Can you carry at NASA in Houston?


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Sam Adams
December 29, 2005, 02:00 AM
I'm taking a trip to tour the Johnson Space Center (JSC) in Houston in a couple of days. I know it is a federal facility, and I suspect that I won't be able to legally bring a concealed weapon onto the premises because of that (despite having a valid CHL), but I couldn't find a single thing about it on the Internet or on the JSC's website.

Does anyone out there know if they've got a 30.06 sign, or if carrying is simply "verboten" by nature of its status as a federal facility? Or, hopefully, is it permissible to carry at the JSC?

Thanks very much for any input.

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griz
December 29, 2005, 08:43 AM
Just their federal facility status should be enough. If they are the same as NASA Langley, they have a sign at the gate that has a gun with the red line and circle symbol on it.

Sam Adams
December 29, 2005, 10:29 AM
If they are the same as NASA Langley, they have a sign at the gate that has a gun with the red line and circle symbol on it.

Thanks for your response.

That symbol isn't, by itself, good enough to prohibit carry in Texas. Those who know the law laugh a bit inside when we see it, and are careful not to say anything to those who post them, because it means that we can carry there. The law here requires a sign with the exact statutory language, and the letters have to be a certain size (or larger), and the same message has to be in Spanish. However, we are talking about federal property, so maybe the rules are different - that's what I'm trying to find out.

antarti
December 29, 2005, 11:36 AM
I don't know if it's still this way, but at Cape Canaveral (shortly after 9/11) they were giving tourists the whole TSA treatment, including having women put their tweezers and metal nail files back in their cars before being allowed into the facility. Made no sense to me whatsoever, and I hope they've given up on that.

Lupinus
December 29, 2005, 11:40 AM
I don't know if it's still this way, but at Cape Canaveral (shortly after 9/11) they were giving tourists the whole TSA treatment, including having women put their tweezers and metal nail files back in their cars before being allowed into the facility. Made no sense to me whatsoever, and I hope they've given up on that.
Allright! Nobody move of see them wires? Anyone moves and Ima start clippin!

Pilgrim
December 29, 2005, 11:46 AM
That symbol isn't, by itself, good enough to prohibit carry in Texas. Those who know the law laugh a bit inside when we see it, and are careful not to say anything to those who post them, because it means that we can carry there. The law here requires a sign with the exact statutory language, and the letters have to be a certain size (or larger), and the same message has to be in Spanish. However, we are talking about federal property, so maybe the rules are different - that's what I'm trying to find out.
I'm sure the circle sign around the firearm with a slash through it is more than sufficient for the U.S. Magistrate who will be hearing the case and not a Texas judge.

Pilgrim

Preacherman
December 29, 2005, 11:48 AM
No, you can't - it's a designated Federal facility. Texas carry laws don't apply there, as it's under Federal law.

Desertdog
December 29, 2005, 12:10 PM
No, you can't - it's a designated Federal facility. Texas carry laws don't apply there, as it's under Federal law.
ABSOLUTElY. Don't even think about it, leave your guns at home.

Sam Adams
December 29, 2005, 02:07 PM
I will be a sheeple for a day - I'm not leaving a loaded gun in my car.

Thanks for the advice.

jeremywills
December 29, 2005, 02:13 PM
yep yep

Texas laws or any state law for that matter stop at the Federal installations front doorstep.

I wouldn't want to be Federally screwed so I would leave it if it were me.

Thefabulousfink
December 29, 2005, 02:15 PM
ABSOLUTElY. Don't even think about it, leave your guns at home.

Don't take your guns to town, son. Leave your guns at home, Bill. Don't take your guns to town.:D

Anyone who knows that song gets a shinny nickle

waterhouse
December 29, 2005, 02:20 PM
johnny cash.

now where's my nickel? :D

Thefabulousfink
December 29, 2005, 02:24 PM
Here,
___
/ \
| 5 |
\____/

Don't spend it all in one place:D

Edit: Damn ASCII wont work on the post....I'll send you a check

Phantom Warrior
December 29, 2005, 04:58 PM
That symbol isn't, by itself, good enough to prohibit carry in Texas. Those who know the law laugh a bit inside when we see it, and are careful not to say anything to those who post them, because it means that we can carry there. The law here requires a sign with the exact statutory language, and the letters have to be a certain size (or larger), and the same message has to be in Spanish. However, we are talking about federal property, so maybe the rules are different - that's what I'm trying to find out.


This has all been covered, but I'll just chime it. DON'T CARRY ON ANY FEDERAL PROPERTY. It's all "no guns." Whether you state permits you to carry or not has no bearing on federal property.

Kharn
December 29, 2005, 05:25 PM
No, you can't - it's a designated Federal facility. Texas carry laws don't apply there, as it's under Federal law.+1, you're no longer in Texas when you step on their property. The same goes for military facilities and federal buildings.

But here's a question: What about cops under the federal law that was recently passed, saying they can carry anywhere with their ID?

Kharn

jsalcedo
December 29, 2005, 09:02 PM
Nope can't.

In the line to look at the rockets they made my 2 year old empty all of the hotwheels cars out of his pockets because they thought he was packing heat.

Absolutely nothing even resembling a weapon is allowed.

wdlsguy
December 29, 2005, 11:35 PM
Are you going directly to the Johnson Space Center, or are you going on the Johnson Space Center tour through Space Center Houston?

I'm fairly sure your handgun(s) are legal in Space Center Houston's parking lot. Don't try to bring your handgun(s) onto the Johnson Space Center though.

BigRobT
December 29, 2005, 11:50 PM
Something needs to be changed. I, personally, HATE going to the base unarmed. Not that I am in fear of much bad happening on the base itself, but the to & from is what bothers me. I like to stop in some not so savory areas that are near the base & VA Hospital. Too bad that the very Federal Govt which is supposed to ENSURE our rights is the first one to wash them down the drain. I wouldn't even mind an exception, something like Permit to Carry holders can bring there weapon on the base, but it must be cased and unloaded or be in a gun vault type locking device while on the base. Maybe something like this:
http://www.safetysafeguards.com/site/402168/product/3912-SH


I contacted Senator Coleman on this issue. Here is a copy of my letter:

Dear Senator Coleman,
We have an issue that I feel should be addressed. The issue is that many states now allow concealed carry of weapons by it's citizens and that all military bases prohibit weapons on the base, unless one is living in the barracks, then it must be surrendered to the base armory. I would suggest that a change be made so that a permit holder can, at a minimum, surrender their weapon, temporarily, to base security while that person conducts their business on base. This would require some sort of small storage facility similar to those that are used by our law enforcement officers while inducting a prisoner into confinement. The cost would be miminimal and it would help preserve our 2nd Amendment rights, after our business on base is concluded.

Personally, I feel that NOT allowing a permit holder to NOT have their weapon available is an infringement on our 2nd Amendment rights, but I am willing to make certain concessions to not have to drive a couple of hours one way, conduct my business, and then go about the rest of my business in the area. After all, the permit holders have had background checks, and are probably better citizens than some of our military. To demonstrate the importance of civilians that hold permits, check out this web page: http://www.twincitiescarry.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=517
It shows that civilian permit holders are almost effective as police in forestalling & preventing violent crime. Granted, there is not a lot of crime on the military bases, but it DOES happen!! As a prior reserve police officer, I have been required to investigate assaults, domestic disputes, and other potentially life-threatening crimes. It always takes some amount of time for a police officer to respond to any given situation.

In closing, I would hope that you would be instrumental in getting this rule/law changed to benefit society and those of us that are law-abiding citizens. Please feel free to contact me if you have any questions or concerns in this matter.

Respectfully,
BigRobT
USN(ret)

I can only urge y'all to contact your Senators & Congressmen. The more we contact, the more likely the status may get changed.

deanf
December 30, 2005, 02:23 AM
DON'T CARRY ON ANY FEDERAL PROPERTY. It's all "no guns."

Not true. National Forest and BLM lands are not "no guns", absent state laws to the contrary.

Further, the general prohibition on federal carry contained in 18 U.S.C. § 930 (which is probably where the NASA no-guns sign originates from) contains an exception for citizens who lawfully carry handguns.

See this link. (http://www.thegunzone.com/rkba/rtc-usps.html)

If the NASA no-guns sign originates from another federal law that specifically protects NASA facilities, then that law may have more force and effect.

Consult an attorney.

cropcirclewalker
December 30, 2005, 11:01 AM
Last August they changed the rules at Fort Leonard Wood here in MO.

Handguns....unloaded and in the trunk. Now the rule.

FLW Regulation 190-6 dated 1 AUG 05:

para 5 b. "Personnel not living on the Installation may transport
weapons onto FLW for the purpose of hunting and
recreation. The weapon does not have to be registered with
the Provost Marshal’s Office. Personnel must ensure that
the weapons are properly registered in accordance with local
and state policy and that they abide by the hunting rules as
published by the Morale, Welfare and Recreation
Directorate. Personnel must also be prepared to provide
adequate licensing when directed to do so by appropriate
authority."

para 7 c: "Firearms will be transported in the following manner:
(1) All firearms transported on Fort Leonard Wood will
be UNLOADED. Muzzle loading firearms will be considered
as unloaded when the ignition system (cap or powder in pan)
is removed.
(2) When transported in a sedan, firearms and
ammunition will be carried in the trunk.
(3) When transported in a truck, van, or vehicle which
does not have a trunk or enclosed cargo area capable of
being locked, firearms, and ammunition may be carried in
the vehicle’s passenger compartment, however, the weapon
and ammunition must be separated. Weapons will only be
loaded in authorized hunting areas or areas designated for
privately owned weapons.
(4) When transported in the passenger compartment of
a vehicle, handguns will either be locked in the glove
compartment or other locked compartment. Pistols will be
kept unloaded while on FLW except at authorized ranges.
At no time will pistols be carried on the person of the owner
in a concealed fashion.
(5) Rifles and shotguns carried in the passenger
compartment of a vehicle will have the bolts removed, or the
action broke open. Rifles and shotguns transported in
locked storage compartments may be transported with the
bolts or actions closed.
(6) Unless being transported for a legitimate activity or
purpose detailed in paragraph7a(1) through 7a(8) above,
firearms will not be transported by any means of
transportation on Fort Leonard Wood."

I don't have a link, but maybe you could google it.

griz
December 30, 2005, 11:24 AM
But here's a question: What about cops under the federal law that was recently passed, saying they can carry anywhere with their ID?


There is an exception written into the law. It covers on duty LEOs and probably others, but I don't have access to a copy right now. FWIW, on NASA Langley, they also have an exception for approved turkey shoots.

atomchaser
December 30, 2005, 06:56 PM
Security at Kennedy/Cape Canaveral AFS is tighter than most federal facilities. I believe all of CCAFS is considered to be a "controlled area" Carrying weapons would not be wise. I tried to advocate for limited hunting on CCAFS for Feral Hogs to no avail -- everybody is afraid that their rocket might get a bullet hole in it.

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