war for hearts and minds


James T Thomas
December 26, 2005, 10:12 PM
I was reading another site earlier, and the subject was a cop who was killed by a "Vietnam" veteran with an AK-47. Alleged.

I am a V.Vet, and still carry the bad feelings that so much of our country held towards the returning home veterans at the time. You younger readers may be aware of some of the protest history, but the real feeling of it is very personal, at least to me.

Remember the Clint Eastwood movie, "Dirty Harry, The Enforcer?" The criminals were "Vietnam Veterans," who wore the pigtail sweatbands and Army -Navy store jackets, etc. Although just Hollywood fiction, the film did depict some of the sentiment of the public from the time. For years afterward, one vet after another was going beserk, committing crims all across the U.S. as headlined in the NEWS.

Now it turns out that most of these vets, were not legitimate at all, or the very few who had been there were often rear eschelon troops; clerk -typists, supply, that kind of thing. There were a few; very few, who were front line troops who had actually seen combat.
So it is with the story of the "Vet" who killed the cop with an AK.
He may have been a vet, but I will reserve judgement, until his background is legitimately verified.

As the current soldiers return home from the Iraq war, do not be suprised to read from time to time (the media has not changed from what I can see),
how this vet or that vet has done some horrendous crime. You can count on also viewing or hearing a supplamenatary article on the President or VP or Sect. of Defense, and how decietful, war promoting; well you know, how they will be made to appear by some "producer."

And please, give the older Vietnam Vets the benefit of the doubt when you come across some aricle like I read tonight. We were not some rag bag sloppy bums like so many of the war movies depict. Most were well disciplined and hard fighting soldiers like the brave young troops our nation is now
producing again.

God bless America!

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Standing Wolf
December 26, 2005, 10:43 PM
There were plenty of "Vet Goes Berserk!" stories after World War II, and it wouldn't surprise me in the least to learn there were plenty after World War I, the Spanish-American War, the Civil War, and...

Newspaper editors do whatever they can to pump up headlines so they're more likely to grab readers.

All that saidô, our nation's Viet Nam veterans have been treated with uncommon shabbiness. I suspect the foot soldiers have been blamed for the damned foolishness of the generals and politicians. Had that war been left to the foot soldiers, it probably would have been won.

December 27, 2005, 12:16 AM
FWIW, you all have my thanks and respect. :)

1911 guy
December 27, 2005, 08:06 AM
I agree with Standing Wolf. Our guys coming home from Viet Nam got the crappy end of the stick. As a vet 30 years after that, I feel an obligation to say "welcome home" to every man I see wearing anything that I.D.'s him as a vet. The look on his face says whether he's a vet or a surplus store commando. I have also refused to join the VFW after the crappy treatment they gave V.N. vets coming home. I've heard too many stories firsthand of them being told they couldn't join because "That wasn't a "real" war". I know times change and most VFW members now are the same men who couldn't join 40 years ago, but I guess I still hold the grudge for family and friends.

December 27, 2005, 11:34 AM
It seemed like every day there was another headline. They all started with "Vietnam Vet" does this or that. It made me want to puke.

Seems like in the early 90's I stopped seeing it so much. I guess all the current journalists on the city desk were too young to remember Vietnam.

Now every once in awhile I still see it, but I guess soon it will be, "Vietnam Vet steals arthritis medicines from pharmacy", or "Vietnam Vet blocks traffic with his walker, city to investigate traffic problem".

I too say welcome home to every Vietnam Vet I recognize. I also thank every other vet and active duty person I see for their service. They deserve our thanks and respect. Ever see the smile on a WWII vet's face when you say thank you? Look for their ballcaps, you'll know them? It makes your day!

Remember, only about 6% of our nations youth fought in Vietnam, and even less are doing it today, versus the much larger 11% of WWII (thought it was more?) Those of you with the freedom to come here and read, or go to church, or buy beer on Sunday (or Saturday) owe it to a veteran.

Oh, and I carried an M16, a Colt .45 and an M79, just to keep this a gun thread. (Also had my own chiefs special under my fatigues just in case)

December 27, 2005, 11:51 AM
Given the number of people serving in the US Armed Forces from 1964-1973,you can only expect a certain number of people to take the wrong path,just the same as they would have without serving.There is also not a doubt in my mind that many "Vietnam Vets" that make the news doing such things might have served but never were in Vietnam or in a combat arms outfit.
Almost to a fault,the vets that I know are good people.My drafted infantryman father who is a retired podiatrist,my uncle the USMC Huey pilot who is now a UMass adminstrator,the former RTO who is the lawyer down the street,my middleschool science and math teachers,my highschool history teacher,my OV-1A pilot parish priest and so on.It's hard to have a stereotype of being an average guy,it's far easier to look at vets as either the negative=detached loon on the news or homeless guy on the offramp or in the positive as the Rolling Thunder biker guy.Your neighbor usually isn't all that interesting until you get talking to him.

December 27, 2005, 11:52 AM
I can remember when you wrote your resume to get a job you wouldn't dare put "Veteran" on it.

Still pisses me off.


December 27, 2005, 11:57 AM
I found the war for hearts and minds tends to get bloody for the guys who have to fight it.
I'm with you bro'
SSG Allen
U.S. Army '82 - '92
Grenada, Panama, Gulf War

1911 guy
December 27, 2005, 12:23 PM
When you got 'em by the "dangly bits", their hearts and minds will follow.

December 27, 2005, 04:24 PM
It's a damn shame what the media did to the veterans of the war in southeast asia. They brainwashed an entire country to turn on theirs sons, boyfriends, husbands and brothers. In the long run. The media killed their own credibility during those years. It's just taken a few decades for the public to realize it. I think they've been trying again with subtlety against with the brave men and woman serving in Iraq and Afganistan, but they know that with the surge of patriotism after 9/11, the majority of the public won't stand for it now so now they're are putting all their energies into the politics.

Since WWII, the media has always had a chip on it's shoulder against the military and they have their own agenda. The generals and political leaders know how to spin the news and protect themselves, so they go after easier targets like the jackels they are.

God bless all of the service men and women who've fought and served for our country. I don't "believe in the cause" for every war we've gotten involved in, but I believe in the honor, courage and sacrifice of those brave citizens who served. You've earned and deserve our gratitude, appreciation and respect.

December 27, 2005, 05:32 PM
I dont always believe that our soldiers are fighting for our freedom. That is not the soldiers fault, that some pencilpusher sent him to bumphuck middle of nowhere. Especially some 18 year old kid for $800.00 a month. But they dutifully go. Our soldiers are mistreated, under paid, and disrespected. My $.02 to all is next time you see a man or woman in uniform, shake their hand and tell them THANK YOU. I do.
(steps off of soapbox)

December 27, 2005, 07:50 PM
My past post about this http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=2083606&postcount=52

December 27, 2005, 07:55 PM
I only spent 4 years in the Air Force ('68 to '72). I remember landing at Travis AFB and going through the San Francisco airport so I could be with my family after 2 years in Japan on my way to Germany. I had to go through the sea of low lifes in the airport who were yelling and throwing things at us. I discovered that my duffle bag made a pretty good equalizer when I finally got pissed enough.

My Dad: the Army, me: Air Force, my brother: Army, one of my sons: Navy. Hopefully my grandson get accepted into Annapolis after he graduates high school.

I have nothing but respect and admiration for our men and women in the American Armed Forces, especially since it's all volunteer. I agree that they are under paid and under appreciated. It's ironic that the people that appreciate the U.S. military are mostly the people in other countries, countries that we have freed and helped. God Bless our miliatry people, all of them, past, present, and future.

The acedemic weasels who go to journalism school and never serve a day in their lives have no idea what the real world out there is like.

REALLY pisses me off.

Sorry about the soap box rant. I'll stop now.

Take care and HAPPY NEW YEAR TO ALL.


December 27, 2005, 08:22 PM
" I've heard too many stories firsthand of them being told they couldn't join because "That wasn't a "real" war"."

How do they figure that? I wasn't alive during the Vietnam era so I don't know what it was like except for the TV version of "Platoon". I think vets deserve help regardless of whether they were in a certain war. My older brother was in line at a store one day & a vet in front of him needed $5.00 or so for his medication. My brother gave him a $10.00 & told him to keep the change. Several vets from Vietnam come in my store. I haven't had any trouble with them. One in particular is so nice, he's the one person I would go to the back room for something & not worry about him swiping something. I mentioned in a previous thread that a ex-marine from Vietnam did some work on my kitchen cabinets. He couldn't have been more polite or hardworking. Even though he was 62, he didn't look a day over 48. Sorry for the rant but it's been my experience that vets aren't all crazy killing psychopaths. Take care fella's.

December 27, 2005, 08:30 PM
I have also refused to join the VFW after the crappy treatment they gave V.N. vets coming home. I've heard too many stories firsthand of them being told they couldn't join because "That wasn't a "real" war".

Not that much has changed.:fire:


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