keeping both eyes open


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Bill2k1
December 24, 2005, 04:50 PM
I am right eye dominant, and I have always closed my left eye while aiming. I did some training, and they prefered you to keep both eyes open (this was what you could call combat handgun training). I would half close my left eye, or more like squint right before I shot. I always equated it to a shotgunner who puts a smudge on their glasses to force an eye to dominate.

Are there any hints? When I try to keep both eyes open, I see one front sight and two rear sights, is that normal? I should have asked then, but they didn't seem to mind, one instuctor closed an eye too. Should I even bother changing? The squint a moment before shooting has become automatic.

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bobhaverford
December 24, 2005, 05:25 PM
I'm left eye dominant and so, out of necessity, have to close my left eye. They say that I can train to keep both eyes open, which I would prefer, but I've had no luck.

Both eyes open is time tested and clearly superior PARTICULARLY if you are right eye dominant.

Canuck-IL
December 24, 2005, 05:33 PM
A number of Bullseye shooters have tried it, forced themselves to become comfortable with it and eventually report significantly less fatigue during long matches. I think you can go with an occluder hanging over the non-dominant eye but providing complete sight blockage or some use a strip of Scotch tape over the lens...eventually it's said you can work up to both eyes fully opened.

/Bryan

Mizzle187
December 24, 2005, 06:09 PM
I dont know why,I havent had any training but I always shot pistols with both eyes open. Every now and then Ill close my right eye when screwing around. I do know people that shoot with both eyes closes!:D On the other hand Im right handed but left eye dominent and its a disadvantage when I shoot rifles.

Jenrick
December 24, 2005, 06:20 PM
I'd say learn to use both eyes. If you ever have to shoot in a high stress situation you'll have both eyes open by automatic nervous action. Your body wants as much information as possible, and closing one eye does not fit into that, it'll open them both for yeah. I found that out in FOF training, and have been working on it ever since.

-Jenrick

Vern Humphrey
December 24, 2005, 06:51 PM
I'm right eye dominant, and far sighted in the right eye, nearsighted in the left eye. So when it comes to shooting a handgun, I use the left eye for the sights and the right eye for the target -- it takes some training, but it really pays off (especially when the sights get so fuzzy you can't align them with the dominant eye.)

Standing Wolf
December 24, 2005, 08:54 PM
I used to be able to shoot with both eyes open; then again, I used to be able to see iron sights, too. Oh, well!

f4t9r
December 24, 2005, 11:24 PM
practice , practice , practice
You can do it !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ChickenHawk
December 25, 2005, 01:44 AM
I forced myself to learn how to shoot with both eyes open.

Now, I can shoot much longer with much less fatigue and -MOST IMPORTANT- my acurracy has improved quite a bit.

It took me a good month of bi-weekly practice to start to get really comfortable. Then practice, practice, practice.

Regards,
ChickenHawk

bg
December 25, 2005, 03:46 AM
Man did I ever have trouble with this..Still do sometimes, but not
much. I was seeing the same thing. Single front sight and double
rear sight. One day I was trying to get used to doing it and just for the heck
of it turned my head/body to a 30 degree angle towards the right
so my eyes have to look down the ramp towards the left.
I too am right eye dominate. Low and behold everything cleared
up pretty nice, and I've found that holding the weapon this way
help control recoil as it just kind of "rolls" off my right arm. I use
a modified two hand stance to fire my shortarms.

As far as a rifle, still don't that one figured out yet..:rolleyes:

WarMachine
December 26, 2005, 02:15 AM
It's a strange thing to do, but only practice and repetition will make it natural. The only time I ever close one eye is during magnified shooting with scoped rifles.

Texfire
December 26, 2005, 01:56 PM
I just can't seem to manage this, I'm totally unable to tell which sight picture is for what eye. Everytime I do I end up with the sights centered on neither eye. Is there some trick I'm missing? I can see how for point shooting it would be natural, but for sighted fire I can't see how you can aim with both eyes open.

Tex

DMK
December 26, 2005, 02:06 PM
Double post

DMK
December 26, 2005, 02:08 PM
I just can't seem to manage this, I'm totally unable to tell which sight picture is for what eye. Everytime I do I end up with the sights centered on neither eye. Is there some trick I'm missing? I can see how for point shooting it would be natural, but for sighted fire I can't see how you can aim with both eyes open.

Tex

When I try to keep both eyes open, I see one front sight and two rear sights, is that normal? Yes that is normal (I see two front sights). You have to train yourself to use the proper image of the sights (the right one if you are right eye dominant) and ignore the other, just like you ignore all the other stuff in your peripheral vision. The only thing that will help you feel comfortable with this is to practice, practice, practice until it becomes second nature. Use a .22LR or pellet gun a lot. Remember, focus on the front sight...squeeze.

Vern Humphrey
December 26, 2005, 03:29 PM
I just can't seem to manage this, I'm totally unable to tell which sight picture is for what eye. Everytime I do I end up with the sights centered on neither eye. Is there some trick I'm missing? I can see how for point shooting it would be natural, but for sighted fire I can't see how you can aim with both eyes open.

Tex

Think of it like typing -- if you stop and THINK about where your fingers are going, you'll be all messed up. Similarly, don't THINK about what you're seeing with each eye.

Normally, you see with both eyes, right? And you have no problems merging the view from each separate eye into a single picture. That's what you have to do to shoot with both eyes open.

Practice with your finger -- point it at a distant object, with both eyes open, while looking at the distant object. If you THINK about it, you will see two fingers. But you can ignore one of them.

Graduate from this exercise to using a firearm -- unloaded. At first, look OVER the sights at the target, and work to bring the sights into focus, while maintaining a view of the target.

Texfire
December 26, 2005, 05:18 PM
Think of it like typing -- if you stop and THINK about where your fingers are going, you'll be all messed up. Similarly, don't THINK about what you're seeing with each eye.

Normally, you see with both eyes, right? And you have no problems merging the view from each separate eye into a single picture. That's what you have to do to shoot with both eyes open.

Practice with your finger -- point it at a distant object, with both eyes open, while looking at the distant object. If you THINK about it, you will see two fingers. But you can ignore one of them.

Graduate from this exercise to using a firearm -- unloaded. At first, look OVER the sights at the target, and work to bring the sights into focus, while maintaining a view of the target.

Okay trying it the way your describe I focus on a point across the room then point at it with my finger. Closing my right eye first, then my left eye I find that the finger is mostly inline with my dominant left eye. It is shifted slightly to the right, but with practice that could be fixed.

The problem is when I try it with sights I'm not rejecting one duplicate image, I'm actually seeing two front sights and two rear sights. Figuring out which sights to pair together is what trips me up keeping both eyes open. Half the time I line up the wrong pair. I find it impossible to focus on the target and the sights at the same time, so I have to deal with the non-superimposed sights.

Is my problem that I'm focusing on the target instead of the sights?

Tex

Vern Humphrey
December 26, 2005, 05:33 PM
Okay trying it the way your describe I focus on a point across the room then point at it with my finger. Closing my right eye first, then my left eye I find that the finger is mostly inline with my dominant left eye. It is shifted slightly to the right, but with practice that could be fixed.

The problem is when I try it with sights I'm not rejecting one duplicate image, I'm actually seeing two front sights and two rear sights. Figuring out which sights to pair together is what trips me up keeping both eyes open. Half the time I line up the wrong pair. I find it impossible to focus on the target and the sights at the same time, so I have to deal with the non-superimposed sights.

Is my problem that I'm focusing on the target instead of the sights?

Tex

That's it in a nutshell -- you can easily focus on the distant point with both eyes open. It's focussing on the near object (the sights) you need to practice.

Start, as I said, by looking at the distant object over the sights, then transfer focus to the sights. It takes about 3,000 reps to make it smooth and automatic.

Texfire
December 26, 2005, 10:59 PM
That's it in a nutshell -- you can easily focus on the distant point with both eyes open. It's focussing on the near object (the sights) you need to practice.

Start, as I said, by looking at the distant object over the sights, then transfer focus to the sights. It takes about 3,000 reps to make it smooth and automatic.

So you're actually finding the target, superimposing the unfocused sights, then changing your focus to the sights to fine tune your aim? Or am I missing the point?

Tex

Vern Humphrey
December 27, 2005, 10:22 AM
So you're actually finding the target, superimposing the unfocused sights, then changing your focus to the sights to fine tune your aim? Or am I missing the point?

Tex

Correct -- because that's how it happens in real life. You don't go around with your eyes focussed on the sights and pick up a target. You see the target (game, threat) and bring up the gun.

Average Joe
December 27, 2005, 06:39 PM
I'm teaching myself to shoot with both eyes open. Its not easy for an old coot like me to change after all these years, but I am getting the nack of it, and getting better all the time. Always willing to try new things.

Vern Humphrey
December 27, 2005, 06:56 PM
I always shot with both eyes open, with age I developed far-sightedness in my right (dominant) eye and near-sightedness in my left eye. I had to train myself to aim with the left eye -- which sees the sights with needle sharpness, but the target is almost invisible. With both eyes open -- and a lot of practice -- I see the sights very sharply, and the target just as sharply.

Janitor
December 27, 2005, 07:18 PM
A few years back I was deer hunting on a nasty, windy, heavy snow day. I was squatting by a large oak by the side of a hill when I heard something come crashing through the woods above me. I turned my head to the right, and out of the corner of my eye I saw a large buck coming full tilt downhill through the chaos of the storm. He was coming fast, and was going to cross an opening to my right at about 30'.

I shouldered the 7mm Mag, bringing the scope up as I snicked the safety off, and only then realized that the scope had been left at 9X from checking zero the day before. I saw nothing but brown. Yea. Think quick. crank it down ... not bloody likely.

I shoot with both eyes open so Mrs Janitor got to make her special chili.

The end.
-

BTW - For those that are wondering. Yes. 7mm Rem Mag is marvelously adequate for deer sized game at 30'. :D
-

wolfman01
December 27, 2005, 07:25 PM
Some friends of mine used to host CCW classes. We were talking at their local newspaper (I used to do some freelance for them back then), and they told me to do the finger thing. From then on, that was the eye that I'm supposed to use for my sights. I also have very poor vision with a heavy prescription for my glasses. I'm very right eye dominant, and it's actually common for my left eye to go "blind" when I'm lining up a target. If I force myself to use my left eye, I can't hit the broadside of a barn. When I use my right eye, I tend to generate alot of compliments on my accuracy by fellow shooters, even when firing unfamiliar weapons.

My brother asked me about how I managed to keep such a tight grouping. I told him what I was told, and he improved immediately.

squeaks
December 27, 2005, 11:38 PM
I'm a new shooter too, but in using a pellet gun I've managed to figure out what works for me, and practice has made it more automatic.

There are 3 points where you can focus when shooting: rear sight, front sight, and target. On the single place you focus you will only see 1 image. The other 2 locations you will see the true image of your dominant eye, and a ghost image of your non-dominant eye. The two images appear side by side. For each of the 3 places that you can focus you have to determine the 2 other images that are 'correct'.

So, pick one of the 3 focal points to determine the correct images. I've been practicing the front sight focus. So then I see 2 targets and 2 rear sights. To figure out the correct target and rear sight cover the non-dominant eye, focus on the front sight, then line up the gun to the target. Uncover the non-dominant eye and 2 extra ghost images will appear next to the target and rear sight. Remember which images are correct. In the case of front sight focus, the right target is the correct one (for me - right eye dominant). I think the left rear sight is correct, but with practice it becomes automatic and you forget.

I suspect with more practice I won't even see the 'wrong' images. The wrong rear sight already does not appear to me. Sometimes the incorrect target also disappears.

I hope this helps some people.

Spec ops Grunt
December 28, 2005, 12:26 AM
I see two rear sights and two front sights. Is that normal?

squeaks
December 28, 2005, 10:15 AM
I see two rear sights and two front sights. Is that normal?

You must be focusing on the target. That is normal. You just need to close your non-dominant eye, line up your gun on the target, then open your non-dominant eye to figure out the correct images.

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