Reloading Problem - Please Help


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TexasTea
December 21, 2005, 05:03 PM
I have this problem in the last couple batches of 30-06 that I reload. About 10-20% of my cartridges would not chamber all the way. The bolt of the rifle kinda stuck when I try to close the bolt, pushing it down. I did not try to force it any futher and take out the cartridges and set them a side. Now I have about more than a dozen of the rejected cartridges that I need to get a bullet puller to recycle the bulles and powder.

After the last batch, I did try to be very carefull to not to crunch down the neck of the brass when I sat the bullets. All the brass were full length resized. There was no roll crimping on the cartridge. I try to compare the rejected cartridges and the OK ones but could not detect any noticable differences.

What could be the problem? What do I need to do to test this? The gun I am using is a Rem 700 ADL. Your help is apreciative.

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TexasTea
December 21, 2005, 05:06 PM
BTW, The OAL of the cartridges are under the max limits. I have a dial caliper at home I can check the neck size and the shoulder size of the cartidges tonight and see. Where can I find the correct cartridge dimensions for the 30-06?:confused:

JackOfAllTradesMasterAtNone
December 21, 2005, 05:16 PM
I must have to think that even the good cartridges are probably close to tolerance for your rifle.

I hope that you have a dial caliper that you can measure, each case and loaded round, AGAIN, to find the differences.

Did you measure case lenth then trim to spec before reloading? What is the OCL for a loaded round? One thing to figure out is when in the process of reloading that the cases become rejects. Take ten empty cases and just resize them. Will each of them chamber? Figuring out if this is a sizing failure or a bullet seat/crimping failure. Take one of the failed cases. Paint it with a black sharpie marker. Tip of bullet to the base. Feed that bullet in by hand. Not using the bolt. -until you just feel resistance. Pull it out and inspect. If this doesn't give you clues, then use the bolt, but don't force things.

The more information you can provide, by doing this and measuring, then we might be able to help. (digital photo might help too.) What cases, bullets and powder load you're using might also help. Take a look at your sizing die and seating die, and make sure the locking rings are tight. When things move, reloading becomes inconsistant.

-Steve

POG
December 21, 2005, 05:32 PM
I had the same problem shooting a state match at Camp Perry last summer. Talked to a Garand guru who told me to try small base dies. Of course I had lots of loaded rounds for the rest of the summer so I bought a bullet puller, pulled the bullets, poured out the powder, removed the decapper pin from my die, and resized the primered cases. It worked like a charm! Have had no problems since.
Just my 2 cents worth.
Good Luck.
Paul/OH

Grumulkin
December 21, 2005, 06:33 PM
You really shouldn't need to use small base dies or full length dies to resize for a 700 ADL. When I was loading for a 700 BDL I would only neck size and never had a problem. An M1 Garand does require full length resizing.

I would suspect one of the following problems:

1. The cases are a little too long (measure them again). The Hornady Reloading manual gives cartridge dimensions as do the Barnes and Speer manuals. Trim them all to the minimal length and see what happens.

2. The dies is improperly set and you are getting a crimp and don't know it. Some of the cases may be a little longer than others and getting crimped while cases a tiny bit shorter are not getting crimped. It only takes a tiny bit of deformity in the neck of a case to keep it from chambering easily.

flashhole
December 21, 2005, 06:47 PM
The overall length may not mean anything for the type of bullet you are using. The ogive style will define the region of intercept of the body of the bullet and the lands in the barrel. It varies among bullet styles. It may be that you simply need to seat the bullets a little deeper than you have. Depending upon how aggressive your crimp is you might be able to do it to the loads you have. With the exception of lever guns, I gave up on canilure bullets long ago. Take a black magic marker and coat the bullet before you load it. If you pull it out and there are inclusions (marks) in the ink you applied you know the bullet is contacting the lands and is not seated deep enough. Bullets contacting the lands will definately create a situation of high pressure.

Your best bet is to pull them and start fresh. If you try reseating and it doesn't do the trick, a second alternative that is not recommended is to get a Redding body die and carefully size the loaded cases. Lube the outside with a good lube like Imperial sizing wax and be careful. You said you had already FL sized the brass so this shouldn't do anything to the case.

steve4102
December 21, 2005, 07:22 PM
If your brass if of the proper "trim to length" and your FL Dies are set properly then it is possible that your expander ball is pulling the shoulders up when you pull it through the neck. Do you feel a lot of tension when the expander ball pulls through the neck? If so, then you might need to give it a little polish job and lube the inside of your necks a bit more. Just a thought.

redneck2
December 21, 2005, 07:26 PM
You didn't say how many firings each case had.

If you didn't "trim to" case length before loading, I'd suspect you've got case stretch and the neck is jamming against the front end of the chamber.

If it's that tight with a bolt gun, you've got problems

I had a Savage .223 that had a tight chamber from the factory. Even some factory loads would bind and it would be very hard to close the bolt. I used an oversized bore brush (.35 IIRC) with liberal amounts of solvent and a power drill to clean the chamber.

After that, the rounds would chamber but I dumped it anyway because the trigger was so bad

USSR
December 21, 2005, 08:34 PM
TexaxTea,

You are not pushing the shoulder back enough. Seat the die a little deeper in your press and try again.

Don

longrifleman
December 21, 2005, 09:14 PM
One more thing to check. Make sure the chamber on your rifle is clean. That probably isn't the problem but it will remove one variable. My first guess is either a loose die or not enough/ inconsistent lube in the case mouth.

The Bushmaster
December 21, 2005, 09:24 PM
To he++ with reading all you guys stuff.:neener: ..I'll just jump right in.:D ..If they have been reloaded several times the brass may have flowed forward and the case mouth (neck) thickness may need to be reduced. Or you need to make sure your die is set up properly. If you are full length sizing make sure that the die is touching the shell holder when completing the sizing operation or the shoulder may be too high. If you are just neck sizing, do a full length sizing operation and try it again. Almost every time I have a hard to chamber .30-06 it's because the neck is too thick...:)

Did I miss anything???:rolleyes:

TexasTea
December 21, 2005, 11:44 PM
Thank for all the comments and suggestions. You all are very helpful as usual. I will measure all the rejected cartridges and record them. Maybe I learn something from it. This problem is really bugging me. It is kinda embarassing.

So here are what I will do:
- Clean the chamber, have not done it for a while
- I only lube inside the neck every 4th cases, if the expander ball is rough comming out, I will lube the case and resize it again. This seems to be the most promising possibility.
- I will do a black marker on the rejects and see which parts touched the chamber/land.

I always do full length resize on all cases. I always adjust the die to touch the case holder on the way up.

The cartridges are loaded with IMR 4064, 49gr, 165gr Hornady BTSP, starting load from IMR website. The cases are either Remington or Winchester. They are once fired cases and I have reloaded them maybe 4 times. I will do an inventory and see which cases has more problem.

So, I will need a bullet puller. I would appreciate any recommendations? Hornady, RCBS, Lyman, etc?

Thank again folks.

steve4102
December 22, 2005, 01:03 AM
I always do full length resize on all cases. I always adjust the die to touch the case holder on the way up.

If you are setting your FL Die to just touch the shell holder then that might be your problem. A full length sizing die should be adjusted so the die touches the shell holder PLUS 1/8 to 1/4 turm more. If you are just touching the shell holder you are not setting the shoulder back far enough. With the die just touching the shell holder you are very close to what is called "Partial Full Length Sizing". Here is a thread on the subject. Read the post by "Hot Core"

http://forums.accuratereloading.com/groupee/forums/a/tpc/f/2511043/m/988100932/r/242108932#242108932

TexasTea
December 22, 2005, 11:34 AM
Well thank you for all the helps. Merry Christmas to everybody.

I think I found the problem. Like some of you have said I did not resize the case properly. That is the problem.

I tried couple of the casings that I have deprimed, resized, and washed this morning. I got couple casings stuck right away. I put the casings back into the press and resize them again. All of them loaded into the chamber fine. Apparently I did not do a good job of resizing them the first time while I deprimed them (don't know why, maybe I was more concern with depriming rather than resizing). But I am going to resize all my casing again before reload. I think the problem is solved.

Again thank you all, and Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to all of you.

USSR
December 22, 2005, 11:57 AM
Like steve4102 said, you can't just have the bottom of your die "kiss" the top of the shellholder and get the shoulder pushed back enough for proper chambering.

Don

The Bushmaster
December 22, 2005, 01:23 PM
HOORAY!!! Another problem solved....Don't you just love this???:D

Merry Christmas to all....:)

TexasTea
December 23, 2005, 12:23 PM
Merry Christmas everybody

I went to the range and tested all the rounds that I loaded with proper resizing. All went in the chamber without difficulty and all went bang loudly:D .

I was surprised how well I shot yesterday evening, excellent groupings (5-6) for the first time with the new gun, Rem 700 ADL, 30-06. All are within 1.5" at 50 yard. I know this is not very good for some of you old farts. But for me this is an accomplishement. I finally feel that have confident in the gun and my ability to hit a target 3" round at 50 yard consistently. Time to go hunting, I say.:)

goon
December 23, 2005, 12:26 PM
Is it your crimp?
Did you trim your brass?
Too much crimp on brass that is getting close to the maximum length or regular crimp on brass that is already too long will cause this.

JMusic
December 27, 2005, 09:54 PM
Watch for lube build up and dies looosing up. Both may be negligable but this will create issues if you are on that fine edge. Lube build up can be a pain. Go to a dry lube to eliminate this issue.
Jim

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