Should people on the no fly list be allowed to own a gun?


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TheArchDuke
December 28, 2005, 01:55 PM
This is a poll that was being taken on another forum I'm a member of. Some of the responses are extremely disturbing. (Remember, this is a forum for apple computers...lots and lots of hippies and foriegners.)

http://www.spymac.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=204411

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Sindawe
December 28, 2005, 02:13 PM
Hippies! :cuss: Hippies!.They're everywhere. They wanna save the earth, but all they do is smoke pot and smell bad. /Cartman

Were in the phase "...shall not be infringed." does one find an excpetion for arbitrary lists?

Mnemesyne
December 28, 2005, 02:22 PM
Seems they have some fixing to do before worrying about if those people on the list can own guns or not....

There's a story on yahoo which is rather frightening, a 9 month old kid is on the no fly list...Pretty sad if you ask me...Link to article below for those that care to read it....

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20051215/us_nm/security_nofly_dc_1


Make the list public or at least accessible through your local police department so things like this don't happen....I certainly know I'd hate to be on some list when I hardly fly and I've never left the continental US......

Mneme

Zundfolge
December 28, 2005, 02:38 PM
Teddy Kennedy is (or at least was) on the no fly list at one point ... the list is worthless.

Camp David
December 28, 2005, 02:42 PM
Teddy Kennedy is (or at least was) on the no fly list at one point ...

I support that. Anti-American traitors should not be allowed to fly or allowed to partake in its freedoms.

Rusher
December 28, 2005, 02:58 PM
From reading in the past ....people on the no fly list have been found out to be babies....ol'red nose ted....and others that dont come to mind at the moment....but it is another way to make a non-citizen with out trial or due process........if they have done somthing wrong enough to warant this then charge them with a crime ......again due process......and what warants you getting on this list......to many google searches for arab names .....mosques.....books that are flagged

rick_reno
December 28, 2005, 03:16 PM
Teddy Kennedy is (or at least was) on the no fly list at one point ... the list is worthless.

An excellent example of someone who should NOT own a gun - look at the peoples lives he ruined with his car.

ID_shooting
December 28, 2005, 03:18 PM
What about "guilty until proven innocent" do they not understand. This whole mess is going to get alot worse before it gets any better.

Person of intrest? sure, revoke freedoms without due process, criminal.

Molon Labe
December 28, 2005, 03:28 PM
An excellent example of someone who should NOT own a gun - look at the peoples lives he ruined with his car.And he should not own a car...

yonderway
December 28, 2005, 03:35 PM
Teddy Kennedy is (or at least was) on the no fly list at one point ... the list is worthless.

Yeah but he's a murderer so it's okay.

jefnvk
December 28, 2005, 04:02 PM
It is funny how GWB is killing people's civil rights, accorsing to these people, yet they support using a secret list, with no criteria to be put on, no way to be taken off, and no way to see if you are on it to deny a gun [urchase.

deanf
December 28, 2005, 04:02 PM
Well if we don't know what the criteria are to get on the list (fed.gov holds this info close to it's vest) then we can't judge if these criteria are a suitable standard for denying people guns.

Biker
December 28, 2005, 04:16 PM
I've never understood the no fly list. If you're that dangerous, you've commited some serious crimes and should be in the Cross-bar Motel. If not...
Biker

enfield
December 28, 2005, 04:31 PM
Of course they should be allowed to own firearms, if they're otherwise qualified. I can't understand Americans, of all people, who want to restrict the rights of other people without due process of law. Don't they teach Civics in school any more?

TechBrute
December 28, 2005, 04:39 PM
Does this say anything about Mac owners?

Cosmoline
December 28, 2005, 05:12 PM
Abosolutely not. A list is just a piece of paper. If the state has information that a person is a terrorist, the state should investigate and prosecute. If they want to keep a list they can, but without some due process they cannot take away the RKBA.

Langenator
December 28, 2005, 05:35 PM
Honestly, I don't see how the .fedgov can deny a person the right to board a commercial airliner, either. Maybe they could alert the airline that the person who just bought a ticket is on their watch list (or at least, someone with that same name is) and let the airline make the decision.

I'm interested in exactly what legal principle/theory/precedent allows the government to bar someone from boarding a privately owned transportation conveyance.

Carl N. Brown
December 28, 2005, 05:53 PM
The no fly list is notoriously inaccurate and should be used only
for one purpose: to keep Cat Stevens from flying.

Biker
December 28, 2005, 06:00 PM
The no fly list is notoriously inaccurate and should be used only
for one purpose: to keep Cat Stevens from flying.
Well, I guess he could still take the 'Peace Train'.
:neener:
Biker

benewton
December 28, 2005, 06:00 PM
"... one purpose: to keep Cat Stevens from flying."

Na, the Cat should fly.

Out the door at 30K feet on his own wings!

As for the rest, if they can't charge in a court of law, they should just keep their mouths shut and leave freedom alone.

jefnvk
December 28, 2005, 06:30 PM
Does this say anything about Mac owners?

I hate to generalize, but look where Macs are generally found. Arts, media, social studies, etc. Professions where you would more expect liberals to be found. The only lab of Macs on campus is in the Humanities department.

sm
December 28, 2005, 06:33 PM
You do realize some folks are just plumb nuts and they did not / still don't have any idea what is meant by "licking postage stamps".
Hint: Flashbacks.

I have nothing against folks with long hair...mine used to be, and is going to be again.

Now: Should people on the no fly list be allowed to own a gun?

Well see I have a problem with the connotations of the words "lists" , "allowed" , and "own".

This conjures up *someone* took it upon themselves to implement some kind of Control or Restrictions on my Inalienable rights, not to mention they breathed MY air to do this.

My feeling is everyone has the right to carry a gun anywhere , anytime they damn well please. Including Conveyances such as Planes, Trains, Buses...

I mean next time someone chooses to upgrade from Economy Class to BoxCutter Class - they may not do so.

Umm...the persons who are "supposed" to be on this plane, meeting a dress code, and whom finally got over all the hurdles to "protect" folks on this plane ain't here...don't see 'em anyways...

Same for trains and buses. Instead ...ya know, that lady might be packin', perhaps that fellow in a sport coat, wait, could it be them College looking kids?

Perhaps folks will be more Polite, less prone to produce box cutters, or strap explosives on person, or...or...

Freedom is unique - means hippies, folks that don't bath, smoke dope, abstain from coffee, nicotine, have different incomes, been divorced, vote different, this, that , or the other - including road ticks....even breathe MY Air...gots rights too.

Yeah I know it sucks some of these folks do - but how this Freedom works just the same.

I mean I am prone to ask why don't they own a firearm and if so - why ain't they carrying it all the time? That sound like that "list" stuff - kinda , sorta.

Freedom means folks got a right to be wrong too. :p

psst...it was the lady in the aisle seat, she was packing a K frame. :D

Zundfolge
December 28, 2005, 06:37 PM
I hate to generalize, but look where Macs are generally found. Arts, media, social studies, etc. Professions where you would more expect liberals to be found.
Interestingly enough when you look at your average advertising agency, you'll find that the two most "conservative/libertarian" groups of people on staff are the Account Executives and the Graphic Designers.

Now the copywriters ... there's your obnoxious lefties (and ironically they mostly prefer M$ Word).

There's a lot of us Mac users who you would never call "Liberal".

My feeling is everyone has the right to carry a gun anywhere , anytime they damn well please. Including Conveyances such as Planes, Trains, Buses...
Damn straight!

benewton
December 28, 2005, 07:10 PM
Liked the Cat, and, I guess, in some ways, still do, in the artistic sense.

"Moon Shadow" springs to mind...

BTW, people who use Mac's always claim to be computer literate.

Which makes one wonder what the definition of computer illiterate might be...

Once I tried to do 68000 programming on a Mac, for a different target, of course. No compilers, no assemblers... The list'd go on forever. Forgot, of course, no access from the op system to any tools at all, except for screen editors, photo mod crap, and so forth.

Still, if you're a good person, march in the correct lockstep, and have the right attitude, I guess it's an OK machine.


But I've gotta work for a living, and so, almost anything else is better.

Old Dog
December 28, 2005, 07:11 PM
The question is moot since checking the TSA's no-fly list is not a database checked by NICS ... yet.

jmf
December 28, 2005, 07:16 PM
The way to eliminate "no-fly" lists is to issue a loaded pistol along with the boarding pass. Before 9/11/2001, the doctrine was to protect the passengers. After 9/11, the doctrine was to save the plane, the passengers are on their own. Fair enough, but let the passengers be armed, not disarmed.

Zundfolge
December 28, 2005, 07:35 PM
BTW, people who use Mac's always claim to be computer literate.

Which makes one wonder what the definition of computer illiterate might be...

Once I tried to do 68000 programming on a Mac, for a different target, of course. No compilers, no assemblers... The list'd go on forever. Forgot, of course, no access from the op system to any tools at all, except for screen editors, photo mod crap, and so forth.

Still, if you're a good person, march in the correct lockstep, and have the right attitude, I guess it's an OK machine.

People who bash Mac's always claim to be computer literate.

Which makes one wonder what the definition of computer illiterate might be...Seems your opinion is based on misinformation and ancient history...Mac OS is now built on a BSD Unix kernel called Darwin.

I also guess you never found the Macintosh Toolbox (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macintosh_Toolbox) or the Macintosh Programming Workshop assembler (http://developer.apple.com/tools/mpw-tools/) you could get from Apple (plus where where a couple of other 3rd party assemblers).



Anyway, sorry for the thread drift :p

Standing Wolf
December 28, 2005, 07:45 PM
If the Bill of Rights were to be put before the American people in ballot boxes, would it pass? I'm sorry to say I have my doubts.

TheArchDuke
December 28, 2005, 10:34 PM
I hate to generalize, but look where Macs are generally found. Arts, media, social studies, etc. Professions where you would more expect liberals to be found. The only lab of Macs on campus is in the Humanities department.

I'm the only conservative person at my art school. I love graphic design and animation. I'm not gonna let a buncha beatniks stop me from doing what I love :neener: haha

enfield
December 28, 2005, 10:39 PM
I think the no fly list is appropriate for a war zone, which we happen to be living in. The first battle of the War on Terrorism was fought in this country, and we lost.

c_yeager
December 28, 2005, 10:53 PM
I think the no fly list is appropriate for a war zone, which we happen to be living in. The first battle of the War on Terrorism was fought in this country, and we lost.

Thats lovely. Government checkpoints, arms confiscation, and prison camps are also appropriate for a "war zone". Why dont you volunteer to be placed in a camp for your own safety, the rest of us can live with the threat of terrorists.

pax
December 28, 2005, 10:57 PM
enfield ~

"In the fight against terrorism, some rights must be repealed."

Hmmm, sounds vaguely like an article I read somewhere or another lately.

pax

If the personal freedoms guaranteed by the Constitution inhibit the government's ability to govern the people, we should look to limit those guarantees. -- Bill Clinton

GRB
December 28, 2005, 11:16 PM
Teddy Kennedy is (or at least was) on the no fly list at one point ... the list is worthless.I would think that if Senator Kennedy was on such a list and therefore was not able to fly that would be an excellent thing - not worthless but precious!

cslinger
December 28, 2005, 11:21 PM
If somebody has broken the law or is a documented threat due to breaking the law then arrest them, otherwise they are to be treated no different then you or I no matter how scary that might seem.

Freedom is not safety, nor is it free, nor does it raise easy questions with easy answers.

Chris

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