Whats with all the different Hoppes solvents?


December 20, 2005, 08:04 PM
I went to Gander Mountain today to buy my "annual" keg of gun cleaning solvent, and noticed something.... I normally use just Shooter's Choice, but because it "stinks" (my wife's opinion), Im looking to use Hoppes. I didnt realize all the different formulations were available nowdays, outside of the regular #9 type. What kind do you recommend for powder and copper removal? Thanks-

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December 20, 2005, 09:55 PM
I think it's because so many shooters use #9 as aftershave... they wanted to provide some variety!


December 20, 2005, 09:56 PM
You went all the way to GM (I'd guess the one in Plainfield) rather then going to Rinks on Archer Ave ??? :D

"Regular" Hoppes works just fine, but if you have a LOT of copper build up. Use the "Copper Removing" Hoppes. Ammonia works pretty well also.

You might want to do a search for "Copper Removal" or words to that effect. I remember seeing a thread or twelve on that subject recently.

December 20, 2005, 09:57 PM
All I use is #9 and have no need for anything else. My guns get clean and that's all that matters.

December 20, 2005, 10:00 PM
Your wife's right, Shooter's Choice STINX TO HIGH HEAVEN!:banghead: Of course Hoppe's isn't much better. Regular #9 is bad enough, but the Copper Solvent is almost as bad as SC! Haven't tried all of them if there's that many, but so far the only cleaner I've found with a distinctly pleasant, home friendly fragrance is RIG 2.

Standing Wolf
December 20, 2005, 11:02 PM
Hoppe's No. 9 is fine for stainless and blued guns, but should not be used on nickel-plated guns: it attacks the copper that's plated on before the nickel, so if there's any microscopic imperfection in the nickel, you'll end up with blisters.

December 21, 2005, 03:19 AM
I recieved some small sample tubes of Hopps Elite which does not stink, hardly any odor at all. The stuff works fine for me. The problem is I can't find any in my local stores. Jim.

December 21, 2005, 03:30 AM
Hoppes Elite and MPro-7 are the same product as is Butch's Bore Shine for black powder.
This stuff under which ever label you buy it will solve all your stink problems with gun cleaning and is a far superior cleaning product. Just be sure to relube and recoat the metal surfaces of your guns when you're done cleaning as it strips the dirt, oil, and grime down to the very molocule of the metal................but it makes your lube and rust protection work better as a result.

December 21, 2005, 03:35 AM
i think the newer Hoppes Elite series of products seem to be the "Cat's Meow" :p YMMV..:evil:

December 21, 2005, 04:37 AM
So what did that replace the ammonia in #9 with in this elite?

Yes, I am a die hard #9 fan for carbon build up.

December 21, 2005, 07:49 AM
And you can still get the original #9 with Nitrobenzene in it...


December 21, 2005, 08:03 AM
I have a large bottle of #9 that I've had for years. Does what I want it to do, but it doesn't say on the bottle that it has "nitro...." in it. I assume that means it does not?

Molon Labe
December 21, 2005, 08:56 AM
All I use is #9 and have no need for anything else. My guns get clean and that's all that matters.Yea, I've been using Hoppes more and more. Especially after I "discovered" #9 does a good job of removing copper if you leave it soak overnight.

Hoppe's No. 9 is fine for stainless and blued guns, but should not be used on nickel-plated guns: it attacks the copper that's plated on before the nickel, so if there's any microscopic imperfection in the nickel, you'll end up with blisters.I just ordered a .22 w/ nickel-plated barrel. What should I use to clean the bore?

December 21, 2005, 09:20 AM
Yeah, a few benchresters swear by the stuff, so Lester stocked up on it.

You don't see many BR shooters (at least the ones who win...) using #9...

You need something that will go after copper for a rifle. I prefer Butch's Bore Shine. I know Butch Fisher, and he put together a good mix. I also know the Shooters Choice guy, but I use Butch's... I understand that Tom Meredith's solvent (see Sinclair's web site) is very popular with .22 rimfire shooters.

December 21, 2005, 09:20 AM
I use the copper solvent #9 from Hoppes, it does a good job on all fouling especially on barrels that tend to load up with copper fouling, I leave it overnight and patch, amazing how much green will show on a patch from a barrel you assume is clean...If I ever find a woman who uses it for perfume,,I'll marry her! Love that smell...:D

Camp David
December 21, 2005, 09:28 AM
Isn't there a Hoppes #9 Light? Less filling? :p

December 21, 2005, 09:51 AM
I really have come to enjoy using SLIP 2000, the product line is non toxic. There is no real scent of a cleaner! The carbon cutter formula works wonders on AR bolts, revolver cylinders, and over all I have no complaints! So, there is no noxious odor. I still use a tad of SC once in a while but with the window open, and a fan blowing!

December 21, 2005, 03:51 PM
GunSlick has some Ultra Klenz that smells like "cedar". It doesnt smell like cedar but its not a bad scent.

December 21, 2005, 04:04 PM
I went to Gander Mountain today to buy my "annual" keg of gun cleaning solvent



EDIT: I meant to point out... Ed's Red isn't the cat's meow for removing copper, but if you want to have a "keg" of general purpose solvent around, it's hard to beat this. Then just use smaller quantities of specialized copper solvent on an as-needed basis.

Since I mixed my first "Ed's Red" (ER) bore cleaner five years ago, hundreds of users have told me that they find it as effective as commercial products. This cleaner has an action similar to military rifle bore cleaner, such as Mil-C-372B. Itaner, such as Mil-C-372B. It is highly effective for removing plastic fouling from shotgun bores, caked carbon inn semi-automatic rifles or pistols, or leading in revolvers. "ER" is not a "decoppering" solution for fast removal of heavy jacket fouling, but because is more effective in removal of caked carbon and primer residues than most other cleaners, so metal fouling is reduced when "ER" is used.

I researched the subject rather thoroughly and determined there was no technical reason why an effective firearm bore cleaner couldn't be mixed using common hardware store ingredients. The resulting cleaner is safe, effective, inexpensive, provides excellent corrosion protection and adequate residual lubrication. Routine oiling after cleaning is unnecessary except for storage exceeding 1 year, or in harsh environments, such as salt air exposure.

The formula is adapted from Hatcher's "Frankford Arsenal Cleaner No.18," but substitutes equivalent modern materials. Hatcher's recipe called for equal parts of acetone, turpentine, Pratts Astral Oil and sperm oil, and (optionally) 200 grams of anhydrous lanolin per liter into the cleaner.

Some discussion of the ingredients in ER is helpful to understand the properties of the cleaner and how it works. Pratts Astral Oil was nothing more than acidg more than acid free, deodorized kerosene. Today you would ask for "K1" kerosene of the type sold for use in indoor space heaters.

An inexpensive, effective substitute for sperm oil is Dexron III automatic transmission fluid. Prior to 1950 most ATF's were sperm oil based. During WWII sperm oil was mostly unavailable, so highly refined, dewaxed hydrofinished petroleum oils were developed, which had excellent thermal stability. When antioxidants were added to prevent gumming these worked well in precision instruments.

With the high demand for automatic transmission autos after WWII, sperm oil was no longer practical to produce ATFs in the needed quantities needed, so the wartime expedients were mass produced. ATFs have been continually improved over the years. The additives contained in Dexron include detergents or other surfactants which are highly suitable for inclusion in an all-purpose cleaner, lubricant and preservative.

Hatcher's Frankford Arsenal No. 18 used gum spirits of turpentine, but turpentine is both expensive and also highly flammable, so I chose not to use it. Much safer and more inexpensive are "aliphatic mineral spirits," which are an open-chain organic solvent, rather than the closed-chain, benzene ring structure, commontructure, common to "aromatics," such as naptha or "lighter fluid." Sometimes called "safety solvent," aliphatic mineral spirits are used for thinning oil based paint, as automotive parts cleaner and is commonly sold under the names "odorless mineral spirits," "Stoddard Solvent" or "Varsol".

Acetone is included to provide an aggressive, fast-acting solvent for caked smokeless powder residues. Because acetone readily evaporates and the fumes are harmful in high concentrations, it is recommended that it be left out if the cleaner will be used indoors, in soak tanks or in enclosed spaces lacking forced air ventilation. Containers should be kept tightly closed when not in use. ER is still effective without acetone, but not as "fast-acting."

"Ed's Red" does not chemically dissolve copper fouling in rifle bores, but it does a better job of removing carbon and primer residue than most other cleaners. Many users have told me, that frequent and exclusive use of "ER" reduces copper deposits, because it removes the old impacted powder fouling left behind by other cleaners. This reduces the abrasion and adhesion of jacket metal to the bore, leaving a cleaner surface condition which reduces subsequent fouling. Experience indicatesrience indicates that "ER" will actually remove metal fouling in bores if it is left to "soak," for a few days so the surfactants will do the job, when followed by a repeat cleaning. You simply have to be patient.

Addition of lanolin to ER is optional, because the cleaner works perfectly well and gives adequate corrosion protection and lubrication without it. Inclusion of lanolin makes the cleaner easier on the hands, increases its lubricity and film strength and improves corrosion protection if firearms, tools or equipment will be routinely exposed to salt air, water spray, or corrosive urban atmospheres.

I recommend the lanolin included if you intend to use the cleaner as a protectant for long term storage or for a "flush" after water cleaning of black powder firearms or those fired with military chlorate primers. This is because lanolin has a great affinity for water and readily emulsifies so that the bore can be wiped of residual moisture, leaving a protective film. If you inspect your guns and wipe them down twice yearly, you can leave out the lanolin and save about $10 per gallon.

At current retail prices you can buy all the ingredients to mix ER, without the lanolin for about $12 per gallon. I urge you to mix some yourself. I ame yourself. I am confident it will work as well for you as it does for me and hundreds of users who got the "recipe" on the Fidonet Firearms Echo.

CONTENTS: Ed's Red Bore Cleaner


1 part Dexron ATF, GM Spec. D-20265 or later.

1 part Kerosene - deodorized, K1

1 part Aliphatic Mineral Spirits

CAS #64741-49-9, or substitute "Stoddard Solvent", CAS #8052-41-3, or equivalent.

1 part Acetone, CAS #67-64-1.

(Optional 1 lb. of Lanolin, Anhydrous, USP per gallon, or OK to substitute Lanolin, Modified, Topical Lubricant, from the drug store)


Mix outdoors, in good ventilation. Use a clean 1 gallon metal, chemical-resistant, heavy gage PET or PVC plastic container. NFPA approved plastic gasoline storage containers are OK. Do NOT use HDPE, which is permeable, because the acetone will slowly evaporate. Acetone in ER will attack HDPE over time, causing the container to collapse, making a heck of a mess!

Add the ATF first. Use the empty container to measure the otherainer to measure the other components, so that it is thoroughly rinsed. If you incorporate the lanolin into the mixture, melt this carefully in a double boiler, taking precautions against fire. Pour the melted lanolin it into a larger container, rinsing the lanolin container with the bore cleaner mix, and stirring until it is all dissolved. I recommend diverting up to 4 ozs. per quart of the 50-50 ATF/kerosene mix to use as "ER-compatible" gun oil. This can be done without impairing the effectiveness of the remaining mix. Label and safety warnings follow:



Contents: petroleum distillates, surfactants, organometallic antioxidants and acetone.

1. Flammable mixture, keep away from heat, sparks or flame.

2. FIRST AID, If swallowed DO NOT induce vomiting, call physician immediately. In case of eye contact immediately flush thoroughly with water and call a physician. For skin contact wash thoroughly.

3. Use with adequate ventilation. Avoid breathing vapors or spray mist. It is a violation of Federal law to use this product in a manner inconsistent with itsonsistent with its labeling. Reports have associated repeated and prolonged occupational overexposure to solvents with permanent brain and nervous system damage. If using in closed armory vaults lacking forced air ventilation wear respiratory protection meeting NIOSH TC23C or equivalent. Keep container tightly closed when not in use.


1. Open the firearm action and ensure the bore is clear. Cleaning is most effective when done while the barrel is still warm from firing. Saturate a cotton patch with bore cleaner, wrap or impale on jag and push it through the bore from breech to muzzle. The patch should be a snug fit. Let the first patch fall off and do not pull it back into the bore.

2. Wet a second patch, and similarly start it into the bore from the breech, this time scrubbing from the throat area forward in 4-5" strokes and gradually advancing until the patch emerges out the muzzle. Waiting approximately 1 minute to let the bore cleaner soak will improve its action.

3. For pitted, heavily carbon-fouled service rifles, leaded revolvers or neglected bores a bronze brush wet with bore cleaner may be used to remove stubborn deposits. This is unnecessary for smooth, target-grade barrels in routine use.
routine use.

4. Use a final wet patch pushed straight through the bore to flush out loosened residue dissolved by Ed's Red. Let the patch fall off the jag without pulling it back into the bore. If you are finished firing, leaving the bore wet will protect it from rust for 1 year under average atmospheric conditions.

5. If lanolin is incorporated into the mixture, it will protect the firearm from rust for up to two years, even in a humid environment. (For longer storage use Lee Liquid Alox or Cosmolene). "ER" will readily remove hardened Alox or Cosmolene.

6. Wipe spilled Ed's Red from exterior surfaces before storing the gun. While Ed's Red is harmless to blue and nickel finishes, the acetone it contains is harmful to most wood finishes.

7. Before firing again, push two dry patches through the bore and dry the chamber, using a patch wrapped around a suitably sized brush or jag. First shot point of impact usually will not be disturbed by Ed's Red if the bore is cleaned as described.

8. I have determined to my satisfaction that when Ed's Red is used exclusively and thoroughly, that hot water cleaning is unnecessary after use of Pyrodex or military chlorate primers. However, if bores are not wiped between shots and shots and areand shots and are heavily caked from black powder fouling, hot water cleaning is recommended first to break up heavy fouling deposits. Water cleaning should be followed by a flush with Ed's Red to prevent after-rusting which could result from residual moisture. It is ALWAYS good practice to clean TWICE, TWO DAYS APART whenever using chlorate primed ammunition, just to make sure you get all the corrosive residue out.

This "Recipe" has been placed in the public domain, and may be freely distributed provided that it is done so in its entirely with all current revisions, instructions and safety warnings included herein, and that proper attribution is given to the author.

December 21, 2005, 04:57 PM
Hopps Elite is good stuff

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