A Note About Posting Pictures of Guns Etc.......


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cslinger
December 27, 2005, 11:04 PM
Yes I know they are watching but the fact is I am the following.

NRA Member.
Have a Concealed Carry License
Have a Curio and Relic License
Subscribe to a couple gun magazines
Worked as a 911 Dispatcher
Bought many guns using the 4473
Do not want to shoot anybody, do not want to overthrow the government, Do not want to go to war unless it is against water mellons or coke cans.

That being said I am already on every list there most likely is and should "they" come for the guns they are going to know to come knock on my door whether or not I post pictures of my legally obtained firearms.

I don't espouse government overthrow or violence of any sort.
I don't espouse illegal uses of firearms in any way.
I do suggest everybody work within the law.

So what the hell I will and do post pictures of my firearms. If the time comes that "they" want to take them there isn't a whole hell of a lot I can do about it. My fight is to stop them now within the bounds of the law by writing my elected officials, getting new shooters into the sport, educating the masses on what each gun law actually means etc.

No offense but I have no illusions about facing down the combined arms of coordinated assault. Guns are my hobby and are for my and my families self defense no more no less.

Just a random thought.

Chris

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Exposure
December 27, 2005, 11:07 PM
What does "espose" mean?

cslinger
December 27, 2005, 11:15 PM
oooops I meant espouse. I don't advocate, follow etc.

tonytulipz
December 27, 2005, 11:27 PM
Yes I know they are watching but the fact is I am the following.


No offense but I have no illusions about facing down the combined arms of coordinated assault. Guns are my hobby and are for my and my families self defense no more no less.

Just a random thought.

Chris

Nor should you. After you apply for your CCW they have a Watch on you I am sure and Terrorists dont APPLY for gun permits so you are of little threat!

DorGunR
December 27, 2005, 11:32 PM
I've met cslinger.......and besides all the other things he said (which I agree with) he's also a super nice guy.

R.W.Dale
December 27, 2005, 11:36 PM
AMEN!! Finally sombody sane for a change. You my freind have both feet firmly planted on the ground, unlike those of us who are full of the warm gooey brown stuff. The ones who actually think that their "training" and AR15 will pravail againgst swarms of combat boot wearing feds riding in APC's:rolleyes:

MTMilitiaman
December 27, 2005, 11:38 PM
AHhh, group hug!

Seriously though, while we are on the subject, what are the possible implications of posting pictures of privatly owned firearms without taking measures to blot out the serial number? Could this number be used by another private party to find any sort of potentially damaging information, such as that which could lead to identity theft? Or is publicly displaying your serial number relatively harmless unless a viewer has access to the 4473 forms?

Standing Wolf
December 27, 2005, 11:42 PM
Could this number be used by another private party to find any sort of potentially damaging information, such as that which could lead to identity theft?

Unless you're a gun with a serial number, I doubt you have to worry about identity theft. I believe it's conceivable someone could report a gun with your serial number stolen, but a.) you've got the receipt for it, and b.) the fake report would eventually come back to haunt the liar.

P95Carry
December 27, 2005, 11:43 PM
The SN thing is slightly contentious as an issue - me, I play safe and paint em out - no one needs my gun's SN's - simple as that :)

You are on the button Chris - we are all tracked, databased - no escaping it these days.

R.W.Dale
December 27, 2005, 11:45 PM
AHhh, group hug!

Seriously though, while we are on the subject, what are the possible implications of posting pictures of privatly owned firearms without taking measures to blot out the serial number? Could this number be used by another private party to find any sort of potentially damaging information, such as that which could lead to identity theft? Or is publicly displaying your serial number relatively harmless unless a viewer has access to the 4473 forms?


It would be way eaiser and simpler just to use the VIN# from someones automobile to get that kind of info.

Justin
December 28, 2005, 12:18 AM
Chris, whatever you do, don't check out a copy of "Catcher in the Rye" from the library!

:uhoh: ;)

phoglund
December 28, 2005, 12:43 AM
CSlinger,

I pretty closely match your profile...and agree with your assertions as well. Nicely stated.

itgoesboom
December 28, 2005, 12:56 AM
Yes I know they are watching but the fact is I am the following.

NRA Member.
Have a Concealed Carry License
Have a Curio and Relic License
Subscribe to a couple gun magazines
Worked as a 911 Dispatcher
Bought many guns using the 4473
Do not want to shoot anybody, do not want to overthrow the government, Do not want to go to war unless it is against water mellons or coke cans.

That being said I am already on every list there most likely is and should "they" come for the guns they are going to know to come knock on my door whether or not I post pictures of my legally obtained firearms.

I don't espouse government overthrow or violence of any sort.
I don't espouse illegal uses of firearms in any way.
I do suggest everybody work within the law.

So what the hell I will and do post pictures of my firearms. If the time comes that "they" want to take them there isn't a whole hell of a lot I can do about it. My fight is to stop them now within the bounds of the law by writing my elected officials, getting new shooters into the sport, educating the masses on what each gun law actually means etc.

No offense but I have no illusions about facing down the combined arms of coordinated assault. Guns are my hobby and are for my and my families self defense no more no less.

Just a random thought.

Chris

+1000000!

I.G.B.

NineseveN
December 28, 2005, 12:59 AM
Yes I know they are watching but the fact is I am the following.

NRA Member.
Have a Concealed Carry License
Have a Curio and Relic License
Subscribe to a couple gun magazines
Worked as a 911 Dispatcher
Bought many guns using the 4473
Do not want to shoot anybody, do not want to overthrow the government, Do not want to go to war unless it is against water mellons or coke cans.

That being said I am already on every list there most likely is and should "they" come for the guns they are going to know to come knock on my door whether or not I post pictures of my legally obtained firearms.

I don't espouse government overthrow or violence of any sort.
I don't espouse illegal uses of firearms in any way.
I do suggest everybody work within the law.

So what the hell I will and do post pictures of my firearms. If the time comes that "they" want to take them there isn't a whole hell of a lot I can do about it. My fight is to stop them now within the bounds of the law by writing my elected officials, getting new shooters into the sport, educating the masses on what each gun law actually means etc.

No offense but I have no illusions about facing down the combined arms of coordinated assault. Guns are my hobby and are for my and my families self defense no more no less.

Just a random thought.

Chris


+1

Third_Rail
December 28, 2005, 01:06 AM
Your rights end when they tell you that they do? That's a pity.

cslinger
December 28, 2005, 01:33 AM
I've met cslinger.......and besides all the other things he said (which I agree with) he's also a super nice guy.

Gee thanks man. I guess it now goes without saying that DorGunR is the same.

I have just read so many posts lately about the fact that you shouldn't be posting this or that on the internet. Heck the truth is if you are even registered on this site you are on somebody's list. Now obviously I wouldn't go around posting seditious or treasonous things, not that I have any to post, but as far as legal gun pictures go.....................

take that.

All legal, All Semi-Auto, All purchased with 4473s, All kept locked up and the AR's are A2s for God sakes how low speed high drag is that. :scrutiny:
http://www.myfishingpictures.com/img/036202.JPG

nyresq
December 28, 2005, 01:36 AM
(putting aluminum foil hat in place, pulling down window shades and turning on TV for white noise to confuse the surveilance team)....


right on brother!:cuss:


(looking out the windows for the MIB...):D


seriously, The whole serial number thing is an urban ledgend. No one is going to be able to say you stole their guns unless they can show a paper trail all the way back to an FFL transfer from the manufacturer to the private parties. If that was the case there would be alot more scam artists out there reporting guns stolen and having the police hand over "their" guns to them... If you report a gun stolen, the police don't just take your word for it, you need to supply a direct paper trail to get it entered into NCIC.... even if it really is your gun and it was stolen...

cslinger
December 28, 2005, 01:38 AM
...........uh just out of curiosity. What does a black helicopter in whisper mode sound like? Uhh nevermind it was probably just the wind. :D :neener:

wundudnee
December 28, 2005, 01:54 AM
I like the way you think.

I like your EBRs.

And I like pictures and post a lot myself.

Sometimes the paranoia gets so bad it makes me wonder why some folks even post on firearm interest sites. I figure they know I'm a gunnut and that I have probably made a whole bunch of lists. But like Popeye says
"I yam what I yam.":neener:

jtward01
December 28, 2005, 03:30 AM
Christ, I had to get a security clearance to get access to both HQ CENTCOM and HQ SOCOM, various NASA facilities, plus meetings with Gen. Shalikashvili, Gen. Colin Powell and appearances by Bush Sr. & Jr., Reagan and Queen Elizabeth II of England. My first security clearance was in 1971 when I worked for an ambulance service in Miamisburg, Ohio. Monsanto Corp. had a large research and development center in our response area (most of which was underground) and they were doing a lot of classified work. We had to have security clearances to enter the plant in case a worker became ill or injured.

I'm sure the feds have files on me in a dozen different agencies and frankly, I'm not worried about it.

IndianaDean
December 28, 2005, 05:31 AM
I agree. The powers that be already know what you have. Heck, I've gone through dozens of background checks over the last 2 years and the FBI always waves me through. I'm not concerned about any list I might be on.
I'm no threat to anyone on the U.S.' side.

Bullet Bob
December 28, 2005, 09:11 AM
cslinger; just curious, of the guns pictured, do you have a favorite for shooting just for fun?

feedthehogs
December 28, 2005, 09:38 AM
We all know that from the recent news flashes, as if we already didn't know, uncle Sam does keep track of its citizens. So what.

Forget ccw cards, 4473's, etc. The minute you got a SS number you were on a list.

Lists are a good thing, they remind me to buy more ammo, new guns, go to the range, buy food, etc.

Posting pictures from a male perspective is braggin rights plain and simple.
Its part of our DNA.
Its normal.

pythonguy
December 28, 2005, 09:43 AM
Love those AR's, I have a few of my own and they are so much fun to shoot. The best thing any avid gun owner can do is to join the NRA and help support gun rights. Needless to say its not PC to own guns in certain states, mine is one of them, but we can't just roll over and give up. The shooting community I have met here on Long Island are good people that enjoy target shooting or hunting. I am also a handgun owner and as such, need a permit to keep them. The Police in charge of pistol licensing in Suffolk county have always been very friendly and helpful, they even suggest good places to shoot or buy guns from. No, I can't lean out my backdoor and go target shooting, but I live in a residential area and wouldn't expect to. There are certainly gun friendlier states, like almost all the others, but I can buy as many guns and shoot as much as I want, and hope its stays that way far into the future.

One other thing, The High Road is by far the best gun board for great coverage and interesting info on all things in the firearms realm. There are some good speciality boards, but this forum has far less nonsense, ridiculous scenarios, and silly posting by far, thanks to all who run it.

CAS700850
December 28, 2005, 10:05 AM
Chris, whatever you do, don't check out a copy of "Catcher in the Rye" from the library!

:uhoh: ;)

Oh no, I own a copy! Man, am I screwed. ;)

With all of the concerns I have in day to day life, from my health isssues, to finances, to job concerns, to family worries, you'd have to get me really far down the list of worries to find any concerns I might have about whath the government learns about me through internet postings. Having been a government employee, in some fashion or the other, since I was 18 and enterred West Point as a cadet, I have real doubts abouty the abilities of the government to really track, read, catalogue, and monitor all of the traffic on the internet.

El Tejon
December 28, 2005, 10:15 AM
Oh, sure, you're all smug and secure and feel no threat from the gummit or the UN, but what about the bears?!?!:eek:

The bears and their pumas allies are out there and they are waiting.:uhoh:

pythonguy
December 28, 2005, 10:54 AM
True El Tejon, but we CAN shoot the bears.:D

ka50
December 28, 2005, 11:25 AM
Your rights end when they tell you that they do? That's a pity.

+1

America would never separate from Britain if everyone had attitudes of most people that are posting in this thread.

Molon Labe means nothing to them. They are not warriors or protectors of freedoms as intended by founding fathers. Just sheeple with a gun. Sad.

Werewolf
December 28, 2005, 01:06 PM
Your rights end when they tell you that they do? That's a pity.Actually that's just REAL life. Sad but true...

That's not to say one shouldn't complain or even fight back but for all practical purposes if the goobers in charge say you can't do that anymore, and they mean it - well - you just can't do that anymore without risking risking life, limb and your freedom.

A right is a right only if one is permitted to exercise it. It's just words and so many electrons flashing about between brain cells otherwise.

Third_Rail
December 28, 2005, 01:17 PM
Then I will protect my rights, and yours, until the end of my life. I'd rather be dead than a subject.

cslinger
December 28, 2005, 03:06 PM
By far my favorite plinker in the pictures is the middle AR. It is actually a dedicated .22 long rifle upper made by DPMS. This is quite possibly my favorite plinker period.

As for those talking about rights being taken away etc. I am sorry but I still firmly believe that fighting using politics and the law is the best thing. Talking about "going to war" or "violent revolution" just dilutes our cause. The more people who see guns as normal tools owned by normal people, the more people who will come into our fold.

Then again I am just one of those pansies who doesn't particulary like violence unless absolutely necessary. I prefer the buy em' a drink and talk things out plan. But that is what makes this place great, the fact that we all have our opinions.

Chris

Sindawe
December 28, 2005, 03:42 PM
Then I will protect my rights, and yours, until the end of my life. I'd rather be dead than a subject.+10^100

Just my opinion, but if one is not willing to fight, kill and even perish to stop the usurpation of one's inherent liberties, then the would be tyrants have already won. Sitting down and talking it out is the preferable course of action, but the threat of deadly force must always be there to back up the sweet words.

CombatArmsUSAF
December 28, 2005, 04:16 PM
The thing is, your deadly force won't be that deadly when they bring the attack helicopters, APCs, artillery, LAW Rockets, B52's, Tanks, etc-etc down upon your little uprising.

America would never separate from Britain if everyone had attitudes of most people that are posting in this thread.

Molon Labe means nothing to them. They are not warriors or protectors of freedoms as intended by founding fathers. Just sheeple with a gun. Sad.

When we split from britian we weren't facing certian death and defeat. We aren't talking about muskets and crude artillery. We are talking about very sophisicated weapons systems. Most of which we would never see coming until it was too late. Back then they might have been outnumbered and slightly outgunned by only slightly better weapons. Today we are drastically outnumbered and outgunned to a degree that we will never even come close to being even.

Plain and simple in todays day and age, the only thing we can do to protect our freedoms is to legislate our freedoms.

If you hold any illusions about your capabilities and our militarys capabilities. Just think about what our military has done to semi organized military forces with military weaponry. (IRAQ) The tanks and everything else they had may have been old, but it is still better than what we have.

Talking about "going to war" or "violent revolution" just dilutes our cause.

I am going to have to agree with CSlinger on this one and say that those of us, and I use that term loosely, that go around and say that we are going to violently overthrow the government, do nothing but hurt our cause. It is comments like this that play right into the lefties rhetoric. "The crazy, hillbilly, militiamen, with machine guns are going to kill us all" Therefore, you just give the bilssninnies ammunition to take our rights away. I would rather have 1 gunowner that believes in legislation, than 100 so called "freedom fighters".

engineer151515
December 28, 2005, 04:28 PM
Actually that's just REAL life. Sad but true...
................
A right is a right only if one is permitted to exercise it. It's just words and so many electrons flashing about between brain cells otherwise.



I like the wording of the Declaration of Independence...




"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men."


Government is instituted to secure your unalienable Rights, not to grant you your unalienable Rights.

Since the debate of inalienable rights has continued...

per:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inalienable_rights

"The existence of inalienable rights is unnecessary for the existence of a constitution or a set of laws and rights. The idea of a social contract – that rights and responsibilities are derived from a consensual contract between the government and the people – is the most widely recognized alternative".

R.H. Lee
December 28, 2005, 04:31 PM
I have no problem with posting pics; the man needs to be reminded we're armed IMO. I usually strip off serial numbers from photos but not out of any particular paranoia. My life is an open book and the man can track me down from my IP anyway if he's really interested.

mack
December 28, 2005, 04:44 PM
1. Rights are not dependent on what one is allowed or not allowed to do. Rights are inherent and God given. I know some like to call such words empty terms of art. Such people often like to refer to themselves as realists' and pragmatists'. Thank God, Washington, Jefferson, ect... were not such men, else we would never have founded this country or written the Declaration of Independence - which acknowledges that our rights are inalienable and God given. Thank God such non-realists and non-pragmatists - risked their lives, liberty and fortune - to fight for empty concepts and terms of art. Men and women who were unrealistic enough to believe that a bunch of rag tag colonials could defeat the most powerful military in the world.

2. Freedom is for anyone who is "willing" to risk or lose all that is precious and of value to them in this life in order to be free. Therefore, one cannot make a free man a slave and one cannot make a slave a free man; for first and foremost it is a condition of the heart and spirit.

3. Resistance to tyranny is a process, just as the imposition on tyranny is a process. As the road to hell is paved with good intentions, the road to tyranny is paved with little sacrifices for the greater good. In a like manner, the road to freedom is also a slow process, with a continuim of resistance. Therefore, there is no hard bright line in the sand, there is no one right response. Each individual must in the end determine with brutal self honesty, what they must do upon examination of their God given conscience. There is a time and a season for all things. The American Revolution did not spring up whole cloth over night, with lines of soldiers clearly facing each other across the battlefield. There were on going discussions and debates. There were those who resisted violently. There were those who resisted passively. There were those who counseled prudence and non-violence and those who advocated immediate independence. There were those who counseled compromise and those that rejected all compromise. All had a place, a time, and a season in the process. No one man determined the process, though many individuals played important roles in moving and shaping the process. No one person then or now could comprehend or predict the future course or shape of the process. All those who desired liberty put their shoulders to the wheel and pushed in faith.

mack
December 28, 2005, 05:13 PM
4. Some say we can no longer resist government through the use of force because the government has such powerful and sophisticated weaponry. I seem to remember the same arguments made in Vietnam. Funny that today in IRAQ where the most powerful military in the world is engaged in trying to control and stabilize a country that is in all respects less than a tenth of the USA, that they cannot defeat an insurgency that is supported by a minority of the population. Instead, it is plainly stated that stability will only come when the IRAQ people themselves reject the insurgency.

So explain how much simpler and easier the military could defeat such an insurgency in this country. Where soldiers would be killing their friends, neighbors, and families. Where power, support, political institutions, transportation, and manufacturing must be protected 24/7 in the midst of the conflict. Where the citizenry has even more access to chemicals, electronics, and weapons. Where those resisiting would have easier access to technology, where loyalties would be strained and questioned. Where citizens have to build complicated weapons systems, where trained teams have to deploy such weapons, where targets must be identified, and where one failure in the chain brings it down. And where there is a history and tradition of freedom and liberty.

I swear, or I would if I believed in swearing, that some individuals have no imagination or ability to conceive of resistance in any other form than some lame notion of pro-freedom forces lined up in a field with shotguns and hunting rifles opposed by evil govt.org forces lined up against them with tanks, planes, smart bombs, missles, and nukes. It has never been as simple as that.

Declaration Day
December 28, 2005, 05:18 PM
I usually try to avoid these ugly topics, as they can get out of hand quickly, even here. But I feel compelled to add my $.02.

1. Gun ownership is not a hobby for me, and I will not peacefully give them up if it comes down to it.

2. War is ugly, fighting is ugly, shooting people is ugly. One would have to be insane to want it to go that far. We should do everything we can to keep our gun rights through voting, writing our senators, joining pro-gun groups such as the NRA, etc. The fight will never end, and I will never grow tired of it.

3. I don't have any illusions about going to war with the US military. My illusion is that, if the government ever succeeded in outlawing guns, that the vast majority of our military and LEOs would refuse to enforce the law.

CombatArmsUSAF
December 28, 2005, 05:26 PM
+1 Delcaration

ka50
December 28, 2005, 06:26 PM
Then I will protect my rights, and yours, until the end of my life. I'd rather be dead than a subject.

I will join you if it comes down to it.

BryanP
December 28, 2005, 06:33 PM
Admit it Chris, you just wanted an excuse to post pictures of your toys again. :neener:

ka50
December 28, 2005, 06:38 PM
The thing is, your deadly force won't be that deadly when they bring the attack helicopters, APCs, artillery, LAW Rockets, B52's, Tanks, etc-etc down upon your little uprising.



When we split from britian we weren't facing certian death and defeat. We aren't talking about muskets and crude artillery. We are talking about very sophisicated weapons systems. Most of which we would never see coming until it was too late. Back then they might have been outnumbered and slightly outgunned by only slightly better weapons. Today we are drastically outnumbered and outgunned to a degree that we will never even come close to being even.

Plain and simple in todays day and age, the only thing we can do to protect our freedoms is to legislate our freedoms.

If you hold any illusions about your capabilities and our militarys capabilities. Just think about what our military has done to semi organized military forces with military weaponry. (IRAQ) The tanks and everything else they had may have been old, but it is still better than what we have.



I am going to have to agree with CSlinger on this one and say that those of us, and I use that term loosely, that go around and say that we are going to violently overthrow the government, do nothing but hurt our cause. It is comments like this that play right into the lefties rhetoric. "The crazy, hillbilly, militiamen, with machine guns are going to kill us all" Therefore, you just give the bilssninnies ammunition to take our rights away. I would rather have 1 gunowner that believes in legislation, than 100 so called "freedom fighters".


Read history. At one point independance movement consisted of 2000 men against whole British Empire.

BryanP
December 28, 2005, 08:15 PM
Read history. At one point independance movement consisted of 2000 men against whole British Empire.

Call out the Chairborne Commandos and their secret stash of flash-bangs.

cslinger
December 28, 2005, 11:57 PM
Hey Bryan you have a PM

PvtPyle
December 29, 2005, 01:21 AM
My favorite is the guy who wont buy a gun on "paper" or from a dealer because it gets them on the "to do" list. Yet they post about it, and ask if anyone has this or that gun for sales in a FTF transfer on THE NET! They have a CCW, get hunting or fishing licenses each year, SURF AND POST ON GUN BOARDS, but don't own a gun on paper. And they don't think they are on a list of gun nuts. Yeah, like the evil overlord and his minions have Joe Bumpkin on the top of their to do list for owning a closet full of guns. It is probably the closet full of cocain or whatever they are smoking that gives them these delusions that they are that much of a threat to .gov organization that has them on the to do list.

Third_Rail
December 29, 2005, 02:09 AM
Edited.

CombatArmsUSAF, cslinger, &c; we must agree to disagree.

middy
December 29, 2005, 12:26 PM
Did I just step into a junior high locker room?

cslinger, your original post is flame-bait. Very disappointing for such a senior member.

Waffen
December 29, 2005, 12:35 PM
CSlinger I can't say how greatful I am to hear another member of this forum put it so eloquently.

This "shower defence rifle" and "You can have my gun, bullets first" stuff does nothing but hurt the cause. If you want to fight for the feds over your right to own a firearm great, I perfer to fight in the halls of congress over a fight in my hallway.

Skeptic
December 29, 2005, 02:51 PM
Fight the battle the legal way just as our opponents do. Be more vocal, get involved, get laws passed, don't be afraid to stand up for what you believe in.... but do it the smart way.

I'm on so many "Lists" that the shadowy "they" would be fighting among themselves as to actually who would get to lock me up in the secret concentration camps ;) . Meanwhile in the confusion I slip away.......:neener:

cslinger
December 29, 2005, 03:00 PM
CombatArmsUSAF, cslinger, &c; we must agree to disagree.

Once again, that is what makes America great. I do not disrespect your opinion at all.

As for posting this as flame bait that was not my intent at all and I am sorry if it was seen this way.

Chris

Wllm. Legrand
December 29, 2005, 04:27 PM
I guess I'm a little confused.

Some seem to speaking of the "right" to own firearms. (It is no longer a right, but a regulated privilge, to a greater or lesser extent based upon your state and city of residence).

Firearms rights are only tangential to the real issues, i.e., the growth of government and its influence on your entire life, whether you are aware of it or not. So many of the gun culture are myopic or one-issue voters/thinkers. If you don't think sanctioned torture, holding people in prison for the rest of their lives without hearing charges, or the right to an attorney, all on the word of the executive branch is even worse than firearms infrigement, you haven't been paying attention.

Those for whom it is "okay" that you are being categorized, filed, etc., by FedGOD, are a sorry bunch. This is your America? I see no difference from that kind of acquiesence than the "Well, If you've done nothing wrong, then you got nothing to hide!" line. That's the line of intimidating cops, rogue cops, government busybodies, goons and poltroons, and other lovers of the State.

It's too bad we cannnot secede and let those who think an intrusive, spying, overbearing, and all-powerful government is "okay" have what they want. Oh...I forgot..That kind of thinking gets me the "tin foil" hat award for simply wanting a government that adheres to the law, especially the highest law of the land, the Constitution.

ka50
December 29, 2005, 04:34 PM
So many of the gun culture are myopic or one-issue voters/thinkers.



2-nd amendment - protector of the rest

many rights are restorable with enough activism. Except 2-nd amendment, because by losing it, you forfeit any ability to defend your rights in case of tyrany or blockage of legislative process. Not mentioning becoming open to be a victim of a violent crimes, which will soar if legal weapons are banned.

R.H. Lee
December 29, 2005, 04:46 PM
Those for whom it is "okay" that you are being categorized, filed, etc., by FedGOD, are a sorry bunch. This is your America? I see no difference from that kind of acquiesence than the "Well, If you've done nothing wrong, then you got nothing to hide!" line. Please show me the alternative; the way to 'opt out' if you will. You cannot live in modern American society and avoid a paper trail. You earn a living and report those earnings to the Fedgov, you use banks and credit cards and are on file with credit reporting agencies. Your real property is a matter of public record, as are any professional licences you hold. We are all transparent whether we like it or not.

Old Dog
December 29, 2005, 04:52 PM
Wow, Wllm. Legrande, way to hijack a thread and provide commentary more suitable for the Legal & Political forum ...

Those for whom it is "okay" that you are being categorized, filed, etc., by FedGOD, are a sorry bunch. I haven't read posts indicating that people feel it's "okay" ... I have noticed postings that indicate a somber, reflective and pragmatic understanding of the current reality in which we find ourselves.

If you don't think sanctioned torture, holding people in prison for the rest of their lives without hearing charges, or the right to an attorney, all on the word of the executive branch is even worse than firearms infrigement, you haven't been paying attention.I'm certain most of us here do find these situations very bad ... but the items you delineate have nothing to do with posting pictures of one's firearms on the internet. And not to validate your thread hijack, but infringement on firearms rights may be worse than all the above, as one Thos. Jefferson noted that
"The constitutions of most of our States assert that all power is inherent in the people; that... it is their right and duty to be at all times armed." --Thomas Jefferson to John Cartwright, 1824. ME 16:45

We cannot begin to hold sway with our government on any other issues without holding the 2nd Amendment rights as perhaps the most important of all ...

FedGODPersonally, I find this term not only offensive, but not germane to the discussion in this thread.

As far as the rest of your post, perhaps you can start a new thread in L&P.

Wllm. Legrand
December 29, 2005, 08:52 PM
Please show me the alternative; the way to 'opt out' if you will. You cannot live in modern American society and avoid a paper trail. You earn a living and report those earnings to the Fedgov, you use banks and credit cards and are on file with credit reporting agencies. Your real property is a matter of public record, as are any professional licences you hold. We are all transparent whether we like it or not.

I would advise you to read Boston T. Party's books.

True enough, one cannot avoid, by strict definition, a paper trail. But one can do much to reduce it.

One can do much to control a lot things. But most people don't do those things, either. For example, you could pretty much eliminate the effect of public schools on your children by TAKING THEM OUT. But most don't. You could divest yourself of the mind-control on television (mind control defined as conscious or subconscious attempts by the media to control your desires, preferences, etc., and/or acclimation to a designated PC perspection, i.e., acceptance of homosexuality, the "green" perspective, etc.), desiring or buying things don't need with money you don't have, etc.

To properly comment on the idea of creating a paper-trail or personal i.d. trail that is cool (though not cold) would require more time than I can afford to spend. Do yourself a favor, though. Read Boston T. Party's books, especially You and the Police, Molon Labe, Goodbye April 15th.

And while you're at it, try saying "NO!" once in a while when someone asks for your driver's license, SS#, or date of birth..INCLUDING health care providers.

CentralTexas
December 29, 2005, 08:56 PM
AMEN!! Finally sombody sane for a change. You my freind have both feet firmly planted on the ground, unlike those of us who are full of the warm gooey brown stuff. The ones who actually think that their "training" and AR15 will pravail againgst swarms of combat boot wearing feds riding in APC's:rolleyes:


Are you slamming those with the guts to at least try against superior numbers or did I misunderstand?
CT

Wllm. Legrand
December 29, 2005, 09:04 PM
Wow, Wllm. Legrande, way to hijack a thread and provide commentary more suitable for the Legal & Political forum ...

I haven't read posts indicating that people feel it's "okay" ... I have noticed postings that indicate a somber, reflective and pragmatic understanding of the current reality in which we find ourselves.

I'm certain most of us here do find these situations very bad ... but the items you delineate have nothing to do with posting pictures of one's firearms on the internet. And not to validate your thread hijack, but infringement on firearms rights may be worse than all the above, as one Thos. Jefferson noted that
"The constitutions of most of our States assert that all power is inherent in the people; that... it is their right and duty to be at all times armed." --Thomas Jefferson to John Cartwright, 1824. ME 16:45

We cannot begin to hold sway with our government on any other issues without holding the 2nd Amendment rights as perhaps the most important of all ...

Personally, I find this term not only offensive, but not germane to the discussion in this thread.

As far as the rest of your post, perhaps you can start a new thread in L&P.


Right. I'm a real thread hijacker. Call out the THR TSAs and shoot me. Maybe you could say I was irrational and talking about writing about a bomb.

Insofar as "people saying it's okay" to about the government reviewing public discourse, you haven't been paying attention. Reread the thread from the beginning.

I replied in another thread about the, how shall I put this gently, the "unwise" practice of disclosing an excessive amount of information about yourself on the internet, especially things like firearms. As for firearms infringement issues being worse (per Jefferson), heck, 95% of the people who post on these boards are hobbyists; Americans of today have been conditioned to a mindset in many areas that is so far removed from the principles of the Founders and Framers that most talk about what people would do about this or that law is irrelevent. Most, probably 98%, of Americans would hand in their firearms if they were properly conditioned correctly by FEDGOD in advance.

As to starting a new thread, the point is well taken.

Anyone who thinks its okay for the FEDGOD to surreptitiously keep records, spy on other Americans, violate laws for the "common good", whatever the hell THAT means, is the modern day equivalent of a Revolutionary War Tory.

Old Dog
December 29, 2005, 09:36 PM
Sheesh ... My thoughts while reviewing this thread were that most rational folks understand that posting a few photos of their personally owned firearms on the internet is probably just not that much of a of risk, given the sheer volume of technological registries out there already keeping track of each and every one of us ...

For just about all of us, particularly those of us that enjoy owning our own homes, owning automobiles of necessity registered to us, having to provide health care to our spouses and children, sometimes daring to purchase a new firearm through a federally-licensed dealer ... we can't just choose to drop off the grid.

Technological advances have rendered most of our privacy concerns moot. No way could the guy who penned the 4th Amendment have foreseen the capabilities of 21st century electronic computer surveillance ...

It certainly can make life easier to fight the system from within, through the various levels of bureaucracy and government, by political activism, voting, communicating with one's elected representatives at every level, engaging in public activity (community meetings, city/county council and board meetings, school boards, parent-teacher associations, clubs, community service organizations, churches, etc.) than living life undercover (regardless of the financial savings) as some self-styled, modern-day revolutionary ("Boston T. Party" indeed) ... As for me, when I do battle with my government, I want to do it publicly; I want to have some credibility, and I will do it through the system. Simply lots better for my family than stocking up on firearms, ammo and canned goods and going up to live in a cabin up in the hills while networking surreptiously with all the other revolutionaries ...

Read Boston T. Party's books, especially You and the Police, Molon Labe, Goodbye April 15th.Sigh. Anyone else out there tried to get through some of this writer's stuff?

Americans of today have been conditioned to a mindset in many areas that is so far removed from the principles of the Founders and Framers that most talk about what people would do about this or that law is irrelevent. Well, I can't disagree with you here. However, I submit that life is just a tad bit different for most folks now than it was back then ... what's been taken out of the equation is the fact that now, for most people being born on American soil, they can look forward to being coddled in a lifetime of relative comfort without EVER having to worry for the most part about disease, Indian attacks, wild animals, famine, the climate, the weather, the crops, pestilence, etc. Face it, folks just don't have to worry about such things as principles, ethics, morals, standards, honor ... And for most Americans (unless they're fans of using illicit drugs or ethnic minorities who enjoy driving around the bad parts of town at 2:30 a.m., or just enjoy a nice drive after imbibing intoxicants), the chances of having to really worry about the laws are fairly slim, thus most Americans remain blissfully ignorant of the law itself (excepting, perhaps, speed limits) or the passage of new laws ...

Anyone who thinks its okay for the FEDGOD to surreptitiously keep records, spy on other Americans, violate laws for the "common good", whatever the hell THAT means, is the modern day equivalent of a Revolutionary War Tory.Wllm. Legrande, IF you mean "federal government" (this FEDGOD thing is a bit much, don't you think?), no, of course it's not okay ... Have you read many threads in L&P over the past few months? Most would agree with you here as well.

Wllm. Legrand
December 30, 2005, 12:36 AM
For just about all of us, particularly those of us that enjoy owning our own homes, owning automobiles of necessity registered to us, having to provide health care to our spouses and children, sometimes daring to purchase a new firearm through a federally-licensed dealer ... we can't just choose to drop off the grid.


I don't think "dropping off the grid" is a possibliity. But adopting a lower profile is, and doing a private "simon jester" to muck things up and create "cognitive dissonance" in the data bases is a worthwhile thing to do, until real civil disobedience becomes necessary.





Technological advances have rendered most of our privacy concerns moot. No way could the guy who penned the 4th Amendment have foreseen the capabilities of 21st century electronic computer surveillance ...

This is a telling point. There is no doubt that the Framers would have considered the current state of information gathering and retention wholly outside the powers of government, yet I wonder how many even protest when asked. I do all the time. I remember when my S.S. card read "not to be used for identification". That's a laugh. When asked in stores for I.D. when purchasing ammo and I refuse it sometimes creates a scene. When told that it is the law, I respond with a polite , "B.S." or some euphimism to the same effect. If they were to say "store policy", that's another story, private property rights and all that, it would be their right to do whatever and my right to refuse, but that's another story.

The extent of government tracking in this country is what would have been a wet-dream to the Communists or the Nazis. The point of concern is not necessarily today, but twenty years from now when we are being acclimated to sorts of nefarious activities on the part of govenment. For example, traffic cameras. Searches when entering public buildings. Near-sexual assault for women traveling by air. Etc. Etc., ad nauseum.

ooops...forgot. This paints me as tin-foil hat material, eh?

wundudnee
December 30, 2005, 01:13 AM
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Now what was this thread about anyway?:p

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