or 2) they have people of intelligence and subtlety doing the surveillance.

Based on the government's track record, I tend to believe in #1 as #2 is just too incredible to be true.

[rick_reno]

Nope, they're only looking at terrorists and I ain't one of them.

[longeyes]

I plan to clean up my emoticons.:D

But not yet.

[pax]

Nawww.

When I started posting online, I figured that anything I said could easily be traced back to me, personally, by anyone who cared enough to put some legwork into it.

So I decided a long time ago to only post stuff I wouldn't mind saying in public, in person, to whomever I was talking to, with the whole world listening in. I figured I only had one reputation, regardless of what username I used, and I've acted accordingly. It's kept me out of a lot of grief.

I really doubt anyone in the gov't cares enough about me, personally, to put much legwork into cataloging my posts and keeping track of every little thing I've ever said online, but even if they did, so what? Heh, maybe I can help educate the poor bored BATF agent skimming this right now ... ;)

pax

[lowracer]

I have it on good authority that they are reading this forum and all posts are being logged on NSA computers for later collation, interrogation, and ultimately confiscation and incarceration. According to one website I read, agents of the federal government are at this very minute preparing huge barbed-wire internment camps in the deserts of Utah for the wholesale warehousing of American citizens, and you can bet these will be "no guns allowed" camps.

The "S" has "HTF" already. Time to bug out, this is your notice. Grab your shiny mylar tri-corner hat at the door. You're gonna need that bad boy.

[Mnemesyne]

I won't change my posting habits...Eschelon <sp> has been around for years sniffing out email/web postings...So what makes it any different now? Just my thoughts.....

Mneme

[Third_Rail]

Everything I send over the internet that is of significant importance to me is encrypted with enough authority to make it hard for even the gov't to break... not to mention I like to send loads of encrypted garbage for them to work on, too. :D

[scubie02]

Its been common knowledge that programs like Carnivore, Echelon etc have been combing through all emails, faxes, even phone conversations etc for years. I have just assumed they are scanning forums like these for some time now. I'm sure there are actual agents who hang out on forums as well.

[WT]

NSA has been scanning telephone calls for at least 34 years. Back in 1971 they had a number of CRAY computers assigned to the task at Ft. Meade, MD.

[taliv]

pax +1

however, that doesn't mean i condone their spying. it's a definite no-no. out of bounds. unconstitutional.

[Crosshair]

Not really, still going to swipe buds from my neighbors pot plants.

/Watches as PITA neighbor gets raided.:evil:


//I hope this does not last long.

[Alex45ACP]

I'm not worried at all. I trust the government. They would never abuse their power. They only go after terrorists, and if it keeps me safer I'm willing to give up some of my freedoms.

[pax]

however, that doesn't mean i condone their spying. it's a definite no-no. out of bounds. unconstitutional.
taliv ~

Agreed on that, too. More strongly than you can imagine.

pax

Rockefeller's Rule: Never do anything you wouldn't be caught dead doing.

[IndianaDean]

I'm not worried at all. I've gone through scores of background checks buying firearms over the last 2years. I have tried several several different guns, traded to purchase others until I found what I liked. I counted up the handguns I've bought, and traded off over the last couple of years.
55. All of those except one had background checks.
Every single time the FBI has practically waved me through the checks. They apparently have no problem with my multitudes of purchases, so I don't give it any thought.

[CraigJS]

What makes you think that the government couldn't find out what you ate last night, and the amount of waste it produced about any time it wants too?
It doesn't take the NSA to find out reams of info about any one of us if it wants to. All I ask is that they knock before they try to come in...:)

[fjolnirsson]

Naw, I don't care who's reading my posts. The government isn't watching us. I'll just keep posting the same...Wait a minute, doorbell.....;sldhf;osdysx mfvb m1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

































.......:D

[MikeIsaj]

Sarcasm on
Well if you aren't doing anything wrong, you don't have anything to worry about. Right?

[IndianaDean]

I could say, why would government agents want to bore themselves to death watching us? :D

[V4Vendetta]

What post's? I have no posts. I was never here. You don't know me. You follow? ;)

[geekWithA.45]

I assume that I've been on some list somewhere of people to look out for since I was 12, when a friend and I tried to get Echelon's attention by preposterously boasting of our "vast nuclear arsenal".

We were hoping we'd get to talk to a real, live, federal agent. Or at least get his autograph. Or at least a look at his gun.

Foolishness of youth aside, careful inspection of over 1500 pages of text I've publicly posted indicates that I've never advocated for anything other than what used to be commonly regarded as "normal American stuff".

If "normal American stuff" is enough to get one sent to the gulag, I'm also certain that they've figured out by now that I will not go quietly, and that they'll need to send ALL their guys.

[PCGS65]

NO! They have been doing this for a long time. I'm suprised some didn't already know that. Remember Hoover the FBI director?
Anyway continue to go after those terrorists.:fire:

[cropcirclewalker]

I have a high pain threshold.

I don't get novacaine at the dentist.

They can let rats chew on my face, but they will never get me love Big Brother.

[bogie]

Heck, back in the days of nothin' but bulletin boards, a guy I knew managed to get himself a visit from the secret service... I'm sure he's still on their list...

I think he was about 40ish, and living with his folks. I think they took away his computer privileges for a while...

NSA guys, if you're reading this, I'm job hunting... Versatile, intelligent, and a vet...

[bjbarron]

Nope.

Well, maybe when I'm posting on the Al-Qaeda forum.

Come to think of it...with the ACLU and the Moonbats watching my back, it's probably the safest place to post.

[XLMiguel]

What Pax said, both times.

If you're just now getting worried about online privacy, you're at least 15 years too late.

[Logistics]

>>>Its been common knowledge that programs like Carnivore, Echelon etc have been combing through all emails, faxes, even phone conversations etc for years. I have just assumed they are scanning forums like these for some time now. I'm sure there are actual agents who hang out on forums as well.
<<<

Yes and unfortunately even with combing over MILLIONS and literally MILLIONS of faxes, emails, phonecalls and costing us billions (trillions?) of dollars and also at the expense of the BOR they have let things like Sept 11th happen.

Pardon me if I don't think my / our liberties are worth it.

:uhoh:

[Turkey Creek]

I'm sure that their file on me already takes up at least two cabinets, so anything else I could possibly say, would only corroborate what they think of me already- I pay my taxes, am an honerably discharged vet, jump through their hoops when I buy a gun, don't beat my wife, and just speak my mind- if they come for someone like me, I figure I'll have lot's of company- besides, if it comes down to having to walk around on eggshells for fear the Feds will lock me up for what I say or think, it's time to stand at the bridge again and say no to the Redcoats-

[GoRon]

besides, if it comes down to having to walk around on eggshells for fear the Feds will lock me up for what I say or think, it's time to stand at the bridge again and say no to the Redcoats-

The first wave is getting antsy with whats going on.

If the Fed goes too far all the "nationalists" are going to join the sky is falling crowd and then things will get interesting politically.

Of course the Fed has probably already gone too far. It is just a matter of where is the tipping point.

[Standing Wolf]

Why should I worry? The F., the B., and the I. already have my finger prints.

[M-Rex]

Nope. Not at all. I'm not on any watch list, nor do I accept calls from terrorists, or terrorist harboring countries.

[bogie]

Considering that I'm not likely to be receiving any telephone calls from Islamic terrorists, I don't think that I've got a darn thing to worry about.

Now, if you're planning getting calls from Abduhl (for reference, google DNRC), then you should worry. But you're not worried anymore, because now you're gonna change phones a lot more often.

[georgeduz]

ok u got me . i am a spy!

[goose]

I KNEW IT, I JUST KNEW IT!!

[PCGS65]

Georgeduz.........we have been watching you.:neener:

[cz75bdneos22]

Nah, heck...investigate me all you want...:evil:
i'll be glad to share with whomever wants to look inside my world...:D
Stop the madness, please!:scrutiny:

[Janitor]

I can't imagine any job more boring than to be a government agent assigned to wading through my online communication looking for evil intent.

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

But the thought that they actually might be makes me sick.
-

[DunedinDragon]

The fact is, the US government has been "spying" on the US population since the early Clinton days...so this is nothing new. If you're worried about it now, it's too late anyway.

However, just FYI, this is a public forum. You come here to post publicly so you've already given authorization to anyone that wants to join the forum to view your posts. That's the nature of a public forum.

That's like saying, I'm upset because I didn't want MemberXXX to read my posts.

[ReadyontheRight]

You think an article in the New York Times changes anything? We are posting on a PUBLIC board.

It's interesting how there was no uproar when the FBI was spending much of their time tracking legal fertilizer purchases by farmers while Al-Queda communicated with people in the US to set up 9/11.

Eternal vigilance is the price of freedom, but methinks the vigilance of the NY Times is not so eternal.

[dpesec]

I won't change my posting habits...Eschelon <sp> has been around for years sniffing out email/web postings...So what makes it any different now? Just my thoughts.....

Mneme

Bingo. So why bother now. Actually, if you change your habits, it could raise a flag.:D

[JohnBT]

I'm not worried about the government reading my posts; they've been reading my thoughts for years.

Merry Christmas everyone.

John

[robert garner]

Turkey creek; when did you stop beating your wife?
I don't fear my govt at least any more than a Clydesdale
who might just squush you with no EVIL intent.

[Waitone]

Yup! Why get huffy now over lost liberties when tapping has been going on for 30+ years. Why the outrage over phone calls when the same president aided and abetted by the same congress passed legislation which shut down free speech before an election. Historically, tpolitical free speech was the only free speech recognized by the Bill of Rights. Yet, congress puts a knife in its gizzard and no one complains.

I am convinced THR has been visited by Agent Schmuckatelli doing a little chumming. About a month ago a "kid" rode in claiming to be well underage and a good street fighter. He wanted advice on what kind of handgun to get. Well, the grey hairs on the board jumped him about his pathetic grammar, syntax and punctuation. Immediately thereafter all three cleaned right up. I'm convinced the THR was being probed and Agent Schmuckatelli was on the job. :scrutiny:
<and no, I can't find the URL>

[Oldtimer]

You have it on "good authority" that "they" are reading this forum and posts are being logged on NSA computers for "later collation, interrogation, confiscation and incarceration"??????

WHO is the "good authority"? Who is the "they" that are reading this forum?

Also, "according to one web site", "federal agents are setting up huge barbed wire interment camps in the Utah deserts for wholesale warehousing of American citizens"????? What "web site"? Where in Utah?

I'm not "bashing" you, per se, but when you start posting vague information such as this, I can't help but think that YES, the "S" has already "HTF", but it's in the way of DISINFORMATION and HYSTERIA-based fecal matter! Can you be more explicit with your information?

[Lobotomy Boy]

Of course the Fed has probably already gone too far. It is just a matter of where is the tipping point.

For me that point got a lot closer yesterday when the Bush administration said that it didn't need FISA warrants because article two of the legislation authorizing war in Afghanisatn after 9/11 exempted the President from the jurisdiction of any legal statute.


It's interesting how there was no uproar when the FBI was spending much of their time tracking legal fertilizer purchases by farmers while Al-Queda communicated with people in the US to set up 9/11.

One of the arguments promoted by those who are willing to give up our freedom for the illusion of safety is that acting in an unconstitutional manner has meant that there have been no further terrorist attacks. That's like saying that tracking legal fertilizer purchases by farmers prevented the 9/11 terrorist attack. What has the government done to make us safer besides suspend our constitutional rights? The most obvious example that I can think of is that I have to take off my shoes every time I go through airport security. Geez, that certainly makes me feel safer and is well worth suspending our Constitutional rights.

The fact is that the main reason we haven't had a terrorist attack since 9/11 is that we temporarily disrupted al Quaeda when we started a war in Afghanistan. This was the single best move we made in the war on terror. Unfortunately before we could accomplish that mission we got distracted in an ill-timed and ill-conceived war in Iraq. If we really cared about stopping terrorism we would have finished the job in Afghanistan. If we'd have invested the resources squandered in Iraq into hunting down every last al Quaeda and Taliban member in Afghanistan, then rebuilding the country's infrastructure and economy, creating a stable nation-state in the heart of the Muslim world, we would have gone a lot further towards making the world safer from terrorism than suspending any of our Constitutional freedoms.

[Double Naught Spy]

This has got to be one of the most naive thread topics I have seen in a long time. This one and others are public forums that can be viewed by anyone. D'uh.

[Waitone]

Also, "according to one web site", "federal agents are setting up huge barbed wire interment camps in the Utah deserts for wholesale warehousing of American citizens"????? What "web site"? Where in Utah?Take a gander right here http://permanent.access.gpo.gov/websites/icegov/www.ice.gov/graphics/dro/endgame.pdf

Then at your leisure google-up "Endgame" and "Office of detention and removal strategic plan 2003-2012"

If you're prone to need tinfoil and duct tape this 'un will send you over the edge.

[scubie02]

OT--I think his post was meant to be sarcastic...

You have it on "good authority" that "they" are reading this forum and posts are being logged on NSA computers for "later collation, interrogation, confiscation and incarceration"??????

WHO is the "good authority"? Who is the "they" that are reading this forum?

Also, "according to one web site", "federal agents are setting up huge barbed wire interment camps in the Utah deserts for wholesale warehousing of American citizens"????? What "web site"? Where in Utah?

I'm not "bashing" you, per se, but when you start posting vague information such as this, I can't help but think that YES, the "S" has already "HTF", but it's in the way of DISINFORMATION and HYSTERIA-based fecal matter! Can you be more explicit with your information?

[bogie]

You think an article in the New York Times changes anything?

I think it may have made a lot of the terrorists change their communication methods. I'll bet that sigint has dropped, or has essentially become worthless with false information.

[Master Blaster]

NO:neener:

[xd9fan]

on who I vote for....yes

[Pilot]

No. The NSA only spies on those whe RECEIVE CALLS from top Al Queda Operatives. Since I don't receive calls from AL Queda, I will not change my habits. What a ridiculous question in the first place. You obviously believe the lies told to you by the Democrats and mainstream media.

[Biker]

If this is the case, Pilot, then why bypass the courts? If a tap can be placed 72 hours prior to applying for a warrant, why not do it legally?
Biker

[Trip20]

Watching the news last night... the talking head stated that both the Clinton and Reagan administration did the same darn thing that the Bush administration has done.

Is this true?

One of their guests also stated NO administration needs to obtain a warrant when listening for information... & that the warrant is only necessary when procuring information for purposes of evidence as it relates to a criminal trial.

Is this true?

[Biker]

Whether or not it's true Trip20, it's time for it to stop. Unless of course, the Constitution is just a G** Da** piece of paper.:cuss:
Biker

[riverdog]

Monitoring boards such as this requires so little skill anyone can do it; why would the gov't need to use NSA? Hell, any rookie cop with a computer can do it, why waste the time of some high dollar mathematicians and computer scientists. It's not rocket science.

Now if you guys start encrypting your posts, using codewords and routing through a server in Beijing, then maybe the NSA would be interested -- for the 2 seconds it takes to figure out the content.

I'm not concerned.

[blackguns]

I am in my 20's (not for too much longer) and I have grown up almost totally in the computer generation. Honestly, I never had the expectation of privacy. EVREYTHING important is computerized, the US military invented the internet and the alphabet agencies have quietly dominated the practical use of computers since the beggining.

Secuirty software doesn't exist that NSA can't get into in short order. Someone posted about encrypted information. In a practical sense there is no such thing. Commercially avaliable encryption algorithms are a "feel good" item. They will keep a 15 year old Korean "script kiddie" out of your inbox but thats it. If you have better than commerically avaliable encryption you better have a good reason.

Computer equipment and software are the most numerous items on export restriction lists. NSA reads CIA's e-mail, they sure as hell can read yours.

I don't like it but I figure I have been subject to it since I was young and have had no ill effects. The principal of the matter does bother me, but I for one kinda said " well duh...." when the domestic spying story hit the news.

It has been a fact of life for some time, and it has no political prefference. The current admin doesn't realize that it is wrong....so therefore they are more honest about it, but every administration in the electronic age has done this.

Not that it is right, but without massive public outcry it will not change.

[Trip20]

Whether or not it's true Trip20, it's time for it to stop. Unless of course, the Constitution is just a G** Da** piece of paper.

I agree, Biker, that the laws need to change.

But this is just another vehicle used to make the current administration look like a big scary evil entity (http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=171363). It's getting tiresome, and I'm definitely not Bush's biggest supporter.

[svtruth]

S-P-E-L-L anything controversial.

[Biker]

I agree, Biker, that the laws need to change.

But this is just another vehicle used to make the current administration look like a big scary evil entity (http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=171363). It's getting tiresome, and I'm definitely not Bush's biggest supporter.
On the contrary Trip20, I think that this admin needs to follow the law.
Biker

[Lobotomy Boy]

It has been a fact of life for some time, and it has no political prefference. The current admin doesn't realize that it is wrong....so therefore they are more honest about it, but every administration in the electronic age has done this.

Of course this has been going on a long time, but there is one huge difference. The current administration does realize it's wrong; they just don't care. It's not the spying that has me scared--it's the admission that the administration believes it is exempted from Constitutional restrictions. There's not a lot we can do about covert violations of our civil rights, but this is an overt violation, and it starts us down a slippery slope towards a totalitarian state. By declaring that it has the right to take away our Fourth Amendment rights, the administration is saying that it can take away any of our Constitutionally granted rights, including the right to keep and bear arms. This is not a stretch. The Bush adminstration could offer the same rationale for nullifying the Second Amendment that it offers for nullifying the Fourth Amendment--fighting terrorism and insuring national security. After all, wouldn't we all be a lot safer if there were no guns for the terrorists to use?

But this is just another vehicle used to make the current administration look like a big scary evil entity. This adminstration has publicly declared that it does not consider itself bound by Constitutional checks on power. I can't imagine anything scarier than that.

[buzz_knox]

are you worried your posts here or elsewhere are gonna end up in a file on some fed. agents desk? Just curious.

Probably been mentioned before, but you don't have an expectation of privacy in a public board. They could monitor these boards before 9/11, and can do so now, without any concerns. And "screen names" aren't an effective way of concealing one's identity.

So, after hearing of this story, I'm not changing my posting habits because absolutely nothing related to the posting environment has changed.

[antarti]

Everybody from the local CLEO to the usual 3-letter folk, to the State Dept (and even a foreign govt) has my prints, IRS records, etc. Where I work I've signed reams of NDAs and been checked out too. I figure I've been checked out and cleared by all the people who COULD abuse me, so why worry now? What is everybody gonna do, turn around one day and say "He fooled us all!" and try to paint me as some wacko? That would attack their own "due dilligence"...

Nobody attaches digital sigs to their posts... and its not like the 3-letter agencies couldn't post whatever they wanted on your "behalf" anyway if they felt like framing you. It's a non-issue.


Heck, back in the days of nothin' but bulletin boards, a guy I knew managed to get himself a visit from the secret service.

Bogie +1

LOL! You just brought back a flood of memories about the same thing. Back when all those "BIOC Agent" sysops were getting visits...

[carlrodd]

PADME, BAIL ORGANA, and SENATORS MON MOTHMA, FANG ZAR, TERR TANEEL, and GIDDEAN DANU sit in Senator Organa 's office.

BAIL ORGANA: Now that he has control of the Jedi Council, the Chancellor has appointed Governors to oversee all star systems in the Republic.

FANG ZAR: When did this happen?

BAIL ORGANA: The decree was posted this morning.

PADME: Do you think he will dismantle the Senate?

MON MOTHMA: Why bother? As a practical matter, the Senate no longer exists.

GIDDEAN DANU: The constitution is in shreds. Amendment after amendment . . . executive directives, sometimes a dozen in one day.

[carlrodd]

PALPATINE: I understand your reservations completely, Senator, and I assure you the appointment of Governors will in no way compete with the duties of the Senate.

PADME: May I take it then, that there will be no further amendments to the Constitution?

PALPATINE: I want this terrible conflict to end as much as you do, My Lady, and when it does I guarantee an immediate return to democracy . . .

PADME: You are pursuing a diplomatic solution to the war, then.

PALPATINE: You must trust me to do the right things, Senator. That is why I am here.

[carlrodd]

PALPATINE: That maybe true, but with Count Dooku dead, he is the leader of the Droid Army, and I assure you, the Senate will vote to continue the war as long as Grievous is alive.



do you think if we turned in a charlatan Osama they would notice? i wonder if they have his DNA?

[CAS700850]

Playing along this theme, how long until Order 66 is issued, and all of us Jedi are shot in the back.

[Sindawe]

But only so far as to dust off one of my old signatures.

[xd9fan]

Thank You Carlrodd!!! America is not uninformed they are unmotivated.

Jedi and Conceal carry holders together in concept they are.

[Sindawe]

Jedi and Conceal carry holders together in concept they are. Are you saying that one of the requirements to get a CCW permit is that the permit hold must be chaste? :neener:

[Werewolf]

Its been common knowledge that programs like Carnivore, Echelon etc have been combing through all emails, faxes, even phone conversations etc for years. I have just assumed they are scanning forums like these for some time now. I'm sure there are actual agents who hang out on forums as well.
OK - we know you're here. Raise your hands now if you are an agent monitoring this forum.

Oh come on guys - please... Raise yur hands.

Huh? No hands. All righty then. NEVERMIND. :D

[carlrodd]

kudos to these members of the galactic senate in this circumstance....vigilant, proactive etc. i don't know about seeing myself as analogous with the jedi though....

YODA: The Dark Side clouds everything. Impossible to see,
the future is.


.....easily duped, shiftless.

[Camp David]

Let's examine the facts shall we?

Who is upset about the policies of the NSA?
The Democrats.
Why?
They are concerned about the possibility of what they say on telephones being leaked to the media.
Who are the blaming?
The president.
Why?
Democrats blame everything on the President.
What should be done?
Nothing.
Did the NSA do anything wrong?
No.
Did the President do anything wrong?
No.
Who is upset about this again?
The Democrats.
Why?
if you were a democrat, would you want your telephone foolishness broadcast in the media?
I see!

[carlrodd]

Let's examine the facts shall we?

Who is upset about the policies of the NSA?
The Democrats.
Why?
They are concerned about the possibility of what they say on telephones being leaked to the media.
Who are the blaming?
The president.
Why?
Democrats blame everything on the President.
What should be done?
Nothing.
Did the NSA do anything wrong?
No.
Did the President do anything wrong?
No.
Who is upset about this again?
The Democrats.
Why?
if you were a democrat, would you want your telephone foolishness broadcast in the media?
I see!


I'M not a democrat.

[Biker]

I'M not a democrat.
Me neither. The rest of that post is as flawed as the answer to the first question.
Biker

[carlrodd]

Me neither. The rest of that post is as flawed as the answer to the first question.
Biker


i didn't even look at the rest of it.

[Waitone]

Ignore = Ignore + 1

[Rock45]

Okay, to put this to rest...we're not really watching it that closely.

Except maybe Biker and a few others...You know who you are! :cool:



















Sorry folks...I just can't help myself...and I had to single out someone...sorry Biker...no harm meant!:)

[palerider1]

I think its great!!!!! weed out all those child molesters and preditors, along with terrorist operations. Look at all those freaks who stalk children on the internet through chat sites. I wont let my kids get on any of that stuff. Guess those who sneak around and do illegal activities should be the only ones worried, right? Go get'em NSA!!!!!!!!!!!!

palerider1

[Biker]

Okay, to put this to rest...we're not really watching it that closely.

Except maybe Biker and a few others...You know who you are! :cool:



















Sorry folks...I just can't help myself...and I had to single out someone...sorry Biker...no harm meant!:)
I'm used to it. I'm an attention...ummmm....prostitute. At least, according to my wife.
:)
Biker

[carlrodd]

I think its great!!!!! weed out all those child molesters and preditors, along with terrorist operations. Look at all those freaks who stalk children on the internet through chat sites. I wont let my kids get on any of that stuff. Guess those who sneak around and do illegal activities should be the only ones worried, right? Go get'em NSA!!!!!!!!!!!!

palerider1

illegal activities.....like criminal spelling and sentence structure?

[Camp David]

...all those child molesters and preditors...

?

Freudian slip?

p-r-e-d-a-t-o-r-s

[Igloodude]

I've never admitted to anything against the law (or potentially against the law in the future) online, and I'm sure not going to start now...

[Biker]

I've never admitted to anything against the law (or potentially against the law in the future) online, and I'm sure not going to start now...
Yuppers.
;)
Biker

[CentralTexas]

Bomb Terrorist gun nuclear biohazard anthrax jehovah allah koresh waco angola lybia syria ak-47 anarchy hostage attack bomb kill Americans guns
Bomb Terrorist gun nuclear biohazard anthrax jehovah allah koresh waco angola lybia syria ak-47 anarchy hostage attack bomb kill Americans guns
Bomb Terrorist gun nuclear biohazard anthrax jehovah allah koresh waco angola lybia syria ak-47 anarchy hostage attack bomb kill Americans guns
Bomb Terrorist gun nuclear biohazard anthrax jehovah allah koresh waco angola lybia syria ak-47 anarchy hostage attack bomb kill Americans guns
Bomb Terrorist gun nuclear biohazard anthrax jehovah allah koresh waco angola lybia syria ak-47 anarchy hostage attack bomb kill Americans guns
Bomb Terrorist gun nuclear biohazard anthrax jehovah allah koresh waco angola lybia syria ak-47 anarchy hostage attack bomb kill Americans guns
:evil:
CT

[carlrodd]

can you get yourself in trouble for publicly admitting to things you have never done? for instance, if i started making posts with bogus claims of criminal involvement that upon investigation, there would be absolutely no evidence for, will the authorities be angry?

[odysseus]

Central Texas, I think all of those have already been on this board many many times over already...:rolleyes: :D

[palerider1]

Well,
spelling doesnt count any way , does it?:)

palerider1

[palerider1]

can you get yourself in trouble for publicly admitting to things you have never done? for instance, if i started making posts with bogus claims of criminal involvement that upon investigation, there would be absolutely no evidence for, will the authorities be angry?


mayby you should try it and let us all know. i laughed my a__ off when i saw your post. Good one, i can see some idiot trying it out too. :)
hope you have a good day carlrodd

palerider1

[seansean]

No. The NSA only spies on those whe RECEIVE CALLS from top Al Queda Operatives. Since I don't receive calls from AL Queda, I will not change my habits. What a ridiculous question in the first place. You obviously believe the lies told to you by the Democrats and mainstream media.

Ease up, pilot, if if the question were that ridiculous, there wouldn't be so many posts in response...and if you actually believe the NSA limited themselves the way you describe, then you have a lot more faith in them than I do.

[buzz_knox]

Ease up, pilot, if if the question were that ridiculous, there wouldn't be so many posts in response...and if you actually believe the NSA limited themselves the way you describe, then you have a lot more faith in them than I do.

Why the focus on NSA? Any law enforcement agency in the US with a computer and internet access has the authority to surf the web and check out who posts what where. The issue with the NSA (and this issue was known long before the New York Times broke the story and before Bush ever entered office) has absolutely no application to people posting on a public website.

[Luchtaine]

NSA spying no way! if you thought they weren't you were kidding yourself.

[KriegHund]

It wouldnt surprise one bit if they are using software to monitor words/word order/sentance structure right this very moment.

By typing "George W Bush President hate terrorism bomb nuke nuclear device bio biological nerve gas air plane american airlines anthrax kill evil hajj shi'ite muslim islam allah isreal palsetine iraq iran leader cell destroy plans secrecy hell virgins heaven sacrifice suicide explosive semtex C4 plastic-explosive wheels office tower luggage suitcase purse shoe hat bravery honor"

Theres plenty more keywords out there.

I also suspect that if someone sent a message contained 3 or more of those words in a 200 word range and that person was on the "Watch-List" it would case the CIA/FBI/SS to perk up their ears a little.

Although one does have to remember the billions of phonecalls/faxes/emails/text mesages/BB postst that happen daily.

Get enough computers, get em fast enough....heck, the fastes computer is something like 10 terraflops, right?

Im gonna make an ASS-umation (Something my old teacher always use to say)
Anyways...
(http://plc.fis.utoronto.ca/courses/3777a/Session%208.htm was used here)
Ok, 10 teraflops a second, is, i think (assumation part) 10,000 gigabytes a second.
10,000 gigabytes a seocnd is 10,000,000 megabytes a second.
10,000,000 megabytes a second is 10,000,000,000 kilabytes a second.
10,000,000,000 kilabytes a second is 10,000,000,000,000 bytes a second

There are 8 bits in a byte, and each bit counts as one charcter (1,0) "A byte is capable of holding one character."

So 10,000,000,000,000 multiplied by 8= 80,000,000,000,000 characters a second. And thats one supercomputer.

80 trillion characters a second. One supercomputer.
Lets say they have just 10 supercomputers.....
800,000,000,000,000

800 trillion characters a second....

Im beggining to belive its entirely possible that, with enough computers, ever single 1 and 0 could be monitered....

[blackguns]

ya know what i think is funny........

If the government does have specific words or phrases that trigger a computer at Ft. Meade to go "ding!!, you have mail" to the poor agents who are in charge of sorting through all the data that is minded. Can you imagine the nightmare that the news story has caused?

Talk about a flood! Every forum post and news story and e-mail and any other electronic media is bound to have an example similar to the above listing every guessed "hot word" that could be on the list!

I have a freind that has been up for some heavy duty security clearance through his job. Very heavy duty, he's got a TS SCI and this one is taking years longer than the TS to get. We have fun every once in a while throwing "hot words" into our phone conversations because we assume that we are being monitored.


Hmmm.....maybe that's why it is taking so long :evil:

[KriegHund]

ya know what i think is funny........

If the government does have specific words or phrases that trigger a computer at Ft. Meade to go "ding!!, you have mail" to the poor agents who are in charge of sorting through all the data that is minded. Can you imagine the nightmare that the news story has caused?

Talk about a flood! Every forum post and news story and e-mail and any other electronic media is bound to have an example similar to the above listing every guessed "hot word" that could be on the list!

I have a freind that has been up for some heavy duty security clearance through his job. Very heavy duty, he's got a TS SCI and this one is taking years longer than the TS to get. We have fun every once in a while throwing "hot words" into our phone conversations because we assume that we are being monitored.


Hmmm.....maybe that's why it is taking so long :evil:

*Giggle*

[buzz_knox]

I started doing that when I heard about Echelon. During a previous administration, I would routinely discuss the terrorist bombing of a high school in Clinton, TN. I figured that those code words were enough to get me in a few files I otherwise wouldn't have made it in. ;)

[blackguns]

How many of us have had a visit from a G man or seen ANY other negative result of this kind of monitoring?

The idea and principal of it is repugnant, I am not arguing that. But I would have bet good money that 9/11 wouldn't be the last attack on US soil.......and maybe it won't be but I am happy with the results of the last 4 years at least in that regard.

The war is a war.....there has never been a good war, there never will be.

What part does the RESULTS play in all of this. Is a temporary change in our freedoms worth the result. No Terrorist attacks?

I think most of us would shout NO from the roof tops......then again our nation is young. And most of us were not in the WTC or Pentagon, but a lot of us have been on planes. What would the people of Israel say? They are much a much younger county and yet have seen so much more terrorism. How about England and the IRA? How many bombs does it take to change your tolerance to loss of freedoms?


Maybe the lesson of Israel and Britain is that no amount of bombing should change the value of freedom. Does the American society have the testicular fortitude to stand behind that statement?

I really don't have answers. But I was a political science minor in college and to me the question is fascinating.

Trying to answer it is even more so.

[Rock45]

Well,
spelling doesnt count any way , does it?

No, remember folks it's size that doesn't count...isn't that right, wifey?

LOL

[Old Dog]

Maybe the lesson of Israel and Britain is that no amount of bombing should change the value of freedom.
The people of Great Britain have already willingly ceded over their civil liberties to their government. Cameras on every streetcorner; an unarmed citizenry; legislation to outlaw the sale of knives to those under age 18 -- the litany could go on and on ... As far as Israel goes -- I'd bet the amount of domestic spying carried out on Israeli citizens (given the sheer numbers of Arab folk in residence on Israeli soil) by the government there is far greater than we could imagine ...

[blackguns]

One more thing to add.

I asked if we have the B@lls to stand behind a "freedom at all cost" policy. I asked that because it is the natural opposite of the current policy.

There is evidence that this type of monitoring has stopped terrorist plots. It actually has likely (no one can ever know for sure) prevented the dealth of some ones friends and families. It has prevented the need for heroes like the ones on Flight 93 to give their lives for others. It has done good things.

I haven't seen evidence that it has been used to prevent loss of political power or support other less noble ends.

The whole idea does fly in the face of the spirit that the USA was started on, and therefore should be tighly controlled and always limited in scope and time frame. But it has not been ENTIRELY negative.

I'm trying to THINK, something a very memoriable teacher told me was the most important thing I could learn how to do.

Again no answers......just more questions.....

[pax]

How many of us have had a visit from a G man or seen ANY other negative result of this kind of monitoring?
When the canary in the mineshaft stops breathing, only a fool keeps going because he hasn't personally keeled over yet.

Or to put it more prosaically: that any American citizen's rights can be trampled upon by the American government, means that every American's rights are at risk.

(See my sig line for yet another way to say the same thing...)
What part does the RESULTS play in all of this. Is a temporary change in our freedoms worth the result. No Terrorist attacks?
There's a premise here I am not willing to accept on faith. You obviously believe that these rights violations are all temporary measures.

Perhaps they are -- but what guarantees that? "The natural course of things is for the government to gain ground, and liberty to yield," wrote Thomas Jefferson. Obviously he was born in a different era than our own, but I see no reason to believe that he was wrong.

Given the horrendous consequences of getting it wrong, I am as unwilling to accept the erasure of my human rights by the government as I would be to hand my firearm over and meekly surrender to a thug who promises not to harm me if I only allow him to tie me up naked. Perhaps being tied up and helpless is a temporary measure, and perhaps he won't harm me if I submit -- but should I take that risk? I don't think so.
I think most of us would shout NO from the roof tops......then again our nation is young. And most of us were not in the WTC or Pentagon, but a lot of us have been on planes. What would the people of Israel say? They are much a much younger county and yet have seen so much more terrorism. How about England and the IRA? How many bombs does it take to change your tolerance to loss of freedoms?
These questions are nothing new; they have been with us from the very founding of our country.

Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery?

My answer is the same as that of the man who first asked and answered that profoundly important question.

pax

He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his enemy from oppression. -– Thomas Paine

[Old Dog]

Pax is 100% correct here. You obviously believe that these rights violations are all temporary measures.The nature of government is to never give up any authority it has acquired. So fight it now, or live with it for the rest of your lives ...

[Sindawe]

How many of us have had a visit from a G man or seen ANY other negative result of this kind of monitoring? Not exact, but similar vein. Back in the late 90s, I started getting calls to my home phone from some hotels on East Colfax in Denver (not a good place, the term "Tenderloin" comes to mind). I was always at work when the calls came in, and since I knew nobody in that part of town, I thought nothing of it. A few months laters, I got a call from the office of Denver's Fire Marshall. Seems there'd been a fire in one of the rooms of those low rent hotels, and the call records showed calls to MY number :what: from the room that had burned. Mr. Marshall was very assertive in our conversation, asking just who I may know that would be calling me, what connections did I have to East Colfax, that sort of thing. Since I had no idea why somebody would be calling me, I was stumped, and the best thing I could offer was that it was a wrong number. Yes, several times, but still nobody I know.

It was a few weeks later that I got a call from a former associate from school, who round about asked about how to obtain certain chemicals, since I had worked in Biotech at the time. It was then that I made the connection 'tween a fire in a low rent hotel, East Colfax, and the fact that my former associates in school had developed a strong liking to certain stimulants about the time I'd dropped him in the mid 80s due to his choice of posion and lifestyle.

I think I dodged a bullet on that one.

[blackguns]

I'm not disagreeing with you guys at all. Just helping seed the discussion.

I will say that the short history of our nation shows that the powers of government do ebb and flow, honestly and ironically they ebb and flow based on the will of the people. As they should.

Typically during times of perceived conflict or threat the power of government expands, sometimes rapidly depending on the public tolerance for loss of freedom and the publics fear of the threat.

Governmental powers then contract when the people are no longer scared and the loss of freedom appears to loose justification. The Patriot act is a fine example, it was tolerated when most of us deemed that the temporary loss of freedom was worth it......now.....more than 4 years on with no new attacks in our back yards....not so much.

I have faith in the process and the people. The fear I have is the loss of a dissenting voice. That's exactly what happens when we all have a common fear.....the "conscience" of government goes away. When the politicos begin manipulating the balance, that makes me nervous.

I say we must stay vigilant and informed and voice our opinoins whatever they are, we all form the balanace that keeps the system in check over the long haul.

[Koobuh]

That is, railroaded himself into military prison.
Google up 'Ryan Anderson'.
I was one of his shooting buddies back at Washington State University, and we both attended the WSU Anime Club.
He was caught by .gov investigators making posts on a supposed Al Quaeda website, saying stuff like 'I want to join you' and giving (perfectly worthless, apparently) tips on where US armored vehicles are vulnerable. He was convicted of several counts of 'attempting to aid and give information to an enemy' by a military jury.
He is currently incarcerated, life with eligibility for parole, probably for at least a decade more, or until we clean up house in the middle east and Al Quaeda is defunct as an organization.

Incidentally, the Wikipedia article is not only incomplete, it is factually wrong on many counts. The most obvious one being Ryan's birth date, listed as 1989. Ryan is several years older than me, and I was born in 1979.

I was not close to the case, so I am not privy to any particulars. However, having known Ryan for a few years, I am not convinced that he deserved the severe sentance he received. Ryan suffers from a number of psychological problems that would normally mitigate incarceration. I would posit that he should have been screened out from military service to begin with, but that's neither here nor there.
(I don't dispute his guilt, that is established. However, my opinion is that he should have been dishonorably discharged, placed on probation, and given compulsory treatment.)
Additionally, the last direct communication I had with Ryan was an e-mail talking about himself and his tank crew naming their ride, as well as all the good stuff that was going on in his life, along with some trepidation- his unit was being sent to Iraq shortly. It was a dreadfully normal e-mail, down to his worrying about his wife while he was away.
That e-mail was sent a few months before his units' departure, and I attempted to get ahold of him to find out where I could send care packages, though he never answered further e-mails from me.

The next I heard about Ryan was on the evening television news broadcast.
I went to the small length of calling a Seattle news/talk station during broadcast to express my opinion on the matter- in effect, I did not believe the charges had merit, and the Ryan I knew would have done no such thing.

Anyway, everything has come and past since then. I really need to dig out his prison address and start sending him correspondance, I owe him that at least for teaching me how to shoot.

I KNOW that the day Ryan started posting on that website, some alphabet agency pulled up files on all of his known associates, which would have included myself and several others, for additional investigation. It is only a small leap of logic to conclude that I'm still on a watchlist, if a low priority one, to this day, and that all communication that can be linked to me is tapped or data-mined extensively.
Does it piss me off? Yeah, a little bit. There's nothing I can do about it, and I just have to hope that I'm not higher priority than I thought- i.e., on the 'terrorist watch list', and that my liberties might be in jeopardy.
However, I'm not going to let it control my life. I have plans to participate in an English teaching program in Asia, for example, and continue to buy arms and ammunition as part of my shooting hobby. I suppose I will find out pretty quickly if I'm on a 'no overseas travel' list when the time comes, though.

So, from someone that has VERY good justification for assuming that he's being watched- don't worry, live your lives without fear, and don't go on 'Al Quaeda' websites, because the .gov -will- come for you. ;)

[Gordon Fink]

I asked if we have the B@lls to stand behind a “freedom at all cost” policy. I asked that because it is the natural opposite of the current policy.

There is evidence that this type of monitoring has stopped terrorist plots.…

I would rather have every day be September 11th than see a single Constitutional right violated, but then I also maintain that the violation of our rights was what allowed the atrocities on September 11th to succeed in the first place.

~G. Fink

[Igloodude]

Governmental powers then contract when the people are no longer scared and the loss of freedom appears to loose justification. The Patriot act is a fine example, it was tolerated when most of us deemed that the temporary loss of freedom was worth it......now.....more than 4 years on with no new attacks in our back yards....not so much.

I have faith in the process and the people. The fear I have is the loss of a dissenting voice. That's exactly what happens when we all have a common fear.....the "conscience" of government goes away. When the politicos begin manipulating the balance, that makes me nervous.

Blackguns,
Thanks for a thoughtful post. With a PolySci degree in my pocket, I'm the same way - this is fascinating as a purely intellectual exercise.

I agree with you that in times of crisis, the people tend to hand the government more power. Wars are the best example of this. But as for the government ceding the power when the threat fades... What if the threat by its nature isn't likely to fade? How long have we been fighting the War on Drugs? The War on Poverty? I look at the War on Terror, and it occurs to me that it could possibly never end. Terrorist groups, motives, and ideologies might ebb and flow, but ask a Brit, or an Israeli, or an Indian how long they've been dealing with threats from very small numbers of violence-minded individuals. Our government could label Branch Davidian types as terrorist groups, or the KKK, or some extremist environmentalists, or anti-RioWall Mexican immigrants. It won't necessarily go away, there will never be a declaration of victory, and the rights we cede aren't likely to be seen again.

[Nio]

Heck, I report myself to Homeland Security as a suspicious person at least once a month. I just crave the attention or something... :evil:

Nio

[cz75bdneos22]

yEAH! I've got the hookup at the Department of Homeland Insecurity as We speak!!:evil: ...We know what you are doing...:what:

[Zedicus]

In No Way will it changei my posting habits.
and for 2 main reasons.

1. It's to late anyway.
2. I dont care what they think of me.

[Art Eatman]

Sort of a then vs. now: While I don't recall any specifics, I've read that various constitutional rights were violated during WW II. After the war ended, the behavior ceased due to a lack of perceived need.

To me, the change is that in today's style of evermore-intrusive government, the perceived need will remain unending. There seems to be an unending effort to make everybody fit into a round hole; sharp edges are abhorrent to government bureaucracies. The accomplishment of this smoothing requires information about everybody's behavior, lifestyle, income, spending patterns, and dangfino what else. Just look at the modern Census Long Form, for starters. I see it as all part and parcel of the smoothing effort, including such things as Echelon, Carnivore, and intrusion into your banking usage...

Art

[blackguns]

I guess my point is that as much as we feel that the government is "doing this to us" they really do respond to public pressure.

Do you think the Dems are playing the spying thing up because they feel it is wrong? No. They are whooping it up because they are seeking political advantage before the next congressional election cycle.

You will see Democrats take seats from Republicans if this keeps up. Why? Because we the people are not happy about the state of affairs.

The only thing politicians can be counted on to do is to seek power or seek to preserve power. That's fine, they are extremely predictable. It is our JOB and DUTY to take power from respresentatives that do not share the views of the people.


If the public outcry was horrible and loud the domestic spying thing would be outlawed, rapidly. Right now the spin teams on both sides are trying to find the pulse of the people.

Do we (the Dems) seem unpatriotic? Is that "feeling" passed, is the public now more concerned about civil liberties than security? How much can we push before it backfires?

The repubs are thinking how bad did this hurt us, do we come clean or cover up? Do we attack the dems or defend our position, after all...no new attacks...what is the public feeling....

The point is, in the end we hold the power, not on a daily basis but overall we say "yes you can continue in this position that we have given you" or we the people say "no, you cannot be trusted with our interests and you are being replaced by someone of our choosing".

We are seldom happy about the nitty gritty,(not that civil liberties are nitty gritty) 260 million of us are bound to not agree. But the system works and represents the majority as it is designed to do.

[wolf_from_wv]

Wow, I guess the conspiracy theorists were right about something....... :rolleyes:

Where are Will Smith and Gene Hackman when you need them? :rolleyes:

[DRZinn]

We'll just pass a new forum rule saying that no government monitoring is allowed! That'll stop it!

(Hey, it works for violent criminals, right?)

nuclear white house kill shoot bomb allah bin laden president bush

[wolf_from_wv]

I just got an email from Tower Hobbies...

The Warhead has arrived.

DuraTrax took aim against the three biggest weaknesses of monster trucks -- limited adjustability, difficult maintenance and high-speed instability -- and blew ‘em all away with the Warhead.
Adjustments? There’s no monster truck with more. There are 63 different shock mounting options alone -- and that’s just the beginning. The Warhead can go on-track, off-road or anywhere in-between -- and excel anywhere you like...

[Cosmoline]

When the Founding Fathers were ready to revolt, they sent a signed message to the King openly declaring their position. If it ever comes to that again, I hope to follow that example. I am not worried about the state spying on me.

[CentralTexas]

When the Founding Fathers were ready to revolt, they sent a signed message to the King openly declaring their position. If it ever comes to that again, I hope to follow that example. I am not worried about the state spying on me.


And then be arrested for treason or ? Or did you mean you would organize a militia and challenge the government to war?
It will have to be a "Unintended Consequences" scenario, not open warfare.
If the plan to get total roadway surveilance here (like in England by 2006) happens here we won't even be able to do that....
CT

[DRZinn]

The Warhead has arrived.LMSFAO!

(The "S" is for Sick.)

[enfield]

I would rather have every day be September 11th than see a single Constitutional right violated, but then I also maintain that the violation of our rights was what allowed the atrocities on September 11th to succeed in the first place.

You're one sick puppy. When you're dead, you don't need Constitutional rights. Dead people never have a good day.

[Ryder]

If the authorities don't like what I have to say they will just have to hunt me down (I'm easy to find) and kill me (good luck).

I've written things I didn't agree with the next day. So what? Should I be hunting myself down?

Typos should be a felony!

:D

[sm]

If'n you type a post - wear latex gloves and burn oil lamps.

Excuse me, I gotta buy stock in latex , lamps and lamp oil...

Might as well make money off this dealie...

If you build it - they will buy it.

[lbmii]

Excuse me for a second but there is this white van parked down the street from me. Funny but there was a white van parked outside my work today as well.

Oh hey there's two guys in gray suits walking up to my door and it sounds like a helicopter is right over my house.

[jrhines]

Cray #1 was shipped from the Cray Research Labs to Los Alamos Labs in 1976, they were not at NSA scanning US comms in 1971. How 'bout them apples?

[Sean Hofhine]

Should I change my bumper sticker from
HILLARYwith an '06
To
HILLARY 06





They sent military equipment, advisors, and tactics to Waco and burned 76 people to death. What'cha gonna do? Run and hide because a bunch of pencild**ks are sitting around with nothing better to do than sift through the meanderings of a wackjob like me. Change is coming one way or another, and I like the writings of John Ross myself.
SH

[Psssniper]

dont use any of these words in a post

Explosives, guns, assassination, conspiracy, primers, detonators, initiators, main charge, nuclear charges, ambush, sniping, motorcade, IRS, BATF, jtf-6, mjtf, hrt, srt, hostages, munitions, weapons, TNT, rdx, amfo, hmtd, picric acid, silver nitrite, mercury fulminate, presidential motorcade, salt peter, charcoal, sulfur, c4, composition b, amatol, petn, lead azide, lead styphante, ddnp, tetryl, nitrocellulose, nitrostarch, mines, grenades, rockets, fuses, delay mechanism, mortars, rpg7, propellants, incendiaries, incendiary device, thermite, security forces, intelligence, agencies, hrt, resistance, psyops, infiltration, assault team, defensive elements, evasion, detection, mission, communications, the football, platter charge, shaped charges, m118, claymore, body armor, charges, shrapnel, timers, timing devices, boobytraps, detcord, pmk 40, silencers, Uzi, HK-MP5, AK-47, FAL, Jatti, Skorpion MP, teflon bullets, cordite, napalm, law, Stingers, RPK, SOCIMI 821 SMG, STEN, BAR, MP40, HK-G3,FN-MAG, RPD,PzB39, Air Force One, M60, RPK74, SG530, SG540, Galil arm, Walther WA2000, HK33KE, Parker-Hale MOD. 82, AKR, Ingram MAC10, M3, L34A1, Walther MPL, AKS-74, HK-GR6, subsonic rounds, ballistic media, special forces, JFKSWC, SFOD-D! , SRT, Rewson, SAFE, Waihopai, INFOSEC, ASPIC, Information Security, SAI, Information Warfare, IW, IS, Privacy, Information Terrorism, Kenya, Terrorism Defensive Information, Defense Information Warfare, Offensive Information, Offensive Information Warfare, NAIA, SAPM, ASU, ECHELON ASTS, National Information Infrastructure, InfoSec, SAO, Reno, Compsec, JICS, Computer Terrorism, Firewalls, Secure Internet Connections, RSP, ISS, JDF, Passwords, NAAP, DefCon V, RSO, Hackers, Encryption, ASWS, Espionage, USDOJ, NSA, CIA, S/Key, SSL, FBI, Secret Service, USSS, Defcon, Military, White House, Undercover, NCCS, Mayfly, PGP, SALDV, PEM, resta, RSA, Perl-RSA, MSNBC, bet, AOL, AOL TOS, CIS, CBOT, AIMSX, STARLAN, 3B2, BITNET, Tanzania, SAMU, COSMOS, DATTA, E911, FCIC, HTCIA, IACIS, UT/RUS, JANET, ram, JICC, ReMOB, LEETAC, UTU, VNET, BRLO, SADCC, NSLEP, SACLANTCEN, FALN, 877, NAVELEXSYSSECENGCEN, BZ, CANSLO, CBNRC, CIDA, JAVA, rsta, Awarehouse, Active X, Compsec 97, RENS, LLC, DERA, JIC, ri! p, rb, Wu, RDI, Mavricks, BIOL, Meta-hackers, ^?, SADT, Steve Case, Tools, RECCEX, Telex, OTAN, monarchist, NMIC, NIOG, IDB, MID/KL, NADIS, NMI, SEIDM, BNC, CNCIS, STEEPLEBUSH, RG, BSS, DDIS, mixmaster, BCCI, BRGE, SARL, Military Intelligence, JICA, Scully, recondo, Flame, Infowar, Bubba, Freeh, Donaldson, Archives, ISADC, CISSP, Sundevil, jack, Investigation, JOTS, ISACA, NCSA, ASVC, spook words, RRF, 1071, Bugs Bunny, Verisign, Secure, ASIO, Lebed, ICE, NRO, Lexis-Nexis, NSCT, SCIF, FLiR, JIC, bce, Lacrosse, Bunker, Flashbangs, HRT, IRA, EODG, DIA, USCOI, CID, BOP, FINCEN, FLETC, NIJ, ACC, AFSPC, BMDO, site, SASSTIXS, NAVWAN, NRL, RL, NAVWCWPNS, NSWC, USAFA, AHPCRC, ARPA, SARD, LABLINK, USACIL, SAPT, USCG, NRC, ~, O, NSA/CSS, CDC, DOE, SAAM, FMS, HPCC, NTIS, SEL, USCODE, CISE, SIRC, CIM, ISN, DJC, bemd, SGC, UNCPCJ, CFC, SABENA, DREO, CDA, SADRS, DRA, SHAPE, bird dog, SACLANT, BECCA, DCJFTF, HALO, SC, TA SAS, Lander, GSM, T Branch, AST, SAMCOMM, HAHO, FKS, 868, GCHQ, DITSA, S! ORT, AMEMB, NSG, HIC, EDI, benelux, SAS, SBS, SAW, UDT, EODC, GOE, DOE, SAMF, GEO, JRB, 3P-HV, Masuda, Forte, AT, GIGN, Exon Shell, radint, MB, CQB, CONUS, CTU, RCMP, GRU, SASR, GSG-9, 22nd SAS, GEOS, EADA, SART, BBE, STEP, Echelon, Dictionary, MD2, MD4, MDA, diwn, 747, ASIC, 777, RDI, 767, MI5, 737, MI6, 757, Kh-11, EODN, SHS, ^X, Shayet-13, SADMS, Spetznaz, Recce, 707, CIO, NOCS, Halcon, NSS, Duress, RAID, Uziel, wojo, Psyops, SASCOM, grom, NSIRL, D-11, SERT, VIP, ARC, S.E.T. Team, NSWG, MP5k, SATKA, DREC, DEVGRP, DF, DSD, FDM, GRU, LRTS, SIGDEV, NACSI, MEU/SOC,PSAC, PTT, RFI, ZL31, SIGDASYS, TDM, SUKLO, SUSLO, TELINT, fake, TEXTA, ELF, LF, MF, SIGS, VHF, Recon, peapod, PA598D28, Spall, dort, 50MZ, 11Emc Choe, SATCOMA, UHF, SHF, ASIO, SASP, WANK, Colonel, domestic disruption, 5ESS, smuggle, Z- 200, 15kg, UVDEVAN, RFX, nitrate, OIR, Pretoria, M-14, enigma, Bletchley Park, Clandestine, NSO, nkvd, argus, afsatcom, CQB, NVD, Counter Terrorism Security, SARA, Rapid Reaction, JSOF! C3IP, Corporate Security, Police, sniper, PPS, ASIS, ASLET, TSCM, Security Consulting, M-x spook, Z-150T, High Security, Security Evaluation, Electronic Surveillance, MI-17, ISR, NSAS, Counterterrorism, real, spies, IWO, eavesdropping, debugging, CCSS, interception, COCOT, NACSI, rhost, rhosts, ASO, SETA, Amherst, Broadside, Capricorn, NAVCM, Gamma, Gorizont, Guppy, NSS, rita, ISSO, submiss, ASDIC, .tc, 2EME REP, FID, 7NL SBS, tekka, captain, 226, .45, nonac, .li, Ionosphere, Mole, Keyhole, NABS, Kilderkin, Artichoke, Badger, Emerson, Tzvrif, SDIS, T2S2, STTC, DNR, NADDIS, NFLIS, CFD, quarter, Cornflower, Daisy, Egret, Iris, JSOTF, Hollyhock, Jasmine, Juile, Vinnell, B.D.M., Sphinx, Stephanie, Reflection, Spoke, Talent, Trump, FX, FXR, IMF, POCSAG, rusers, Covert Video, Intiso, r00t, lock picking, Beyond Hope, LASINT, csystems, .tm, passwd, 2600 Magazine, JUWTF, Competitor, EO, Chan, Pathfinders, SEAL Team 3, JTF, Nash, ISSAA, B61-11, Alouette, executive, Event Security,! Mace, Cap-Stun, stakeout, ninja, ASIS, ISA, EOD, Oscor, Merlin, NTT, SL-1, Rolm, TIE, Tie-fighter, PBX, SLI, NTT, MSCJ, MIT, 69, RIT, Time, MSEE, Cable & Wireless, CSE, SUW, J2, Embassy, ETA, Fax, finks, Fax encryption, white noise, Fernspah, MYK, GAFE, forcast, import, rain, tiger, buzzer, N9, pink noise, CRA, M.P.R.I., top secret, Mossberg, 50BMG, Macintosh Security, Macintosh Internet Security, OC3, Macintosh Firewalls, Unix Security, VIP Protection, SIG, sweep, Medco, TRD, TDR, Z, sweeping, SURSAT, 5926, TELINT, Audiotel, Harvard, 1080H, SWS, Asset, Satellite imagery, force, NAIAG, Cypherpunks, NARF, 127, Coderpunks, TRW, remailers, replay, redheads, RX-7, explicit, FLAME, JTF-6, AVN, ISSSP, Anonymous, W, Sex, chaining, codes, Nuclear, 20, subversives, SLIP, toad, fish, data havens, unix, c, a, b, d, SUBACS, the, Elvis, quiche, DES, 1*, NATIA, NATOA, sneakers, UXO, (), OC-12, counterintelligence, Shaldag, sport, NASA, TWA, DT, gtegsc, owhere, .ch, hope, emc, industr! ial espionage, SUPIR, PI, TSCI, spookwords, industrial intelligence, H.N.P., SUAEWICS, Juiliett Class Submarine, Locks, qrss, loch, 64 Vauxhall Cross, Ingram Mac-10, wwics, sigvoice, ssa, E.O.D., SEMTEX, penrep, racal, OTP, OSS, Siemens, RPC, Met, CIA-DST, INI, watchers, keebler, contacts, Blowpipe, BTM, CCS, GSA, Kilo Class, squib, primacord, RSP, Z7, Becker, Nerd, fangs, Austin, no|d, Comirex, GPMG, Speakeasy, humint, GEODSS, SORO, M5, BROMURE, ANC, zone, SBI, DSS, S.A.I.C., Minox, Keyhole, SAR, Rand Corporation, Starr, Wackenhutt, EO, burhop, Wackendude, mol, Shelton, 2E781, F-22, 2010, JCET, cocaine, Vale, IG, Kosovo, Dake, 36,800, Hillal, Pesec, Hindawi, GGL, NAICC, CTU, botux, Virii, CCC, ISPE, CCSC, Scud, SecDef, Magdeyev, VOA, Kosiura, Small Pox, Tajik, +=, Blacklisted 411, TRDL, Internet Underground, BX, XS4ALL, wetsu, muezzin, Retinal Fetish, WIR, Fetish, FCA, Yobie, forschung, emm, ANZUS, Reprieve, NZC-332, edition, cards, mania, 701, CTP, CATO, Phon- e, Chicago! Posse, NSDM, l0ck, spook, keywords, QRR, PLA, TDYC, W3, CUD, CdC, Weekly World News, Zen, World Domination, Dead, GRU, M72750, Salsa, 7, Blowfish, Gorelick, Glock, Ft. Meade, NSWT, press- release, WISDIM, burned, Indigo, wire transfer, e-cash, Bubba the Love Sponge, Enforcers, Digicash, zip, SWAT, Ortega, PPP, NACSE, crypto-anarchy, AT&T, SGI, SUN, MCI, Blacknet, SM, JCE, Middleman, KLM, Blackbird, NSV, GQ360, X400, Texas, jihad, SDI, BRIGAND, Uzi, Fort Meade, *&, gchq.gov.uk, supercomputer, bullion, 3, NTTC, Blackmednet, :, Propaganda, ABC, Satellite phones, IWIS, Planet-1, ISTA, rs9512c, South Africa, Sergeyev, Montenegro, Toeffler, Rebollo, sorot, cryptanalysis, nuclear, 52 52 N - 03 03 W, Morgan, Canine, GEBA, INSCOM, MEMEX, Stanley, FBI, Panama, fissionable, Sears Tower, NORAD, Delta Force, SEAL, virtual, WASS, WID, Dolch, secure shell, screws, Black-Ops, O/S, Area51, SABC, basement, ISWG, $ @, data-haven, NSDD, black-bag, rack, TEMPEST, Goodwin, rebels, ID, MD5, ID! EA, garbage, market, beef, Stego, ISAF, unclassified, Sayeret Tzanhanim, PARASAR, Gripan, pirg, curly, Taiwan, guest, utopia, NSG, orthodox, CCSQ, Alica, SHA, Global, gorilla, Bob, UNSCOM, Fukuyama, Manfurov, Kvashnin, Marx, Abdurahmon, snullen, Pseudonyms, MITM, NARF, Gray Data, VLSI, mega, Leitrim, Yakima, NSES, Sugar Grove, WAS, Cowboy, Gist, 8182, Gatt, Platform, 1911, Geraldton, UKUSA, veggie, XM, Parvus, NAVSVS, 3848, Morwenstow, Consul, Oratory, Pine Gap, Menwith, Mantis, DSD, BVD, 1984, blow out, BUDS, WQC, Flintlock, PABX, Electron, Chicago Crust, e95, DDR&E, 3M, KEDO, iButton, R1, erco, Toffler, FAS, RHL, K3, Visa/BCC, SNT, Ceridian, STE, condor, CipherTAC-2000, Etacs, Shipiro, ssor, piz, fritz, KY, 32, Edens, Kiwis, Kamumaruha, DODIG, Firefly, HRM, Albright, Bellcore, rail, csim, NMS, 2c, FIPS140-1, CAVE, E-Bomb, CDMA, Fortezza, 355ml, ISSC, cybercash, NAWAS, government, NSY, hate, speedbump, joe, illuminati, BOSS, Kourou, Misawa, Morse, HF, P415, ladylove, fi! lofax, Gulf, lamma, Unit 5707, Sayeret Mat'Kal, Unit 669, Sayeret Golani, Lanceros, Summercon, NSADS, president, ISFR, freedom, ISSO, walburn, Defcon VI, DC6, Larson, P99, HERF pipe-bomb, 2.3 Oz., cocaine, $, impact, Roswell, ESN, COS, E.T., credit card, b9, fraud, ST1, assassinate, virus, ISCS, ISPR, anarchy, rogue, mailbomb, 888, Chelsea, 1997, Whitewater, MOD, York, plutonium, William Gates, clone, BATF, SGDN, Nike, WWSV, Atlas, IWWSVCS, Delta, TWA, Kiwi, PGP 2.6.2., PGP 5.0i, PGP 5.1, siliconpimp, SASSTIXS, IWG, Lynch, 414, Face, Pixar, IRIDF, NSRB, eternity server, Skytel, Yukon, Templeton, Johohonbu, LUK, Cohiba, Soros, Standford, niche, ISEP, ISEC, 51, H&K, USP, ^, sardine, bank, EUB, USP, PCS, NRO, Red Cell, NSOF, Glock 26, snuffle, Patel, package, ISI, INR, INS, IRS, GRU, RUOP, GSS, NSP, SRI, Ronco, Armani, BOSS, Chobetsu, FBIS, BND, SISDE, FSB, BfV, IB, froglegs, JITEM, SADF, advise, TUSA, LITE, PKK, HoHoCon, SISMI, ISG, FIS, MSW, Spyderco, UOP, SSCI, NIMA, HAMASMOIS, SVR, SIN, advisors, SAP, Monica, OAU, PFS, Aladdin, AG, chameleon man, Hutsul, CESID, Bess, rail gun, .375, Peering, CSC, Tangimoana Beach, Commecen, Vanuatu, Kwajalein, LHI, DRM, GSGI, DST, MITI, JERTO, SDF, Koancho, Blenheim, Rivera, Kyudanki, varon, 310, 17, 312, NB, CBM, CTP, Sardine, SBIRS, jaws, SGDN, ADIU, DEADBEEF, IDP, IDF, Halibut, SONANGOL, Flu, &, Loin, PGP 5.53, meta, Faber, SFPD, EG&G, ISEP, blackjack, Fox, Aum, AIEWS, AMW, RHL, Baranyi, WORM, MP5K-SD, 1071, WINGS, cdi, VIA, DynCorp, UXO, Ti, WWSP, WID, osco, Mary, honor, Templar, THAAD, package, CISD, ISG, BIOLWPN, JRA, ISB, ISDS, chosen, LBSD, van, schloss, secops, DCSS, DPSD, LIF, PRIME, SURVIAC, telex, SP4, Analyzer, embassy, Golf, B61-7, Maple, Tokyo, ERR, SBU, Threat, JPL, Tess, SE, EPL, SPINTCOM, ISS-ADP, Merv, Mexico, SUR, SO13, Rojdykarna, airframe, 510, EuroFed, Avi, shelter, Crypto AG.

:D :D

[Sam]

Consider how the NSA physically performs their operation. Now do you still think they do not monitor the web?
You will also understand that to do their job at all they pretty much listen to all the phones all the time everywhere in the world where the system isn't solid copper.


Sam

[Ryder]

Hahha Psssniper. I didn't recognize a few of those... Now where'd that search engine go?

[springmom]

The funny thing about the internet is that everybody seems to think what they write is private anyway. It isn't. All sorts of people read what we post. That is, after all, the idea of posting on a public forum.

In short, there is little difference betwen a speech in the public square and a speech on the internet.

That said, even if somebody in the government got in a snit about something I wrote, the last thing I'd do is change what I say. The Bill of Rights includes the First Amendment as well as the Second :p and I won't any more let the idea of a governmental agent monitoring my writing (or speaking) stop me from writing and speaking my mind than I will stop carrying and owning guns just because some people don't like that.

We must stand up for ALL our rights, and to change our posts because
Big Brother might be watching lets Big Brother win by default. :scrutiny:

That said, there is some speech that is NOT protected, most especially threatening speech. Don't go making threats of any sort and you should be fine.

My highly overinflated $.02.

Springmom

[wolf_from_wv]

dont use any of these words in a post
Stingers, IS, Privacy, AOL, BIOL, jack, Dictionary, fake, real, captain, Iris, Stephanie, Reflection, Spoke, Talent, Time, force, sneakers, keebler, contacts, guest, gorilla, Bob, BUDS, 1984, Gulf, Mary
:D :D

So, basically anyone who has ever posted "What IS going on here?" needs to be watched?

So, when MARY uses her FAKE ID to get STINGERS and some CAPTAIN and has cookies made by the KEEBLER elves, will she be able to tell her BUDS, STEPHANIE and JACK, why she lost her CONTACTS and wasn't on TIME for the meeting? Will she sign onto AOL to tell them why she can't look at her REFLECTION in the mirror and why she wears SNEAKERS all the TIME? What if she was born in a REAL small town on the GULF coast in 1984?

[afasano]

Do those jobs, reading everyone's post, pay well and how do I get one? :D ;)

[Bob]

No change. Born free, live free, die free.
Bob

[deanf]

are you worried your posts here or elsewhere are gonna end up in a file on some fed. agents desk?

If my messages do end up under scrutiny, there's no way they can link them to me (whoever I am.) How is it possible to link a message to the person who's hands actually pressed the keys to make it? It's not. Not until they start assigning IP addresses to peoples brains.

[lbmii]

I would say that they could link your posts to you in 10 to 15 minutes.

[Fidel Castro]

I would say that they could link your posts to you in 10 to 15 minutes.

And then if you won't admit if it was your wife or you that typed it, you both stay locked up indefinetly. A week's worth of water torture will change your tune. How about a cavity search every time you are let out of your cell to eat your meals because "you may be a 'domestic terrorist' hiding an illegal deadly weapon".

Don't be decieved, They will find out. "We have our ways, comrade deanf". lol:D

[grampster]

"Paranoia strikes deep. Into your heart it will creep"

[wolf_from_wv]

It starts when you're always afraid
Step out of line
The man come and take you away...

"It's not paranoia if they really are after you..." :rolleyes: Enemy of the State

[deanf]

I would say that they could link your posts to you in 10 to 15 minutes.

To my computer's IP address, not to me. How would they prove who actually laid fingers to keys to make the message? Unless I was stupid enough to admit to it, or they had a witness.

With all the spyware, phishing, and virii floating around in cyberspace, why anyone could have trojan-horsed my computer into sending any message in any format they wanted. That's reasonable doubt to me.

[Guy B. Meredith]

No. About 99% of the stuff I am seeing is based on lack of knowledge of NSA function. The NSA is not about all the hysterical gobldegook floating around.

[Archie]

Psssniper;

My hat is off to you for your sense of the absurd and the amount to time it had to take to type all those ‘sensitive’ words. Far too funny. (And far too much time on your hands…)

Ladies and Gentlemen:

Isn’t it a bit late to be worried about posting and maybe being ‘found out’ by some ‘secret government agent’? What does anyone think “LawDog” does for a living? I’ve mentioned a couple times I’m a federal lawman. There are a couple others who are regulars here who make no secret they are also lawmen of some type or other.

Anyone having a brain featuring more than two functioning cells will understand this is a public forum. In dog years, that means it is open to the public. Therefore, anyone can read it and there is no expectation of privacy.

If anyone here posts information demonstrating a potential crime, or a committed crime, be very sure one or more others will contact appropriate authorities and make an introduction.

And just for the record, What is the difference between ‘investigating’ and ‘spying’? I keep hearing about NSA and other U.S. agencies ‘spying’ on people. Is that the same as investigating? Is it just the word ‘spying’ sounds so much more sinister?

[igor]

I don't give a d@mn, I'm Finnish. :)

[coma]

It changes nothing for me....I came into this world not giving a crap what other people think or say and i will go out the same way......I also know I am the last person that the FBI,DHS, NSA *cough*( KGB ) is ever going to be interested in. No matter what i say here or any other place!

[Chairman Meow]

How could someone be vehemently against infringement of the 2nd ammendment and lackadaisical about a complete violation of other constitutionally guaranteed rights? Just doesn't make sense to me. Constitutional law operates largely on precedent, and this is a pretty bad one if you ask me. If this administration is willing to spy on it's own citizens without due process, it would be foolish to think they give a d@mn about any of your other rights, least of all gun ownership.

- CM

[McCall911]

I didn't realize that it was news that the NSA spied on Americans. :D :evil:

[Mad Chemist]

I didn't realize that it was news that the NSA spied on Americans. :D :evil:

Believing it ten years ago would have earned one a spot in the Tinfoil Hat Club.:cool:

[McCall911]

Believing it ten years ago would have earned one a spot in the Tinfoil Hat Club.:cool:


Well...I do know this much, for as long as thirty years or so: Let's just say that if you get far enough in the application process for the National Security Agency then you'll find out what they are capable of!

[Sinsaba]

Maybe I got it wrong ...

As I understand it, they were monitoring calls from suspected terrorists originating outside the US. ...

<sigh>... never mind... it isn't worth it. Go ahead and believe that the Government is out to get you.

[Lobotomy Boy]

It changes nothing for me....I came into this world not giving a crap what other people think or say and i will go out the same way......I also know I am the last person that the FBI,DHS, NSA *cough*( KGB ) is ever going to be interested in. No matter what i say here or any other place!

Coma, check out this FBI brochure that another member posted on line:

Page one: http://keepandbeararms.com/images/FBI-MCSOTerroristFlyer-Front.jpg

Page two:http://keepandbeararms.com/images/FBI-MCSOTerroristFlyer-Back.jpg

Note that you fit the profile if you consider yourself a "defender of the US Constitution" or if you "Make numerous references to US Constitution."

Now are you so sure that the "terrorist" being monitored is not you?

[McCall911]

Well...I do know this much, for as long as thirty years or so: Let's just say that if you get far enough in the application process for the National Security Agency then you'll find out what they are capable of!

But don't get me wrong.

I believe the NSA has done, and continues to do, far more good for our country than most people will ever realize. But, no, I don't believe the agency will be "out to get" any of us for voicing an opinion on a message board.

[Gene Beasley]

Then again, I remind myself each time I post that I am using my real name to keep me from putting my foot in my mouth (even though it still happens).

Being prudent with what you say on the internet is no different than deciding it's better to just shut your pie-hole in the middle of an angry mob.

[CGofMP]

From day one I have posted to the web only those things that would tend to make me look like a complete creampuff.

I assiduously watch my own posts so I do not dicusss the marijuana green house I set up in our basement that draws illegal power from the main power lines running over our back yard.

I also try to not talk about the computer hacking I have been doing on stolen US Government computers which I bought from some guy who stole them from Los Alimos National Laboratory in New Mexico. These are good computers too! I mean after I defragged their hard drives I was able to get atomic weapon plans which I was alble ot sell to the Al Queda terrorists in exchange for some nice full automatic rifles (of which I sold 3 of to my Meth Dealer).

The stolen USG computers are also very good for distributing child pornography but you can bet I wont talk aboput THAT in the clear either! No sir ree bob! If any police officers made it past my hand grenade protected back door (oh that boobytrap project idea came from my buds in the Crips - helpful guys) they would likely find me beating my wife with the body of our dog and I can not imagine the amount of trouble that might cause since her stepfather is the leader of the local Hells Angels and constantly talks about assasinating the pr...


Seriously however.... I think Pax put it best early in this thread.... I quote those words of absolute wisdom here: "When I started posting online, I figured that anything I said could easily be traced back to me, personally, by anyone who cared enough to put some legwork into it.

So I decided a long time ago to only post stuff I wouldn't mind saying in public, in person, to whomever I was talking to, with the whole world listening in. I figured I only had one reputation, regardless of what username I used, and I've acted accordingly. It's kept me out of a lot of grief.

[jeepmor]

They don't even give a ???? about Bin Laden already, you think they're gonna worry about me, come on now, don't be silly.

How do you think Bin Laden would have turned out inside these borders. Ask David Koresh or some of the folks from Ruby Ridge.

nuff said



jeepmor

[Lobotomy Boy]

They don't even give a ???? about Bin Laden already, you think they're gonna worry about me, come on now, don't be silly.


They do give a Shiite about Bin Laden. They need him, and they need him alive and free so they can use him as a focal point to define this vague war on terror. Without Osama or the WOT, how would they trick us sheep into handing over our liberty?

If they wanted Bin Laden, they would have caught him. There is no possible way that our government could not have caught him if it had marshalled all its forces to do so. The only explanations that make sense are that either our government didn't really want to catch him or else our leaders are so mind-bogglingly inept that they shouldn't be managing a local Kwiki Mart, much less the world's most powerful country.

[ulflyer]

:or else our leaders are so mind-bogglingly inept that they shouldn't be managing a local Kwiki Mart, much less the world's most powerful country.

I suscribe to the above, but Hillery will get us straightened out shortly. :cuss:

[Lobotomy Boy]

I suscribe to the above, but Hillery will get us straightened out shortly.

The best hope some Democratic twinkie like Hilary has for being elected is for the Republican party to continue refraining from holding its leaders responsible for their own ineptness.

The Republicans have less than a year to clean house or we're going to have a Democratic congress with the lamest of lame duck Republican presidents about this time next year. A Democratic congress will do much more harm than a Democratic president ever could.

You can keep telling yourself that this won't happen, but look at how far the Bush administration has fallen in just one year. What do you see happening in the future that makes you think this won't get anything but worse?

[Guy B. Meredith]

I disagree with the idea that Bin Laden is available and allowed to roam for political purposes.

A few years back a certain individual shot an abortion clinic doctor and, I believe, set an explosive near a clinic. He went up and hid in the hills in known territory in our own country, was possibly helped by associates for a while and eluded capture for a couple of years.

He was finally captured when he was found digging food out of a trash bin. Dunno what happened to the local support. Would not have been captured yet if he had support, though.

Right here in the good old US of A.

If we can't locate a criminal within the fully mapped US borders what makes it any easier to capture Bin Laden from behind a wall of local tribal supporters? The Pakistani government can't even go into some of these areas.

[DRZinn]

Careful, Guy, you're in danger of injecting some logic into the discussion....

[CTI1USNRET]

In God We Trust

All others we .......

I forgot. I promise.

[wolf_from_wv]

I got a message today from tower hobbies... The Warhead comes with $200 of hopups... :)

=========

They finally played Enemy of the State on TV over the weekend. I'm suprised they waited so long...

[Gatman]

Heck, I report myself to Homeland Security as a suspicious person at least once a month. I just crave the attention or something... :evil:

Nio


LOL

[steavoyd]

I have always assumed that ATF or perhaps some other nouveau gestapo bureau of the government has been reading websites having to do with weapons as long as such sites have existed.

Listening to phone calls longer than that.

The government of this country bears no resemblance to the government the founders established.

If you expect minimal adherence to anything from our government, think again.