[hps1]

All the talk about the red dots on M16's got me to wondering:

Anyone know how much eye relief would you need for a Millet type red dot?

Been thinking about how handy one would be on a Garand. Anyone tried this?

Regards,
hps

[Sven]

I'm interested! Haven't heard much on this.

[dude]

It would work great!!!

.........but only for limited ranges as you would loose the long range capability of the -06 or .308, unless you could get a red-dot with an adjustable range setting.

[3 gun]

I have one (SP1) mounted waaay back on my M1a. It's so far back that I only use one ring in front of the scope to keep it in place. I've also used the same scope on a 22 pistol. Eye relief isn't a problem with the Millet red dots.

I don't think "handy" and "scope" belong in the same sentence when talking about a Garand. IMHO the problem with most Garand scope mounts is you lose the use of the rear sight or the ease of loading. That's not a trade off I'd be willing to make.

[Skunkabilly]

Even with a scout mount?

[Kor]

...called the Farnam Defensive Rifle(FDR), a semi-custom job by Don Johnson Gunsmithing in FL, put up on a tankerized .308 M1 Garand with a custom LER Scout-mount, and promulgated(at one time, at least) by John Farnam as a 50-state-legal defensive rifle(no hi-cap/detachable mag, under 10-rd capacity). For quick handling combined with potency, shootability and ruggedness, the .308 M1 "Tanker" has always seemed like a pretty cool rifle to me.

However, since the raison d'etre of the red-dot scope is FAST alignment on target, this wastes much of the accuracy that the M1 is capable of. Most competition-oriented(i.e. SPEED-oriented) red-dot scopes will have 5-7MOA dots, which will cover/obscure targets at longer ranges - the dot almost completely covers a man's torso(18" wide) at 200yds and out, and will open your groups at 100yds to the point that headshots would be a dicey proposition(coarse dot = 5"-7"+ groups @ 100yds). You can also get the dots as small as 2.5MOA, but then it becomes harder to acquire the dot at speed, so you've lost much of the scope's advantage.

As issued, the iron sights on an M1 are good enough for most shooters to easily achieve <4MOA, which makes 100yd headshots and 200+yd torso shots a going proposition. The only people who seem to have a truly legitimate need for a scope(as opposed to proper training/practice) are older shooters who may not be physically able to focus clearly on the front sight. Even then, such shooters will usually get better groups with a magnifying scope with a cross-hair reticle than a 1X scope with a dot that covers 5+ inches of the target at 100yds.

And as far as using such a rifle in competition, that idea is a non-starter - you gotta take the scope off the gun to shoot in Service Rifle competition, and the dot-scopes give such a coarse aiming-point that you'd probably shoot better with the iron sights anyway. I've seen a guy try to make his Garand run fast in a 3-gun action-shooting competition, and although he got an "A" for effort, he just couldn't keep up with the 20-rd mag-fed M1A's, let alone the 30-rd AR15's.

So, if you want to put a red-dot on your Garand, be my guest - I just don't see it as being anything but an answer to a question nobody ever needed to ask.

[Sven]

Now... putting a red dot on an M1 Carbine.... (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=10497)... that makes a bit more sense, as the large ~4 MOA dot roughly corresponds to accuracy of the carbine.

Click the link above for my post here on THR discussion this prospect.

[hps1]

I can't disagree with all of the opinions that the red dot is not the ideal sight for the Garand. Unfortunately, however, my 67 year old eyes do not allow me to use the irons any longer; at least not on the Garand. I can still use aperature front & rear in the match rifle class, but would like to get the M1's out of mothballs and figure the red dot might be the answer.

Also agree the carbine is a better match to the red dot.

I was mounting a Millet 3moa sight on a 10/22 and without the sunshade on it there just might be enough room to mount it in place of the rear sight and still give clearance for the clip. If there is enough room, it should be fairly easy to make a base block to replace the rear sight and attach through the holes for the elevating spindle, thus not altering or drilling the receiver. If not enough room there, the scout mount would be the only other option to allow clip use.

Since this would leave room only for one ring was glad to hear 3 gun say he had one so mounted on his M1A. Have you had any problems w/ring slippage w/only one ring, 3 gun?

Thanks for all the input, fellows. Any other ideas?

Regards,
hps

[hps1]

Just had another thought. I was lamenting the loss of the iron sights should I replace rear sight w/the millet, but just realized, I'll bet the millet would make a dandy ghost ring sight. I relize you lose the long range sight adjustment, but there's always Kentucky windage.

And, if there is not room for the millet, how about one of the Tasco optima's?

Regards,
hps

[Kharn]

Red Dot Sight on M1 Garand

I think you're going to hell for even asking that question. :evil:
Its probably like riding a moped, it might be fun, but dont let your friends see you do it.

Kharn

[hps1]

Kharn:
You're probably right! I'll be very discreet when taking it out of the case and make sure no one is lookin'.
:D :D :D

Regards,
hps

[3 gun]

One ring has held my red dot in place thru at least 3 battle packs. It's setup so the recoil impulse drives the scope forward into the ring. The ring is at the ridge in the tube body for the adj. knobs. The scope doesn't have anywhere to go. 500+ rounds and the M1a hasn't broke the SP1. They are well built.

The idea of replacing the rear sight with an Optima sounds good. I don't think you could reload with the Millet in place. It would be close.

I have found that hits are pretty common and easy on 12" steel plates out to around 300 yards. The SP1 has a 3MOA dot with 11 brightness settings. I'm not sure about the Optima.

[hps1]

3 gun:
Thanks for the info. I figured that as light as the millet is one ring would hold it ok so appreciate benefit of your experience on your M1A..

I have an SP1 w/3min dot on a 10/22 now. With the extension tube removed, it is only 4.15" OAL. If it were mounted just barely behind rear receiver bridge to clear the clip, the ocular lense would be even with the back end of the receiver. I don't think it would hit my glasses in any position other than possibly prone and might be OK there, too.

Toying with the idea of altering a rear sight block so that a weaver base could be attached to it for a base and you would still retain your mechanical windage adjustment.

What the heck, no permanent alterations to the rifle, all I got to lose is the rear sight base, think I'll check w/my smith next time I get up to see what he thinks.

Regards,
hps

[3 gun]

Keep us posted on how it comes along. With the M1 and M1a using the same rear sight, what works for you should work for me. Sure would be nice to be able to lose that oversized 3rd Gen scope mount. Still I'm not sure I'd want to remove the iron sights. I'm thinking of finding another mount and cutting it down in size and weight.

[Matthew_Q]

Red dot on an M1?!?!?!

BLASPHEMY!!!


What the heck would ya want that for? I know for dayum sure I could shoot better with the irons.


(sorry, M1 purist here. It ain't broke, so don't F with it.)

[hps1]

20 years ago I would have made the same comments, however, as stated in one of my earlier posts,:

Unfortunately, however, my 67 year old eyes do not allow me to use the irons any longer :(

You know the old saying, any port in a storm.

3gun:
Well, I'm not wild about removing the rear sight, either, but would rather do that than drill & tap receiver for side mount, and, it's not that difficult to remove/replace the rear sight. (Since my M1 was used in shooting NM course, I have all my 200 - 1000 yd zeroes logged in the book.:)

By the way, Bushnell took over the Tasco scope line; does anyone know who is making the Optima now? I heard someone is still making it but can't seem to locate any info. Not sure of measurements on the Optima, but suspect that it would be much more compact than the Millet & IIRC it also mounts on the Weaver base. Thanks.

Regards,
hps

[pfcaldera]

I see that this thread is fairly old, but when I found it I figured regardless of the sacrilege I have done it. I removed the original M1 rear sight, used the Universal Gunsmith blank JPoint mount from JP Rifles. Drilled 3 holes through the receive to secure the mount then put the JPoint on that. It sits low at the same height as the original sight. I did this due to loving to shoot the M1 but my eyes just don't work as well as they used to. It makes one great coyote gun. If anyone else wants to commit this sacrilege I can elaborate and send photos.

[nbkky71]

The CMP now offers a scope mount for the M1 that replaces the rear handguard.

http://www.odcmp.org/new_forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=30051&SearchTerms=scope+mount

It should handle a dot-sight just fine.

[jthuang]

Ya know, that CMP mount doesn't look half bad ...