[hondo68]

There's been a lot of talk lately insinuating that there's something wrong with wanting to penetrate kevlar. The inflamitory term "police kevlar" seems popular. IMO there's no such thing as police kevlar.

It seems to me that the ability to penetrate kevlar is a minimum standard for a "well regulated militia". If you can't penetrate kevlar you're not well regulated enough to preserve the "security of a free state". The Hollywood bank robbers were armoured as well as lots of other bad guys, foreign and domestic, *TEO's or otherwise.

*Tyranny Enforcement Officers

[Zundfolge]

If you're concerned about being able to penetrate Kevlar then get yourself a Fal or other .308 battle rifle ... that will defeate most body armor.

:evil:

[3 gun]

Given the increase in the criminal use of vests, knowing what to use and how to use it is worth knowing. Having or wanting knowledge doesn't make anyone guilty of anything.

[Telperion]

There's been a lot of talk lately insinuating that there's something wrong with wanting to penetrate kevlar. The inflamitory term "police kevlar" seems popular. IMO there's no such thing as police kevlar.

I think you've taken the matter out of context, which was something like the following. Someone walks into your gun store and asks you what the baddest thing you have to punch through armor and vechicles. The person insinuates (however you interpret that under the circumstances) that he plans to do something illegal. Under these circumstances, IMHO it would be ethical to deny them the sale and ask them to leave. As for the term "police kevlar", that was said verbatim by the potential hoodlum in question (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=16142); it's not a term anybody here invented.

[Mike Irwin]

Ice pick.

[boing]

Black & Decker:

http://www.allmax.com/MILT/pix/drill1.jpg

http://www.allmax.com/MILT/

[hondo68]

Where's the insinuation of a crime in wanting "the baddest thing you have to punch through armor and vechicles"? Since when do you have to prove your "intent" or a "need"? Prior restraint? Someone MIGHT do something illegal, sounds flimsy to me.

If icepicks worked out to 500yds I might want one.

[Telperion]

I think you misunderstood me and the original poster of the story. Nobody should have to demonstrate his "need" to buy a weapon, but this individual chose to volunteer his intent. From the story, everybody around him had a deep gut feeling that something was up. So I don't disagree with you, I just maintain you took the original story a bit out of context.

[geekWithA.45]

except a .22

[jimpeel]

Try HERE (http://www.ambient.ca/cpunk/ammo.html) for some descriptive narrative on various rounds and their capabilities.

[clem]

.22 mag. FMJ for a lot of the lower threath level BA.

[TexasVet]

Not! A .22LR fired from a rifle length barrel will shatter 1" thick "bullet proof" lexan and ANY level 2 vest out there (but not level 3 and above or a trauma plate). So will factory .38 Super loads from a Colt. Spent a fun weekend testing about 20 calibers a few years ago.:D

[ahadams]

okay folks, for all y'all who are concerned about being able to defeat kevlar, go back to you high school physics class and read up on kinetic energy. Now, determine what happens to the kinetic energy of a round that dissipates itself against a kevlar vest. Having done that, please explain to me why you feel the need to penetrate same?

[BrokenPaw]

If you're concerned about being able to penetrate Kevlar then get yourself a Fal or other .308 battle rifle ... that will defeate most body armor. A .308 won't stop me, because of the trauma plates I wear. I can take multiple .308 rounds to the back! :D

-BrokenPaw, desparately in need of a Plan B.

[DeltaElite]

The number of baddies wearing armor is almost non-existent.
So the real targets of this question are cops and military.

Sure rifle fire may penetrate some armors, those are the chances I take with the public.
It's nice to see that members of this board have a plan on how to penetrate my armor.
Makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside. :neener:

[Kevlarman]

I've shot a 12-layer Kevlar panel with *multiple* rounds of .22LR from a 16" rifle barrel... with me behind the panel! :what:

None of the rounds penetrated. And I have a video of it too! :neener:

[Pendragon]

It's nice to see that members of this board have a plan on how to penetrate my armor.

It's nice to see that people who wear armor are worried about law abiding citizens ability to defeat it.

[Blain]

It's nice to see that people who wear armor are worried about law abiding citizens ability to defeat it.

Amen to that, brother! Keep the parity up!

[tyme]

bow + arrow
javelin

(also, a 10lb lead ball... won't penetrate but who cares?)

[DeltaElite]

It's nice to see that people who wear armor are worried about law abiding citizens ability to defeat it.

I'm not worried about law abiding citizens ability to defeat it.
I'm not worried about criminals ability to penetrate it.
You see I signed on knowing I could die any day I go to work.
You guys give yourself far too much credit for the infleuence you think you have in my life.

Besides I have a much greater chance of dying in a traffic accident than from some "Patriot" who views me as a "Tyranny Enforcement Officer". :rolleyes:

You guys crack me up. :neener:

[Gordon]

If you REALLY want to penetrate vests lathe turn bronze pointy things and propel above 3000fps.:evil: Of course they haven't invented a bulletproof face yet:evil:

[Pendragon]

I don't see you that way DE.

[TheeBadOne]

DE: I'm not worried about law abiding citizens ability to defeat it.
I'm not worried about criminals ability to penetrate it.
You see I signed on knowing I could die any day I go to work.
You guys give yourself far too much credit for the infleuence you think you have in my life.

Besides I have a much greater chance of dying in a traffic accident than from some "Patriot" who views me as a "Tyranny Enforcement Officer".

You guys crack me up.

Good post

[Chainsaw]

Delta Elite wrote; I have a much greater chance of dying in a traffic accident than from some "Patriot"

DE, That was a cheap shot at best. From your postings here that I have read, you are a better man than that.

[hondo68]

Me thinketh DE doth protesteth too much -- Bill Shakeaspear
:scrutiny:

[DeltaElite]

Chainsaw,
That was aimed at someone who would use the term "Tyranny Enforcement Officer" while thinking of themselves as some kind of Patriot. :rolleyes:

[DeltaElite]

As for parity, well I don't have a rifle, so the citizenry as a whole is better armed than I am while at work.
I want parity. :( ;)

Thanks Pendragon,
Maybe I get a little riled up sometimes, but some people seem to have an agenda beyond what they openly claim to have.

[Carlos Cabeza]

I know there are some heated debates on THR but I have trouble with the ethics of a "How to penetrate Kevlar" thread. Sort of has
goblin undertones.

[DeltaElite]

What Carlos said. :D

I am outa this one, I am too personally involved in the result of the topic to be objective.

I bet I would get some heat if I started a thread titled, "How to penetrate Citizens skulls".

Carry on folks. :D

[tyme]

DE, I think that topic is fairly self explanatory. I wonder if there's a "patently obvious" lock for such threads.

Either topic seems perfectly acceptable to me. There are certain times when shooting at kevlar and/or citizens' (hopefully just one or a couple at a time, but bad things can happen) skulls is legal and socially acceptable.

[Carlos Cabeza]

I don't know how much a good vest costs but everyone has a skull, and for those I would use a .45 ACP golden sabre.;)

[hondo68]

Some skulls are thicker than others though.:eek:

[Carlos Cabeza]

I know the "skull" comment was trite, but the point I am trying to make is that vests are used when an individual has an interest to put him or herself into harms way. If you are not a criminal, the possibility of encountering a person wearing one is very small. I don't feel the need to wear one with my CCW because I don't anticipate being shot at. I avoid situations that might result in a shooting. I avoid areas where the probability of such activity is high. The people that intentionally put themselves in this type of situation are either criminals or law enforcement, period. I am not saying a civilian should not be able to purchase one but discussing how to defeat an officers main form of gunshot PPE is certainly a touchy subject. I don't feel the need to scrutinize such information.

[hondo68]

So cops wearing kevlar are presumed inocent, and everyone else is guilty? There IS an elitist atitude in some of these posts.

Everyone has the right to feel vunerable if they wish. Police have no obligation to protect anyone. It's up to individuals to do whatever they think is best to protect themselves, including wearing or shooting through kevlar. Wearing body armour is NOT an indication of criminal intent!
:banghead:

[DeltaElite]

Wearing body armor, is indeed no sign of criminal intent.
Wearing body armor when it is not a part of your vocation may be an indication of a paranoid disorder that is best dealt with in the clinical setting. :D

[TheeBadOne]

The only reason I'm paranoid is everyone is out to get me!

[DeltaElite]

The voices in my head warn me in advance of any danger.
So I am not as paranoid as I used to be, thanks to the voices in my head. :D