Another not good story - N.C. Boy Accidentally Shoots Himself, Dies


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Rockrivr1
December 22, 2005, 12:48 PM
DURHAM, N.C. (AP) - A 4-year-old boy accidentally shot himself in the head, and two people were charged with manslaughter after he died early Wednesday at a hospital, police said.

Police would not release the boy's identity but said the shooting happened in a private home Tuesday night.

Tyesha Nicole Lovely, 20, and Carlisle E. Francis Sr., 43, were charged with involuntary manslaughter and failure to secure a firearm from a minor, police spokeswoman Kammie Michael said. Francis was charged separately with possession of a firearm by a convicted felon.

Investigators released few details but said an adult and two other children were in the home at the time of the shooting. Police would not say what Francis and Lovely's relationship with the boy was or whether either one was the adult who was in the house.

The boy died after he was taken to Duke University Hospital for surgery.

In was the second such accident this week. On Sunday, a 4-year-old boy in Tampa, Fla., fatally shot himself in the head with a gun he found at home in a bedroom closet, authorities said.

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griz
December 22, 2005, 01:34 PM
Just damn. RIP little guy.

pax
December 22, 2005, 01:37 PM
:(

Lock up your guns when they're not in use.

Teach your kids not to touch them without permission.

Suspenders and a belt...

pax

yonderway
December 22, 2005, 02:08 PM
Francis was charged separately with possession of a firearm by a convicted felon.

:cuss:

There shouldn't have been a gun in the house in the first place.

yonderway
December 22, 2005, 02:09 PM
I should point out... I've lived in Philly most of my life. I lived in the Durham area for about 5 years. The one and only time I've ever seen anyone get shot was in Durham. The street gangs are pretty out of control there. I bet a nickle this guy was a gang banger.

V4Vendetta
December 22, 2005, 03:14 PM
I'm from NC. I saw this on the news. It saddens & angers me that on a occasion such as this, the media uses it blame the gun. To you little fella, rest in peace.

If you don't have a gun safe, you need one.

Henry Bowman
December 22, 2005, 03:20 PM
Pax, reading between the lines there is enough information to know from that short article that if the household were "functional" enough to follow your simple rules, most of them wouldn't have been there in the first place. The same result could have come from an unattended bucket of water. Either way... sad. :(

jtward01
December 22, 2005, 03:45 PM
With the case here in Tampa it looks like the mother's new boyfriend stashed the gun in the kid's bedroom closet without the mother's knowledge. The kid found it and bang, took a round right in the head. Of course, the boyfriend, who has multiple felony convictions, is denying any knowledge of the gun and so far the cops haven't been able to tie him to it. Chances are no one will be charged in this one.

benEzra
December 22, 2005, 04:34 PM
Francis was charged separately with possession of a firearm by a convicted felon.
The only other accidental shooting of a young child that I'm familiar with was also a child in the household of a criminal (in the case I'm thinking of, it was a 3-year-old that lived in a crackhouse and accidentally shot himself with his crack-dealer-uncle's pistol, which he kept under a couch cushion.

If you eliminated accidents by criminals from the gun-accident stats, they'd be even lower than they already are.

Technosavant
December 22, 2005, 05:05 PM
It seems that a majority of these "youngster finds firearm, shoots self" stories come from "homes" where there is at least one criminal, and it is not a healthy environment anyway (drug use/sales/manufacturing). As such, firearms should not even be present (if current laws were even followed).

It's a shame. That kid should be alive, and it isn't the gun's fault that he is not.

Standing Wolf
December 22, 2005, 08:40 PM
See? More leftist extremist so-called "gun control" laws would have prevented this.

c_yeager
December 22, 2005, 08:46 PM
If your child drowned in your swiming pool would you get charged with failure to secure a swiming pool from a minor?

pax
December 22, 2005, 09:02 PM
c_yeager ~

Yes, in many jurisdictions.

pax

rhubarb
December 22, 2005, 11:51 PM
The night before last as I was cleaning my pistol, my three year old watched. Since he was being such a good boy, I let him handle it after it was re-assembled and I triple checked the chamber. When he couldn't pull the double action trigger the right way, he turned it around and pushed it down with his thumbs. The muzzle was right in his face. CLICK! That sent a chill down my spine. Probably something like that happened in this case.

My children will never find an unsecured firearm in my home. You can dismiss this case as one of "them" homes, but don't dismiss the necessity of vigilance.

jtward01
December 23, 2005, 12:30 AM
If your child drowned in your swiming pool would you get charged with failure to secure a swiming pool from a minor?

Absolutely, in many jurisdictions. I believe here in Florida outdoor in-ground pools must be fenced with a child proof fence. It that's not a state-wide law then I know it's a local ordinance in many areas.

jtward01
December 23, 2005, 12:40 AM
Had an interesting conversation with an anti-gun advocate today. She said that she fully understands that guns themselves aren't evil, and that it's the actions of people that result in accidental shootings. However, she says, since many people who are legally allowed to own firearms obviously aren't responsible enough to own firearms safely the only way to eliminate firearms accidents is to eliminate firearms. The argument that irresponsible firearms owners are no different than reckless drivers, but no one is trying to ban automobiles, held no water with her. Cars, she says, are nearly a necessity in today's society while except for the police and military guns are not. I found it hard to argue with her.

Old Fuff
December 23, 2005, 12:53 AM
The true answer of course is mass transportation - individual cars aren't necessary, just nice. I mean really, back in the '50s when I went to college I didn't have a car and got around on a bus or my own two feet. So everybody should do the same... I mean it's for the children after all... :neener: :rolleyes:

Perhaps if she lived along the U.S./Mexican border in a rural area where the Sheriff sometimes can't respond in under an hour, she might get a slightly different perspective about guns. Cochise County by the way, is almost as large as the State of Connecticut. :what:

On the other hand if she's really interested in saving children, she should look into banning swimming pools - which kill more youngsters then guns.

Ryder
December 23, 2005, 02:27 AM
How odd that I (and all my brothers, sisters, and cousins) grew up around loaded unsecured firearms and how odd that we all lived long enough to have kids and raise them in the same way. Guess I am just irresponsible, like my parents (and their brothers, sisters, and cousins), and their parents before them.

To this very day I don't know anybody that owns a gunsafe (except me). I know gun owners with families but none with kids who shot themselves. Makes me think it's wrong to try forcing generalized standards on everybody based on such an incredibly rare tragedy.

I was never of the opinion that society could make enough rules to keep a kid safe from harm. That's my job and I do it well. I have three grandkids about the age of the boy in the story. I don't run to lock up my loaded guns when they come over and I never will. I enjoy giving them my attention. They are not in danger.


Police would not say what Francis and Lovely's relationship with the boy was
:( Be a shame if the little guy had no family to care for him.

Old Fuff
December 23, 2005, 11:10 AM
However, she says, since many people who are legally allowed to own firearms obviously aren't responsible enough to own firearms safely the only way to eliminate firearms accidents is to eliminate firearms.

Like most of those on the gun control/prohibition side of the argument, the lady carefully avoids any notice that people use firearms to defend themselves against criminal attacks, and in so doing save lives. Their position that “the police will protect you,” is obviously flawed because there aren’t enough cops to go around to provide everyone with 24/7 protection. With few exceptions, what they really do is clean up the mess after-the-fact, and then try to find and apprehend the criminals who were responsible.

A survey of various posts and threads on this and other forums, as well as the American Rifleman’s monthly “Armed Citizen” column will provide many examples that firearms protect and save good people. An anti-gunner may dismiss this truth, but they shouldn’t be able to rebut it, given that the pro-gun side can provided many documented examples.

As for prohibiting the private ownership of handguns, the British have tried that, and as far as preventing “gun-crime” it has been a failure. While law-abiding subjects gave up their handguns, criminals did not – and couldn’t be made too. As a result the situation has deteriorated, with more firearm-related crime then before, and in areas such as home invasion the statistics show that England is worse off then in the United States.

Running this lady into the ground should be easy …

benEzra
December 23, 2005, 02:21 PM
Had an interesting conversation with an anti-gun advocate today. She said that she fully understands that guns themselves aren't evil, and that it's the actions of people that result in accidental shootings. However, she says, since many people who are legally allowed to own firearms obviously aren't responsible enough to own firearms safely the only way to eliminate firearms accidents is to eliminate firearms. The argument that irresponsible firearms owners are no different than reckless drivers, but no one is trying to ban automobiles, held no water with her. Cars, she says, are nearly a necessity in today's society while except for the police and military guns are not. I found it hard to argue with her.
Swimming pools aren't a NECESSITY in today's society, and swimming pools are 10 to 100 times as dangerous to children on a fatal-accident-per-owning-household basis than guns are. Does she support legislation outlawing swimming pools?

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