[Manyirons]

The local black powder gunsmith/barrelmaker refers to and uses Gray Powder, says it above a charge of Swiss 3F and oversize .385 ball (More bearing surface) some 1,300fps from 1851 Navy.

Anyone ever hear of this? He will not sell it or give me any, personal use and liability he says.

[John C]

Manyirons;

I've read that around the time of the first smokeless powder, "brown" or "grey" or so-called "semi-smokeless" powder was invented/used by many armies in Europe to try and get some of the advantages of smokeless powder in their blackpowder cartridge rifles. I'm not sure of the composition.

Sorry I don't have much more info.

-John

[Beartracker]

I just read something about gray powder but can't remember where or when. If I see it again I'll let you know.

[Manyirons]

Found something! Ammonium Nitrate/Potassium Nitrate/Charcoal. Proportions unknown.

Local smith is a genius i think!

[Jim Watson]

Amidpulver:
Gans of Hamburg in 1885 patented [Ger. Pat. 37,631] a powder which contained no sulfur and was made from 40 to 45 per cent potassium nitrate, 35 to 38 per cent ammonium nitrate, and 14 to 22 per cent charcoal.

More at:
http://66.78.90.30/webdoc1.htg/Black_Powder/Black_powder2.htm
nearly to the bottom of the page.

I think this guy is nuts but apparently there is a subculture making their own powder even now.

[Third_Rail]

It's called ammonpulver.

I've made it many times, though the corrosive properties of BP are present, it also gives higher pressures and therefore higher velocities. Originally made for artillery, adapted for use in small arms ca. 1880 - short lived, to say the least, as it was too hygroscopic.

Virtually smokeless and flashless when used properly, it was about on par with double based smokeless powders (DBSP) of the time, the main drawback being that it was, as stated earlier, too hygroscopic. In addition to this, it had the unnerving tendancy to turn to fine powder when the grains were exposed to changes in temperature. Fine powdered propellant, as we all know, can cause some disasterous results in artillery and small arms alike.

During its short life, it was used primarily in Germany and Austria for artillery, but as soon as DBSP became common, it was abandoned.

Hope this helps. :)


Edit: Jim Watson beat me to it by a few minutes - I was busy typing away! The things I know from memory.... :D

[Jim Watson]

According to the source I reference, Ammonpulver contained no KNO3, just NH4NO3 and charcoal, 85-15.

[mec]

Some manufacturers warn against using "White Powder" which I think is the same mixture of sodium clorate and powdered sugar we used to blow things up. Extremely hygroscopic and makes thick clouds of smoke. A friend load a .32 acp with the stuff and it shot.

[Third_Rail]

Jim Watson, I stand corrected! I must have missed the KNO3 there; you're correct in saying that ammonpulver is NH4NO3 and C. Learn something new every day! :)

[Manyirons]

Nuts? Never met him have you? One of keenest brightest calculating and frankly sudden death scary people i hope to meet! When i visit, three rules, no jokes, no touching, and keep hands visible!

Meticulous craftsman too!

[gmatov]

From what I have read, BP does not have to have Sulfur, but Potassium Nitrate and Charcoal, Carbon, are harder to ignite. Sulfur is just an ignition temperature reducer. And the velocity and pressure are about the same, though the smell is different.

Cheers,

George

[Third_Rail]

gmatov, in essence, yes. I did a series of experiments a few years back and found basically the same thing.