Coach gun for home defense?


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MikeJ
January 2, 2003, 03:50 PM
Lately I've been considering the purchase of a shotgun for home defense and of course was considering a pump action at first. The one comment that I heard over and over was that you need to really spend time practicing with it to avoid short stroking etc. I have shot handguns for many years and these days most of my shooting is done at an indoor range. This means that I know I won't get in the practice I need to become proficient with a pump. I would like to hear opinions on using a coach gun for this purpose. Thanks, Mike

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tobeat1
January 2, 2003, 04:16 PM
I got a Stoeger coach gun as the first gun I bought for HD. I found that they SxSs tend to fit me very well. Upside is on my model (external hammers) you can store it loaded with the hammers down (I dont, and do not reccomend it), simple manual of arms. Downside is it only has two rounds.

El Tejon
January 2, 2003, 04:49 PM
Uncle Jeff was enthused about the lupara for HD. Tape the muzzles for bugs.:)

ruger357
January 2, 2003, 05:28 PM
Why not?

PJR
January 2, 2003, 06:18 PM
I've come to the conclusion that too much is made about which style or gauge of gun and type of ammo is needed for this purpose and not enough about developing a plan.

Having spent some time considering the subject, my plan is such that I feel just as comfortable with a pump, o/u or sxs. The gun matters less once you have considered some scenarios and determined what you will and will not do.

A coach gun will do just fine and has some inherent advantages IMHO.

Paul

Dave McCracken
January 2, 2003, 08:45 PM
Coach guns, or other short bbled doubles, are quite effective. There's a TFL thread I'm going to post a link to about building a Lupara, you might get some insight thereby.

Ciao, Paisan...

Kevlarman
January 2, 2003, 09:07 PM
I don't think the BG is gonna care whether he's shot with a super-duper tactical black shotgun, or a simple O/U. :D

nsf003
January 2, 2003, 11:59 PM
What's a lupara?

nsf

Wildalaska
January 3, 2003, 01:20 AM
What's a lupara?

Fageddaboutid

Cant tell you..Omerta of course..

Goin back to sleep wid da fishes...:neener:

PATH
January 3, 2003, 03:26 AM
Short barreled shotgun as seen in the movie Godfather and Godfather II.

Gordon
January 3, 2003, 03:30 AM
I think it means "little wolf" in Italian. Used in Italy to describe the ubiquatous short barreled hammer double kept for defense.

sm
January 3, 2003, 03:53 AM
Any shotgun can be an effective HD weapon. From single shot to a $35K Kreigoff and even evil black ones.

What is the budget? You may find a used pump is less $ than a coach gun, holds more shells, you may practice clays games to improve skill, hunt...more you use something the more it becomes a natural extension of user. Tight quarters and reloading a consideration, been in a crowded duck blind with a break open action?

Try before buy. What will budget $ buy.

Gabby Hayes
January 3, 2003, 04:29 AM
"A lady of our acquaintance, who lives alone, has asked us what sort of instrument is best for house defense in her case. To me the answer is easy: The 'Lupara,' a double-barreled 12-gauge shotgun with exposed hammers and short barrels. I understand the term Lupara is Sicilian and means approximately 'wolf killer.' Such a piece is enormously authoritative, it is easy to use, it requires minimal training in its management, and it may be left loaded and uncocked indefinitely on the closet shelf. The only precaution is to seal the muzzles with scotch tape or cotton wool to avoid the building of nests in the barrels by little varmints."

- Jeff Cooper's Commentaries, Vol. 2, No. 3

"... if house defense is your primary purpose, do not overlook the Lupara -- a short-barreled double 12-gauge shotgun with exposed hammers. If your object is to defend your hearth and home, you can almost certainly do it better with that than with an Uzi or an M16."

- Jeff Cooper, February 1990

sm
January 3, 2003, 06:11 AM
Yep
Due to arthritis mom keeps a youth 20 ga handy.
she used to be a great pistol shot
still can defend, different tool thats all

ReadyontheRight
January 3, 2003, 03:15 PM
Talking about home defense once, a guy told me why he likes a 12-gauge side by side:

"1. If you have kids in the house, you can keep the shells and gun separate and load it quickly in the dark.
2. Two shots ought to be enough and if it's not, the bad guys don't have any rounds left to use against you after your two shots -- which will be loud as hell.
3. Makes a great club."

Gordon
January 5, 2003, 02:35 AM
And the biggest reason to use a SxS 12ga is there is nothing more scary to face a close range.:what:

WonderNine
January 5, 2003, 02:41 AM
I posted a thread about this over at TFL a couple months ago. I'm looking for a good side by side 10 guage coach gun (20" barrel) with exposed hammers. Found a couple 12 guages that I like, but not a 10 guage which is what I really want.

I'm open to all suggestions!

WonderNine
January 5, 2003, 03:17 AM
Also, this guy is offering a NIB Stoeger Coach Gun for $199.00.

http://www.gunsamerica.com/guns/976304231.htm

Thought I'd alert everyone to this deal.

Personally I must have the exposed hammers though and 10 gauge is also a must. I guess they don't make this type of gun nowadays? I've been looking for months and haven't been able to find one.

HS/LD
January 5, 2003, 07:40 AM
Right thats it!

I have just found my third US based shotgun.

Keep the ideas coming I have more money than I can spend! :D


Regards,
HS/LD

Trisha
January 6, 2003, 01:39 PM
Susan loves her Coach Gun; though we may get a recoil pad for it...

We agree with Cooper's philosophy on them and have adopted them unhesitatingly, Mike.

Trisha

foghornl
January 6, 2003, 04:13 PM
If I didn't already have a good Maverick/Mossberg pump, I would certainly consider the SxS 12 Ga 'Coach Gun', particularly with the exposed dog-ear hammers. Reliable, and as simple a manual of arms as you will find.

And, if you have ever been on the business end of a SxS, you know the "Oh, S...!" factor :eek: :eek:

Dave McCracken
January 6, 2003, 08:45 PM
Paul had it right a few posts back, the software is much more crucial than the hardware. Have a plan....

Trisha, by all means get a good pad installed. Fit and comfort are essentials.

One candidate not mentioned here but of great merit is the Savage 311 series shotguns. While no masterpiece of gunmaker art, these are H*ll for strong, durable as a crowbar,and common in the used gun racks. Not expensive, either.

One of the last models introduced was a Security version with short barrels, 3" chambers and evil black painted wood.

These are not exposed hammer shotguns, but quite effective.

WonderNine
January 7, 2003, 11:03 PM
Too bad I can't seem to find any with 3.5" chambers.

Bainx
January 10, 2003, 10:17 PM
Ain't no way I would pick a SXS over a pump for home defense.

Dave McCracken
January 11, 2003, 07:08 AM
BAaainx, neither would I. But, different strokes for different folks. A trained and cool hand with a double gun is deadly to at least two perps. And, I've seen some very fast reloading done by the SxS crowd in dove fields and on covey flushes. Don't discount doubles or double gunners completely.

Gary A
January 11, 2003, 08:59 PM
Reading this thread, I thought I'd chime in but I gotta say I'm nowhere near as knowledgeable about shotguns as many here. I have had a couple of different short-barrelled coach guns and would offer a couple of my observations. In addition to only having two shots, I would not want to trust having a loaded coach gun relying on the safety to prevent firing because a) it doesn't seem safe to me and b) it would rely on having the action cocked and springs constantly under stress. A pump with a full or partially full magazine and an empty chamber with hammer down seems faster, safer, and the only spring "stressed" is the magazine spring. I had a Stoeger coach gun with which it was possible (with care) to open the action enough to load two shells and close it without cocking the action resulting in a loaded but uncocked shotgun, stressing no springs. This, however, still resulted in having to quickly break the gun open to cock it in order to bring it to bear, no better than racking the slide of a pump, more likely to spill the shells, and still leaving only two rounds at immediate disposal. My current coach gun, Turkish-made, cannot be opened enough to load shells without cocking the action meaning it must be either left empty, loaded and relying on the safety, or shells in the chamber but broken open.If kept broken open but "loaded' it still seems at little more advantage than racking a pump since it has to be closed and safety de-activated, and the leaf springs which power the hammers are under constant stress. Now that may not be a problem at all but I have always read that leaf springs are more prone to stress than coil springs. As much as I like the SxS coach guns, I just gotta believe the pump is superior in nearly every way including safety. I tried a Norinco coach gun and let me just say it was not satisfying and leave it at that. I would like to try a Baikal coach gun, the new one with real hammers, just for grins but still believe an 870 or a 1300 or any of several other pump guns is a far superior choice for HD. That's the decision I've come to and I'm comfortable with it.

WonderNine
January 12, 2003, 11:37 PM
The hammers on the Baikal are not really hammers as they don't strike a firing pin. The firing pin is actually internal and the 'hammers' are actually cocking levers.

I want a coach gun SxS with true external hammers so that it can be left loaded with the hammers down. That way when you need it all you have to do is cock the hammers. I'm looking at reliability more than anything else for a primary home defense gun. I don't like having to rack the slide on a pump between each shot and pump shotguns can jam as well.

SxS guns reload plenty fast IMO. I want something that is virtually guaranteed to be ready and go bang when there are intruders in the house. I would use a sidearm like a 9mm in case I wasn't able to reload fast enough.

WonderNine
January 12, 2003, 11:40 PM
.

WonderNine
January 12, 2003, 11:44 PM
.

Gabby Hayes
January 13, 2003, 06:41 AM
Baikal has a new coach gun out this year in which the external hammers actually function as such. They're calling it the Bounty Hunter II (IZH43KH) to compliment the earlier Bounty Hunter (IZH43K) that features external cocking levers only. Details: http://www.eaacorp.com/firearms/shotguns/izh43KH/index.html

The Rossi coach gun has working external hammers and was imported here until about 1988. I've seen them at gun shows from time to time, so there must be a few of them out there.

WonderNine
January 14, 2003, 03:06 AM
Thanks for pointing that out to me! Of course there's always something though, this new Bounty Hunter II has 2 and 3/4" chambers instead of 3".

I found a Rossi for sale, but it's only in fair condition and they want $400 plus shipping....:cuss:

Gabby Hayes
January 15, 2003, 09:14 AM
That's the way prices have been going in recent years with most any coach gun in decent shape. The cowboy action shooters have driven the market steadily upward. A friend paid $415 for a Rossi in Texas last year. I saw one last Fall at a show in Ohio going for $400. What the market will bear, I guess.

MrAcheson
January 15, 2003, 01:05 PM
Gabby, EAA SxS coachguns are all called the Bounty Hunter II, the actual model designation determines whether it has internal hammer, external cocking hammers (K), or true external hammers (KH). The EAA Bounty Hunter is their colt SAA clone.

JMLV
January 15, 2003, 03:40 PM
model 235 hammer double. Not a good HJD gun through what with those LONG barrels. Shoots too good in cowboy matches to cut them. would be a shame to change the old soldier at this stage of its life. sweet shooter through, easy to hit with.

Kdog45ak
September 22, 2006, 03:46 AM
I just bought a s&s coach gun with working hammers for $250 at a local sporting goods store. It is imported by century arms. The site for finding a century arms dealer in your area is...

http://www.centuryarms.com/Century/pages/locator.htm

i havnt gotten to shoot it yet but it feels great.

Vairochana
September 22, 2006, 05:21 AM
Down in my neck of the woods we aren't trusted with pump action shotguns.
I have opted for an old Baikal (TOZ 66) with true external hammers, it has pretty good internal chokes too so is good for clay and prey.:)

Steve C
September 22, 2006, 02:14 PM
Too bad I can't seem to find any with 3.5" chambers.

Never found the need for a shotgun shell longer than 2-3/4", be it hunting or SD. The only thing I'd even consider using a 3" or greater shell would be for long range pass shooting when hunting Geese.

perpster
September 22, 2006, 03:10 PM
Never found the need for a shotgun shell longer than 2-3/4", be it hunting or SD.

I agree, but I like having a 3" chamber in case that's all that's available in a pinch. One of the reasons I like having a .357 magnum handgun or rifle: can use .38 spcl and/or .357. Versatility and reliability in an effective caliber, be it shotgun, rifle or handgun.

MCgunner
September 22, 2006, 03:14 PM
ALL my duck hunting is with 3" steel fours. I got little use for anything shorter than three inches unless I'm dove or quail hunting. I do a LOT of waterfowl hunting. I've got little use for short barreled shotguns for that matter. My old SxS 28" mod/full 12 gauge is now my home defense shotgun since I don't wanna shoot it with steel loads. It kicks like a mule, anyway. :D That was okay when I was younger, but I'm getting cranky in my old age.

miekelle
December 4, 2008, 08:03 PM
LUPARA is sicilian which means (wolf shot) and the sheppards and crop growers in italy use to use them because they could protect their herd from wolfs, or in the other case the vinyard/ vegtable growers use to use them to get rid of flocks of birds and then some how the very basic design got to the mafia. A lupara is commonly known as a sawn-off shotgun

JImbothefiveth
December 4, 2008, 08:22 PM
Welcome to THR!


true external hammers
Can someone please show me a picture of a gun with true external hammers? I'm not even sure what they look like.

miekelle
December 4, 2008, 11:07 PM
http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/7567/smudgemediumea6.jpg

http://www.taylorsfirearms.com/products/images2/1878coachalt.jpg

http://www.americaremembers.com/Products/LOCG/LOCG_right.jpg


Hey hav u thought of shortening down an 1887 winchester lever-action shotgun?
or even ordering one with 18.5"or 20" barrel they hold 6+1 and has a simple 2 round quick load, where u open the action and pop 2 shells in and close the action and fire .

miekelle
December 4, 2008, 11:10 PM
http://www.andrewsleather.com/firepower.jpg

this is a pic of what u can do !

Leadhead
December 5, 2008, 01:36 AM
3 inch doubles with exposed hammers....

http://i34.tinypic.com/jtum3n.jpg

http://i34.tinypic.com/72pu05.jpg

http://i36.tinypic.com/13ynmlx.jpg

JoeFish
December 5, 2008, 02:01 AM
LUPARA is sicilian which means (wolf shot)

True, and this is one of the times when the Sicilian and Italian languages inersect (not as often as you might think).

Even without the ethnographic relation, a short, hard-to-jam weapon is a first-reach tool on farms all over the world.

When I first went to live on a farm, I was no stranger to guns, but I have to admit I was surprised to see- stood up in the broom closet- a .22 (for varmints in the distance, usually coyotes or wild dogs), a lupara (for walking the pastures) and a .38 special (for vagrants).

And while I don't want to encourage any stereotypes... I am Sicilian, and I remember more than one of these being made at kitchen tables years ago, though usually from a 20 or 28 ga.

While all that is cute, the gun you want in a stressful situation is a gun you've trained on. I'd rather have an 870 or 500 that I've shot trap with all summer, shortened barrel or not, that feels natural in my hands and has 6 rounds in it. Not to mention that when/if the cops show up, they'll be much less likely to raise an eyebrow at you. I've had friends with modified HD weapons get accused of their breakins being drug-related or something by LE when they got onsite.

The beautiful thing about shotguns is that they can be as economical and versatile as you want them to be.

--Edit: Also, I think your fear of short-stroking might be overthought. If you understand how guns work, a little firing time will make it clear what's involved in the action.

miekelle
December 5, 2008, 06:35 AM
http://www.leelofland.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2008/05/10-gg_winchester1887shotgun.jpg


see this is an is an idea but if u wanna go for the lupara its ok but with a modified 1887 10gauge or 12gauge 3" chambers would be a great home defence gun especially for slugs sorta like the one in terminator

PRM
December 5, 2008, 09:30 AM
Not a Coach Gun, but it is a side by side 20X20 (Pedersoli Howdah Hunter). I bought one of these about a year ago. Great gun for what it was designed for. Patterns good with buck and field shot. Round ball is also pretty awesome. I keep mine loaded with 35 grains of FFG, .60 calibre patched round ball, and topped off with #4 Buck.

Because it is black powder - length restrictions don't apply (11 inch barrels) - considered a smoothbore pistol.

Buck and Ball, an American Tradition since the Revolution.

mgregg85
December 5, 2008, 10:27 AM
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/30/Lupara.jpg/350px-Lupara.jpg

I wish MI law allowed those.

madcratebuilder
December 5, 2008, 11:03 AM
Not a Coach Gun, but it is a side by side 20X20 (Pedersoli Howdah Hunter). I bought one of these about a year ago. Great gun for what it was designed for. Patterns good with buck and field shot. Round ball is also pretty awesome. I keep mine loaded with 35 grains of FFG, .60 calibre patched round ball, and topped off with #4 Buck.

Because it is black powder - length restrictions don't apply (11 inch barrels) - considered a smoothbore pistol.

The Howdah is an impressive hand gun! If I didn't already have a coach gun and a 870P I would be using mine on the night stand.
I'm lucky to have several choices on what to use for HD, I feel the most comfortable with the couch gun. I have one of those elastic shell holders pulled over the forestock, like a sidesaddle. Carries six rounds, shorter and lighter than my 870P, and with a little practice you can reload very fast.
I think the important thing is to feel comfortable with your gun and to practice... a lot.

mrwilmoth
April 11, 2009, 02:31 AM
whats the deal on dominion arms?

BhmBill
April 11, 2009, 02:45 AM
I USED to have a spanish made SxS 10 ga coachgun next to my bed, but both firing pins broke and now I have my trusty 870 and a S&W .357 keepin guard. As soon as I can machine some more firing pins, i'll have that Double barrel, double trigger, hidden hammer 10ga sittin near by... just in case.

JeffA1
April 29, 2009, 12:55 PM
The short answer is buy one. I bought a Stoeger and I love it.

Things to consider:

1) Its light (6.5 lbs) and short (36.5 inches). Approximately 11 lbs pull on the triggers. Chambers 2.75 and 3 inched shells. The weight and length make for a good amount of felt recoil with with either size shell with loads larger than #1 buck.

2) Its short length makes it ideal for use inside your home. It feels like a natural extention of your body. This makes is a true point and shoot weapon.

3) Dual triggers make it faster than a pump for getting off a second round.

4) All guns need to be reloaded at some point. Reloading should be a primary focus with any firearm used for defense purposes. The coach gun can be reloaded very qwickly with practice. It is also easier, at least for me, to reload than feeding shells into a pump.

5) If you can't defuse the situation with two shots there is a very good chance that you will be taken down before you are able to get a third shot off with a pump.

6) However, if there is more than one home invader they more than likely are not going to function like a infantry squad. Like most people, upon being "stoegered", their first reaction is going to be "Holy !@#$, I've been shot"! Then they will bleed from many places. Your choice of shot must consider over penetration. Taking out the loved ones is bad.

Buy the coach gun. Practice with it.

steveracer
April 29, 2009, 01:02 PM
Love doubles for steel games. Lots of my buddies have trouble running a pump well, but run a double just fine.
I ended up with a chopped Stevens, and it works wonders on plates.

BHLBAMA
April 29, 2009, 01:15 PM
12 gauge

MrBill120
April 29, 2009, 08:25 PM
I too have been considering a Stoeger Coach Gun....why do they come with two different fixed chokes instead of two of the same? They have one fixed Improved Cyl, and the other is a fixed Modified...why not both fixed IC??

JImbothefiveth
April 29, 2009, 08:27 PM
Massad Ayoob reccomends against them. I'd guess that a semi-auto would be better. Even if it jams every 2 shots it would be aboutas fast as a coach gun.

If you can't defuse the situation with two shots there is a very good chance that you will be taken down before you are able to get a third shot off Maybe. There have recently been instances of more than one person breaking in, and one shot will not always stop. (ever been hunting?)

Marlin 45 carbine
April 29, 2009, 08:44 PM
the Coach Gun can be ordered with the 'open choke' both bbls.
this is the 12ga Mag.
find a spot on the 'waiting list'.

ShadyScott999
April 29, 2009, 08:45 PM
Wow! This thread is 6 years old.

inSight-NEO
April 29, 2009, 10:21 PM
Coach guns are cool and certainly better than nothing. But, if the only shotgun you were truly considering (for HD) was a coach, I would just go with a pistol instead. :D

Seriously though, dont let the "short stroking" thing deter you from making the pump shotgun a strong consideration. It really doesnt take as much "practice" as some purport.

(Im not sure if you will even get this reply, based on the vintage of this thread)

MrBill120
April 29, 2009, 11:17 PM
Marlin 45 carbine: the Coach Gun can be ordered with the 'open choke' both bbls.
this is the 12ga Mag.

The point of my question is: Why do Coach Guns have two differently choked barrels to begin with, and not two barrels choked the same?
What is the reasoning behind this??

MCgunner
April 29, 2009, 11:46 PM
I like different chokes for hunting. I bought my Spartan 20 gauge for dove hunting and find I/C-mod a great combination. I went I/C-full year before last and full just seems too tight. Mod handles out past 35 yards or so and 25 and in, bird is DOWN with I/C. With the Spartan, you can choose how you wanna choke it, change it if you want. Makes a great combo gun with slug in one barrel and 6 shot in the other choked cyl (slug) I/C or Mod (shot) barrel, too. I use it a lot like that when I'm hikin', case I come upon a rabbit or hog or, well, I'm ready for anything. :D Poor man's Savage 24V.

I install the I/C - Cyl chokes for bedroom duties, put on the butt cuff, and stoke it with Number 3 buckshot. I know it'll do the job at 10 feet. I also have a 9x19 (daily carry), a .357 magnum, and a .38 special within reach. I'm not under-gunned. I'll call 911, but if he breaks in the door of the bedroom, he'd better be ready to meet the devil.

I really think a coach gun for safe room defense is viable, perhaps superior to a pump. It is lighter, quicker, points naturally, same features that make it a better upland wing shooter than a pump. Now, if I need to go out of the bedroom, I'll take that .357 Magnum. I already have my ear plugs in every night so I can sleep through my wife's snoring. :rolleyes: Of course, I have the .38 in my nightstand drawer, too.

I think I've already answered this thread, but I can't really remember that far back. :rolleyes:

MCgunner
April 29, 2009, 11:56 PM
Actually, I scanned back and I had posted BEFORE I bought my Spartan. I was still using my old SxS 12 for home defense duties. LOL I really got the coach gun because on a dove hunting trip a few years back, I took my GoldWing up to Waco with my autoloading Winchester in a case. I was paranoid to leave the bike the whole trip with the gun strapped on it in a hard case. The coach gun breaks down and fits in the saddle bags, sweet, and works fantastic on birds, too.

LibShooter
April 30, 2009, 12:07 AM
My grandfather kept a Stevens Model 311 by his bed for years. He kept it loaded and open with two rounds of buckshot in the chambers and two taped to barrels. He says he once dispatched three cattle eating coyotes in 10 seconds. Of course they were not shooting back:)

JeffA1
April 30, 2009, 11:53 AM
When it comes down to it its all a matter preference. Fortunatly the likelyhood of having to kill someone in your home is not that great. And I say this living in a suburb of Detroit.

I'd like to respond to a comment to my post about one shot not being enough to take someone down. I'll state the obvious.

Distance is the determining factor. I'll use my home size as an example. It's about a 1,200 sq ft. Coming out of the hallway is an approximate 19'x17' livingroom. The kitchen is to the left of the hallway opening. At those distances no human is going to survive a hit from some larger shot. Even a turkey load to the head is going screw up the invader to the point he won't be able to respond.

I'll stand by my comment about two rounds. If the second perp doesn't crap his pants after seeing his buddy shot in front of him he is probably going to shoot you. And at most home distances he is not going to miss. If there are more than 2 perps you are going to have more than one hole in your body. Or be jumped, disarmed, then shot.

I really like this posting board. I was Googling coach guns and thats how I found it and the topic. I could not resist adding my 2 cents because the existing comments really grabbed my interest.

JShirley
April 30, 2009, 01:59 PM
Coach guns are cool and certainly better than nothing. But, if the only shotgun you were truly considering (for HD) was a coach, I would just go with a pistol instead.

Not I. Stocked weapons have inherent advantages, including speed onto 1st target, reduced speed to secondary targets, and (typically) additional power. Even a single-shot shotgun would be better than a handgun.

To me, there are miles of difference between a single-shot, double, and slide-action SG. I think the difference between 7 and 10 rounds in a defensive handgun is a BIG deal. There's much less difference between 10 and 15.

Much in the same way, I think the difference between 1 or 2 20 gauge or 12 gauge shells is enormous, but the (defensive) difference between 2 and 4 or 5 is much smaller. Single-shot for HD? Not the best choice if funds for more rounds are available. Double? No problem. :)

John

MCgunner
April 30, 2009, 07:47 PM
I'll stand by my comment about two rounds. If the second perp doesn't crap his pants after seeing his buddy shot in front of him he is probably going to shoot you. And at most home distances he is not going to miss. If there are more than 2 perps you are going to have more than one hole in your body. Or be jumped, disarmed, then shot.

These considerations and the fact that my city property taxes are rather exorbitant IMHO and I feel like I pay for something, by gawd I oughta use it, I use the safe room tactic. Bedroom door, all doors in the house are locked. He gets in, he's gonna wake me up. I get on the cell to 911 while grabbing the shotgun. He breaks in that bedroom door, he's history. But, I ain't clearing the house. I'll let the guys who's salary I pay and who take the courses and specialize in such for a living risk their necks.

You wanna be Rambo, fine. Me, I'll be Rambo if I absolutely am forced to, but I'd rather let the guys with the badges be Rambo. It's a small town, but there is crime. It has about 12K souls and an unusually large police force for 12 K people, county seat, too, so the Sheriff is here. I know for a fact response time is less than 10 minutes, usually. I'm only 1.5 miles from the PD and perhaps more importantly, right around the corner from the dough nut shop. :D

CoRoMo
April 30, 2009, 08:07 PM
whats the deal on dominion arms?

Not sure. Their SGs appear to be in the SBS cat.

Mike U.
May 1, 2009, 02:23 AM
i'm only 1.5 miles from the pd and perhaps more importantly, right around the corner from the dough nut shop.

lmao!!:d:d:d

MrBill120
May 1, 2009, 10:16 PM
..ok, going back to the Stoeger with the fixed chokes......does anyone know why Stoeger used the improved cyl & modified choke combination? As opposed to both barrels being the same???

JShirley
May 2, 2009, 03:36 AM
If you were hunting, you would expect the first shot to be closer, and the second longer.

J

Marlin 45 carbine
May 2, 2009, 11:33 AM
..ok, going back to the Stoeger with the fixed chokes......does anyone know why Stoeger used the improved cyl & modified choke combination? As opposed to both barrels being the same???

I don't know why Stoeger does it but my Coach is i.c right and mod left bbl too. I use it rabbit and grouse, very good IMO.
I've seen other makes that do the same.
Stoeger Coach can be spec. ordered with open/open, I suppose that would be ideal for h-d/s-d, but if in a rural area the tighter pattern from a choked bbl could be and advantage too.
I'm fairly good with a pump but sold my 870 some years back when I got my Coach. I have a back-up Makarov to carry with it if needed.

Colton White
May 7, 2009, 12:10 AM
they make cheaper pumps so i dont see why u would buy a SxS as ur only hd shotgun but the coach gun does have a place in the home arsenal as a back up or bug out gun. hide that thing in the kitchen or garage leave it loaded and ul sleep a lil better at night

JShirley
May 7, 2009, 12:13 AM
Welcome to THR.

What does "ur" mean?

Well, if reading the thread might provide some reasons. You did read the thread, right?

John

MCgunner
May 7, 2009, 12:20 AM
IC/Mod, if you have to have a fixed choke gun, its neigh on perfect, especially if it's steel shot compatible. You'll be choked effectively mod/full with steel for ducks and IC/Mod is perfect for doves. You MIGHT want a little more open for quail, but IC/Mod could get the job done nicely there, too, and it's probably how I'd choke if I did much quail hunting.

To me, it's danged dumb to have a side by side choked the same. And, I like double triggers, instant choke selection. Sometimes that first shot is at a high passing bird and you want the extra choke on the first shot. I really like the Spartan and its interchangeable chokes, though. I can open it up for bedroom duty or choke it as needed for the field. The thing is pretty awesome as a multi-role shotgun.

MCgunner
May 7, 2009, 12:23 AM
What does "ur" mean?

I think this is texting kid code for YOUR, you know, too lazy to type or typing on a business card sized keyboard. :rolleyes: I've never gotten into the blackberry, blueberry, dewberry, whatever kinda berry phone they use on the net. To me, a phone is for talking on. LOL!

dawgtraxx
May 7, 2009, 12:31 AM
have a Rossi Overland sittin next to the bed, mule ears and all, fine with it

Ned Kelly
May 7, 2009, 02:42 AM
Too me these types of guns are single shots. I will always have the desire to pull the front trigger first and let both barrels rip to make sure my primary target goes down and stays down.

When the second target sees the first target cut in half, terror would probably come across their face.

Then I will pull the 45 out and mop up.

pmbiker
May 7, 2009, 10:27 PM
I would never bank on a one shot stop, always hope for but never guarantee. There are too many "what-ifs" and unless you make a dead on CNS shot or blow up the dang heart the threat could continue to advance and get off a round or ten. A SxS would suffice if I had no other option but I'd never choose to handicap myself when more modern weapons are readily available.

BA, UU, R. Software trumps hardware in the real world.

Ned Kelly
May 7, 2009, 10:48 PM
I would never depend on the double barrel by itself but as a first strike weapon it would be pretty lethal.

I know that energy between loads vary but I will use a load I am familiar with to paint a picture of just how powerful two barrels going off at once is.

A one ounce slug from a 12 guage roughly generates 2600 ft lbs of Kinetic energy and 100 lb ft per sec of momentum.

Two barrels will generate 5200 ft lbs of Kinetic energy and 200 lb ft per sec of momentum.

Keep in mind that a .577 Tyrannosaur generates 10k ft lbs of Kinetic and roughly 280 lb ft per sec momentum.

That is some tremendous stopping power. If you make contact that person is going to go down hard. If they get back up and can shoot back after that than God must have decided it was your time. Under that kind of punishment I would seriously doubt that ceramic plate would protect you from the shock concussion. It would have to bust an armored person up pretty bad.

The only problem is if you miss. Which is why you would have your secondary armament to fall back on.

pmbiker
May 8, 2009, 11:02 AM
The whole idea of people being knocked down or back after being shot is movie magic at its best. It's simple physics based on Newtons third law of motion.

To every action there is always opposed an equal reaction; or, the mutual actions of two bodies upon each other are always equal, and directed to contrary parts.
- Newton's Third Law of Motion, translated from the Principia's Latin

The shot imparts no more energy to the shootee than to the shooter. If you get a healthy shoove by firing a round of OO buck, that's roughly the amount of energy dumped into the target if all rounds make impact. If the shooter is still able to stand after unloading both barrels, the target will be standing too. Not for long mind you, but not knocked down either.

That combined with the trauma of being perforated will make a nasty wound, likely lethal but not knock a person off their feet. Unless you hit their feet that is.

texas bulldog
May 8, 2009, 12:57 PM
i have two shotguns, both bought with HD in mind...one is a baikal 20" SxS and the other is a remington 870 express HD.

while i will agree to an extent with the folks who argue that the pump is more appropriate for HD, that 7 shots are a whole lot better than 2, and that the risk of short-stroking is generally overblown, i do like the coach gun for a couple reasons:

1. it's significantly lighter and shorter, and the short buttstock fits my frame better. this means i can maneuver with it much better.
2. it points so naturally for me that i don't really even have to use the sights anymore. whenever i start to point it at a target, the sights are already dead on by the time i put my cheek to the stock.

that said, a 1911 is still my first-response weapon. but the coach gun is always nearby if needed. i've been strongly considering paying the $200 tax stamp to cut it under 18", which would have the added benefit of getting rid of the full choke that i cannot for the life of me get out of the left barrel (it was in when i bought it).

JShirley
May 10, 2009, 06:51 PM
I think you'll have greatly diminishing returns on the amount of blast per additional handiness gained.

I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure 19" would be a much better length than 14".

J

Laser1911
May 20, 2009, 08:41 PM
Hi, New member here!

MrBill120,
Don't know if anyone ever answered your question about different chokes on the coach gun.

The different chokes greatly increase the versitility of the little double. Slugs would be better in the open choke tube. More importantly, to be crass, you hit the BG in your living room at 5 yards with the open choke first, then his buddy on the front porch 10 yards further away with the modified barrel, delivering maximum shot density on both.

Now my strange question: Would the True Glow fiber optic turkey sights, which would adhere to the coach gun's rib, help or hinder the coach gun as a HD gun? How 'bout just the front sight? I have lousy old eyes.

Thanx,

Laser

MrBill120
May 20, 2009, 11:35 PM
Yep, I've gotten my answer.

Thanks guys!

galilgunner
May 23, 2009, 12:43 AM
Kinetic energy or Newton's Third Law and all that I know nothing about. But I can tell you what happens to a 200lb white tail deer.

While hunting deer with dogs about 15yrs ago I had a deer pop out of some extremely thick brush at no more than 10 to 15 feet away. I imediately shot him with a Belgium made Browning Light 12 with 2 3/4" #1 buck shot at basically point blank range. It turned him a complete flip and landed him head first in the dirt without so much as kick or a flinch. Now I know that might not be the result every time but it was pretty impressive.

I have a large safe full of guns lots of tactical stuff AR's, FAL para, AK's, UZI's, and lots of pistols. But, I keep a SXS 12ga and a .45 Glock by my bed and sleep real good at night.

mrwilmoth
September 10, 2009, 01:25 AM
wish I could find a colt 1878!

Red Beard
February 6, 2010, 12:40 AM
Picked up a Remington SPR 220F with true hammers today! Internet says these Remington/Baikal imports have stiff actions...not so with mine...smooth as butter.

Deer and bad guys watch out!

2010 Coach gun bump!

http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/cc313/Belt_Fed_Red/Remington.jpg

http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/cc313/Belt_Fed_Red/RemingtonII.jpg

shockwave
February 6, 2010, 12:47 AM
A one ounce slug from a 12 guage roughly generates 2600 ft lbs of Kinetic energy and 100 lb ft per sec of momentum.

Two barrels will generate 5200 ft lbs of Kinetic energy and 200 lb ft per sec of momentum.

The two barrels would deliver 100 lb ft per sec.

KevininPa
February 6, 2010, 12:21 PM
Put a Limbsaver on that thing and you'll really love it! I had one put on mine and it made it a real pleasure to shoot. Also had sling swivels put on it for woods bumming carry. Next step is to make the safety "selective" only. I don't like the automatic feature when the breech is opened and closed. This way a fast cowboy reload is even faster.

ms6852
February 6, 2010, 08:43 PM
Shot guns are great home defense weapons but there is a misconseption that you really don't have to aim to hit the intruder. At 12 feet which is common size and distance in a bedroom inside your home the shot pattern is approximatley 2.5 inches which is pretty darn close. Which in reality if you don't aim you could completely miss the intruder.

GRAYRID3R
February 7, 2010, 02:31 AM
Nice coach gun Red. I have the same one . I love it.:D

Girodin
February 7, 2010, 03:48 AM
The ability to pull both triggers at once is far from a compelling argument to. The split times on firing a second round from a semi is terribly small. Further at the end of those two rounds you have more. Those additional rounds are available much quicker than a reload or even a transition to a secondary, they also are vastly more powerful than rounds in said secondary.

Transitioning also requires that you have both guns and holster up the secondary.

When the second target sees the first target cut in half, terror would probably come across their face.

Counting on the physiological stop is risky business when you are talking about shooting someone let alone them seeing someone else get shot. Why slugs are impressive in power I have seen enough critters shot with them to know that cut in half is a very hyperbolic description. Honestly there is no way to no how any given person would react to seeing someone else shot they might be just as likely to run over and bash your head in with the crow bar they used to break in. Switching to your secondary? Tueller drills come to mind.

I like coach guns. I think they are cool. They certainly can be used for HD. I think they take a back seat to other more modern options in terms of function. I recently shot a 3 gun style course at a private range. We used my S12, a mossy 500, and Remington spartan. The spartan's best time was roughly double that of the S12 (to be fair this spartan did have a stiff action and the shells only came out when you yanked them out). No you are unlikely to have that high of a round count in most probable HD scenarios. Three shots doesn't seem to a fanciful amount to think possible. That was the number fired by Joe Horn at two suspects for example. The time difference between firing three aimed shots from a semi or pump and a coach gun is fairly large.

If the shooter is still able to stand after unloading both barrels, the target will be standing too. Not for long mind you, but not knocked down either.

This is very true but it would seem to me there would be a difference in how that same energy is being imparted. Imagine that you held that same shotgun a 5" from your chest and then fired it. It would have a very different result on you than when it is tucked tight into your shoulder. It still isn't going to knock you on your but but it will thump you much worse.

Borderrat9062
February 7, 2010, 02:27 PM
Hi new member here. I just wanted to put my 2 cents in. Personally I have a Mossberg pump for my home defense gun. I love the thing and a 12 gauge will handle most situations you will ever come across. A side by side can be a viable home defense gun. Just like any other gun for the purpose of home defence the important thing is you take it out and practice with it. Remember the old saying you fight like you train. Any 12 gauge in the hands of someone who has practiced will have no problems.

JTH
February 7, 2010, 02:41 PM
A shotgun is as close as you get for optimum home defense but some shotguns length, can be a negative factor but far better than nothing. I have a Rem. 870 Police issue, the shorter length and higher capacity magazine makes it a bad whammer jammer to come up on the wrong end of it!
Hope I never have to find out but it is always loaded and ready. IMO!

trol79
February 7, 2010, 05:01 PM
Hi, one thing you shuold consider is would enjoy shooting with it ? If you enjoy shooting it you will train more often and become in a faster way more proficiant.;)

mljdeckard
February 7, 2010, 05:59 PM
I think the OP is too concerned with short-stroking. I have NEVER short-stoked a pump shotgun. I was instructed when I was young, manhandle it. Treat it rough. You won't break it. Subtlety isn't something you have in your head when you are running a shotgun. When the adrenaline is running, nothing about running a pump gun seems too labor-intensive.

bushmaster1313
February 7, 2010, 08:27 PM
Excellent choice if conmcerned about stage robbers

Red Beard
February 7, 2010, 11:23 PM
Put a Limbsaver on that thing and you'll really love it! I had one put on mine and it made it a real pleasure to shoot. Also had sling swivels put on it for woods bumming carry. Next step is to make the safety "selective" only. I don't like the automatic feature when the breech is opened and closed. This way a fast cowboy reload is even faster.

Ha, I've been looking at pads...shoulder hurts after a box of birdshot and a few slugs.

I already took a dremel tool to the auto action bar safety, hee-hee!

Federal flight control 00 buck inbound. Might also spring for some S&B #1 buck.

ghitch75
February 8, 2010, 12:39 PM
Bounty Hunter 12g non-hammer sets next to the night stand with Centurion buck and ball in the pipes + 5 on butt strap...
http://i46.tinypic.com/1j2c1x.jpg

oldpuppymax
February 8, 2010, 12:59 PM
Nothing beats a shotgun for home defense.

devildog32713
February 8, 2010, 10:46 PM
It would be great for you, if you are effecient with it, and that suits you, personally, I have a Mossberg 500 8 shot Persuader for HD, but a double would be nice!

LRS_Ranger
February 8, 2010, 11:43 PM
It's whatever you feel comfortable with.. Either way if you do your part, you will splater it all over the wall, be it a semi or a double. I have a Benelli M3 that will hold 9 rounds (floating one on the carrier) and I am still thinking about getting a double just for the simplicity. I figure if I am still half asleep or God forbid I'm not home and my wife has to use it, the simple path might be the best. Same reason I like a revolver as a bedside blaster too.

figment
February 9, 2010, 12:19 PM
reading through this thread there is an occasional mention of firing both barrels, pulling both triggers at once :evil:. I was foolish enough to actually DO this ONCE while in an open field at the deer lease. (12ga coach) The gun ripped itself promptly out of my hands and barely missed my forehead on its way behind me and into the grass. I walked away with a few scratched fingers from the force of the recoil as the gun was ripped out of my hands.

Red Beard
February 9, 2010, 01:19 PM
Well, my experience wasn't quite as dramatic, but I found it pointless to fire both barrels at once.

ghitch75
February 9, 2010, 04:01 PM
if someone is in my house they will get both barrels......then there will be a mess....they wouldn't get in anyone else's house...

AcceptableUserName
February 9, 2010, 04:05 PM
the problem I have rationalizing a coach gun is the price for one of acceptable quality - in this case, Stoeger. In my area, the CHEAPEST you will find a Stoeger on the shelf is 340.00, BEFORE taxes and fees.

For that price, I could get a Mossberg 590a1 on sale (mine was 349.99 last year) that has a metal trigger guard, metal safety tab, HEAVY barrel and 6 shot capacity. At the very least I could come away with a nice 500 persuader and some ammo, or a used Winchester 1300 Defender and ammo.


Guess which one (s) I'd take?


My thoughts are the prices would go down if more companies started introducing a competitor for the Stoeger, but I don't see it happening. If one was given to me, I'd feel snug as a bug in a rug with it as my home gun once I learned to run and operate it properly. It's not the gun - it's the market that prevents me from owning one right now.

figment
February 9, 2010, 04:27 PM
Well, my experience wasn't quite as dramatic, but I found it pointless to fire both barrels at once.I was using 3" shells in this case and the coach gun is pretty light.

I remember looking for related stories on google after that and read a story about a Dallas police officer that went after a crazy guy on a DART buss. He let both barrels go and was knocked unconscious by the gun when it hit him in the head. But he got the guy before he could hurt anyone else IIRC.

DHart
May 8, 2010, 03:31 PM
Coach guns are a real favorite of mine. First introduced to them when getting into Cowboy Action shooting. Picked up a Stoeger 12 ga. Coach Gun, had the action slicked, chambers polished, auto safety made manual, recoil pad added. That made the gun really sweet!

I would generally choose one of my 12 ga. pumps for defensive purposes, but there are times when having a Coach Gun means you will have a shotgun in addition to your pistol, rather than just a pistol alone. I would argue that having a 12 ga. double AND a pistol is a heck of a lot better than the pistol alone.

When I travel, I used to take just a pistol or two. Now, I take the Coach Gun too because it breaks down into three pieces in LITERALLY 2.2 seconds and is no longer than 20". This easily drops into a suitcase, backpack, motorcycle saddle bag, etc. So easy to have along. Short, handy size, light weight, potent! When sleeping in a distant motel or hotel room, it's nice to have the Coach Gun along with a pistol. Probably (hopefully) never need it, but if I had to shoot in defense, I'd like to start with two loads from the Coach Gun before needing to resort to a pistol.

http://i397.photobucket.com/albums/pp59/zmonki/Shotguns%20and%20RIfles/IMG_3595.jpg

http://i397.photobucket.com/albums/pp59/zmonki/Shotguns%20and%20RIfles/CoachGunRig.jpg

http://i397.photobucket.com/albums/pp59/zmonki/Shotguns%20and%20RIfles/CoachGunOpen.jpg

http://i397.photobucket.com/albums/pp59/zmonki/Shotguns%20and%20RIfles/CoachGunTakenDown.jpg

69Rebel
April 1, 2011, 04:04 AM
I've lurked here for awhile, I guess it's time to make a post. And resurrect an old thread at the same time. :D

I have a Rossi Overland that I keep loaded with 00 Buck for things that go bump in the night. I would feel pretty confident wielding it in a HD situation.

Dave McCracken
April 1, 2011, 04:18 PM
Welcome,Reb.

I too would be confident wielding a SxS shotgun during a crisis if.....

I knew the weapon well.

I had shot the thing frequently at various drills and games..

And knew it like my tongue knows my teeth.

IOW, BA/UU/R......

treadhead1952
August 10, 2011, 09:15 AM
I can't resist keeping this one alive.:D

Being a belt and suspenders sort of guy, I have a JW 2000 12 gauge SXS at the head of the bed and a Remington 870 12 gauge Pump just under the right side where I get out. Hard to beat a 12 gauge and while 00 Buck is pretty potent, I prefer #4, more pellets and up close and personal, just as destructive.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v349/treadhead1952/Em12GaugeSXS_002.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v349/treadhead1952/870exp-syn18-prod.jpg

YJake
December 7, 2011, 09:53 PM
I own the Stoeger "Uplander" which is the same gun as the Coach but with a 26" barrel and now I see myself buying its little brother to keep me company at home and by the looks of Dhart's post, on the road too!

-Jake

DHart
December 7, 2011, 10:20 PM
YJake... I have an Uplander as well as the coach gun. My Uplander sees no use whatsoever.

My coach gun, however, is ever present (along with a pump shotgun and some handguns) around my home and RV.

I think you'll be thrilled with the coach gun. I would grab a pump shotgun first (for capacity), if I knew I had serious trouble to deal with, but the coach gun is a great tool, nimble and handy, and has served exceptionally well in a defense capacity for well over 100 years! I would grab my Winchester 1300 8-shot Defender first (if available) and my wife is comfortable grabbing the simpler, point-and-pull-triggers-coach-gun. I guess what it comes down to is that I just like having a coach gun, in addition to other options, at my disposal.

1911Tuner
December 7, 2011, 11:12 PM
I've got an exposed hammer Liberty coach gun standing beside my headboard. The charge is 2.75-inch #4 buck. Across a room, that brings a world of hurt.

EmGeeGeorge
December 7, 2011, 11:36 PM
don't have to worry bout short stroking in a stressful situation...

RX-178
December 8, 2011, 04:00 PM
I've got a Baikal external-hammer coach gun on my Xmas list.

Although with my current schedule it'll likely be a mid-late January post SHOT show Xmas present to myself.

With the way these things break down I might even add it to my BOB.

DHart
December 9, 2011, 12:37 AM
1911Tuner... hey buddy, I don't know if you remember or not, but years ago we had quite a long online interaction about 1911's.... strange how so many years have passed since then. Anyway, just "sayin' hi".

And, this means SO very much to me:

"Speak kindly to me, beloved master. Revel in my unconditional love, and give me every minute that you can spare, for my time with you is short."

I love my golden lab dearly and this is such a great reminder to lavish attention on him whenever and however I can because indeed, his time with me is so, so, so very short. :-(

http://i397.photobucket.com/albums/pp59/zmonki/Harley_Avatar.png

GMcBoozer
December 9, 2011, 01:25 AM
I've got a Stoeger coach, great little scatter gun. It shoots clays and birds great, well, at least so far this year. Only a few issues, the forearm furniture had a hair line crack in it, and it developed some play between the barrels and the rest of the firearm. I talked to Benelli about both issues, and they said they would fix the wood for free (factory defect) and would check on the barrels, and would let me know if anything was unsafe or not. All in all, totally worth the $400 bucks I paid for it. I've received a few offers from range buddy's to buy it, everyone who has shot it has loved it.

DHart
December 9, 2011, 01:31 AM
The Coach gun is not a "premium" SxS shotgun intended for hunting or long range accuracy shotgun shooting.

It's a freakin' defense shotgun!

As such, and within personal-defense shotgun ranges (like within your home or back yard distances) it is PLENTY accurate enough and reliable enough to get the job of defense done splendidly.

Of course if one is looking for a birding SxS shotgun, the longer-barrel and more premium-priced guns are going to be the better choice.

BUT, when it comes to buying a SxS for defense use, I will easily place my full faith and trust in the quality and reliability of a coach gun such as the Stoeger. Ask any cowboy action shooter if they feel the Stoeger Coach Gun can serve well for defense purposes and you will no doubt receive a resounding thumb's up.

Given the opportunity, I'd prefer one of my Winchester 1300 Defenders with 18" barrel and 8-shot capacity if I knew I'd have to do defense against bad people. But I'm always comfortable having my Stoeger 12 ga. Coach Gun loaded and at the ready if I should need to employ a weapon to defend my home or RV.

AJumbo
December 9, 2011, 10:29 PM
I don't own one, but if I did I might take the following steps-

Get the chambers polished to allow my empties to freely eject;

Get one of the DVDs aimed at the CAS crowd about how to manage the coach gun in competition, and study it closely;

Invest in a couple of heavy rubber bands so I can strap a decent flashlight under the barrels;

Maybe have the stock cut down so my girlfriend can use the gun, too. Better,of course, to get her one of her own;

And, most importantly, have a home defense plan in place. An AA12 will avail you nothing without a clear idea of how and when to employ it.

mustanger
December 25, 2011, 01:23 AM
a 20 ga. double with 18-20 inch barrels would be handy, easy to control, and with buck shot rather deadly. The holes when looked at from the bad guys position would look much larger, and the overall much shorter. He is going to think "sawed off shotgun" and if you have one of them you are going to use it, and leave quickly. That is better than to actually have to shoot someone.

kenken
December 25, 2011, 10:26 AM
I want one in 410. Would work just as good.

kenken

mustanger
December 25, 2011, 04:39 PM
.410 would be sweet. Always have been drawn to a .410 double. Would work way better than a 10 ga. and better than a 12 ga. even. A 20 ga. would be ideal. A .410 looks like a .410 where a 20 would look bigger to the intruder and still be manageable. Think about shooting a 10 ga. then think about shooting a short one. Does not good to blow a hole in the cieling and end up with the gun behind you. If you hang on to it, recovery would be slow. Scare factor definately should not be counted on, should only be used in your favor. If you scare the BG away, GOOD. If not then you most definately have a situation on your hands. You can only count on controlability and accuracy. Shoot some paper plates froom 10 feet away and 5 feet. Look at the patern size. Really doesn't matter if you use #12 bird shot or slugs. You will still need the same accuraccy. The choice between shot, buck shot, or slugs, is penatration. Who will be on the other side of the wall. We can't help ourselves, we think of a shotgun as a street sweeper, or an alley cleaner, but it's not. At ten feet you need the same accuracy as with a rifle or pistol. The advantage of a shotgun is less penetration, if you use shot, not the patern. A double can be made shorter than a pump ( making it handier in the house), a short double has a good scare factor that might work in your favor (maybe) but, think of sneaking through somebody elses house and hearing the rack-rack of a pump. Definately would rattle my nerves.
I think the problem with this subject is that so many ideas have good points, but you cannot put them all together in one gun. Take your 26" pump gun, for instance. Afterwords the officer investigating is going to see "bird" gun, That you defended yourself and family with. Not some sawed off, decked out "man killer". He is going to be more simpathetic to you. If you live through it.

mustanger
December 25, 2011, 04:51 PM
I thought I would add this as a seperate post. Give us pause. I outsmarted myself. I took my Stevens 311 20ga. and knowing I would screw it up the first time, I cut it off at 20 inches, for practice, using a hacksaw. That way I would have room to cut it again. I wanted 18 1/2" barrels. Did such a good job that I don't dare cut it again, lol. I have never needed a home defense gun and hope I never will. If I do the only Improvement I would want is a .45 ACP with hollow cavity silver tips on my hip.

KodiakBeer
December 25, 2011, 05:29 PM
My old Baikal is my primary home defense gun, as well as my packing gun for fishing in these parts. I have plenty of guns that I could use for home defense, but this one seems to be the best compromise. In terms of close-range stopping power, there is no compromise at all. Nothing beats a load of buckshot in the chest at close range.

The length makes it nearly as handy as a pistol.

My pump guns would give me more shots, but they are also a heavier and longer package and maybe slower to get on target in the close confines of a home. My first two shots will be quicker than a pump, and reloads (with practice) are pretty fast. At any rate, I'm more concerned about getting that first shot in the right place than in having more shots on tap.

http://i896.photobucket.com/albums/ac164/kodiakbeer/BaikalSmall.jpg

ROCK6
December 26, 2011, 01:07 AM
Great thread despite the frequent resurrections :D

I personally have a Mossy 590 on my side of the bed (along with an AR). However, my wife struggled with the pumps and really didn't want to invest the time to train on it. She's quite proficient with her handguns, but I still wanted her to have a shotgun on her side of the bed...especially when I'm deployed or gone for extended times (such as now in Afghanistan). I picked up a Baikal coach...it wasn't expensive and more of an experiment. My wife loves it. She doesn't care to shoot to many of the full-powered buckshot loads, but understands their purpose for home defense. The size and weight fits her well; two shotgun rounds are better than none. She needs to work on her reloading, but at least she enjoys shooting it and is comfortable with it by the bed. My only regret was not letting her try a 20 gauge. I really think that would have better a better choice for her considering her frame and size and recoil tolerance. She's okay with the 12 ga, but I think she could be better with the 20 gauge. I may get her a new one and give the Baikal to my son...???

She did shoot my Mossy 930 and actually like that, but needs a shorter stock. That's another good option, but for now...she has her 9mm and coach gun by the bed while I'm playing in Afghanistan...I can sleep comfortably enough with that.

I have really considered picking up a Stoeger coach for the same reason of being able to break it down for road trips. Either that or pick up a another cheap Mossberg 500 (or both:D).

Regardless, it's a great thread to read on the other side of the world...cheers and happy holidays!

ROCK6

dprice3844444
December 26, 2011, 01:24 AM
mike,after you left loose with the first round,it's gonna be hard to see through the brown cloud much less worry bout short stroking it.

schultzie
December 30, 2011, 11:12 AM
Hey KodiakBeer,

Where did you get the leather buttstock ammunition carrier?


For me, my new stoeger coach gun points naturally and I believe that I could accurately launch two rounds much more quickly than with my beloved model 12 or my M1S90 (assuming starting from a low ready position). When things go bad, the first on target will secure a distinct advantage. I'll reserve final judgement until I train further with the coach gun -- got to polish the chambers first.

Happy New Year,
Richard

RevolvingGarbage
December 30, 2011, 01:17 PM
Having kept a pump action 12 gauge around for defense in the past, and now having a 16 gauge coach gun for the same purpose, I can honestly say that I feel more confident in the double.

I never realized how clunky and akward the pump action was until I got to use the double. the pointability and feel is just so much more natural.

The disadvantages are certainly worth noting. Two rounds is not a great amount of firepower, but if one practices reloads its not exactly slow to run either.

dprice3844444
December 30, 2011, 01:26 PM
if they madem with auto ejectors,it would be so much nicer.crack the action,spents pop out,no fumbling with spent shells.

escort shotguns through legacy sports sells a nice 18 inch interchangeable choke over/under plastic furniture. ham12ou11801 model.with lower rail

http://www.legacysports.com/products/esc_ou.html

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