S & W 32 long CTG??


PDA






Pages : [1] 2

francesgun
December 25, 2005, 03:28 PM
Trying to find when the gun was made and to find some history behind the gun. Excellent condition........also trying to find out if it has any value.

S&W 32 Long CTG serial number 518906.........pat numbers feb 6,06 sept 14, 09 dec 29, 14

thanks

If you enjoyed reading about "S & W 32 long CTG??" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
Old Fuff
December 25, 2005, 09:15 PM
francesgun:

Welcome to The High Road forum... :D

I'll try to help you, but your description is rather sparse. With a clear understanding that I could be wrong, this is what I think you have based on the barrel markings and patent dates you provided:

Smith & Wesson 1903 .32 Hand Ejector/Third Model. These were made between 1917 to 1942 in a serial number range from 263,001 to 536,684. I would roughly date your gun as having been made during the late 1930's or possibly 1940 at the latest. These were small, 6-shot revolvers chambered in .32. S&W Long. Standard barrel lengths were 3 1/4, 4 1/4 and 6 inches, with the latter being scarce. Standard finishes were blue or nickel plate with black hard-rubber stocks. Some late production guns had checkered walnut stocks. All had round butt frames, but some were fitted with slightly oversized walnut stocks that converted them to a square-butt configuration. A handfull were equipped with adjustable target sights, but fixed sights were the norm. Value depends on condition, running about $175.00 for average to $300.00 for like-new. Special stocks, barrel lengths or sights would increase the value to some degree.

If this doesn't seem to match what you have come back with a more complete description and I'll try again.

georgie
March 27, 2006, 09:15 PM
I have a old "S & W 32 Long CTG" stamped on the barrel. I am guessing on the serial number 115xx( stamped on the cylinder and on the bottom of the barrel) . Can anyone guess on the age or a time when this weapon might have been made? Any help would be appreciated.

Old Fuff
March 27, 2006, 11:55 PM
georgie:

Welcome to the High Road. :)

I'd like to help you, but your description could cover several different makes and models of revolvers.

If you could post a picture it would be a great help. If not we'll need a more complete description.

Are there patent dates on the top or side of the barrel? If so, what are they?

Is there a number stamped on the bottom of the butt? If so, what is it?

What kind of material are the grips made out of? (Wood, black hard rubber, something else?)

How long is the barrel, measured from the cylinder face to the end of the muzzle?

Was the revolver originnally blued, nickel plated or don't know?

The more descriptive information you can post the easier it is to identify your gun.

mjm202036
July 1, 2006, 05:29 PM
An elderly neighbor has asked me to find out the age of her S&W .32 pistol. It is a 32 Long CTG also on the right side of the barrel with the serial number 539027 on the bottom of the handle, underside of the barrel and backside of the cylinder. It has a 4 1/4 inch barrel. The handle is pearl. The body I think is nickle plated. The S&W trademark is stamped just under the catch release on the left side. The sites are fixed. Inside the housing for the cylinder, where the joint of the arm that moves the cylinder out is the following engraving ... 5232 with an "M" just above and left of the "5" with a number "6" directly under the "5" and the number "8" below and to the right of the "6". The numbers "5232" are also engraved on the arm that holds the cylinder. I hope that is enough information so someone can help me figure out the age of this weapon, since the weapon is past the serial number range that was listed earlier. Thanks.

Old Fuff
July 1, 2006, 09:11 PM
Again a picture would be a great help... :)

The best clue you provided was the 4 1/4" barrel length, which would tend to suggest that it is a S&W .32 Hand Ejector (Post-War) "Pre Model 30" That was made shortly after World War Two. In 1949 serial numbers started at 356685 and ended in 1960 at 712953. At 359027 I suspect the revolver in question was made during 1949 or '50.

An exact date can be determined for a fee of $30.00 which will bring an official letter from Mr. Roy Jinks, S&W's company historian. He will go back and research the records at the factory, and provide all of the available details on that particular gun. For more information go to the Smith & Wesson company website at: www.smith-wesson.com

mjm202036
July 3, 2006, 06:32 PM
:)
Here are four different pictures of the pistol. To me, the pictures make it look like has a black finish, but it's actually nickle/silver in color. I hope that this will help better decide what you might think of the weapon. Got to clean it now and get it back to the owner. I'm sure she will be pleased to know that it's been narrowed down to the years you've already helped me get it to.

If ever get the spare $30, I'll pay it to find out more. Just have to weigh the price of a 3/4 tank of gas :cuss: or history of a neighbors pistol. :banghead:

Old Fuff
July 3, 2006, 08:28 PM
Your pictures are good enough to confirm the information in post #6, which is as close as we are going to get it. Anything closer will require a letter from Mr. Jinks.

The pearl stocks are really plastic, Made by the J. Scott Company, rather then genuine mother-of-pearl. The revolver came from the factory with checkered walnut grips. You are correct in thinking that it is nickel plated - a standard factory option at the time.

gezzer
July 3, 2006, 11:07 PM
539027, is a post war model made from 1946-1960, this number is most likely in the 47-48 years.

Old Fuff
July 4, 2006, 01:14 AM
539027, is a post war model made from 1946-1960, this number is most likely in the 47-48 years.

I once thought that was the case, but in his book; History of Smith & Wesson, Roy Jinks says:

"When the .32 Hand Ejector was placed back into production on July 14, 1949, several changes were made. The large knob on the end of the extractor rod was eliminated and the new type of hammer block, developed in 1944 was incorporated."
History of Smith & Wesson by Roy G. Jinks, p.149

I chose to go with Jinks on this one. :)

depicts
July 4, 2006, 04:15 PM
Old Fluff, I have a similar .32 Long that I thought was a 1905 3d Model HE. Is there a 1903 and a 1905 3d Model, and if so, what is the major difference?

I'm just referring to your firsst post on this thread

Thanks

Hammerdown
July 5, 2006, 08:13 AM
Hello
The S&W model 30 & 31 are great little shooters. They are accurate and have a very mild recoil. My 31 is from around 1967 and is a pleasure to shoot. Before all the Magnum Hype, many Police agencies carried this round on a daily Basis. Regards, Hammerdown
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v258/hammerdown-7/DSCF5436.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v258/hammerdown-7/da752ebe.jpg

Old Fuff
July 5, 2006, 10:53 AM
Old Fluff, I have a similar .32 Long that I thought was a 1905 3d Model HE. Is there a 1903 and a 1905 3d Model, and if so, what is the major difference?

The 1905 Hand Ejectors were built on S&W's K-frame, and so far as .32 caliber was concerned they were chambered in .32-20 (.32 WCF). There were some exceptions, but they are so scarce that we probably don't need to concern ourselves here.

The 1903 Hand Ejectors were originally based on S&W's smaller I-frame, and later after World War Two changed to the J-frame. These guns were chambered in .32 S&W Long (6 shot) or .38 S&W (5 shot).

Both the 1903 and 1905 series of .32 Hand Ejectors had a 3rd. model, but they are not related, and run in different serial number ranges and dates of manufacture.

depicts
July 7, 2006, 11:22 AM
Old Fluff, thanks, I had been reading the SCSW wrong, and thought my gun was a l905. I can tell from your description it is a 1903, 6 shot .32 long. It's a fun little gun. Tiny sights, but I love it anyway.

Thanks for the information. Once again you have helped me, and a lot of other noobies here on line.

vansgrndsn
July 12, 2006, 04:54 PM
From reading all the previous inquiries about the S&W .32, I think a have a good grasp on what info is helpful in determining age. Could anyone give me a ballpark on age and value?

Smith & Wesson 32-20 CTG
Serial#: 110636
Manf. in Springfield, Ma.
Patent dates on barrell: Oct.8.01 Dec.17.01 Feb.6.06 Sept.14.09 Dec.29.14
There is also a number engraved on the hinge for the revolver chamber when opened. The number is 43899.
This revolver has a 5 1/4" barrel, total flat measure length of revolver is 11", from tip of barrell to back end of handle. It has a fixed fore-sight.
Four screws on the left side; one screw on the inner slope of the handle.
The handle is wood (not sure what type). Diamond shaped designs [xxxx] with a single large diamond in the center of the wood, on each side, holding another screw.

This is the best description I can provide, less an actual picture. Any info that anyone can provide would be greatly appreciated.

Old Fuff
July 12, 2006, 07:12 PM
Your description is very complete... :)

You have a Smith & Wesson .32-20 Hand Ejector Model of 1905; 4th Change.

They were made between 1915 to 1940 in a serial number range running from 65,701 to 144,684 with some 78,983 guns being manufactured. I would estimate your revolver was made sometime during the 1920's. Heat treated cylinders started at #81,287. Standard barrel lengths were 4, 5 and 6 inches.

Value depends on condition, but an example with a perfect bore and chambers, O.K. mecanics, and at least 95% original finish is worth about $300.00 give-or-take.

The revolver itself is identical to the Military & Police model (later called the Model 10) except it is chambered in .32-20 rather then .38 Special.

vansgrndsn
July 12, 2006, 09:37 PM
Hey, I REALLY appreciate the feedback Old Fuff
My grandpops said it was given to him when he was about 16. Since then, he has only fired it twice, max. The finish has seen the times, but it has all the original parts as manufactured. What would be a good method of restoring the luster of the metal finish without compromising it's authenticity. The pic on #12 by Hammerdown, of the Model 31 above is just outstanding. I'd like to bring it back to a near mint condition and build a case and ID plate with some of the revolvers history as a just-cause gift for the big-guy. What are some good sources (books, sites, etc.), to start with.

Yitbos69
July 24, 2006, 06:39 PM
I have my grandfathers S&W .32 Long CTG revolver SN#97013 Pat Dates MArch 27 1894, Aug 4th 1896, Oct 8th 1901, Dec 17th 1901, Feb 8 1906.

The color is nickel/chrome it has a walnut diamond pattern grip with a Pat date June 5th 191X

It has the S&W trade mark on the left side of the revolver.

Any information you could give on date of production and value would be great!!

Thanks.

Old Fuff
July 24, 2006, 07:43 PM
Yitbos69:

Welcome to The High Road, and all of that good stuff. :D

You have... A Smith & Wesson .32 Regulation Police (Pre-War). The patent date on the bottom of the stocks is June 5, 1917

These were a square-butt version of S&W's popular .32 Hand Ejector; Model 1903. Production started in 1917 in the 262,000 range and the serial number was stamped on the forestrap of the frame, the rear of the cylinder, and the flat on the bottom of the barrel above the ejector rod. The number you cited ( 97,013) is way too low for a serial number, so I suspect it may be an assembly number stamped on the frame, under the barrel and behind the yoke. Barrel length were 3 1/4", 4 1/4" and 6" (measured from the cylinder face to the end of the muzzle. Standard finishes were blue or nickel plate. Production of this version ended in 1940, but it was reinstated after the war as the model 31.

carl418
July 24, 2006, 08:24 PM
I thought I had this down pat, but I see I don't! lol.... I have on layaway a .32 Hand Ejector Third Model, serial number 264xxx. According to the serial number, it was made in 1911. But according to SCSW, that model didn't start manufacture until 1917. According to History of S&W (Roy Jinks), that model was 'Incorporated' 1911, produced until 1942. The .32 Hand Ejector Model of 1903 Fifth Change incorporated 1910, produced until 1917. So, it looks like they were being made in some of the same years (1911-1917), and the one I have kept on until 1942. Is that about right? And..... SCSW sais that they are identical in external appearances. So, what was the difference, and why did they make two different guns at the same time? Thanks in advance for the help, and sorry for such a long post!:) :)

BluesBear
July 24, 2006, 09:19 PM
Standard Catalog of Smith & Wesson,
Second Edition
Page 93
.32 HAND EJECTOR THIRD MODEL
... Identical in appearance to the 1903 5th Change Model. Serial numbered concurrently with the .32 Regulation Police. Serial range 263001 to 536684 with 271,531 manufactured circa 1917-1942.

Appears to me that yours numbered 264xxx was one of the first ones and was made in 1917.

Old Fuff
July 24, 2006, 09:28 PM
carl418:

Question: Does your soon-to-be revolver have a round butt and black, hard rubber stocks, or a square butt and checkered walnut ones? Or are they entirely different?

Both the .32 1903 Hand Ejector (round butt) and .32 Regulation Police (square butt) models were serial numbered in the same series, but the Regulation Police model was introduced in 1917 in the 262,000 range. .32 Hand Ejectors made at the same time were also numbered in the 262,000 range, and on up so I would estimate that gun #264,xxx was made during 1917 or as late as the early 1920's because World War One got in the way.

carl418
July 24, 2006, 09:32 PM
Mine is the round butt with the black hard rubber grips. And, that SCSW date of 1917 differs from Roy Jinks' History of Smith and Wesson, page 149. That was part of my question, or rather.... loooong disertation! lol... anyway, when I look up the serial number in SCSW, it dates it to 1911.

carl418
July 24, 2006, 09:38 PM
Maybe I should rephrase that manufacture date.... on page 293 of the SCSW, it lists 32 Hand Ejector Series and Models 30,31... Under 3rd Model, it sais 1911-1942. Serial numbers starting at 263001. I would think a 264 would be closer to 1911 than 1917, but that's one of the reasons I'm asking questions here...... I'm no expert! lol

Old Fuff
July 24, 2006, 09:50 PM
I checked, and you're right. But the 1911 date is a typo - it should be 1917.

The .32 Hand Ejector, Model of 1903, 5th change was made from 1910 to 1917 within a serial number range running from 102,501 to 263,000.

History of Smith & Wesson/Jinks: page 148

So your revolver, No. 264,xxx was made in 1917 or later.

I have personally inspected .32 Regulation Police models with serial numbers in the 262,000 range. Part of the confusion is caused because S&W would make and serial number frames, and build them into guns later - sometimes years later.

carl418
July 24, 2006, 10:00 PM
So, does that mean that mine is the next generation of the Model of 1903? And, what about the Roy Jinks book saying the Third Model started in 1911? It seems there are a lot of inconsistancies about this gun in those two books. Thanks for all your help, I really would like to get this right.

Yitbos69
July 24, 2006, 10:06 PM
Thanks for the info Fuff,

I have another gun its a S&W .38 ctg SN#148256 Auto eject hammerless.
Pat. Dates Aug 4th 1885, April 9th 1889, Oct 4th 1889. Has tha S&W Trademark of the right side of the revolver and both sides of the grip. Here are a couple of picture.

Also the butt of my .32 is oval

Thanks again for your help

Old Fuff
July 24, 2006, 10:14 PM
Depends on what you call the "next generation" Given the serial number I would say that it's a: .32 Hand Ejector; 3rd. MODEL made from 1917 to 1942 in the serial number range 263,001 to 536,684

It followed the .32 Hand Ejector; 5th CHANGE made from 1910 to 1917 in a serial number range running from 102,501 to 263,000

Be aware that there is a difference between a "model," and a "change." Also some overlapping of serial numbers is possible.

Clear as mud? :scrutiny:

carl418
July 24, 2006, 10:22 PM
Very much better, thanks to you and this forum! I'm still a little unsure why the two books give different dates, depending where you look, tho.... But, I do understand more than I did! Thanks for all your help! :)

BluesBear
July 25, 2006, 02:14 AM
Because the two books were researched and published at two different times. Therefore as new information is uncovered the facts don't change so much as they just become clearer.

Jim & Richard are currently working on the Third Edition of The Standard Catalog and once that is published I'm sure there will be even more confusion as things become even more confirmed.

This is one more reason I find the $30 factory history letter to be a bargain.

carl418
July 25, 2006, 06:19 AM
Do you feel that spending the $30 would be worthwhile in my case? Other than knowing for sure the date of manufacture, would that add anything to the gun? I've wondered about that, as there were several made, and this one is run of the mill, but in great shape with original box.

BluesBear
July 25, 2006, 07:29 AM
I've never seen a case where a plain jane sent to a hardware store gun didn't sell for $50 more simply because it had the letter.

Besides it's nice to know where exactly the gun was shipped to and exactly what date.
Besides you might uncover something really cool and unique about it.

And, heaven forbid you should ever need it, it's also the kind of documentation insurance companies love/loathe.

carl418
July 25, 2006, 07:38 AM
hmmmm... I hadn't thought of the insurance side of it... thanks for the sound advice!

Old Fuff
July 25, 2006, 10:35 AM
If your revolver is in excelent shape and in the original box (few boxes survived) you have a lot of collector value built in to start with. Add the letter and the total value of the package would far exceed the cost of the letter, or the value of the package without the letter.

Also no one knows when S&W might decide to end this service or increase the fee. At Colt such letters cost $100.00 :what: and sometimes more. :eek:

Yitbos69
July 25, 2006, 10:39 AM
Thanks for the info Fuff,

I have another gun its a S&W .38 ctg SN#148256 Auto eject hammerless.
Pat. Dates Aug 4th 1885, April 9th 1889, Oct 4th 1889. Has tha S&W Trademark of the right side of the revolver and both sides of the grip. Here are a couple of picture.

Also the butt of my .32 is oval

Thanks again for your help
Attached Thumbnails

carl418
July 25, 2006, 07:10 PM
When I get it paid off, I'll post pics here. It really is in very excellent shape, but the box has seen better days. Still in one piece tho. I won't have it until September tho. I'm a poor man! lol.. :D

Old Fuff
July 25, 2006, 07:11 PM
Yitbos69:

You have a revolver that has always been one of my personal favorites… :)

A Smith & Wesson .38 Safety Hammerless – also known as the “New Departure” model. At the factory they simply called them the “Safety.”

Serial No. 148,256 falls into the 4th Model run – made between 1898 and 1907 in a serial number range from 116,003 to around 220,000. Standard barrel lengths were 3 ¼”, 4”, 5” and 6”. Standard finishes were blue or nickel plate (usually with a blued trigger guard). The 5-shot cylinder was chambered for the .38 S&W cartridge. The stocks are black hard rubber, and fitted to the individual gun – you’ll find the serial number marked on the inside of one or both stocks.

The gun was a mainstay in the S&W line, and remained in production from 1887 until 1940 – possibly a year more. It was considered an ideal pocket or bedside table gun because of the combination of a double-action trigger pull combined with the grip safety (long before Browning and others incorporated the feature into automatic pistols). The action was designed in such a way that the trigger pull actually got lighter as the hammer reached the release point. This gave an experienced user a chance to align the sights just before the revolver went off.

Don’t dry fire it unless you have snap-caps or empty cartridge cases in the chambers. Otherwise you’ll mash the firing pin spring or break the tip off of the firing pin.

Yitbos69
July 26, 2006, 11:43 AM
Old fuff,

Thanks for the info on the two guns. It was very helpful.

Yitbos69
July 26, 2006, 03:52 PM
Fuff,

I think I found the SN for the S&W .32 long ctg. #49999 does this help nail down the date?

I have also attached few pictures

Thanks again

Bobhwry
July 26, 2006, 07:22 PM
Why do older Colts command much higher prices than old S&W's of similiar caliber and vintage??

Old Fuff
July 27, 2006, 02:15 AM
Yitbos69:

You have a Smith & Weson .32 Regulation Police model. It is a variant of the .32 1903 Hand Ejector (round butt) that was introduced in 1917 at serial numbers in the high 262,00 serial number range. I'd peg the date of manufacture of your gun as being around 1928. Barrel length was 4 1/4". You also have a neat period holster to go with it. These are harder to find then the gun itself.

You'll find additional information on the Regulation Police in other posts within this thread.

indy_shooter
July 27, 2006, 07:43 AM
First post here, nice forum.

I have the same gun shown on post # 7 of this thread.

More details:
sn 3590xx, patented feb 6, 06 sept 14, ??, dec 2?,14
som rust is making the patent difficult.

My father has had this since the Korean war and I would like to fix it. A screw fell out of the right side of the frame, above the trigger, it is the screw that holds the cylinder assembly in the frame. Also the pearl (plastic) grips are broken.

Can you show me on brownells, numerich or somewhere you recommend which S&W model I would buy parts for ?

The big hurdle is knowing the model, none of the models mentioned in this thread appear as options on brownell or numeric.

When do you think it might have been made ? I know it seen lots of action in Korea.

Thanks

BluesBear
July 27, 2006, 04:07 PM
I believe the J-frame (model 36) screw would work. But to make sure just give Numrich a telephone call. The people there are VERY helpful and they really know their stuff. They'll be able to tell you exactly what you need.

Old Fuff
July 28, 2006, 01:22 AM
At the present time I'm on a legal defense team, and going to court tomorrow (Friday) and won't have time too do any more research until the weekend.

Anyway sometime back S&W changed their thread sizes. Therefore I need to do some more checking. In the meantime, stand by... ;)

TBirdGuy
November 28, 2006, 04:13 PM
I recently acquired a .32 Smith & Wesson Hand Ejector revolver, S&W 32 Long CTG, serial number 207911, last pat. number sept 14, 09.
S&W logo on the right side, patents, etc on top of barrel.
Wondering how old it may be.
Thanks for any help.

TBirdGuy
November 28, 2006, 05:05 PM
I should add that the piece has the rounded butt and what appears to be wooden grips.
While I have not fired or dry fired it, the revolver seems to be DA.
A little pull on the trigger causes a movement of the hammer.
Probably not safe to fire it.

Old Fuff
November 28, 2006, 05:39 PM
Sounds like a Smith & Wesson .32 Hand Ejector/ Model of 1903; 5th Change. Serial numbers in the 5th Change run from 102,501 to approximately 263,000 and 160,499 revolvers were made between 1910 and 1917.

I would expect the stocks to be made of black hard-rubber, but S&W would provide wood ones on special order. The other more likely case is that they are later replacements, but take them off and see if they are serial numbered to the gun on the underside.

This is a conventional single-action/double-action hand ejector revolver. If it isn't working that way have it checked over by a gunsmith. If it is in solid shape it would be safe to fire with either .32 S&W or .32 S&W Long ammunition.

TBirdGuy
November 28, 2006, 07:05 PM
It appears to be working ok. Everything seems straight and nice and tight. It looks like it has been through 2 or 3 wars though. Bad shape appearance-wise. Needs cleaning up and oiling. What the heck, it was free.
Thanks.

Old Fuff
November 28, 2006, 09:46 PM
A nice blue / nickel job doesn't make it shoot any straighter... ;)

Clean it up and have some fun.

TBirdGuy
November 30, 2006, 04:38 PM
Hello Old Fuff,
The grips were black hard rubber. They were so nasty and had a fine coating of rust so they looked brown. No serial numbers on the backside of the grips. Apparently they had never been off the piece before. The metal underneath them was covered with rust. Cleaned the whole thing up and oiled it well, works much better now. There is a lot of bare metal, not shiny, showing on the exterior but there is a lot of what almost looks like black paint or something, badly done. Doesn't look like bluing, more like what Mossberg used to call parkerizing, only thicker, sometimes spotty, sometimes lumpy, but sometimes thiner and smooth. Almost looks like the repair stuff I have to fix scratches, etc. on my 590, only much harder. Normally bore cleaner would clean that off but not this stuff. Sure would look much better with out the mess on it. Could it be oxidation? There are some black oxidation spots on it but not like this thicker stuff. Any suggestions on how to clean it all up? :confused:

Old Fuff
November 30, 2006, 05:00 PM
The stocks weren't always numbered. I recently obtained a .38 Double Action / 5th Model, and neither the barrel or stocks were numbered, although both were obviously original to the gun.

With age, those black hard rubber stocks often turn brown. Sometimes soaking them in mineral oil will turn them black again. You can obtain identical modern replacements from: www.e-gunparts.com

I think what you are seeing on the revolvers interior may be a combination of black powder fouling and dried grease. It could also include some traces of Carbona or Charcoal Blue. Try scrubbing it off in a bath of carborator or brake cleaner, but be sure to oil everything down afterwards or it will rust. Also wear rubber gloves. Bore solvent is designed to desolve lead, copper and sometimes nickel. It generally won't touch the gunk found in the interior of 19th and early 20th century guns.

TBirdGuy
December 1, 2006, 01:24 AM
Stocks cleaned up ok in water with a light scrubing. Dried them off well and then oiled the threading, cleaned off the excess. Looks like new except for a small place that is chipped out on the bottom.
I thought about brake fluid for the metal. I had used it before to clean paint off of plastic without harming the plastic. Hadn't thought about brake cleaner. I will try that.
Thanks.

otteray
December 4, 2006, 11:34 PM
I have a Model of 1905, 3rd Change, 32WCF, serial No. 65xxx in very good (95+% original bluing, excellent rifling) that pre-dates the heat treated cylinder that can handle hotter loads.
Any good cast lead load data to work up to, and am I safe with the starting loads given in the manuals (Lyman, Lee.)

Suitable factory loads aren't too impressive in the accuracy department.

Old Fuff
December 5, 2006, 12:12 AM
Current .32-20 loads listed in the various handbooks are safe in good-quality revolvers (of which the Smith & Wesson is obviously one) unless stated otherwise. Avoid load intended to be used in the Tompson-Center Contender. You can also use any data for the .32 S&W Long, that will produce slightly less velocity and pressure in the .32-20 case. You will do your barrel a favor if you stick to cast or swaged lead bullets, but you can use any .312" bulet offered for the .32 S&W Long, .32 H&R Magnum .32 ACP, and of course .32-20.

diveblair
January 30, 2007, 11:34 AM
Hey gents,

I just stumbled on to your website when I googled the gun I inherited.

I have a .32 Smith & Wesson CTG revolver with a 3" barrel. It is nickle with a flat butt. On the butt is 7467...same thing on bottom of barrel. The cylinder swings out, and the serial number inside is 10921.

It says its pat'd Oct 24 1899. Aug 14 1900, Oct 8 1901 on top of barrel.

Here's the odd thing to me...it's a seven shot cylinder.

Any info or valuation would be great. Thanks.

Old Fuff
January 30, 2007, 11:59 AM
It's more odd then you know. :confused:

Smith & Wesson didn't make a 7-shot .32 revolver prior to World War Two. The serial number on the butt and barrel you posted would suggest a First Model .32 Hand Ejector made between 1898 and 1900. The number on the frame inside the yoke cut is an assembly number. If its a Smith & Wesson it should have 6 chambers. To go any further I think we need a picture.

diveblair
January 30, 2007, 12:26 PM
Thanks for the quick response.

I'll see if I can get my pics going.

Old Fuff
January 30, 2007, 03:34 PM
Well I have some good news and bad... I think. :confused:

As I said before, a .32 Hand Ejector with 7 chambers is unknown, but I note that in your picture there are indeed 7 holes in the cylinder :what:

I also noticed that the frame has a raised area by the rear sight. :cool:

Now Smith & Wesson did make a little revolver with a frame like that, and the cylinder did have 7 chambers, just like your picture. But it was a .22 Long (not Long Rifle). :what:

It was built on Smith & Wesson little known "M" frame, there were 3 models, and it was commonly called the "LadySmith."

All first Model, and most Second Model revolvers had the following patent dates stamped on top of the barrel:

Oct. 24, 1899 August 14, 1900 Oct 8, 1901

Barrel Lengths were 3 and 3 1/2 inches

Left side of the barrel is marked * 22 Smith & Wesson ctg.*

The Second Model had a rounded butt with a flat bottom. The stocks were usually Black Hard-Rubber. Finish was blue or nickel plate. They were made between 1906 to 1910 in a serial number range running from 4,576 to 13,950.
so your gun was probably made in 1906 or '07.

Oh, and in similar shape there are worth a lot more then a .32 Hand Ejector.

I hope you won't be too disapointed... :D

diveblair
January 30, 2007, 03:51 PM
Yup. I guess that could be a 22. But it sure looks more like a 32 on the barrel. I could not get a decent pic of the numbers to show you. A lot of good info though...thanks!

My father had a lot of guns in his day. He got rid of all of them except for this one. I never even knew about it until after he died. It's in need of a good cleaning, and some TLC.

Any idea of the worth?

Thanks.

Old Fuff
January 30, 2007, 06:18 PM
The original LadySmith revolvers have always been a collector's pet, with values to match. The latest information I have is in the recently released 3rd edition of Standard Catalog of Smith & Wesson.

They show the following for a 2nd. Model:

As New: $2,500
Exc: 1,200
Fine: 850
Very Good: 550
Good: 400
Fair: 250
Poor: 125

I can't tell much about the overall condition of your revolver the the picture you posted. but I think from what I can see it would rate somewhere in the good to very good range.

Shrike6
February 1, 2007, 09:07 AM
OK, my turn. I'm new here and signed up because I found an old revolver my uncle gave to my mom years ago. It looks like some others mentioned here before. Rear gutter sights, front leaf, 6 shot. Marked .32 long ctg on barrel.
On the bottom of the butt the serial # is 245204 with a star after the number.
Under the barrel, on the flat space, there is a square mark. On the frame side of the hinge, 48952. On the cylinder side of the hinge 89507.
On the back of the cylinder, 413102. On top of the barrell are the patent dates, Oct.8,1901, Dec.17,1901,Feb.6,1906,Sept.14,1907,Dec.29,1914.
I didn't measure the barrel, but it looks like 3.5-4".
Trigger pull feels pretty heavy, but it breaks clean. Very good condition overall with walnut grips, round bottom. It's not perfectly clean yet, but the rifeling looks somewhat worn.
Question: what model and vintage? Is this worth trying to clean up and shoot? I may give it to my wife if the recoil isn't too bad, after having the trigger worked on.
Thanks for all the great info I've gotten here so far!

Old Fuff
February 1, 2007, 09:31 PM
You apparently have a Smith & Wesson .32 Hand Ejector Model of 1903, 5th chg. These were made between 1910 and 1917 within a serial number range running from 102,501 to 263,000. Barrel lengths were 3 1/4", 4 1/4" or 6" measured from the cylinder face to the end of the muzzle.

The star indicates factory refinishing or other work. The number on the butt (245,2xx), the back of the cylinder, and the bottom flat on the barrel above the ejector rod should match. It would appear that the cylinder, if numbered 413,102 is from an earlier gun, and the star on the butt might indicate that it was fitted to your present gun at the S&W factory, although this would be unsusal. Walnut grips would also be unusual if factory original, because black hard rubber molded ones were standard.

The number on the hinge (yoke) and frame should match, where in this case they are different. If everything fits, and the revolver locks up tight with no end shake this probably doesn't matter. Value is hard to say, but I doubt that it would exceed $275.00 from the description.

I would clean it up, it uses .32 S&W Long cartridges and the recoil is mild. Experience tells me that if your wife shoots it she will likely file a claim on it.

As for trigger pull work. it may do better after the lockwork is cleaned up, but be careful - parts such as mainsprings, hammers and triggers are next to impossible to find, and very expensive when you do.

Shrike6
February 1, 2007, 10:34 PM
Thanks for your detailed info!
Now to find a gunsmith to clean it up and look it over.

draksia
March 4, 2007, 04:51 PM
I was wondering if you guys could help me out.

I inheritted a S&W revoler from my grandfather.

It says 32-20 GTC on the barrel
patten dates are oct.08.1 dec.17.01 feb.6.06 sept.14.09 dec.29.14

The serial is 124xxx

I am just looking for some more info.

Thanks

captain2105
March 4, 2007, 06:14 PM
Hey fellas,

What a great source of information!

I ran across an old S&W .32 while cleaning out my father-in-laws home. From reading this post, I believe it is a .32 hand-ejector model of 1903 fifth change.

It has 32 long ctg on the LH of the barrel, pat of mar 27, 94;Aug 4, 96; Dec 22, 96;Oct 8, 01; Dec 17, 01; Feb 5, 06; and Sept 14, 09 on the top of the barrel, has the S&W emblem on the RH frame and the number 222548 on the bottom of the grip and back of cyl. It is a 6 shot cyl and a 3 1/4" barrel.

Any estimate on what year it may have been produced?

It has oversized Pachmayr grips. I tried the wood grips off my newer (1980's) S&W J-frame .38, they fit, but are about 1/4" too long. What grips will fit?

Any indication on what it may be worth? What affect will non-OE grips make?

It's finish is in pretty poor condition with approx 30-40% of the area covered in light to med rust. What effect would it have on value to clean and reblue?

Thank you,
Keith

Old Fuff
March 4, 2007, 06:57 PM
captain2105:

Excellent dscription...!

You are right, you do have a model 1903 hand ejector, 5th change. The serial number (222,5xx) indicates it was made sometime around 1914 To get it closer you'll have to pay S&W to research their records. The reasonable fee is $30.00 because give the age of the revolver a lot of work can be involved. Unfortunately the condition substantially reduces the value, although if the bore and chambers are not rusted, and it is in good mechanical condition that would help. I'll make an estimate of between $175.00 to $200.00.

The original stocks were black hard rubber, and finding an original set that aren't damaged is difficult and usually expensive. Brownells (www.brownells.com) carry modern plastic reproductions. An easier way is to find a set of modern J-frame stocks that cover the lower part of the frame, as they are about 1/8" longer then the I-frame that you have. Regular J-frame stocks will fit if they are shortened.

A professional refinishing job would likely run around $100.00 to $175.00 and you want someone who knows what they are doing because a poor polishing job would ruin the gun. If I had it I wouldn't consider getting it reblued until I had tried rubbing it out with 0000 steel wool dipped in something like CLP. Elbow grease can remove a lot of rust without damaging the original finish...

Old Fuff
March 4, 2007, 07:28 PM
draksia:

Be sure you are listing the number on the butt, and not one on the frame behind the yoke. If the number is on the butt you have a .32-20 Hand Ejector, Model of 1905, 4th Change. The 4th. Change revolvers were made between 1914 and 1940, with production ending at No. 144,684. I estimate your revolver dates from the middle/latter 1930's, and was built on S&W's K-frame.

The 1905 Hand Ejectors were also known as the Military & Police model, that in 1957 became the Model 10, but chambering in .32-20 was not resumed after World War Two.

captain2105
March 4, 2007, 08:40 PM
Old fuff,

Thank you for the reply.

I'll try buffing it out, most does not appear to be too deep.

I also read on this post that some of the older barrels will not tolerate copper jacketed bullets. Does that apply to this vintage?

Thanks,
Keith

Old Fuff
March 4, 2007, 09:15 PM
I also read on this post that some of the older barrels will not tolerate copper jacketed bullets. Does that apply to this vintage?

No, but the .32 S&W Long cartridge that it's chambered to use is only available with lead bullets, and that's been the case since the 19th century. :confused:

Perhaps someone was thinking of the .32 ACP that is usually loaded with full-jacketed bullet, or the .32 H&R Magnum that does come with jacketed bullets, but won't fit in your revolver. Last but not least, there is the .32-20 (.32WCF) but it also won't fit in your gun.

While they won't hurt the barrel, I would stick to lead bullets. I think the only way to do otherwise would be to load your own, or perhaps buy ammunition from a speciality manufacturer.

scbair
March 5, 2007, 09:12 AM
Old Fuff, as far as "major" manufacturers of ammo, you're probably correct (OK, you ARE correct, to the best of my knowledge). However, Georgia Arms does produce & sell some JHP .32 S&W Long ammo (I have some with 100 grainers, and some that, as I recall, use the 85 gr. JHP).

I really doubt any of it is loaded to a velocity that will produce expansion; it was just cheaper than Remington factory loads for my old Model 30 . . .

Old Fuff
March 5, 2007, 09:46 AM
I know.... :)

I think the only way to do otherwise would be to load your own, or perhaps buy ammunition from a speciality manufacturer.

I just didn't direct captain2105 in that direction.... ;)

CraigHartung
March 15, 2007, 04:41 PM
I would like to join in discussion as I have a

Left side of barrel: < 32 Winchester OTG >
Top of barrel: Smith & Wesson Springfield Mass US PAT'D March 27, 1894 May 21, 1896 August 4, 1896 December 22, 1898 December 1, 1901 February 6, 1906 September 14, 1909
Serial number under swing out cylinder axle and butt 51265
Blue and 6” barrel
I am assuming this is a 1903 3rd change, a 32 - 20, and can use 32 -20 and 32 long lead ammunition. Operation is excelent, appearence condition is good?

Any help?

Old Fuff
March 15, 2007, 07:10 PM
CraigHartung:

We have some problems here. :what:

If the barrel is marked, "32 Winchester CTG" it was made on Smith & Wesson's K-frame platform (also known as the Military & Police model).

The serial number should be marked on the: (1) butt, (2) back of the cylinder, and (3) a flat on the bottom of the barrel. above the ejector rod. The number on the frame behind the axle (called the "yoke" at S&W) is an assembly number, and I'd expect it would be different then the serial number.

If the serial number is 51,265, the revolver would be a .32-20 Hand Ejector Model of 1905; 3rd. Change. The 3rd. Change series were serial numbered between 45,201 to 65,700, and made from 1909 to 1915.

The .32-20 (.32 WCF) and .32 S&W Long are different cartridges, and not interchangeable - the .32-20 being the more powerful of the two.

Lead bulleted ammunition should be O.K., and I would particularly recommend .32-20 "cowboy loads" that are downloaded for the Cowboy Action Shooting game. A number of manufacturers make these and your dealer should have no problems ordering some.

Because of the time frame within when it was made, you have an exceptionally fine revolver. The internal workmanship is like a Swiss watch.

CraigHartung
March 16, 2007, 11:07 AM
Thank you. Some clarifications: The number on the yoke and butt are both 51265 the same. I can not find a number on the cylinder.

There must be a stamping mistake on the barrel as the naked eye and under a magnifying glass it is "OTG"?

CraigHartung
March 16, 2007, 11:19 AM
Sorry third number on cylinder and it is 51263 as are the other two numbers. Used a magnifying glass.

Old Fuff
March 16, 2007, 11:39 AM
Used a magnifying glass.

That is often necessary... :D

Having the assembly number match the serial number is unusual, because the assembly number was normally stamped on the yoke and frame before the serial number. But when dealing with Smith & Wesson's, never say never... :scrutiny:

Occasionally a stamp was broken, and if CTG came out OTG they wouldn't scrap otherwise good barrels for that reason, but again... it's unusual.

logden5751
March 16, 2007, 01:22 PM
I just bought one of these guns yeterday.Im trying to figure out how old it is.And what its worth. Its looks like nickle plate 3 1/2 in barrel .Hammerless, The handle looks like pearle and feels like plastic, it has an eagle and says framzite.Barrel says Smith & Wesson Springfield USA pat'd March 27 1894 August, 4 1896 December 17 1901 Febuary,6 1906.Left side of barrel says 32 long ctg and has the trade mark.Serial #s 835xx are all the same on the Butt,bottom of barrel and on the cylinder.It is in real good shape.I have a pic but didnt know how to attach it. Any help would be greatly appreate.

CraigHartung
March 16, 2007, 03:24 PM
Really appreciate your expert information, assesment, and advise. The revolver is from my Grandfather 1875-1949 through his son 1905 near death. Grandfather Ira Lee Winters, Nevada cattle rancher, State Assembyman and Senator, etc. Gun is very tight so it has been maintained properly. Have located proper ammunition.

Old Fuff
March 16, 2007, 04:18 PM
Really? How interesting…

Given the circumstances I strongly suggest that you contact Smith & Wesson’s historian, Roy G. Jinks. If you will provide him a full description of the gun, along with an ordinary snapshot to help confirm identification, and enclose a check made out to S&W in the amount of $30.00, he will “letter” the gun.

This means that he will research back through Smith & Wesson’s old shipping records, and then send you an official letter – containing a short history of the model, and then the specifics concerning your gun, with a full description of the gun as represented in the records, and the date and to what dealer or distributor it was originally shipped.

This will document the gun, as it was known at the factory. Be sure to tell Mr. Jinks the background, as you know it. He will be interested.

Go to: www.smith-wesson.com and then customer service.

CraigHartung
March 20, 2007, 11:49 PM
Dear Old Fuff: Thanks for your guidance and good advise. I sent in the authentication documents and photo in to S & W yesterday.

CraigHartung
May 30, 2007, 01:14 PM
Dear Old Fuff:

I received my Smith & Wesson letter from Roy Jinks, as you had suggested I request. They corroborated your information on serial number 51263 as a Hand Ejector Model of 1905 Third Change. Shipped 01.19.1912 to Hibbard Spence Bartlett & Co., Chicago IL. with a 6 inch barrel, blue finish, and checkered walnut gold medallion grips. Thank you again for your advise.

Old Fuff
May 30, 2007, 07:45 PM
Hibbard Spence Bartlett & Co., Chicago IL. were a Smith & Wesson distributor that covered the mid-west and western states at the time. It would seem that the pieces fit.

Grayrock
June 15, 2007, 12:39 AM
I'll chime in for Old Fuff's assistance. This just came into my possession. It says 32 Winchester CTG on the barrel and has no under lug. The # on the frame (2 places when you open the cylinder ) does not match the one on the butt. Which one would you go by?

Old Fuff
June 15, 2007, 01:13 AM
The serial number is on the bottom of the butt, and it will be a low number. The number on the frame behind the yoke, and on the yoke, is an assembly number - put there to insure the right parts got back together before the frame was serial numbered. You may also find the serial number on the back face of the cylinder and on the inside on one of the two hard-rubber stocks.

The old girl has seen better days, but you have one of the very first K-frame revolvers. It is a .32-20 Hand Ejector, 1st. Model - made sometime between 1899 and 1902, within a serial number range running from 1 to 5,311.

The .32-20 cartridge, also known as the .32 WCF was originally introduced by Winchester for use in their models 1873 and 1892 rifles and carbines. The round became particularly popular around the turn of the 20th century, and Smith & Wesson took advantage of this by offering a revolver that could shoot the same cartridge. The .32-20 option remained in their catalog up until 1940, at which time some 144,684 had been made.

Grayrock
June 15, 2007, 01:24 AM
Man - you are fast. Serial # is 5175. Will that narrow down a "born on" date? Also, is there a precise model name or number associated with it? 32 Winchester is a .32-20? What type ammo do I look for? What is the purpose of the knurled screw at end of ejector? It is not long enough to poke out spent cases. Is there a source for a schematic for this gun

Grayrock
June 15, 2007, 01:35 AM
Is this it?

http://www.midwayusa.com/mediasvr.dll/highresimage?saleitemid=490856

Old Fuff
June 15, 2007, 11:59 AM
The only way to get an exact date is to send a copy of the photographs you posted, a full description (which you can do now) and a $30.00 check made out to S&W, to the factory. Thereafter their in-house historian, Roy G. Jinks will go through the old records until he finds it and then send you all of the information they have in an official S&W letter. The data should include the date it was shipped from the factory, and to what distributor or dealer. Additional information on factory letters will be found at (www.smith-wesson.com).

At the time Smith & Wesson numbered frames, and then built them into guns later - sometime years later. However given the popularity of the model I suspect it was shipped fairly quickly. The serial number would suggest that it was was one of the last in the original production run, and made in 1902.

The pictured ammunition is correct for the gun, but keep in mind that it is around 105 years old! Also they didn't heat treat cylinders at the time.

The knob on the end of the extractor rod has to be unscrewed before the cylinder assembly can be removed from the yoke for cleaning or whatever.

Finding a schematic for that prticular gun would be difficult, and the lockwork is different in later versions made after 1902. However if there is such a thing Roy Jinks at Smith & Wesson will know. I would ask him.

Model name: .32-20 Hand Ejector, 1st. Model. It was sometimes called the .32 Military & Police Model.

Richard Simmons
June 16, 2007, 07:36 AM
Just saw this thread which is perfect since I recently ran across an auction ad for a Model 30, blue, 4" with box, literature and accessories. Haven't seen it in person but it looks to have diamond magnas so it should be 68 or earlier. From the photo I've seen it could be NIB or LNIB. What's a fair/going rate for one of these and where could a man get some decently priced ammo? TIA

Old Fuff
June 16, 2007, 10:31 AM
According to Jim Supica, "The man" when it comes to Smith & Wesson values, and a member of The High Road, a Model 30 NIB can be worth upwards toward $375.00. That number comes from his recent book, Standard Catalog of Smith & Wesson, 3rd. Edition. However some went for more then that at his recent auction on (www.armsbid.com). Visit the site and you can review the auction and realized prices.

Richard Simmons
June 16, 2007, 10:40 PM
Thank you.

dtown240
June 17, 2007, 03:16 AM
....

copes1
August 14, 2007, 12:26 PM
Hi Folks,

I'm new here, drawn in by the discussion of other peoples 32 LONG CTGs. I recently received my late father in law's Smith & Wesson 32 LONG CTG. I am trying to determine if it is worth hanging on to for my wife. I don't like the gun myself. I find it has poor balance in my hand, and the handgrip feels like a miniature in my hand. I have a hard time grasping the short rounded bottom handle. I am attaching 2 photos of the gun, one from each side. They aren't very good, but maybe they give you some idea of the shape.

On the butt of the gun is stamped - 543153
Same number on flat under barrel.
Same number on cylinder.

On the right side just above and in front of the trigger guard it says:
Made in U.S.A.
MARCAS REGISTRADAS
SMITH & WESSON
SPRINGFIELD, MASS

On the right side of the barrel it simply says:
32 LONG CTG

On the left side above and behind the trigger guard is the S&W stamp.

On the left side of the barrel it says:
SMITH & WESSON

On the top of the barrel it says:
SMITH & WESSON SPRINGFIELD MASS. USA
PATENTED FEB.6.06.SEPT.14 09,DEC.=9.14 (I'm not sure about that equal sign... it looks more like a double ~ than an equal sign)

The barrel is 4 1/4".

I can't see any other markings on it. It is in very good shape with only minor scratches. Any idea of how old it is and the value would be much appreciated.

Thanks,
Charles

Old Fuff
August 14, 2007, 01:45 PM
You have a very early S&W 1903 .32 Hand Ejector (Postwar) - Pre model 30.

It was introduced in 1903 at serial #1, and production was suspended in 1942 at serial number 536,684. Production resumed in 1946 or '48 at serial number 536,685 using previoously made prewar parts.

Most of these revolvers came with black, hard rubber stocks. If the walnut stocks on your revolver are original to it the serial number will be marked on one panel on the inside. In such a case it would slightly increase the value, which on the collector's market in around $400.00, perhaps slightly more.

Concerning the handle. Stocks made for the current model 36, which are offered by S&W as well as many aftermarket companies and surplus dealers, can be fitted to your revolver to give it more "holding area."

Should you, or you wife, decide to keep the piece and shoot it you will find the recoil to be mild, and its accuracy to be exceptional.

copes1
August 14, 2007, 02:16 PM
Thank you for the quick response. I checked and the number stamped inside the stock matches the serial number on the butt.

Also, thanks for the info on the stocks. With the current stocks it is an uncomfortable feel for me, but I think it might fit in my wife's hands much better. My pinky finger curls underneath the stock when I hold it and my fingers curl all the way around the stock and almost touch my palm. Maybe I just have big hands. With a mild recoil, good accuracy, and a new set of stocks, I just might want to keep it.

I'm assuming cartridges are readily available for this gun, right? Will any 32 caliber shells work, or should I be looking for something special? The "long" on the end of 32 concerns me. Thanks again for your expert guidance.

Old Fuff
August 14, 2007, 02:37 PM
CDNN (www.cdnnsports.com) have checkered walnut stocks that convert the round-butt to a larger (but not too large) square butt. Some fitting may be necessary, but no alterations to the revolver. The stocks are relatively inexpensive, but notice a flat $9.99 handling and shipping fee. As this covers your whole order you may want too do some shopping around. S&W has much the same, but for more money.

The revolver is chambered to use the .32 S&W Long cartridge, and it will shoot the shorter .32 S&W. Both are available, but often not stocked by many dealers. Bullets (.312") are available and it's an easy round to reload. Prior to World War Two the little gun was considered acceptable by many police departments for concealed carry. It was also a favored bedside table gun.

If you use this forumn's search feature you will find a considerable number of past threads on both the revolver and .32 S&W Long Ammunition. Around here the little gun has a following...

copes1
August 14, 2007, 10:11 PM
I think I'm going to order those checkered walnut stocks from CDNN. Hopefully they will fit without too much alteration required.

This revolver was owned by my father in law, who purchased it in 1950. He was stationed at Barksdale AFB in Shreveport, LA and was being tranfered to Alaska. His wife wasn't going to go with him so he bought it for her for protection while he was away. I think it has only been fired maybe 4 or 5 times. He was in non-commissioned officer in the Air Force until he retired in the late 60s. We'll keep it for nostalgia even if not for use.

Thanks again for all your help.

Old Fuff
August 14, 2007, 10:35 PM
I don't think you'll find much fitting is necessary. The J-frame handle is identical to the I-frame (on which your revolver is built) except it is about 1/8" longer. You may have to relocate a pin hole at the bottom of the grip panels but not much else. The gap doesn't show because wood covers it - the stocks being oversized and all.

Since wood covers about half of the backstrap, and all of the butt and forestrap, any inletting you do on the inside doesn't have to be perfect because it won't show.

copes1
August 14, 2007, 10:53 PM
I meant to mention in my last post that my mother in law said they paid $50 for it in 1950 in Shreveport, LA. After thinking about it for a minute I realized this gun was purchased the year I was born. In fact, it is likely a bit older than me. You said they started back production in '46 or '48 with serial # 536,685. There are only 6,473 between that startup and this gun's Serial # 543,158. I don't know how many they made per year, but it seems likely to me that this was probably made very close to the startup. Since this one was purchased in 1950, I'm thinking the 1948 startup is probably the better date. Of course it could have sat around for a few years before being purchased.

Now that I've learned a bit more about the gun I'm looking forward to getting some ammo and trying it out.

Old Fuff
August 15, 2007, 08:14 AM
Given the gun's history you might want to get it "lettered." To do so you send the following to Smith & Wesson:

1. A copy of at least one picture that you posted here. The purpose is to help confirm identification.

2. A copy of your first post, that contains an excellent description.

3. A check in the amount of $30.00, made out to Smith & Wesson.

In exchange their in-house historian, Mr. Roy G. Jinks, will research and examine the old records (which are not computerized - a search isn't always easy) and find where your revolver was logged. A official letter from S&W will follow, that contains a short overview of the model, and then specific information about your gun, usually including but not limited to:

1. The original caliber, barrel length, finish and type of stocks.

2. The date it was shipped, and to what distributor or dealer.

3. Any special features or circumstances that might be listed in their records.

Additional information will be found at: www.smith-wesson.com

Expect at least 8 to 10 weeks for a reply, as they are getting a lot of requests for this service.

Early on their production was limited, because they were for the most part using pre-war parts. However they did introduce a new and improved hammer block that was developed during the war, and made the gun safer to carry. If you cock the hammer you may notice a square notch in the hammer face, just under the firing pin. That was for the additional safety. I also suspect that the 1948 date is correct, and a letter from Mr. Jinks would confirm this.

luckywdw
September 24, 2007, 11:20 PM
Greetings all, need help with garage find pistol at father-in-laws. Left side of barrel says Smith & Wesson, right side says 32 S&W CTG, top of barrel says Smith & Wesson Springfield MASS U.S.A. No patent dates anywhere. Right side of frame above trigger MADE IN U.S.A. Right side frame above pistol grip is the S&W trade mark logo. Serial number on bottom of butt and on back of cylinder 231181, no other numbers or markings, pistol is blued with a small rounded butt, grips are white mother of pearl, this is a five shot cylinder hammerless double action, any help ??? Thanks !!

Old Fuff
September 26, 2007, 05:13 PM
luckywdw:

You have an interesting revolver...

It is a Smith & Wesson .32 Safety Hammerless (New Departure) 3rd. Model

It was introduced in 1888 and continued in production until 1937. The 3rd. Model was the last, being made from 1900 to 1937, within a serial number range running from 170,000 to 242,981. I suspect your gun was made during the late 1920’s or early 30’s.

They no longer stamped the patent dates on the rib. Some, but not all were marked “Smith & Wesson, Springfield, Mass, U.S.A.” After May 1922 they added the “Made in U.S.A.” stamp on the right side of the frame. Shortly thereafter they also revised the design of the firing pin to prevent breakage.

Standard barrel lengths were 2” (scarce) 3 and 3 ½ inches, although lengths up to 6 inches are known.

The pearl stocks may be original, or aftermarket ones. Genuine S&W pearl grips had a trademark medallion inset at the top. Standard stocks were black hard-rubber, and any pearl stocks add to the value of the piece, but factory pearl is more substantial.

You may have noticed a bar or lever on the back of the handle. It’s a grip safety, and an exclusive Smith & Wesson feature. They claimed that it made the gun absolutely safe to carry in a pocket or purse, and could even prevent a small (very small) child from firing it because they didn’t have the hand span or strength to both depress the safety and pull the double-action trigger.

Given its period of manufacture it’s safe to shoot with current ammunition, which is expensive, but available. Smith & Wesson correctly claimed that it was much superior to a .25 caliber automatic (such as Colt made) and functionally equal to the .32 ACP.

One hint: Don't try to take it apart unless absolutely necessary. To remove the cylinder, open the barrel and while holding the latch forward and up, pull up on the cylinder while turning it counter-clockwise.

gateway_sc
October 13, 2007, 12:28 AM
I just inherited S&W .32 long revolver and after reading this thread I will be getting it lettered, but I wanted to share what I have. I believe the gun was my great-grandfather's and he probably got it shortly after coming to America. I will try to post pictures after I get them off the camera, but here are the details:

SN: 49692 on 2 places (I forgot to check the cylinder, but I'm confident it's the same)
PAT'D: April 9, 1889; March ??, 1894; Aug. 4, 1896; Dec. 22, 1896; Oct. 8, 1901; Dec. 17, 1901; Sept. 2, 1902; July 7, 1903

3 1/4" barrel

I have the leather holder with a Moose's head on it, with the word "Moose" on the left and "Brand" on the right of the head. I also have an old box of ammo, but I keep forgetting to check for a date.

In my limited knowledge of guns, this gun seems to be in very nice condition.

Old Fuff
October 13, 2007, 08:30 AM
Neat story... :)

Your Great-Grandpa had a Smith & Wesson .32 Hand Ejector Model of 1903 - 1st. Change. The 1st Change revolvers were made between 1904 and 1906, within a serial number range running from 19,426 to 51,126. It was obviously popular since they made 31,700 of them over a three year period. Serial number 49,692 was probably made in 1906, although it could have been assembled and/or shipped a bit later.

At the time, standard barrel lengths were 3 1/4, 4 1/4 and 6 inches. Buyers had a choice between blued or nickel plated finishes. On most the stocks were made of molded hard rubber and individually fitted to, and serial numbered to the gun. Be very careful of them, as age has made them brittle and subject to chipping and cracking.

And do get it lettered by Roy Jinks at Smith & Wesson. While we can give you a general overview, he will be able to provide the exact details as they are noted in the original shipping records. He would also be interested in the gun's history as you know it. ;)

gateway_sc
October 13, 2007, 09:45 AM
Thanks for the quick reply.

I forgot to mention that it has the blued finish.

gateway_sc
October 15, 2007, 12:09 AM
Here's a couple of pictures:

http://gateway.sc.googlepages.com/100_2293.JPG/100_2293-large;init:.jpg

http://gateway.sc.googlepages.com/100_2297.JPG/100_2297-large;init:.jpg

code404
December 15, 2007, 01:38 PM
Hello to all, am new in this forum and sorry for my bad English, im not a English native....
Have a .32 Smith & Wesson CTG revolver with a 6" barrel
The serial number inside is 305467
Any estimate on what year it may have been produced?
Am just looking for some more info.
http://www.pcboxaudio.com/foro/sw321.jpg<br>
http://www.pcboxaudio.com/foro/sw321-2.jpg<br>
http://www.pcboxaudio.com/foro/sw321-3.jpg<br>
Tia !!

Old Fuff
December 15, 2007, 02:00 PM
Welcome to The High Road. :)

You have a Smith & Wesson .32 Hand Ejector, 3rd. Model. These were made between 1917 and 1942, within a serial number range of 263,001 to 536,684. While I cannot date your revolver to the exact year, I suspect it was made during the early 1920's.

Standard barrel lengths were 3 1/4, 4 1/4 and 6 inches. The stocks were usually black, hard rubber - but in this case we see oversized checkered walnut stocks of the kind usually offered on target models, such as the .22.32 Target. They may have come on the gun, in which case they will have the revolver's serial number marked on the inside, or they may be later replacements.

code404
December 15, 2007, 03:06 PM
Thankz, im very appreciate your help...

m2karateman
December 21, 2007, 12:33 PM
Hi there. New to this forum, first time post. Great website.

My question is regarding my grandfathers gun, which I inherited some years ago. It is a Smith and Wesson, .32 Long CTG, 4 1/4" barrel, black plastic handgrips. Serial number is 174007, stamped on the bottom of the handle, underside of the barrel where the ejector pin is, and on the load side of the cylinder. There is also a four digit number (4076) stamped in two spots, the swing arm for the cylinder to the frame, and on the frame at the inside of where the swing arm stops when the cylinder is loaded into the frame. On the top side of the barrel read the patents:
Smith & Wesson Springfield, Mass. U.S.A.
Pat'd March 27 '94, Aug. 4 '96, Dec. 22 '96,
Oct. 8 '01, Dec. 17 '01, Feb. 6 '06, Sept. 14 '09

The gun seems to be in good working condition, though the finish is wearing off in some places. Attached is a picture.

Any history you could give is appreciated. What loads does this gun take? I've talked to some who've told me different things. I am under the impression it takes .32 S&W loads, but prefer your expert opinion. I am assuming the date of manufacture to be sometime between 1911 and 1917 based on some of the previous posts in this thread and the serial number of this particular piece.

Thanks.

Old Fuff
December 21, 2007, 06:01 PM
Welcome Aboard... :)

With such a complete description and picture we can't go wrong. :cool:

You have a Smith & Wesson .32 Hand Ejector Model of 1903, 5th Change.

5th Change revolvers were made between 1910 and 1917, within a serial number range of 102,501 to 263,000. I estimate your grandfather's gun was made around 1912. Standard finishes were full blue or nickel plate. The stocks are made of molded hard rubber rather then plastic, and if the are original to the gun you'll find the revolver's serial number scribed on the inside of one panel. Be careful, as they become brittle with age. The number 4076 is an assembly number, used to make sure fitted parts got back into the right gun.

It is chambered to use either .32 S&W or .32 S&W Long cartridges. The "long" is the better choice by far. If it is in good mechanical shape there is no reason you couldn't shoot it, and you'll likely find that it's exceptionally accurate.

T-Rex
December 29, 2007, 11:46 AM
I'm new to this forum so please forgive any faux pas.

Looking through the forum, I was impressed enough to join - I only belong to 3 forums and I've been an internet user for about 13 years.

I just "inherited" a pistol I know little about. It belonged to my grandfather but when my mother gave it to me a couple days ago, she didn't know any of it's history - so I need some help.

Anyway, here's the info on the pistol:
On the left side of the 3-1/4" barrel, it says "32 LONG CTG"

On the top of the barrel the patent info says:
"SMITH & WESSON SPRINGFIELD MASS. U.S.A.
PAT'D APRIL 9. 89. MARCH 27. 94. MAY 21. 95.
AUG. 4.1896. DEC 22.1896. OCT.4.1898
OCT.8.1901. DEC.17.1901. SEPT.2.1902."

On the bottom of the barrel, the serial number reads: "B 17697"

On the bottom of the grip, the serial number reads: "17697"

Inside the cylinder hinge, on the frame is the number: "16811" (That one confuses me. I thought it would be the same since it appears to be the same piece of metal as the butt with the other number.)

It has a round butt with black plastic S&W grips.

The plate on the right side has 4 screws and the S&W logo stamped on it.

There were six round nosed lead cartridges with it. They are apparently factory loads and on the bottom they read: "WRA 32 S&W LONG"

I'm going to try to upload a few photos (unfortunately they aren't all that good). You can see that while it wasn't mistreated, it also wasn't kept in "new" condition. It is a blue finish.

Any info would be greatly appreciated!

Old Fuff
December 29, 2007, 02:37 PM
Welcome to The High Road. I hope we can live up to your expectations. :)

You have posted an excellent description, which will make identification easy.

Your Grandfather's revolver is a Smith & Wesson .32 Hand Ejector, Model of 1903. This particular version was the first of its kind, and only made for two years (1903 -1904) in a serial number range running from 1 to 19,425. Additional versions continued on until 1942 when it was discontinued because of World War Two. Production was resumed after the war, and in various forms the revolver continued in production until 1976.

Your revolver has a pinned front sight blade, which apparently was only used on these 1903-1904 revolvers. Thereafter the sight blade was forged as part of the barrel. It may also have hardened steel inserts next to the cylinder stop notches in the cylinder to prevent the notches from being battered. If so, it was an exclusive S&W feature, and the inserts are so precisely fitted that it will take a very strong magnifying glass to see them. The hammer and trigger have chaffing bushings to prevent the casehardened finish from being rubbed. All of this represents a level of craftsmanship that was never equaled by any of the company’s competitors, nor in later S&W revolvers. In terms of workmanship, no revolver made today even comes close.

Those stocks are not plastic, but black hard-rubber. Be careful as they are fragile, but if you remove them you will find the serial number scribed on one panel because they were individually fitted to that particular frame.

The 16811 is an assembly number, unrelated to the serial number. You will find it stamped on the frame and yoke (the part the cylinder swings out on) and insures that these parts will get back together after they are blued or plated.

Regarding the cartridges, "WRA" stands for the Winchester Repeating Arms Co. that made them.

Given that this revolver has been passed down through the family, and hopefully will continue on, I suggest that you write the Smith & Wesson factory and obtain a historical letter. In exchange for a very reasonable search fee of $30.00 their in-house historian Roy G. Jinks will go back through the old records until he finds your gun. They you will receive a formal letter describing the general history of the model, followed by exact details about your revolver, as they are listed in the records. This usually includes the exact date it was shipped, and to what distributor or dealer. Additional information will be found at: (www.smith-wesson.com).

T-Rex
December 29, 2007, 08:10 PM
Thanks Old Fuff!
I really appreciate the information and the fast response!

After I got your response, I called my mother to ask if she knew anything more about this gun. As far as the history goes, she only knows that her father bought it and that her mother kept in the nightstand for years as she was growing up. There were two amusing stories I thought you'd enjoy...

The gun was fired twice that my mother knows of - both times with a purpose. They lived in the vicinity of Van Buren, Arkansas just out of Ft. Smith and at the turn of the century it could on occasion be a rough place.

The first time she remembers the pistol being fired, my grandmother fired it into the air in the middle of the night because something was messing with the chickens. Whatever it was apparently took off and never bothered the chickens again.

The second time it was fired, the results were similar, but the circumstances were quite different. It seems that my grandfather was again out of town with the railroad when some of the local boys decided to - as my mother put it - "tic-tac" one of the window screens on the house. (Apparently, this was done by attaching a cord to the screen, stretching it tight and running something up and down the cord -causing a horrific noise and sounding like someone was breaking in.) My grandmother's adopted brother had opted not to participate in this activity and warned her they were planning it. Sure enough, they came in the middle of the night and she went to a nearby window, opened it and fired into the air. The boys took off, leaving all their paraphernalia and hiding behind a very large cedar tree nearby for quite some time until they felt it was safe to escape. By then, everyone in the house had been back asleep for a long time! The boys never bothered them or the house again.

Three comments - I did find the other assembly number on the yoke. (It's amazing how easy it is to see something like that when you know where to look!) Also I found the serial number on the back of the cylinder which I noticed you mentioned in another reply. I don't plan on removing the grips since they are fragile - I'll leave that to a gunsmith when I get it cleaned up.

Three questions:
First - where would I look to find the hardened steel inserts by the cylinder stop notches? Are those the notches on the outside of the cylinder? I do see a rectangular inserts there above the rectangular indents. (I have 4x, 8x, and 10x jeweler's loupes I use for things like that.)

Second - any idea how old that ammunition is? I think all the Winchester ammo I've seen has WIN on it, not WRA

Third - I don't really plan on doing this because I think it is more of an historical piece than a service piece, but do you think it would be safe to shoot modern ammunition in it?

Also, I am going to send off to S&W for the letter - everyone in the family thinks that is a great idea! Thanks again for all the information.

Old Fuff
December 30, 2007, 12:40 AM
The attached illustration was part of Smith & Wesson’s patent for the insert next to the cylinder stop notch. You can see from the drawing how it was done, and now that you know what to look for you should be able to find them if they are there. But it will take a high-powered glass, as they are too well fitted to see with the naked eye. They are just a small example of the crude work that was done with primitive machinery back then… :rolleyes:

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=70026&stc=1&d=1198993016

When you write Roy Jinks at the company to get your revolver “lettered,” be sure to include your stories about “grandma the gunlady.” :D He will get a big kick out of it. Such things make his day.

There is no reason you shouldn’t shoot the revolver if it is in good mechanical condition. The .32 S&W Long cartridge is downloaded because of the many older 19th and early 20th century guns that were chambered to use it. While it isn’t powerful by today’s standards, it is highly accurate and the recoil is mild.

Over the years Winchester used a number of different headstamps on their cartridges, WRA is but one of them. I believe what you have could date anywhere from the mid-1930’s to early 1950’s. Ammunition is currently available, and if you decide to shoot the gun I would suggest that you buy a fresh box. I believe that Winchester still makes it.

T-Rex
December 30, 2007, 01:44 AM
Thanks again!

That drawing confirms what I was looking at with the inserts. I thought that was where you were describing they should be - and they are definitely there! (And, as you said, visible only with magnification.) You're right, it certainly is amazing how much better we make things today using our sophisticated methods and machines! :rolleyes:

The question about shooting the revolver is more of a practical issue. I don't plan to use it as I feel its more of an historical piece (I'll use the newer ones for regular shooting) but if I'm going to place this gun with the others, I want to know that it is reliable so I may put a few rounds through it...and part of that reliability would certainly be a box of new ammo. :)

I hope you had a great Christmas and if I don't chat with you again until after the 1st...Have a great New Year's!

Bobile
January 3, 2008, 07:28 PM
Serial #131011 on Butt, and on magazine end. triggerside, the #3538 visible when magazine is opened"32-20 CTG" on one side of 4'' barrel,"SMITH & WESSON" on otherside of barrel,S&W Trademark on side below thumb switch to open magazine,"MADE IN USA" on reverse side, same placement."SMITH & WESSON SPRINGFIELD MASS. U.S.A.PATENTED FEB.6.06,SEPT.14,08.DEC.29,14"on top of barrelWith original leather holster, in good condition.

Bobile
January 3, 2008, 07:34 PM
Those above are details, can you date this for me? It was my Great Grandfather's, and my Grandfather's, my Mother's, now mine.What modern ammo would be safe in it? What would you reccommend? I would love to fire it as it is another connection with men I never knew...besides my 100 year old Masonic ring which I wear proudly and justly.Thank you in advance Old Fuff!

Old Fuff
January 3, 2008, 09:53 PM
Welcome to The High Road.

Your Great Gandfather's revolver is a Smith & Wesson .32-20 Hand Ejector, Model of 1905, 4th Change.

Between 1905 and 1940 there were 4 major changes made in this revolver, which was also known as the .32-20 Military & Police. It had a 6-shot cylinder and was made on the company's mid-sized or "K" frame. Standard barrel lengths were 4, 5 and 6 inches - measured from the cylinder face to the muzzle. Standard finishes were blue or nickel plate. It could be ordered with a round butt and (usually) black hard-rubber socks, or a square butt with checkered walnut stocks. If the stocks are original the serial number of the gun will be penciled in on the inside of one panel. This is because they were individually fitted to that particular revolver. The number "3538" is an assembly number, unrelated to the serial number, and stamped on the frame and yoke (the part the cylinder swings out on) as they were fitted together, and it was imparative that they be brought back together after the parts were blued or plated.

The 4th change revolvers were made between 1915 and 1940, within a serial number range running from 65,701 to 144,684. I would estimate your revolver was made during the middle-later 1930's, but to be sure you would have to order an historical leter from Smith & Wesson, and pay a reasonable records search fee of $30.00. The letter would among other things say exactly when the gun was shipped from the factory, and to what distributor
or dealer. I strongly recommend that you obtain such a letter for any revolver that's being passed down through the family. For additional information and instructions, go to www.smith-wesson.com

As for shooting it. Smith & Wesson started heat-treating the cylinders for extra strength in September, 1919 at about serial number 81,287. Therefore it would be safe to shoot with any currently loaded .32-20 cartridges from the major makers, such as Winchester or Remington, as well as others that make so-called "cowboy cartridges," which are loaded with lead bullets and downloaded for use in the Cowboy Action Shooting game. All of this of course presumes that the gun you have is in good mechanical condition, and has not been abused.

The cartridge itself was introduced by Winchester for use in their model 1873 and 1892 lever action rifles and carbines. It is also known as the .32 WCF or Winchester Center Fire. Many individuals that owned such a long gun would buy a revolver that used the same cartridge. Perhaps your Great Grandpa was one of these. You should not hesitate to enjoy it.

2bigfeet
January 7, 2008, 03:58 PM
Well might as well keep the ball rolling...

My Father In Law just handed this to me the other day. After I plugged it into Google this was the first post I ran into.

S&W 32 long CTG
Top of barrel: FEB.6.06.SEPT.14.09.DEC.29.14
Inside of grip: 439088
Bottom of grip: PAT.JUNE 5.1917

Any info or general value would be appreciated...

http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa23/2bigfeet14/Guns/sw_2.jpg

http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa23/2bigfeet14/Guns/sw_1.jpg

http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa23/2bigfeet14/Guns/sw_3.jpg

http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa23/2bigfeet14/Guns/sw_4.jpg

2bigfeet
January 7, 2008, 04:01 PM
Double post. Couldn't figure out how delete.

Old Fuff
January 7, 2008, 04:53 PM
I've been Googled... :what: :what: :D

Anyway you have a Smith & Wesson .32 Regulation Police (prewar).

These were made between 1917 and 1942, within a serial number range running from 331,320 (give or take) to 536,684. The reason for the high starting number is that it was numbered in the same series as the .32 Hand Ejector, Model of 1903. There the numbers started at 1, and by the time the Regulation Police was introduced 1n 1917 the numbers were in the 331,000 ball park. The only difference between the two was that the 1903 had a round butt, where the Regulation Police has special stocks that converted the round butt to a square shape. The patent No. on the butt (June 5 1917) refers to the design of these stocks.

Because the frame was covered at the bottom by the extended stocks, the serial number was stamped on the forestrap, and also on the rear face of the cylinder and on the barrel's flat just above the ejector rod.

The Regulation Police was either chambered for the .32 S&W Long (6 shot) or .38 S&W (5 shot). Standard barrel lengths were 3 1/4, 4 1/4 or 6 inches (measured from the cylinder face to the muzzle). Cataloged finishes were full blue or nickel plate. The stocks were checkered walnut. I estimate your revolver was made during the middle-late 1920's.

If it's in good mechanical shape it's safe to shoot, ammunition is available, and you'll find it to be exceptionally accurate for a gun of this size.

copes1
January 7, 2008, 05:06 PM
I like the looks of those stocks. Is it possible to purchase those stocks today? I would like to replace the rounded stocks on my .32 S&W if they would fit? I've looked at some other options, but haven't really found anything I liked.

Old Fuff
January 7, 2008, 05:13 PM
Unfortunately no... because they modified the backstrap on the round-butt frame by undercutting it so that the wood fitted better. They did make a slightly different stock that did fit an unmodified 1903 frame, and you can get round-butt to square-butt conversion stocks for the later J-frame guns.

2bigfeet
January 7, 2008, 05:20 PM
Old Fuff thanks so much for the info, time and effort.

Any ideas as to the general value? This was my Father In-Law's main request when he handed it to me.

Thanks again.

Old Fuff
January 7, 2008, 05:52 PM
To some degree the value depends on what the market demand is for .32 revolvers in your area. So far as interest is concerned, it seems to mostly come from collectors. On the collector's market I would estimate around $325.00, give or take $50.00.

On the other hand I expect to see a jump in new gun prices shortly, and this will be reflected in the used gun market. So far as a neat, little .32 revolver is concerned, they don't come any better then what you've got, and the choice and availability is limited.

2bigfeet
January 7, 2008, 08:47 PM
Thanks again... :)

gateway_sc
January 20, 2008, 11:33 PM
I just wanted to say that I finally sent off for a history letter from S&W. I received the letter yesterday. Old Fuff nailed the serial number details, but the additional information was that the gun was shipped to Simmons Hardware Co. in St. Louis on November 22, 1906.

Old Fuff
January 21, 2008, 12:11 AM
Well the Old Fuff isn't always perfect... :eek: :D

Bobile
January 24, 2008, 09:07 AM
to post # 118. I will be contacting S&W for that letter. Your expertise and kindness is well appreciated, and I will think of it when I shoot the gun for the first time. Another connection with my family legacy has been made.

Be well,
Neil W. Ahrens (Bobile)

pjjake
January 29, 2008, 11:47 AM
Old Fuff,
I also stumbled accross your thread through a little googling. I have the exact same S&W 32 Long as in post #119 (sn# 337,130). I guess based on your other dating, I can assume mine was made in the early 20's. My question is were they sold on the open market or were they only issued to police. Sorry if this is a dumb question, but I know nothing about guns and this was found amoungst my great aunt's possesions.

Old Fuff
January 29, 2008, 04:07 PM
The "Regulation Police" was the name of the model. Smith & Wesson, starting with the beginning of the company in 1857 always sold their products to civilians, law enforcement and both foreign and U.S. military establishments. The only exception that I know of offhand was their model 76 sub-machinegun and a carbine developed for the British in 1940.

The Regulation Police model was targeted toward the law enforcement market at a time when even uniformed officers tended to carry revolvers under their coats. It was part of the 1903 Hand Ejector series, and the R.P. was introduced in 1917 at or about serial number 331,320. Your serial number 337,130 is an early one, but I don't believe many were made during 1918 when the First World War was on. I would speculate it was made during 1919 to perhaps 1921. It was one of Smith & Wessons more popular guns between the world wars.

vyseling
February 10, 2008, 11:19 PM
i have one of these i am trying to find info on. its not in real good shape but i am wanting to restore it.

left side of barrel: 32 winchester o/ctg (not sure which due to a flaw)
numbers on butt and cylinder are: J8064 (the numbers are clear but it looks like a letter just before them with the same spacing as the numbers, it might just be 8064)
when the cylinder is open there is a number on the frame: 371 31

as far as i can tell there are no other markings on the gun but like i said its not in the best of condition.

this gun is nearly identical to the picture of a smith and wesson/winchester 32-20 (32wcf) military and police 2nd model i seen on armsbid.com. with a few exceptions the butt is wide and flat on bottom, not narrow and round. and the armsbid one has a straight barrel mine has a slight tapering as it comes out of the gun and then goes straight. everything else is a match includeing the location of the pins that show on the left side of the gun. the entire plate on the right that covers the internal mechanics is missing so no help there on any markings.

i know i need to order a couple of parts but i'm not sure what to tell the shop when i order them.

any ideas as to exacaly what this is??

Old Fuff
February 11, 2008, 08:30 AM
It would appear to be a Smith & Wesson .32-20 1905 Hand Ejector, but none of these had a letter in the serial number. The missing part is called a "sideplate" and you have a problem there in that they were individually fitted to each frame. You could buy a replacement but it is questionable if it would work.

The serial number on original parts were stamped on the butt of the frame, rear face of the cylinder, bottom of the barrel on the flat above the ejector rod, and inside the stocks. The other number you found is a factory assembly number, and for purposes of identification doesn't matter.

There were aslo patent dates stamped on top of the barrel. If you can read then list the last one or two.

It could be a Spanish copy of a S&W - they made a lot of them. The unusual shape of the barrel makes me wonder. A picture would be a big aid in identification.

ledwards
February 20, 2008, 01:11 PM
My mother-in-law has an old S&W 32 ctg with a mother of pearl handle and the serial number 175187. She has had it at least 30 years. Can anyone tell me how old it might be? I know practically nothing about handguns.

Old Fuff
February 20, 2008, 02:11 PM
Need to have more information because S&W made several models of .32 revolvers.

1. Is it a "hand ejector," where you swing the cylinder out to the left to load and unload it, or is it a top-break where you twist the barrel downward and the cartridges eject themselves as you do this, or is it something entirely different?

2. There may be patent dates on top of the barrel. If so, what are the last two?

3. Measure the barrel length from the front face of the cylinder to the end of the barrel.

4. Can you cock and fire this revolver by pulling the trigger, or do you have to thumb-cock it first?

5. Or does it have an enclosed hammer that you can't cock with your thumb, and a grip safety on the back of the handle that you have to squeeze before you can pull the trigger?

papurser79
March 2, 2008, 02:03 PM
Inherited an old .32 caliber revolver: S&W on grips/frame with ".32 Winchester OTG" on barrel. Serial number on barrel matches others on gun: "21717." Have not yet the opportunity to send off to S&W for gun history. Any information on age, rarity, etc. is greatly appreciated. See pics.

This is a hand ejector, double action, 4 1/4 inch barrel, exposed hammer, last two dates on barrel are:Sept 02, July 03.

Old Fuff
March 2, 2008, 03:33 PM
Your revolver is a Smith & Wesson .32-20 Hand Ejector, Model of 1905.

This particular variant was made between 1905 and 1906, within a serial number range running from 18,126 to 22,426 with 4,300 being produced.

Standard barrel lengths were 4, 5 and 6 1/2 inches (measured from the cylinder face to the end of the muzzle). Cataloged finishes were blue or nickel plated. The stocks were molded hard rubber. The .32-20 cartridge (also known as the .32 Winchecter Center Fire, or "W.C.F.) was used in Winchester and other rifles, and the S&W revolver could use the same round.

While your revolver isn't particularly valuable as a collector's item, it is over a century old, and I would think important to you and your family. I would get a historical letter from S&W.

I should add that the information and photographs you provided were especially helpful in making an identification.

Ol' Pete
April 9, 2008, 07:51 PM
Great Forum! Lots of good info thus far...

Like everyone else, we've been trying to figure out what we have here. There is significant deterioration of the finish along the the top and sides of the barrel, so I'm not sure if it is stainless, nickel, or what. All I can tell is that it has 32 S&W CTG stamped along the side of the barrel. Along the top of the barrel is Smith and Wesson Springfield Mass USA Pat'd Feby 20 xx, Dec 18 xx, May 11, x0, Sept 11, 8x, Oct 2,88(?), Aug 4, xx. I cant make out the years clearly even with a magnifying glass. Serial number is 1509xx. It is a hammerless 5 round top break double action revolver with 3" barrel. The butt of the pistol has some checkering and appears to push in at the top of where your hand wraps around the grip. The grip is also dark colored with a checker pattern. Five rounds are with it that have R-P 32 S&W stamped on the casing.

Any guesses on what we have??? It is identical to Yitbos69's pictures.

Thanks! Pete

Old Fuff
April 9, 2008, 10:16 PM
Well in spite of it all, you posted a pretty good description... :cool:

I think you have a Smith & Wesson .32 Safety Hammerless, 2nd. Model. They were made between 1902 and 1909, within a serial number range running from 91,418 to about 170,000. No. 150,9xx was probably made around 1905 give or take a couple of years.

These were very popular pocket revolvers because that checkered piece you see on the back of the handle is a grip safety that has to be squeezed in before the trigger is pulled. The feature made accidental discharges almost impossible, and it was also advertised as an additional safety if small children were around. Standard barrel lengths were 3 and 3 1/2 inches, but special lengths ran from 2 to 6 inches. The stocks are black hard rubber that have likely turned brownish with age. Be careful, as they are now very fragile and crack or chip easily. Standard finishes were full blue or nickel plate with a blued barrel latch and trigger guard. The trigger was color case-hardened.

Those patent dates you can't read are: Feb. 20 1887, Dec. 18, 1887, May 11, 1880, Sept. 11, 1883, Oct. 2, 1883, Aug. 4, 1885.

The 5-shot cylinder is chambered in .32 S&W. Ammunition is around but difficult to find. Given the revolvers age and condition it might not be a good idea to shoot it.

Production started in 1888 and the gun was so well liked it continued in S&W's catalog until 1937.

Given this gun's history, I suggest that you get it "lettered." To do so you will need a snapshot of the gun, a full description including the serial number on the butt, and a check in the amount of $30.00 made out to Smith & Wesson. In exchange the company's historian, Roy G. Jinks, will research the original records (which are not computerized by the way) and send you a letter containing the details of what he finds.

This comprehensive document will contain an overview of the model’s history, followed by the details of your particular gun. This usually includes the caliber, barrel length, finish, and the exact date it was shipped from the factory, and to what distributor or dealer. If there are any special features they will be listed too. This information is often invaluable to both you and future generations.

Additional information on a historical letter will be found at the Smith & Wesson company website at: www.smith-wesson.com

paulcap
May 2, 2008, 08:36 PM
serial #571---. what do I have

paulcap
May 2, 2008, 08:47 PM
OK my S&W has barral markings 32 Long CTG on right and Smith and Wesson on left barrel Serial #571xxx. what do I have

Old Fuff
May 2, 2008, 09:27 PM
Welcome to the High Road, but we need more information. I could take a long shot at what you posted, but I'd have an equal chance of being right or wrong. So to better identify what your revolver is:

How long is the barrel? Measure from the front of the cylinder to the end of the muzzle.

Are there patent dates stamped on to of the barrel? If so, what is the last one?

I would expect it has a round butt, with black, hard-rubber stocks. If not, describe what they are.

The answers should at least get things started... ;)

jerosejr
May 8, 2008, 09:25 PM
What is the manufacture date of a Smith and Wesson .32 Long, 6 shot, 1.5 barrel. The serial number on the bottom of the frame is H35462. It has walnut grips.

Thank you!
Joe

idiazsantiago
May 29, 2008, 11:23 PM
Hello, New member.

Just a quick question, I recently was shown a old 32 S&W CTG but the number 2 is backwards. The gun is hammerless silver plated with pearl handles Serial Number 134662 3 1/2 barrel, 5 shot. Sorry I can not include pictures. Can you tell me what year is it?

DPris
May 29, 2008, 11:53 PM
Getting to be either a joke or a new free Internet S&W Identification Service. :)

Old Fuff
May 30, 2008, 01:36 AM
idiazsantiago:

Welcome to The High Road. :cool:

I think your revolver is identical to one I identified in post #139 in this thread, so I'll repeat myself.

I think you have a Smith & Wesson .32 Safety Hammerless, 2nd. Model. They were made between 1902 and 1909, within a serial number range running from 91,418 to about 170,000. No. 134,662 was probably made around 1905 give or take a couple of years.

These were very popular pocket revolvers because that checkered piece you see on the back of the handle is a grip safety that has to be squeezed in before the trigger is pulled. The feature made accidental discharges almost impossible, and it was also advertised as an additional safety if small children were around. Standard barrel lengths were 3 and 3 1/2 inches, but special lengths ran from 2 to 6 inches. The stocks are mother of pearl, and if they have a gold colored S&W medalion at the top they're genuine S&W stocks and worth somewhat more then others. Standard finishes were full blue or nickel plate with a blued barrel latch and trigger guard. The trigger was color case-hardened.

The patent dates on top of the barrel are: Feb. 20 1887, Dec. 18, 1887, May 11, 1880, Sept. 11, 1883, Oct. 2, 1883, Aug. 4, 1885.

The 5-shot cylinder is chambered in .32 S&W. Ammunition is around but difficult to find. Given the revolvers age it might not be a good idea to shoot it.

Production started in 1888 and the gun was so well liked it continued in S&W's catalog until 1937.

Given this gun's history, I suggest that you get it "lettered." To do so you will need a snapshot of the gun, a full description including the serial number on the butt, and a check in the amount of $30.00 made out to Smith & Wesson. In exchange the company's historian, Roy G. Jinks, will research the original records (which are not computerized by the way) and send you a letter containing the details of what he finds.

This comprehensive document will contain an overview of the model’s history, followed by the details of your particular gun. This usually includes the caliber, barrel length, finish, and the exact date it was shipped from the factory, and to what distributor or dealer. If there are any special features they will be listed too. This information is often invaluable to both you and future generations.

Additional information on a historical letter will be found at the Smith & Wesson company website at: www.smith-wesson.com

Old Fuff
May 30, 2008, 01:39 AM
Getting to be either a joke or a new free Internet S&W Identification Service.

Free my foot!! I charge $500,000.00 per post... :what: :what: :what:

But seldom collect... :evil: :D

Old Fuff
May 30, 2008, 01:53 AM
jerosejr:

It would appear that you have either a Smith & Wesson model 30 or 31, made during 1971 or 72.

If it has a round butt it's a model 30 (.32 Hand Ejector) of if a square butt it's a model 31 (.32 Regulation Police.)

The 1 1/2" barrel seems unlikely. Measure from the front cylinder face to the muzzle, and see if it isn't 2 inches, +/- 1/16".

mustang1
June 9, 2008, 09:29 AM
I have an old S&W .32 L and would like to find out just how old it is and it's value. Here's what I've got:

Barrel length - 2"
Length of entire gun - 6"
Left side barrel - SMITH & WESSON
Right side barrel - 32 S. & W. LONG (does not have CTG. extension)
Right side - MADE IN U.S.A. MARCAS REGISTRADAS SMITH & WESSON SPRINGFIELD, MASS.
6 Shot swing out cylinder
Double action
Wood handle with small diamond cut pattern. A larger diamond where the screw goes through the handle.
Serial #617XXX on handle, barrel and cylinder
There is no safety lock
Standard S&W trademark logo on left and on each side of grip

The gun is in extremely good/near mint condition.

Would appreciate any help you can give me.

tinygnat219
June 9, 2008, 09:56 AM
Old Fuff,

You know, S&W charges 30 bucks a letter. You could probably do something similar and just cite the sources. :evil:

Old Fuff
June 9, 2008, 10:05 AM
Oh I charge much more then that... :what:

But I never get paid. :banghead: :D

I think I am going to have to type up a boilerplate so that all I have too do is fill in the blanks. On a more serious note, "we" (myself and others) do this because it attracts more members to the forum. Hopefully some of them stay. :)

Old Fuff
June 9, 2008, 10:28 AM
Mustang1:

You didn't mention if your revolver has a round or square butt, and this is important. I am going to assume it is a round butt, and you correct me if I'm wrong.

I think you have a .32 Hand Ejector (pre-model 30)) made shortly after World War Two. These were made from 1946 to 1960, within a serial number range running from 536,685 to 712,953. The 2" barrel was introduced in 1949, and the upper sideplate screw was eliminated in 1955 at serial number 640,980. That would bracket your revolver as having been made between 1949 and 1955 - which is as close as I can get. In mint/like new condition you have a prize. I suggest that you write S&W and get it lettered.

Additional information on a historical letter will be found at the Smith & Wesson company website at:

http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CustomContentDisplay?storeId=10001&catalogId=11101&content=25301&sectionId=10504

mustang1
June 9, 2008, 11:17 AM
Thanks for the qick reply! It is a round butt, you assumed correctly.

The gun is in near mint condition. Cleaned when used and stored holstered in my nightstand for nearly 28 years now. I will try to post pictures later. Sounds like dad made a good investment when he bought it used for $15 in 1960.

Old Fuff
June 9, 2008, 11:41 AM
Don't store it in a holster. In high humidity environments the leather may ruin the blue finish. You can buy inexpensive "socks" that will wick off moisture.

I would estimate that the present value is in the $400.00 ballpark. There are some members on the forum that say that over the long run, intangibles (stocks & bonds) are a better investment, but markets go up and down, and stock certificates won’t provide any personal protection if things go bump in the night. :uhoh:

mustang1
June 9, 2008, 12:05 PM
I couldn't figure out how to post the photos but here are links to them.

http://www.msnusers.com/32LongSW/shoebox.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=1

http://www.msnusers.com/32LongSW/shoebox.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=3

mzimmers
June 16, 2008, 08:48 PM
Hey, Old Fuff –

As long as you're giving out information, perhaps you could tell me something about this one:

http://scopedin.com/images/32l.jpg
http://scopedin.com/images/32r.jpg

It's a .32 S&W Long, and the s/n is 336730. It's a real beater, but it's a good curiosity piece (at least to me). Note the S&W logo on the left side of the frame.

What would the official model name be for this revolver?

Thanks...

mz

Shade00
June 16, 2008, 10:33 PM
Based on the serial number, stocks, pinned barrel, and S&W being on the left side, I would say that it's most likely a .32 hand ejector, 3rd model.

Old Fuff
June 16, 2008, 11:48 PM
Yup. the official name would be: 1903 Hand Ejector, 3rd. Model.

These were made between 1917 and 1942, within a serial number range running from 263,001 to 536,684. I roughly estimate your revolver was made during the early 1920's. Heat treated cylinders were introduced in 1920 at serial number 321,000.

It would seem to have had a hard life. Do take good care of her.

mzimmers
June 17, 2008, 01:14 AM
OK, thanks, guys. I just got this one a couple of months ago. It was on an auction site, and for $99, I just couldn't resist. I think its firing days are over, but it's fun to look at and play with.

So, this would be an I-frame, right?

Old Fuff
June 17, 2008, 09:13 AM
Yes, it is an I-frame. Smith & Wesson used it to build the following models before World War Two.

.32 Hand Ejector, Model of 1903
.32 Regulation Police
.38 Regulation Police
.38 Terrier
.22/32 Kit Gun
.22/32 Target

Guillermo
June 17, 2008, 09:37 AM
Hey Old Fuff

It is surprising you didn't offer to buy Mustang's old used up revolver at your usual generous price.

Feeling okay?

Old Fuff
June 17, 2008, 10:29 AM
Oh darn.... :uhoh:

I made the mistake of writing an answer before my first cup of coffee. I do hope he reconsiders this:

I think its firing days are over, but it's fun to look at and play with.

I have also noticed that since The High Road has grown larger, fewer and fewer folks respond to my generous offers. :scrutiny:

Guillermo
June 17, 2008, 10:37 AM
Gee Old Fuff,

I can't understand why :evil:

mzimmers
June 17, 2008, 11:18 AM
Hey, Fuff –

Thanks for the information. Like I said, this gun is a real beater, and not just cosmetically. When I got it, the end shake was horrendous, and the cylinder wouldn't lock up. Plus, the part that retains the hand spring within the side plate is broken. I sent it to S&W, knowing that a lack of parts would make it tough for them to do much, but Gene was able to greatly reduce the end shake and get it to lock up. He did say, though, that if it were his gun, he probably wouldn't shoot it. I do have a pre-31 which I can shoot whenever I'm in the mood to fire off .32 S&Ws.

Old Fuff
June 17, 2008, 11:28 AM
Well I used to be able to exploit… I mean “help” old wider ladies and some less informed gun owners by offering to take old worthless revolvers off their hands, and only asking that they pay me a small $100 fee for doing so. :what:

But then things turned south, and I actually had to offer to pay them to get this junk, even though I often pointed out that their pre-war mint/like new Colt or Smith & Wesson was hopelessly obsolete in an age where the most popular handguns have polymer frames and hold a lot of bullets, rather then just 5 or 6…. :uhoh: :banghead:

But now with the Internet and all, even the most vulnerable… I mean “misinformed” of my potential sources are getting more demanding, and unreasonably so. It’s sad, I just don’t know what I should do. :confused:

ncff07
August 2, 2008, 09:27 PM
I was searching for info on a certain model of old revolver and came accross this site. i read and read until i got confused and not sure what to consider the one i have. my great uncle gave my mother an old Smith & Wesson 32 long revolver before he passed away. she wanted to sell it and i ended up buying it from her and was wanting to find out any information i could about this particular gun. she did take it to a pawn shop that deals alot in pistols and long guns they told her the value was $450 but i have my reservations on that price. not sure yet if i'll keep it or trade it in on a semi auto. the gun is a S&W 32 long. has "32 LONG CTG" stamped on the left side of the barrel. on the left side below the release is has the S&W trademark stamp. on the top of the barrel it has the following:

"Smith & Wesson Springfield Mass
Pat't March 27, 94. Aug 4, 96. Dec 22, 96.
oct 8, 01. Dec 17, 01. Feb 6, 06. Sept 14, 08"

the serial number on the butt of the gun reads 1447XX and i took the grips(black) off and checked theres no numbers on the inner side of those. the gun is in pretty good shape, no rust at all but the finish is pretty worn. the cylinder locks and the action works perfect it just gets pretty stiff when the hammer is pulled back manually near the lock position. maybe it just needs oil. i took 3 pics with my cell phone ill post as well. and ive had trouble finding shells for it. what i did find for it was 32 S&W long 98 grain lead wadcutters. is this safe to use in this gun? only other 32's ive seen were 32 auto and was leery to get that i read not to use those or anything but shells with lead bullets. any information anyone can enlighten me with would be greatly appreciated! :D
http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l186/ncff07/080208_20302.jpg
http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l186/ncff07/080208_2030.jpg
http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l186/ncff07/080208_20301.jpg

Guillermo
August 3, 2008, 11:31 AM
NCff07

Don't worry. Old Fuff will be along and tell you everything you need to know about it. He is amazing.

Once he went through the door of a gunshow and while standing in the doorway he raised his head like a hunting dog, sniffing the air.

He was able to walk directly to the tables with old S&W's.

Once in physical physical contact with them they "mind-meld." He has avoided many abused and altered revolvers that way.

ncff07
August 5, 2008, 11:08 PM
i hope so. theres so many things out there and so many versions i cant keep track of it! when it comes to that my mind is gone like a fart in a windstorm! :scrutiny:

Shade00
August 6, 2008, 12:09 AM
Fuff is on vacation, so I will do what I can.

ncff07, what you have is a S&W .32 Hand Ejector of 1903, 5th change. Manufactured sometime between 1910 and 1917 - likely the earlier part. $450 is very high for a gun with a worn finish - if it is mechanically sound, expect to pay $250 or less when looking at 75% finish or less.

The .32 Hand Ejector was built on S&W's I-frame, which is strikingly similar to the later-introduced J-frame, but with a much smaller grip handle.

Any modern .32 S&W or .32 S&W Long ammunition is safe to use in your handgun. Lead bullets are only a concern for those who wish to minimize cleanup. I shoot lead all the time. Just take a little extra time when cleaning the bore and cylinders.

The .32 Hand Ejector is supposed to be a great little shooter. .32 S&W Long is a fun and accurate cartridge. I would not hesitate to shoot that a bunch.

ncff07
August 12, 2008, 04:29 AM
thank you. i did go look at some autoloaders saturday was thinking about trading for something with a bigger punch but after reading reviews on the ones that were in stock ive decided to keep the revolver for now. maybe. unless i find something i just cant pass up! :D

mnrivrat
August 12, 2008, 04:54 AM
I will 2nd Shade00's evaluation of your old S&W. Along side me sits my example of the same gun with a little earlier SN. (1903 HE - 5th Change)

I would also say that your value is less than $250 in the condition shown and mentioned. If in OK condition they are indeed good to shoot and I run a few rounds through mine now and again . I changed my barrel out for a shorter one (3&1/4") because I like the looks with the shorter tube. They are fun to shoot and a rather classic gun.

BobbyC
September 1, 2008, 06:44 PM
My Dad has a Smith & Wesson 32 long Springfield MASS USA Pat'd April 10 1889 March 8 1894 Aug 4 1896 Dec 22 1896 Oct 8 1901 Dec 17 1901 Sept 2 1902 July 1903 on left side of barrell. It has hard black rubber grips. It is blue 4" or 41/2" barrel. I know thw serials don't come close to the numbers listed on this forum but the number on the bottom of the fram is 0 or G 887 O or G
and it has 32 long CTG on it.
Can anyone tell me when this double action revolver was made and what the value of it is? It is in very good shape.

REPII
September 6, 2008, 11:06 PM
I have a gun here that came from my grandma. It is a six shot side opening revolver with a five inch barrel. On the right side it is says 32 wcf ctg which i know stands for winchester center fire cartridge. Most of the hand ejector models that I have seen break open to reload so I am a little confused about which model it is. The serial number is 355xx. The patent dates start at Oct 5 1901 and the last one is december 28th 1914 If anybody could help me identify it I would appreciate it

mnrivrat
September 7, 2008, 12:14 AM
Hi Guys - if you don't get the info you seek here ,try posting on the sticky at the top of the revolver portion of the forum. DOB of S&W , and the people who monitor that sticky should be able to help you out. :D

taurustracker
September 12, 2008, 01:01 PM
I have a 32 long CTG serial #40462-I took the grips off and engraved on the iron is -NC188 1481 ? on the inside of black grip #299415-outside S&W and diamond in center-what was once blue finish is now a beautiful brass look -any info would be greatly appreciated-

Old Fuff
September 12, 2008, 02:19 PM
Bobby C:

Check the serial number again. It should be stamped on the bottom of the butt, the rear face of the cylinder, and on the bottom of the barrel above the ejector rod. Swing out the cylinder to see it. If the stocks (grips) are original to the gun one panel will be marked with the same serial number, or the least part of it. Ignore the number stamped on the frame under the back end of the barrel. Also what are the stocks made of, black hard rubber, checkered walnut, or something else? And does your revolver have a square or round butt?


taurustracker:

Same questions as above. There are some exceptions, and you may have one, but I would expect a serial number without letters in it. The most likely exception would be a Regulation Police model, with a square butt and checkered walnut stocks that wrap around the bottom of the butt.

Old Fuff
September 12, 2008, 02:39 PM
REPII:

Your revolver is a .32 WCF 1905 Hand Ejector, 2nd Change. The 2nd Change revolvers were made during 1908 and 1909 within a serial number range running from 33,501 to 45,200 Be aware that it does not have a heat-treated cylinder, and that it is 100 years old or close to it.

A "Hand Ejector" revolver is one where the cylinder swings out to the left for loading and unloading. A "Top Break" revolver is one where the barrel is unlatched and swung downward (like a double-barreled shotgun) to load or unload it.

On re-reading your post I notice that the patent dates don't match the serial number. Double check to be sure you posted the right number. See the above post for instructions.

mawtater
September 13, 2008, 11:53 PM
we would like to know the date or an estimated guess of when it was made . I have the serial number (66523) but the patented dates are not really visible. Can anyone help with this?
Thanks

mawtater
September 13, 2008, 11:54 PM
please help

Old Fuff
September 14, 2008, 09:39 AM
We are always glad to help, but without a photograph some additional information is needed because S&W made more then one model with the .32 cartridge markings on the side of the barrel. That marking tells what ammunition should be used in the revolver, and does not identify the model.

The serial number should be on the bottom of the butt, the rear face of the cylinder, and the bottom of the barrel above the ejector rod. To see this number you will have to swing out the cylinder, and all of the mentioned numbers should match,

Does the frame have a round or square butt, and are the stocks/grips made out of black hard rubber, checkered walnut, or something else?

Measure the barrel from the front face of the cylinder to the end of the muzzle.

Then we should we able to get somewhere. :)

taurustracker
September 15, 2008, 09:31 AM
Thank YOU--andd here are the answers to the questions-The number is 46462-SN---black hard rubber with diamond in center -the butt is square-the other numbers I wrote down from inside the grip are correct-and I'm going to sell the gun today and just wanted to make sure I didn't get who-do"ed :)
Thank You Pamela

Old Fuff
September 15, 2008, 10:29 AM
You apparently have a S&W .32 1903 Hand Ejector; 1st. change.

These were made between 1904 and 1906, within a serial number range running from 19,426 to 51,126.

Book values run from $165 in fair condition to $385 in excellent + (which would be almost like new).

Ammunition (.32 S&W Long) is available, but given the revolver's age I wouldn't recommend shooting it until it is checked by a qualified gunsmith.

Standard barrel lengths were 3 1/4, 4 1/4 and 6 inches. Standard finish was blue or nickel plate.

mawtater
September 15, 2008, 04:31 PM
The calibur is 32 s & w. it has a 3 inch barrell , 5 shot cylinder, the serial numbers are 66523 ( matching). It has the round butt , with black hard rubber stocks.

mawtater
September 15, 2008, 04:33 PM
Also it is a breakdown cylinder (not the swing out). What we would like to know is when it was made . Thanks

Old Fuff
September 15, 2008, 05:31 PM
Well again some critical information is missing... :(

But I'll take a shot at it anyway, with the understanding I could be wrong.

I will presume that this revolver is a double-action, has a conventional trigger guard, and that that the hammer is the kind you can cock with your thumb. If this description doesn't match what you have come back and we'll try again.

The above would be a Smith & Wesson D.A. 32; 4th Model.

These were made from 1883 to 1909, within a serial number range running from 43,406 to about 282,999.

Standard barrel lengths were 3 and 3 1/2 inches, but lengths up to 8" are known. Standard finish was blue, or nickel plate with a blued trigger guard and barrel latch. The hammer and trigger were color case-hardened. Stocks were generally black hard rubber or pearl.

To exactly date the revolver would involve getting it "lettered" at the factory. For a $30.00 fee they will research the old records, going back a 100 years or more (likely more), find a shipping entry for your gun and send you a letter with all of the details they find out, including the day/year it was shipped - and to what distributor or dealer.

Additional information is available at the company web site at:

www.smith-wesson.com Go to: customer service > historical letter.

mawtater
September 16, 2008, 06:58 PM
Thank You for your help. Once the smith and wesson website is taking orders again i will be able to send off for the history on the gun . I do appreciate all the help you have given .:)

BRachum
September 22, 2008, 10:44 PM
I recently obtained my father's old S&W 32 revolver. It was stored in a box in my brother's basement for about 20+ years. (Dad took sick and passed away in 1981 and I brought it to my brother's in 1988.

Serial Number on the front of the grip, back of cylinder and under the barrel is:
367586. On the right side of the barrel is stamped 32 LONG CTG, Left side "Smith & Wesson",

Top of the Barrel: Smith & Wesson Springfield, Mass, USA
Patented Feb 6, 06, Sept 14, 09, Dec 29, 14

Bottom of square walnut grip: Pat. June 5, 1917

Barrel length from front of cylinder to muzzle: 3 1/4 inches.

I appreciate your help with identifying this revolver and it's approximate age.

Thank you,


Bruce

REPII
September 23, 2008, 11:19 AM
I have verified that the serial numbers and patent dates that I posted are correct. I have heard some rumers that there are some Spanish copies of this gun out there is there a chance that this could be one of them. If so is there any way to make a positive determination about this.

Old Fuff
September 23, 2008, 03:38 PM
REPII:

It would be unsusal but not impossible for a revolver that was supposedly made during or before 1909 to have a barrel with a 1914 patent date. Without having the gun I have to speculate.

1. Sometime after it was made it was rebarreled with a 4th change barrel (1914 - 1941) that did have the Dec. 1914 patent date. In that case it probably wouldn't have the serial number stamped on the bottom of the barrel above the ejector rod.

2. The revolver's frame was serial numbered prior to 1910, but not assembled into a complete gun until 1914 or thereafter. It would take a factory letter to determine that, as the letter would (or should) have the shipping date. If the barrel is original to the frame I would expect the serial number to be stamped on the bottom, as previously described.

3. Is it a fake, made in Spain or elsewhere? I would need a clear photograph to tell, but the European guns are much inferior in fit and finish of the genuine S&W products.

cluckhut
October 1, 2008, 02:06 AM
Hi

I have a 32WCFCTG seriel# 87281 with a 6" barrel and target sights with micro marked on them front and rear.
Also has fancy wingedwood target grips probably not factory, finish is I would guess very good and seems to be tight. Any help on numbers would be helpfull. Thanks!

magoar
October 6, 2008, 12:41 PM
Hi, I´m a new member and I have a S&W .32 long ctg revolver round butt, 2" barrel, 6 shots, wood grips.

My question is this it has diferents numbers and I´m so confuse abuot it, in the butt it´s stamped 342613, in the bottom of the barrel it´s 596621V andthen in the cylinder it´s 596621, in the yoke it´s 791598 and then inside the sideplate it´s 79159.

Could somebody tell me the model and explain to me about this gun.

Thanks

Old Fuff
October 6, 2008, 03:51 PM
I think that the folks at Smith & Wesson had a bad day... :evil::D

The bottom of the barrel and rear face of the cylinder seem to agee on 596,621. The number in the yoke (791,598) and inside the sideplate (79159) are assembly numbers, and can be ignored for our purposes.

The bottom of the frame/handle should also be stamped with the number 596,621 - but that could be covered by the wood stocks. If that isn't the case, and that number really is 342,613 I'd conclude that it was rebuilt at some time using the barrel and cylinder (as well as some other parts) that were removed from another gun with the serial number 596,621. Only a factory letter could confirm this, and it would cost you $50.00.

If the revolver's true serial number is indeed 596,621 it is a S&W .32 Hand Ejector; Postwar pre-model 30. This would be a 6-shot .32 S&W Long revolver. Round butt with standard barrel lengths of 2, 3 1/4, 4 1/4 or 6 inches. Probably made on the Improved I-frame, which preceeded the current J-frame but was slightly shorter. Likely made around 1950.

A picture would help substantially to help make a more positive identification.

magoar
October 6, 2008, 06:11 PM
Thank you, it´s very useful to me, later I will attach pictures of the gun.

BRachum
October 6, 2008, 11:04 PM
As I posted in message # 187 I am looking for information regarding this 32 S&W that was my father's. My 15 year old son is very interested in family heirlooms and history. (He wears his grandfather's Ike jacket from WW2.)

Thank you,



Bruce

Old Fuff
October 7, 2008, 07:25 AM
Sorry about the delay, but sometimes the folks that ask questions far outnumber those who answer them, but sooner or later an answer is forthcoming. :)

Your father's revolver is a Smith & Wesson .32 Regulation Police. It is a variant of the Company's popular .32 1903 Hand Ejector. The latter had a round butt, but S&W modified it so that it could have a square one, which they believed would be popular with police departments. The patent date stamped on the bottom of the stocks (June 9, 1917) covers the design of the special stocks.

This 6-shot revolver is chambered to use .32 S&W Long cartidges, which are available. I would suggest that you have it checked over by a gunsmith, after which there is no reason you or your son can't shoot it.

Standard barrel lengths were 3 1/4, 4 1/4 and 6 inches. Standard finishes were blue or nickel plate.

This vaiant was introduced in 1917, and serial numbered in the same series as the earlier .32 Hand Ejector; Model of 1903. As a consequence serial numbers on the .32 Regulation Police start in the 260,000 range, and go to 536,000 at which point they stop in 1942 when World War Two started. Production resumed after the war. I estimate that your revolver was made sometime during the middle/latter 1920's.

More detailed information can be obtained for a $50.00 research fee from Smith & Wesson. They will go back and find the original shipping record for your particular revolver and send you a formal letter with the details, including the exact day it was shipped, and to what distributor or dealer. I highly recommend this service for those that are passing a gun down through the generations. Additional details will be found at the company website at:

www.smith-wesson.com

BRachum
October 8, 2008, 10:48 AM
Old Fuff.

Sorry for being impatient and thank you for your response. I was guessing by your responses for other 32s that the revolver was made much later than that. I and my older brother remember our father starting to carry it in the mid 70's after he was followed out of his business by a "gentleman" carrrying a bat under his jacket.

My son and I did fire it this weekend (putting 100 rounds through it) and it does shoot very nice, about all but 2 or 3 rounds into the outline of a "bad guy" target from about 20-25 feet at the range.

Again, thank you for your help.

Bruce

wdavis111
October 15, 2008, 03:53 PM
Like so many others here, I'm looking for any info you can give on my Dad's S&W 32 Long CTG that we found packed away when he passed recently. I'm posting some photos, but in a nutshell, it's nickel plated, 3.25 barrel, flat bottom wooden handle with serial number 548367 stamped on the bottom of the grip and the back of the cylinder.

Any info would be appreciated!

Walter Davis
Houston, TX

cglove
October 25, 2008, 11:34 PM
I am trying to find out some information on my pistol ie, what year it was made, what model is it, what is its value, how many were made and where did it come from.

The pistol has a serial #242174 on both the barrell the cylinder and the butt of the grip. I have a box that is brown and is not hinged with the date Dec. 28, 1920 and instructions in both English and Spanish. The barrel is 3" long. Are the grips ebony? The pistol is in excellent condition with no pitting or peeling or discoloration. The inside of the barrel and cylinder are shiney to a mirror finish.

Old Fuff
October 26, 2008, 01:13 PM
Wdavis111:

Your Dad’s revolver is a Smith & Wesson .32 Hand Ejector (Pre-Model 30) made shortly after World War Two. Post-war production started at serial number 536,685 during 1946 or 1948, depending on what source you are using.

Cylinders were 6-shot, and chambered to use the .32 S&W Long cartridge. Standard barrel lengths at the time were 3 ¼, 4 ¼ and 6 inches. Standard finishes were full blue or nickel plate, with color case-hardened hammers and triggers. Because your revolver appears to have a plated hammer and trigger I suspect that at some time it was refinished. The checkered walnut stocks are correct for the period, and if you remove them and check you may find that one panel is serial numbered to the gun. It should also have an improved hammer block that was developed during 1944, and consequently you can safely carry the cylinder fully loaded.

Old Fuff
October 26, 2008, 01:19 PM
cglove:

Please go to the following link and see if your revolver and the one pictured are generally the same. Your revolver should have a different barrel latch and the front sight is probably not pinned.

http://www.auctionflex.com/showlot.ap?co=33717&weventid=6570&weventitemid=2343355&wmaingroupid=0&wcatmastid=0&inventorytype=&minyear=2008&minmonth=10&minday=26&maxyear=2009&maxmonth=10&maxday=26&keyword=Smith&lotsortorder=lotnumasc&pagenum=1&action=&lang=En

I believe it is a Smith & Wesson .32 Safety Hammerless (New Departure), 3rd. Model.

The 3rd. Model variant was made between 1909 to 1937, within a serial number range running from 170,000 to 242,981. Some 73,000 of this particular variant were made. Note that your serial number (242,174) is only 807 short of the end of production. I suspect that the December 1920 date on the box does indicate when it left the factory, or was sold at retail – provided that the box is the one the revolver originally came in. See if the end label or bottom of the box has the serial number listed.

These revolvers had standard barrel lengths of 3 and 3 ½ inches, although other lengths (especially 2”) are known. The 5-shot cylinder is chambered to use .32 S&W cartridges. Standard finishes were full blue, or nickel plate with a blued barrel latch and trigger guard. The trigger was color case-hardened. Standard stocks were molded from a black hard-rubber material called “gutta percha.”

In total, Smith& Wesson made around 243,000 of these little pocket revolvers between 1888 and 1937.

Given the gun’s condition and the apparently original box with it, the current book value would be around $600 to $950 if it is as described.

MikeKeyW
October 26, 2008, 01:27 PM
I have a 32 S&W Long, Marked # 58 1238 4 on the frame, C 68771 on butt, bbl and cylinder. It is square butt and 5" tapered bbl. It was my uncles, known for his tall tails, he used to tell me it was the one used in the "Faster than a speeding bullet" Superman intro. It does kind of look like it. I know I'm asking but hope to be answering too. I'm more a Colt man, 4 1911's and 2 Python's, 3" and 6" and a AR. I'm still learning how much I don't know. Ask my teenagers...:neener:

Old Fuff
October 26, 2008, 01:38 PM
MikeKeyW:

Check the cartridge/caliber markngs on the side of the barrel again. What you describe should be a .38 Special, not a .32 S&W Long. If you are right you have a revolver they supposedly didn't make. :confused:

MikeKeyW
October 26, 2008, 01:55 PM
Actually "32 Long Ctg", I just double checked the #'s with stronger glasses, they're right. My 20" Steyr Mod. S 375 H&H doesn't exist either and my 3" Python's not too far behind. I was guessing mid to late 50's production from what you've said so far. Also there's a "J" stamped on the right side of the grip frame.

Old Fuff
October 26, 2008, 06:37 PM
I don't think I can go any further without a picture.

The "Superman" revolver was a .38 Special, Military & Police model with a 4" barrel. They were also made in .32-20 (.32 WCF) but never cataloged in .32 S&W Long, and not with a "C" serial number prefix.

The revolvers in .32 Long came with 3 1/4, 4 1/4 and 6 inch barrels before World War Two. After the war when older barrels had been used up they changed to lengths of 2, 3, and 4 inches, but never 5 inches.

With the exception of the Regulation Police model, all of the .32 S&W Long revolvers had round butts.

It is possible that the factory made a special run of K-frame, Military & Police revolvers chambered in .32 S&W Long, and released any over run on the U.S. commercial market. If so, there weren't many, and if you got a factory historical letter that confirmed this your gun would be exceptionally valuable - enough so to pay for the $50.00 letter several times over.

PS: Further research revealed the following:

One of the rarest groups of Military and Police revolvers compleated was manufactured from January 19, 1948 to February 3, 1950. These guns, designated the .32 Military & Police were designed to fire the .32 S&W Long cartridge rather then the .38 Special. The revolver was standard with a 4" barrel, but the firm produced a limited supply of 2" and 5" lengths. When production was completed, the firm had produced a total of 4,813 revolvers. Today one of these revolvers would be a rare find for the Smith & Wesson collector. (History of Smith & Wesson, by Roy G. Jinks; pp:166

My original suggestion of having the revolver lettered is now more stronger then ever. Additional information is available at the Smith & Wesson Co. website at: www.smith-wesson.com

MikeKeyW
October 26, 2008, 10:52 PM
Let me see if I can figure out how to get the pictures in here:
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3281/2976199851_cd31d9b78c_b.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3180/2976196953_8a6aaea8fb_b.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3146/2977053276_cc23f3fc99_b.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3248/2976199337_97da441284.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3071/2976200331_fab174967f.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3016/2977053852_11217f6571.jpg
It works in preview post so here goes, or as Dr. Fate in "The Great Race" would say, "Push the button Max..."

Old Fuff
October 27, 2008, 08:02 AM
Your pictures came up fine. :)

In my view it is without question one of the rare .32 Military & Police, pre-model 10 revolvers made during the middle-late 1940's or early 1950's. With a 5" barrel its collectors' value should be out of sight. But no collector is going to pay out big bucks unless the gun is "lettered" by Smith & Wesson's historian, Roy Jinks. The charge for having him research the gun through Smith & Wesson's records to confirm without question what it is, is now $50.00, and in this case well worth it.

I believe that most of these revolvers were made to fill overseas contracts, and that the gun you have was part of a small over-run. It wasn't ever cataloged for sale in the United States because so large a revolver chambered in .32 S&W Long wouldn't have been particularly popular.

Sorry to have to tell you all of this bad news.... :evil: But aren't you glad you joined The High Road? :cool:

towhead
October 27, 2008, 08:34 PM
OK, I'm a newbie. I'm trying to save $50 and some time.

My father decided he wanted a holster for his father-in-law's old revolver. I decided to get him one as a gift. I read somewhere that a company called El Paso Saddlery made a holster for John Wayne once so I thought "hey, that should be a quality holster."

So, I filled out the form:

S&W 2 1/2" barrel (measured from the front of the frame; mistake?)
barrel marked .32 long ctg

And I added a note, "Frame is smallish"

Guess what. El Paso Saddlery called and said they needed more information. (I could just hear the guy when he read my form, "Oh no, not another one of these customers!) LOL!)

I've been looking at pictures on the Gun Broker site. The gun looks the most like a S&W .32 Hand Ejector.

Here are all the numbers I could find:

337XXX (not trying to be secretive about the last three but I just wrote down the first three and the gun is 2 hrs away.)

I called my parents and asked them to look for more numbers, they are around 80 years old. Good as gold but eyesight, well you know. They emailed me these.

Two different ones found 557511 under grip or is it S instead of 5 ??

56677 with barrel open

(Now the number I took to be 337XXX is probably what they thought was 557XXX. They said "under the grip" but I doubt they removed the grips. And I found the XX7XXX on the very bottom of the gun. Stamped in the metal between the plastic grips.)

Oh yeah, the gun is nickel (chrome?) and has black plastic grips.
The gun is pretty old.

And I'm guessing what I measured as a 2-1/2" barrel (from front of frame) is actually a 3-1/4" barrel (including frame)?????

Sorry for the long confusing post. But I just want a holster and El Paso Saddlery is waiting.

MikeKeyW
October 27, 2008, 09:01 PM
Old Fluff, you don't know the rest of the story... For me it's like hitting a tri-fecta! It all started with me Googling 3" Colt Python. I knew that was a rare one when I got it in the early 80's ($400.00) but I could never find out more than 1980, lot of 500 from one of my contacts from when I was in the biz (and I was too cheap to spring for the letter). So just a few weeks ago I was able to Google a wealth of information and found it valued at several thousand. Happy happy-Joy Joy, to THR I go! So I started putting some of my other guns through Google, only to discover the recall of my 4" 624! I do my own smithing and had rounded the butt, cut the barrel back to 3 1/2" and fashioned a combat fixed sight out of aluminum bar-stock. The prospect of losing it really upset me but I kept my fingers crossed and when Paul Remillard of S&W gave me a DOB of 2 weeks after the bad batch's cutoff date, I was a happy camper!
Th next to last was the .32, I've always admired the K-32 but thought this to be just a run of the mill Smith with a value of a couple of hundred at best...
I just wish I knew more about it, where my Uncle got it for one thing. He was a Chief Warrant Officer during the war and saw action but he never spoke of anything he did or saw and may have picked the .32 up overseas. The letter will answer that. The site says after Nov. 1st they're accepting but Paul said sometime in 2009. I asked for a clarification on the date and will post when I know something more concrete.
I Have one more gun to research, a Steyr Model S 375 H&H with a twist, it's an uncatalogued 20' CARBINE! Steyr can only tell me it was a special run...
The adventure continues! This sure beats checking on my 401k!
Thanks again for everyone's help, it feels like family here.

Old Fuff
October 27, 2008, 09:20 PM
towhead:

I side with the guy at El Paso Saddlery - good outfit by the way ... :D

And to think (sniff) that I'm not worth $50.00 (SOB!).

You measure the barrel from the front of the cylinder to the end of the muzzle, so I think that 3 1/2" is likely correct.

Looks to me like you have a Smith & Wesson .32 1903 Hand Ejector, 3rd. Model.

The 3rd. Model variant as made between 1911 and 1942, within a serial number range running from 263,001 to 536,684. After World War Two it became the Model 30 in 1957. I suspect the revolver in question was made during the middle 1920's.

It was made on Smith & Wesson's I-frame, which was similar in size to today's J-frame, but about 3/8" shorter, and the cylinder was only 1.750" long - 6 shot, chambered in .32 S&W Long. Standard barrel lengths were 3 1/4, 4 1/4 and 6 inches. Regular finishes were blue or nickel plate, with nickel being very popular. The stocks are not plastic, but a hard rubber material called gutta percha.

The old El Paso Saddlery Co., which dates back to the 19th century, made a lot of holsters for the little .32 S&W Hand Ejector, but the new guys may have never heard of it. They may or may not have a pattern, but I'm sure they'll do the best that they can.

Anyway, I hope that this answer is worth the money you paid to get it. :D

Oh, and welcome to The High Road - but be aware we kid around a little bit. ;)

towhead
October 27, 2008, 10:09 PM
Fuff,

Thanks!

Fifty dollars is only the half of it. S&W has a looooong waiting period it seems. Time is money as "they" say. So really really Thank You!

Did I mention Thanks!?

All the best!

Ed

towhead
October 28, 2008, 08:40 PM
Old Fuff,

I'm baaaaaack....

Another day, another dilemma.

A line from your post above,

"They may or may not have a pattern"

was prophetic.

They DO NOT have a pattern.

I guess my next question is predictable,

"Any ideas WHO might be able to make a holster for an "I" frame S&W?"

Old Fuff
October 29, 2008, 09:16 AM
I was afraid of that.... :(

Exactly what kind of holster are you looking for, and how do you expect it will be used? Is fancy tooled leather an issue, or just a plain ordinary one? Safety strap or not?

Help me out with a description... :)

towhead
October 29, 2008, 09:52 AM
Fuff,

Just a "plain old holster". Leather but nothing fancy. It will probably never be worn on a belt. More than likely will spend its years in a center console compartment, under a seat, etc.
My father just doesn't want the bare gun lying around. But I would say he wants something that is accessible quickly.
I was gonna order the "crossdraw" style holster from El Paso Saddlery.
Thanks again for your help.

(Update: Fuff, I went with a J-frame holster from El Paso. I'm sure it'll be fine. Thanks again.)

skeptiq
November 14, 2008, 08:44 AM
I am very pleased to be able to find such knowledgable folks!!! I have one for you guys and would be most appreciative if you experts could shed some light on a S&W pistol that was inherited from my father when he passed away. It has what appears to be mother of pearl handles. Here is the info stamped that I can see:

The barrel is stamped: 32 Long CTG
The handle is stamped: 97831
Patent Dates on barrel are: March 27, 1894 - August 4, 1896 - December 22, 1896 - October 8, 1901 - December 17, 1901 - February 8, 1906

The picture is awful, taken with my cell phone this morning, but at least it should give you an idea of what it looks like.

Basically what I am looking for is it's age, model, rarity, and approximate value. I know there are some major issues with the pistol (some pitting, rust, etc). I do not plan on selling the gun, but would like to have it added to home owners. Also, it appears to be pretty old and I would like to know if it's possible to restore something like this. This gun has great sentimental value to me as it was my fathers.

Thanks in advance!
Ben

http://www.current.net/skeptiq/pics/gun2.jpg

skeptiq
November 14, 2008, 09:17 AM
Regarding my post above... I went back and looked at the yoke, and here is the number stamped there: 50287

Thanks again!
Ben

thumper1977
December 29, 2008, 03:08 PM
My father in law has a 32 long ctg, serial # 157589, nickle or chrome, 3"barrel guessing, walnut diamond grip, hinge # 5064, fixed sights, 6 shot, pat#mar 27th 94, aug 4th 96, dec 22nd 98, oct 8th 01, dec 17th 01, feb 6th 06, sep 14th 09 he is wanting to know a little about it because it came from his father, date and value approx.

Old Fuff
December 29, 2008, 05:20 PM
skeptiq:

Darn! You may have been missed. Sorry 'bout that. :o

Anyway, you have a Smith & Wesson .32 1903 Hand Ejector, 4th Change.

These were manufactured in or around 1910, within a serial number range running from 96,126 to 102,500. Standard barrel lengths were 3 1/4, 4 1/4 and 6 inches. Cataloged finishes were blue or nickel plate. The 6-shot cylinder was chambered to use .32 S&W Long cartridges. Standard stocks were made from black hard-rubber, but it appears that in your case they were replaced with mother-of-pearl.

Given it's condition, it is only worth about $150 to $200 on the open market, but of course much more to you. It could be restored, but the cost would exceed the value of the gun if it was done right. Older revolvers were carried and used, and what you see is honest wear. I wouldn't worry about it. If you want more precise information I suggest you have the gun "lettered" by Smith & Wesson. This is how you go about it:

Given this gun's history within your family, I suggest that you get it "lettered." To do so you will need a snapshot of the gun, a full description including the serial number on the butt, and a check in the amount of $50.00 made out to Smith & Wesson. In exchange the company's historian, Roy G. Jinks, will research the original records (which are not computerized by the way) and send you a letter containing the details of what he finds.

This comprehensive document will contain an overview of the model’s history, followed by the details of your particular gun. This usually includes the caliber, barrel length, finish, and the exact date it was shipped from the factory, and to what distributor or dealer. If there are any special features they will be listed too. This information is often invaluable to both you and future generations.

Additional information on a historical letter will be found at the Smith & Wesson company website at:

http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CustomContentDisplay?storeId=10001&catalogId=11101&content=25301&sectionId=10504

Old Fuff
December 29, 2008, 05:35 PM
thumper1977:

Your Father in Law has a Smith & Wesson .32 1903 Hand Ejector, 5th change.

These were made between 1910 and 1917, within a serial number range running from 102,501 to around 263,000. Standard barrel lengths were 3 1/4, 4 1/4 and 6 inches. (Measure the barrel from the front cylinder face to the end of the muzzle). Cataloged finishes were blue or nickel plate. The 6-shot cylinder was chambered to use .32 S&W Long cartridges. Standard stocks were made from black hard-rubber. Walnut stocks are a bit unusual, unless they are square at the bottom and wrap around the frame where the serial number is stamped. This is a case where a picture would help. Value would depend on its condition.

thumper1977
December 30, 2008, 07:18 PM
old fuff here are a few pics that i took with my phone a couple of days ago and just sent them to my computer so that they could be attached for you to get a better idea of what my father in law has and a guestimate of what it is worth would be nice, plus i am hoping he will give it to me i think it would make a nice conceal to carry piece as oppossed to my p95 and thanks for all your help!!!! And i assume that it is a 31/2 barrel

Old Fuff
December 30, 2008, 08:57 PM
Well a picture can tell you a lot... :)

First it confirms my original identification, and the barrel should be 3 1/4 from the front of the cylinder to the end of the muzzle.

The walnut stocks are newer then the revolver, and likely date from the 1930's to as late as the middle 1940's. I also believe the pistol was nickel plated after it left the factory. The clue is that the hammer and trigger appear to be nickel plated, where factory nickeled guns had color case-hardened hammers and triggers. But given the quality of the picture (which isn't all that bad) and bounce from the flash, I could be mistaken.

If the bore and chambers are O.K. and there are no mechanical problems I would value it around $275 - $325. The stocks themselves could be worth $75.00 or more to a collector looking for a pair to fit a gun in his/her collection. If the gun was refinished that would lessen the value to a collector, but not necessarily a shooter. They are easy guns to carry, and very accurate. You may be surprised.

pacefe
January 19, 2009, 06:20 PM
Hi,
maybe you can help me.

My gun has stamped on the barrel 32 long cgt.
SN is 30788, stamped below barrel, back of cilinder and under the grip.
Barrel is 2 and 1/2 inches long.

Regards and thanks in advance,
Pablo

HammerheadNC
March 9, 2009, 06:47 PM
I have a 32 CTG from my grandfather. I cannot find any numbers other than serial 102xxx. I check the smith and wesson history link but it says make sure it is a genuine s&w. I am attaching pics to verify. Higher resolution pics can be seen on flickr http://www.flickr.com/photos/hammerhead_72/sets/72157614958993355/

Radagast
March 9, 2009, 07:25 PM
HammerheadNC: You have a .32 S&W safety hammerless 2nd model. Also known as a lemon squeezer or New Departure.
It was manufactured between 1902 & 1909 in the serial number range 91418 to 170000.
Caliber is .32 S&W, not .32 S&W long.

Value per the Standard Catalog of S&W is around $235, but check the online auction sights to get a more current picture of value.

Radagast
March 9, 2009, 07:27 PM
Pacefe, is your gun a swing out cylinder or a top break variety? Is it marked with a trade mark such as the S&W monogram or the Colt pony? Does it have any patent dates or an address stamped on it? Any of the above will help identify it.

HammerheadNC
March 10, 2009, 06:19 PM
Thanks for the quick response!!

lifesaver
April 7, 2009, 04:53 PM
Have a Smith and Weson 32 winchester CTG 6" hand ejector,
Walnut Checkered grips with gold Emblem butt kind of flares at bottom, 5 digit SN#51XXX Last Date on Barrel looks like Sept. 14 08 or 09. can anyone help me with this.

Radagast
April 7, 2009, 07:23 PM
lifesaver: You have a .32-20 Hand Ejector Model of 1905 3rd Change Caliber .32-20 Winchester, NOT .32 S&W.
These were manufactured between 1909 & 1915 in the serial number raneg 45201-65700. In very good condition the Standard Catalog of S&W gave a value of $425.00 in 2006, in excellent condition $850.00 and add 50% to 100% if fitted with target sights.

The barrel patent dates were supposedly deleted for this model, but S&W don't believe in waste, so old marked barrel stocks would have been used up rather than thrown out.

shandibfd
April 5, 2010, 09:48 PM
can anyone help me figure out around when this gun was made?
32 long ctg barrel is 3 1/4 in

on top of the barrel it says
smith&wesson springfield mass.usa
pat'd april 9.89.march 27.94 may 21.95 aug.4.20.1896.dec.22.1896 oct.4.1896.oct.8.1901.dec.17.1901.sept.2.1902

handle number is 9866

number under barrel is 5651

grips are not orriginal

any help is appreciated
thank you

Old Fuff
April 5, 2010, 10:30 PM
Posting the patent dates was very helpful.

Anyway you have a Smith & Wesson .32 Hand Ejector, Model of 1903.

These were made between 1903 and '04 within a serial number range running from 1 to 19,425. I would make an easy bet that your revolver, which is an early one, was made during 1903.

6-shot cylinder chambered in .32 S&W Long. Standard barrel lengths were 3 1/4, 4 1/4 and 6 inches. Measure from the front cylinder face to the end of the muzzle. Standard finishes were blue or nickel plate with a color case-hardened hammer & trigger. Stocks were made from black hard rubber which is sometimes mistaken for plastic.

If you had ordered it from Sears Roebuck when it was new it would have cost $12.00 plus postage. :)

shandibfd
April 5, 2010, 10:34 PM
thank you so much for the information. it was very helpfull yes it is 3 1/4. and the tint is blue also maybe a round about of price for the diferent conditions?

W.E.G.
April 5, 2010, 10:52 PM
So long as we are having fun with all-things-.32, I'll toss one in.

32-20

Serial number: 45369

I'm told its 1905 3rd Change Model. Made between 1909-1915.
If there is a way to pin down the exact year without sending a check to S&W, I'd be much obliged.

Nickel finish

http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd7/rkba2da/pistol%20pics/32-20/DSCN6549smaller.jpg

They don't make 'em like this no more.

http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd7/rkba2da/pistol%20pics/32-20/hammer-trigger-searsmall.jpg

Old Fuff
April 5, 2010, 11:20 PM
Short of spending the reasonable $50.00 fee to have the non-computerized original records checked it's next to impossible to exactly date an early Smith & Wesson.

Why???

Because they would make frames, serial number them, and then put them away... :uhoh:

When they needed to make them into guns - sometimes literally years later - they would pull the frames out of inventory, but not necessarily the oldest ones first, or in any numerical order. :banghead:

Sometimes you can narrow things down by looking at certain features that were introduced at a particular time, but this isn't a sure thing either.

Anyway the stocks on your revolver date from about 1910 to about 1920. Shortly after the 3rd. change was introduced at "around" serial number 45, 201 the patent dates were moved from the side of the barrel to the top.

So Gun Detective Fuff would bet that your gun was made around 1909 or '10, but only Roy Jinks at S&W would know (or be able to find out) for sure. ;)

Tony Mendonça
April 6, 2010, 02:33 AM
Hello! My name is Tony and I write from Brazil.
First sorry for bad english, but I want to congratulate you for the great forum!
I received an inheritance from Smith & Wesson gun from my grandfather and I describe it:
Smith & Wesson 32 long CTG, 6 shots
Patents in the barrel: feb. 6 06; Sept. 14 09; 29 Dec. 14 and, in the "butt" (grip) June 5 1917.
The pipe carries the information: up: Smith & Wesson Springfield Mass. USA, on the left to who wields the gun with his right hand: Smith & Wesson, and across 32 long CTG.
501,735 number written inside the "butt" (grip) on the drum where the bullets are going and staying in the pipe that is covered by the system for the disposal of the cartridge.
Number 24,112 in the hinge barrel and also in part what it covers.
the length of the barrel seems to be 6 inches.
If possible I would like to obtain information about this weapon, because in my country we have no suitable material.
If you need more information feel free to ask
Again sorry for poor English.:banghead:
Thank you for your help.

Radagast
April 6, 2010, 09:04 AM
Tony Mendonca:
You have a S&W .32 Hand Ejector Third Model manufactured between 1917 & 1942 in the serial range 263001 to 536684. Heat treating of cylinders began in 1920 around serial number 321000 Guns in the 509,000 serial range shipped in 1929 so your gun probably dates to between 1920 & 1929.

These guns were built on the small I frame, modern grips may not fit as they are usually made for the slightly larger J frame. After World War II production resumed and in 1957 the .32 Hand Ejector was designated the Model 30.

Tony Mendonça
April 6, 2010, 11:39 AM
Thanks for your help!
So it seems that was manufactured before the second world war.
Do you have any idea of the value of this weapon in historical terms and trade?
Here in Brazil, according to a story of my family were very few imported weapons like this and there is a certain historical value, but did not have a single concrete information about it before moving here!
Thanks again!

Radagast
April 6, 2010, 04:33 PM
It has no special value, as over half a million guns were made on this size frame over a 60 year period. In the USA value could be between $90 & $350 depending upon condition.

Tony Mendonça
April 6, 2010, 05:03 PM
I understand that's what I thought, due to high numbers.
I can not say here in Brazil many came to the point of making them rare, especially with our system of restriction in weapons acquisition. So now you have the idea, took over a year to get the documentation for the legalization of this weapon.
Another question related to Mr. Roy Jinks and the service he provides to the historical charts, you would have a contact email so I can ask if he would meet a request of Brazil, because, as I have great affection for the gun, I am interested in contacting him for an evaluation.
Thanks for your help!

Old Fuff
April 6, 2010, 07:46 PM
The information concerning historical letters of authentication from Smith & Wesson’s historian, Roy G. Jinks can be obtained from the link listed below.

In exchange for a $50.00 research fee (make any check out to Smith & Wesson, not Mr. Jinks) he will search through the company’s original records until he finds your particular revolver. He will then send you an official letter which usually includes:

A short history of the revolver model’s background.

What the barrel length, caliber/cartridge, finish and stocks were, as well as the exact date it was shipped from the factory – and to what distributor, dealer or individual – as whatever the case may be.

Because of the demand for this service, expect that an answer may take several months - but you will get an answer.

http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CustomContentDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10001&catalogId=10001&content=25301&sectionId=10504

Tony Mendonça
April 6, 2010, 08:34 PM
thanks guys!
You helped me a lot in my research that will help keep the memory of my grandfather alive!
So you can post a picture of the gun for you to see and assess their conditions.
I'll contact Smith & Wesson to see the possibilities of the letter!
Thanks again!

W.E.G.
April 6, 2010, 11:37 PM
Thanks for your interest and help Old Fuff!

shandibfd
April 7, 2010, 11:53 AM
i was woundering what my mod of 1903 was worth and if you could tell me more about them

Radagast
April 8, 2010, 04:33 AM
shandibfd:
The .32 Hand Ejector was the first gun manufactured by S&W with a swing out cylinder, starting in 1896. Earlier top break guns automatically ejected the cartridges when opened, with the hand ejector you had to press the ejector rod yourself, hence the name.

The model of 1903 was the second version of the .32 Hand Ejector, the most noticeable difference being the locking lug on the underside of the barrel, which the first model lacked.

Your gun lacks the modern hammer block safety and the cylinder has not been heat treated, so it would be prudent to refrain from shooting hot hand loads and to leave the chamber under the hammer empty.

In 2006 the Standard Catalog of S&W gave the following values:
As New in Box: $700, Excellent Plus $385, Very Good $315, Good $275, Fair $165, Poor $90.

Note these prices are indicative only - the value is what a real buyer is willing to pay. As the .32 S&W Long is pretty much an obsolete round for personal defence you would need to find a collector to realize a higher value.

We can't tell you the condition of your gun and hence approximate value without good resolution photos.

Kazion
July 10, 2010, 09:33 PM
First, how have I missed this site for so long?


Second, just acquired a S&W .32 in a in a hardware exchange - an old celeron laptop for the pistol in question, even trade :)

What I know:
It was stored in a plastic bag on a boat for decades.
It's seen better days, with most of the bluing gone.
It's still ROCK solid, tight action, and smooth operation, though I've not fired it yet.

barrel reads " 32 long ctg", and the last date, I believe (badly worn!) is "Dec 17 01"
barrel length 4 1/4"
Serial on the round-ish butt is "147", with a matching serial on cylinder face
serial number inside hinge is "11525", also matching serial on hinge.
Double action
black (dark green?) checkered grips, probably rubber
pinned front sight

It feels good in my hands, though small, and has good balance. Other than the previously mentioned wear on the finish, you could use this unit as the poster child for "They don't make them like they used to".

Any info on manufactured period and usable ammo if still available, would be most appreciated, and I've started the process to get my letter from Mr. Jinks.

Thanks for your time and efforts....


edited to add barrel length

Old Fuff
July 10, 2010, 10:30 PM
Well you have me hopelessly "confoosed"... again... :confused:

Your description and serial number match Smith & Wesson's first hand ejector revolver, and the first one chambered in .32 S&W Long. That would be the .32 model 1896 hand ejector / Model I, First model.

Some 19,712 were made from 1896 to 1903, starting at serial #1. If the serial number you posted is correct it should have been made in 1896.

On the other hand the patent dates should be stamped on the cylinder, not the barrel, and the last one should be July 16, 1895.

The Dec. 17, 1901 date does appear on later models of the same revolver.

A picture would be a great help in confirming a questionable identification.

Kazion
July 10, 2010, 11:31 PM
Pics attached...

patent marks ARE on barrel, none to be seen on cylinder.

Ah, the joys of a challenge, eh? :)

mnrivrat
July 11, 2010, 01:05 AM
Looks to be a version of the 1903 HE which would mean the serial number may have some digits that are hard to read on the butt.

The correct ammo is the .32 S&W, and/or the .32 S&W long cartridges. In resaonably good mechanical condition it should fire either of these with no concern, as both are rather low pressure rounds.

I have a 1903 HE 5th change in cosmeticaly poor condition but it shoots just fine. These are not highly collectable guns in the condition yours is in, the value is about $150 . The grips are hard rubber , and this is an "I" frame gun.

Old Fuff
July 11, 2010, 10:23 AM
Kazion:

You have a S&W .32 Hand Ejector, Model of 1903. Between 1903 and 1904 they made 19,425, starting again at serial number 1. Your revolver was apparently a very early one, made during 1903. It is possible the pinned front sight was done at the factory on special order, but I think it was an after market modification because the pin isn't centered in the lug. Standard barrel lengths were 3 1/4, 4 1/4 and 6 inches. Cataloged finishes were blue or nickel plate, with color-casehardened hammers and triggers. Stocks are molded black hard rubber. They were individually fitted to the gun, and are serial numbered on the inside. The patent dates are correct for that model.

Six shot, chambered in .32 S&W Long, and ammunition is available - at least by special order if not in stock. Do take the revolver's age into consideration and only use standard loads. Because of the condition I wouldn't value it over $150. In better shape it would be worth 3 times that.

Obviously pictures are a big help in doubtful cases...

Kazion
July 11, 2010, 02:39 PM
As I said before, your time and efforts are much appreciated folks.

ZBill
July 18, 2010, 12:48 PM
If possible, I would appreciate learning the manufacture date and model name for a S&W hand ejector 3 1/4 inch barrel, 32 SW Long. Nickle finish with hard rubber black grips.

Serial Number 870XX on grip butt and also on the rear of cylinder.

4 lines of text on top of barrel with last date July 7 1903.

Original (?) box is reddish brown with "Smith and Wesson 32 Hand Ejector 3 1/4 Inch" label on the outer box lid as well and printed on the inside box top.

Thanks to all for this great information resources. Regards, Bill

Radagast
July 19, 2010, 02:25 AM
ZBill:
You have a .32 Hand Ejector Model of 1903 2nd Change manufactured between 1906 & 1909 in the serial range 51127 & 95500.
The box adds to the guns value to a collector, and if the gun is unfired I suggest you leave it that way. in 2006 the Standard catalog of S&W gave a value of $385 in excellent condition, $700 for as new in box.

If you enjoyed reading about "S & W 32 long CTG??" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!