Philly CCW holder takes on two muggers


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Preacherman
December 26, 2005, 04:45 PM
From the Philadelphia Daily News (http://www.philly.com/mld/dailynews/13478925.htm):

Posted on Sat, Dec. 24, 2005

PGW worker shoots teen robber

By SIMONE WEICHSELBAUM & DAVE DAVIES

A Philadelphia Gas Works field worker shot and wounded one of two teenagers who held him up at gunpoint in Southwest Philadelphia yesterday, police said.

The veteran PGW worker gave up his wallet and cash to the teens, police said, but decided to reach for his own weapon after he saw one of the teens "cock back the hammer of the gun."

The PGW worker managed to quickly fish his own gun out of his jacket.

"He fired three shots," said police Lt. John Walker. One of the shots struck one of the 17-year olds in the leg, but he managed to flee with his companion.

Roofers working nearby told police which direction the youths ran in, and two suspects were soon arrested.

The teen who was shot was admitted to Children's Hospital of Philadelphia, where he was listed in stable condition.

Police didn't release the names of the suspects, who are juveniles, or the name of the PGW employee, who had a permit for his weapon.

The incident happened at 65th and Buist late yesterday morning. Police said the two teens approached the PGW worker as he went to the rear of his truck to get some tools.

PGW spokesman Doug Oliver said company policy prohibits employees from having "unauthorized weapons" at any PGW work area.

While Oliver said it appears the employee violated the policy, officials don't plan to address that issue right away.

"Our first concern is with our employee," Oliver said. "This was a very traumatic experience. It's not every day you find yourself in a position where you feel like your life is about to end."

Oliver also declined to release the employee's name, who he said has been with PGW for 17 years.

The teens will face robbery, theft and weapons charges.

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zahc
December 26, 2005, 04:48 PM
Man, it's too bad so many of them survive. The muggers I mean.

rbernie
December 26, 2005, 05:12 PM
PGW spokesman Doug Oliver said company policy prohibits employees from having "unauthorized weapons" at any PGW work area.

While Oliver said it appears the employee violated the policy, officials don't plan to address that issue right away.
The shame of it all is that it's highly likely, IMO, that the poor PGW schlub is going to lose his job as soon as the dust settles.. <sigh>

RavenVT100
December 26, 2005, 05:57 PM
The teen who was shot was admitted to Children's Hospital of Philadelphia, where he was listed in stable condition.

Yet another child whose life was forever impacted by Gun Violence.

7.62x54r
December 26, 2005, 05:58 PM
And what would the company have said if he was shot and killed and the van was stolen.:banghead:

yonderway
December 26, 2005, 06:20 PM
And what would the company have said if he was shot and killed and the van was stolen.:banghead:

Just a call to HR to post a job opening.

That's a rough neighborhood over there. If I had to work out that way, you're damned right I'd be packing on the job.

Glockman17366
December 26, 2005, 08:30 PM
I'm sure this guy will be fired for violating company policy soon.
Damn shame, but that's the way it's going to be...
If this incident had happened elsewhere in PA, the employeee may have had a chance at keeping his job.

mountainclmbr
December 26, 2005, 09:09 PM
New Year's resolution for self: Remember, lost life much worse than lost job!

Standing Wolf
December 26, 2005, 10:24 PM
...what would the company have said if he was shot and killed and the van was stolen.

I'm sure the company has insurance to cover the van, and possibly the cost of replacing the employee, as well.

As far as I'm concerned, jobs are a lot easier to replace than lives.

Hardtarget
December 26, 2005, 10:34 PM
It probably won't help but I think he should find a pro-gun/self defense lawyer and start planning. These " no self defense policies" of companies has gotten under my skin. They don't even think about the safty of an employ except how it might involve a law suit. The courts and legal system needs to put a stop to these suits from the criminals (or their families) that revictimize a person for defending themselves.
Mark.

Firethorn
December 27, 2005, 01:22 AM
Why is it that large amounts of money is worth more armed protection than the life of a pizza delivery driver?

ka50
December 27, 2005, 01:51 AM
I'm sure this guy will be fired for violating company policy soon.
Damn shame, but that's the way it's going to be...
If this incident had happened elsewhere in PA, the employeee may have had a chance at keeping his job.

Screw the job

1911 guy
December 27, 2005, 08:57 AM
Ohio allows property owners to post no carry signs, also. My place of business is one of these, yet I carry in the shop one night a week. Sunday nights I open up and there are only three of us in the entire plant. You bet I carry, especially in that neighborhood. I decided long ago that if I ever needed to reveal I had a pistol, I'd give up my job to keep my life and my co-workers. I do hope things work out for this guy, though.

El Tejon
December 27, 2005, 09:35 AM
If this story is correct, let's hope the little thugs get waived to adult court and face years and years of extrajudicial punishment in the showers of the department of correction.:)

Colt
December 27, 2005, 11:19 AM
I'm in PA, too, and my company's policy states "Employess may not possess illegal and/or unauthorized weapons while on company property."

The way I see it, my carry gun is legal for ownership in my state, and the county sherriff has authorized me to carry it. The policy doesn't stipulate who must authorize possession of the weapon. A stretch, maybe, but I don't care. If I lost my job, I'd have another next week.

What's funny is that the HR office thinks the policy will keep people from "going postal." As if a single line of a 10-page company policy would make a nutball think "Oh, well then, I guess I can't go kill my fellow employees. The company policy prohibits weapons in the office."

I'm with those who posted above. I'd rather find a new job, than find myself unarmed when someone goes nuts. I've been carrying every workday for over 5 years, and never been "made."

thatguy
December 27, 2005, 05:05 PM
Apparently it's company policy for employees to go into rough areas where they face very real dangers as unarmed helpless victims? Yes, I can really tell that their first concern is for the welfare of the employees. Bull.

jeepmor
December 27, 2005, 05:13 PM
Yet another child whose life was forever impacted by Gun Violence.


Ummm, the teens perpetrated the gun violence, not the PGW worker! The worker went along with the mugging until he felt his life was in jeopardy. There is no report of said worker brandishing his weapon to escalate, only for survival. What's a liberal statement like that doing in response to this particular article. I don't feel sorry for the teens, they know the risks now, and will likely have lots of time to think about it too.

"PGW spokesman Doug Oliver said company policy prohibits employees from having "unauthorized weapons" at any PGW work area."

I would have to argue that it was an "authorized" weapon because the gentlemen "does" possess a CCW permit. He was "authorized" by the local authorities, fulfilling a legal obligation to the state, not his employer. Hopefully the employer and the authorities will agree on this position and allow this employee to keep his job after some counseling.

The poor bloke will probably lose his job, but he can get another job, hard as that may be, he's alive because of his CCW, company policy with him or not.

jeepmor

Standing Wolf
December 27, 2005, 05:28 PM
Why is it that large amounts of money is worth more armed protection than the life of a pizza delivery driver?

Pizza drivers are considered a dime a dozen. They can be replaced very quickly at very little expense.

Many companies regard employees as liabilities rather than assets, and are much more deeply concerned about law suits resulting from employees's behavior than injuries or deaths sustained by employees.

SRFL
December 27, 2005, 05:33 PM
And what would the company have said if he was shot and killed and the van was stolen.:banghead:

....and that gun laws need to be tightened to get guns off the streets...to protect our children of course....sheesh. I hate it when companies only see the bottom (dollar) line.

If I were a lawyer (and if he needed representation), I would work for this brave citizen pro bono.

TexasRifleman
December 27, 2005, 05:35 PM
Ummm, the teens perpetrated the gun violence, not the PGW worker!

Right, that's why the post you replied to is called sarcasm.

The anti's always use these statistics of minors with gunshot wounds to make it sound like "the children are suffering".

Don't kid yourself into thinking this particular "child" won't end up in the same stats used against us.

In the strictest sense, this "child" is one of the "many" lives impacted by gun violence each year. What you WON'T read is how many of these "children" are the perpetrators of violence. That stat wouldn't help their cause.

Mongo the Mutterer
December 27, 2005, 06:04 PM
It probably won't help but I think he should find a pro-gun/self defense lawyer and start planning. These " no self defense policies" of companies has gotten under my skin..... me 2.

El T or someone should take on the "man" in a case like this if the hero is fired or disciplined. I'm a businessman and I understand the liability that the company could have in a situation like this, but...

1. why was this guy working alone, in what members here say is a "bad area"? It seems negligent on the company's part. (one thought... do the POLICE patrol alone in the area??? Probably not. Why should this utility guy be hung out?)

2. the guy showed great restraint in his actions, cooperation with the little neer do wells until he felt his life was in danger. If he is disciplined by his employer for his actions, they need to be his permanent benefactor while he relaxes for the rest of his life with his feet in the sand.

Enough said. We need to defend this guy if he gets the shaft.

Jim K
December 27, 2005, 10:02 PM
Has the Violence Policy Center filed suit on behalf of the muggers yet, or are they waiting until after the New Year?

Jim

Sheldon J
December 28, 2005, 02:54 PM
The only bad thing about this is the :cuss: little :cuss: perf's :cuss: will be added to the kids shot list at the VPC.

Baba Louie
December 28, 2005, 03:31 PM
...but decided to reach for his own weapon after he saw one of the teens "cock back the hammer of the gun."
The PGW worker managed to quickly fish his own gun out of his jacket.Makes me shudder to think about drawing from a jacket (?pocket?) on a gun already drawn, charged and ready for action when things go to "Slo-Mo"
"He fired three shots," said police Lt. John Walker. One of the shots struck one of the 17-year olds in the leg,1 in 3? Practice practice practice.
Should PGW decide to terminate him, here's hoping he hires the meanest, smartest attorney possible and gets some public media time on corporate responsibility concerning employee safety (or lack thereof). A positive outcome with large cash outlay from empolyer could help change other employer's corporate thinking; workmen's comp insurance premiums notwithstanding...
Well, a boy can dream. Can't he?

SJG26
December 28, 2005, 04:42 PM
[QUOTE=Should PGW decide to terminate him, here's hoping he hires the meanest, smartest attorney possible and gets some public media time on corporate responsibility concerning employee safety (or lack thereof). A positive outcome with large cash outlay from empolyer could help change other employer's corporate thinking; workmen's comp insurance premiums notwithstanding...
[/QUOTE]


PA is an "Employ-at-will" state-------good luck taking termination to court..............

Zundfolge
December 28, 2005, 05:11 PM
Police didn't release the names of the suspects, who are juveniles, or the name of the PGW employee, who had a permit for his weapon.
PGW spokesman Doug Oliver said company policy prohibits employees from having "unauthorized weapons" at any PGW work area.

Sounds to me like his weapon WAS "authorized" by the state of Pennsylvania.

Mongo the Mutterer
December 28, 2005, 08:20 PM
PA is an "Employ-at-will" state-------good luck taking termination to court..............So is MO. Check the FEDERAL employment laws.

m0ntels
December 28, 2005, 09:49 PM
I'm in PA, too, and my company's policy states "Employess may not possess illegal and/or unauthorized weapons while on company property."

I started a new job a few weeks ago and was going through the new manual to see if they mentioned weapons at all. The closest thing that was mentioned was that all employees are responsible for the safety of each other, and of the building itself. I read it out loud while my brother was in the room and I told him there it was in writing...work wants me to carry! :D

He tried to say that wasnt what they meant by that, but my counterpoint was that only what was written is what counted. Now to find a nice business casual style holster...

Randy

NineseveN
December 28, 2005, 11:11 PM
Glad he survived, hope he doesn't get the screws too bad at work...I'd hire a lawyer anyway, can't hurt.

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