Amusing Gun Store Lawyer Story


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MikeIsaj
December 20, 2005, 08:29 PM
So I went to my favorite gun store this weekend for ammo. While there I encountered a gun store lawyer. I started talking to him, I don't know why, and soon began to push his buttons. Mind you what followed was more to rile him up than to make a legal arguement. The subject of legal carry on school grounds in Pa. came up and he proceeded to blabber about how "it's all over the books that you cannot carry within 1000ft. of a school. I live 230ft from an elementary school. I called BS on the 1000ft rule and challenged him on that. When I cited ss912 of the Crimes Code (restricting weapons on school property, his response was "I can't discuss this with you if you are going to cite the law.":banghead:
End of discussion. What do you say to people like this?

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omnivore75
December 20, 2005, 08:33 PM
The old joke about whats 1000 lawyers at the bottom of the ocean seems like a good starting point. His argument was pathetic. The way he says it anyonw who lives within 1000 feet of a school loses their constitutional right to bear arms on their own property. I don't think so.

taliv
December 20, 2005, 08:34 PM
What do you say to people like this?

usually, "welcome to the internet!"

SIOP
December 20, 2005, 08:48 PM
The 1000 foot rule is codified in Federal law. There are exceptions, such as if you are on private property and if you have a CCW from the state the school is located in, etc.

omnivore75
December 20, 2005, 10:04 PM
Yeah thats how I understood it. From what little I have read about it that is.

Majic
December 20, 2005, 10:18 PM
Why intentionally push a stranger's buttons? That's a good way to find an unwanted surprise.

hillbilly
December 20, 2005, 10:23 PM
What do you say to people like that?

Bye-bye..................


hillbilly

Standing Wolf
December 20, 2005, 10:54 PM
What do you say to people like this?

I just laugh and shake my head and walk away.

DagoRed
December 20, 2005, 11:14 PM
What do you say to people like this?

I say "nice talking to you Dan Rather", and I walk away. :D

Gimme.50
December 20, 2005, 11:25 PM
What do you say to people like this?

To a lawyer that says they don't want to carry on a conversation with you if you're going to cite the law, you say "well alright, lets talk about something you know about...next topic, sodomy?" Then wait for the surprised look....wait for it....waaiiiittt...there it is! :what:

El Tejon
December 21, 2005, 08:38 AM
No statute on THAT here, so if you . . . oops, never mind.:evil:

Do not feel so bad. One of my book projects is to do a book on what people think the law is.:D

We can do a 24 page thread on the stupid legal proclamations we have heard at gun shows and gun shoppes.:evil:

What to say? "Welcome to the gun culture.";)

Preacherman
December 21, 2005, 08:41 AM
Hah! You guys obviously haven't yet met a gunshop lawyer who was also a Navy SEEL and who carries a full-auto M4 in his car trunk with a special Government license and who can't tell you anything about the call-up he was just on where he just got back from Iraq but he really can't talk about it because if he did he'd have to kill you and did you know that there's this new super-secret ammo for the 9mm that makes it twice as lethal as the .50 BMG?

:evil: :D :neener:

Tory
December 21, 2005, 08:43 AM
"To a lawyer that says they don't want to carry on a conversation with you if you're going to cite the law, you say 'well alright, lets talk about something you know about...next topic, sodomy?'"

Try READING the post. It wasn't a real lawyer; it was a Gun Store Lawyer. :scrutiny:

As in, Mall Ninjas, Gun Show "Operators" and the like. :rolleyes:

another okie
December 21, 2005, 08:44 AM
I thought the phrase "gun shop lawyer" was like "jail house lawyer" or "range lawyer" and didn't necessarily mean someone who actually was a lawyer, but someone who thought they knew the law.

The really sad thing is that gun laws are in fact so complex that it's not surprising at all that people make mistakes. In fact, all our laws are way too complex. In a democracy the citizens should be able to understand the laws they live under. I went to a tax law seminar last week and the speaker said there had been 15,000 changes to the Internal Revenue Code since 1986.

Camp David
December 21, 2005, 08:44 AM
The 1000 foot rule is codified in Federal law. There are exceptions, such as if you are on private property and if you have a CCW from the state the school is located in, etc.

It is absolutely ridiculous and asinine, whether federal law or not! What schools need to do is embrace firearms and offer training classes, NRA instruction, et al., not ban them! Lawyers involved in education yields ignorance! What is the point of schools flat out rejecting and denying the second Amendment? It is patently absurd!

Henry Bowman
December 21, 2005, 09:08 AM
One of my book projects is to do a book on what people think the law is. I'd like to contribute a chapter on IP law.


The worst "gun store lawyers" I ever encounter are behind the counter. Whenever they can't explain a stupid store policy, they usually revert to "it's against federal law," expecting that no one really knows the law. They certainly don't.

I also get the same nonsense from clerks in posted "no guns" stores. They like to justify their or their boss's bigotry and ignorance by blaming the "law." When I point out their error, they then usually shift to saying that the boss "belongs to the NRA" and "is a hunter," as if that somehow makes up for it.:confused: :banghead:

CAS700850
December 21, 2005, 09:25 AM
Henry makes a good point, many of the "best/worst" experts on the law I have met worked in gun shops. I was in a shop fairly recently and was asking about any police trade-ins. This expert proceeded to tel me that Bill Clinton signed a law that made it illegal for the police to trade in guns, and all old police guns had to be destroyed. This took me by surprise, as I work with the local SWAT units on contracts involving trading in old issue and confiscated/forfeited firearms for new equipment. After a moment of trying to explain this to the gentleman, I thanked him for his time and left.

Of course, he was telling me that a new Taurus model 85 really did cost $550...:rolleyes:

22-rimfire
December 21, 2005, 09:46 AM
I don't really understand what a "gun store lawyer" is. If you mean someone who is NOT an attorney who offers interpretations of the law or legal advice as they know or understand it, then I would have to say that most of us that post on this forum would qualify. I always like the phrase, "I'm not an attorney, but.....". That certainly qualifies the advice provided so there is little misunderstanding; Meaning the advice is probably worth what you paid for it.

Father Knows Best
December 21, 2005, 09:47 AM
I thought the phrase "gun shop lawyer" was like "jail house lawyer" or "range lawyer" and didn't necessarily mean someone who actually was a lawyer, but someone who thought they knew the law.

+1. I'm confident that Mike wasn't referring to a real lawyer. These guys are referred to as "gun shop lawyers" because they're ignorant loudmouths who like to make everyone else think they know everything there is to know about the law. It makes them feel important. In reality, all they know are the various rumors they picked up on the internet, and bits and pieces of articles in gun mags that they didn't really understand. They also tend to be self-proclaimed "experts" on lots of other topics, and will happily expound on stopping power of various cartridges, why certain guns are POS, etc.

I happen to be a real, honest-to-goodness, attorney, with a law degree and a licenses in three states. One of my personal mantras is, "always know what you don't know." I know a lot more about gun laws than your average gun enthusiast, or even your average lawyer, but I'm no expert. There are still lots of things I don't know. I also make it a rule never to get into arguments with gun shop lawyers. After all, to adapt an old saying, "Who is the fool -- the fool or the fool who argues with a fool?"

MrKandiyohi
December 21, 2005, 09:50 AM
"To a lawyer that says they don't want to carry on a conversation with you if you're going to cite the law, you say 'well alright, lets talk about something you know about...next topic, sodomy?'"

Try READING the post. It wasn't a real lawyer; it was a Gun Store Lawyer. :scrutiny:

As in, Mall Ninjas, Gun Show "Operators" and the like. :rolleyes:

That was a bad analogy. While a Gun Store Lawyer isn't a real lawyer, a Mall Ninja is a REAL ninga. I know I'm right. I've actually seen one over by the food court.

poppy
December 21, 2005, 10:22 AM
Well guys, I met a couple of "gun show lawyers" this past week end. I was carrying around my Inglis Hi Power with attached shoulder stock. There aren't too many of those around these parts (SW Ohio) and several table vendors were interested in looking at it.

More than once, while showing my pistol/rifle, I was informed that those are "against the law." I was not expecting that kind of statement, so I just laughed it off. poppy

72Rover
December 21, 2005, 10:36 AM
"I can't discuss this with you if you are going to cite the law."
End of discussion. What do you say to people like this?

I like to end with my favorite Mark Twain quote:

"I refuse to get into a battle of wits with a clearly unarmed person." Then walk away.

I've used this a couple of times and the look on the recipient's face - once the meaning actually sunk in - was, well *priceless*.

Cheers

Tory
December 21, 2005, 10:36 AM
"I'm confident that Mike wasn't referring to a real lawyer."

So am I. Which is why he was NOT who I quoted; Gimme.50 was.

NOW do you get the point?

Father Knows Best
December 21, 2005, 12:15 PM
"I'm confident that Mike wasn't referring to a real lawyer."

So am I. Which is why he was NOT who I quoted; Gimme.50 was.

NOW do you get the point?

Wow. People sure are touchy around here these days.

Tory, if you look back at my post (which you quoted), you'll see that I wasn't responding to you. In fact, I quoted "another okie" in my post. My post was directed at those who questioned what a "gun store lawyer" was.

1 old 0311
December 21, 2005, 12:26 PM
Laws? Read the tax code:neener: :neener: :neener: :neener: :neener:


Kevin

SIOP
December 21, 2005, 12:49 PM
It is absolutely ridiculous and asinine, whether federal law or not! What schools need to do is embrace firearms and offer training classes, NRA instruction, et al., not ban them! Lawyers involved in education yields ignorance! What is the point of schools flat out rejecting and denying the second Amendment? It is patently absurd!


I didn't say that I agreed with it, I was merely pointing out that there IS a law that restricts firearms possession within 1000 feet of a school. So actually, the gun store lawyer guy was more right than wrong.

Phaetos
December 21, 2005, 02:13 PM
Laws? Read the tax code:neener: :neener: :neener: :neener: :neener:



"Guys! There's a whole section on Tax Codes here that we can burn"
- Black Kid from "The Day After Tomorrow"

MikeIsaj
December 21, 2005, 10:23 PM
Wow! Didn't expect this much response.

And the prize goes to all who understood he wasn't a real lawyer, just a loud mouth know-it-all.

El Tejon, I like the book idea. I started researching the laws myself after getting some strange versions of firearms laws from people who should know better.

Can anyone give me the federal law that sets the 1000ft. school zone?

SIOP
December 21, 2005, 11:14 PM
18 USC 922(q)(2)(A) and (B); 18 USC 921(a)(25)(A) and (B)

MikeIsaj
December 22, 2005, 08:45 AM
Thanks SIOP.

Blackcloud6
December 22, 2005, 09:09 AM
I was merely pointing out that there IS a law that restricts firearms possession within 1000 feet of a school.

Wasn't the 1000ft part of the law overturned by the courts?

SIOP
December 22, 2005, 09:20 AM
Wasn't the 1000ft part of the law overturned by the courts?


If my memory serves me correctly, it was overturned because the courts found that the Feds didn't have any jurisdiction. It was then rewritten to include an interstate commerce clause.

45crittergitter
December 28, 2005, 01:12 PM
It was overturned because the law had nothing to do with interstate commerce (even though it said it did), and therefore the feds had no constitutional authority, according to the SCOTUS.

AirForceShooter
December 28, 2005, 01:19 PM
I spent 35 years reading the Tax Code.
Gun laws are a cinch (yeah right).

AFS

Gimme.50
December 28, 2005, 04:23 PM
Try READING the post. It wasn't a real lawyer; it was a Gun Store Lawyer. :scrutiny:

As in, Mall Ninjas, Gun Show "Operators" and the like. :rolleyes:

Indeed I did read this post, even before my own reply, and still managed to misunderstand that this was an allusion to a wanna-be lawyer loud-mouth. No prize for me. Does this mean I'm remanded to "New Member" status for all eternity, or is this a forgivable offense?

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