HK 91 prices and knockoff????


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ParChaser
December 29, 2005, 02:12 AM
:confused:
HK 91 $$$'s vs. knockoffs????

What can one expect to pay for a HK91?

3 price ranges please, Fair, Good, and Excellent prices.

Are there good/cheaper knockoffs?

If so what are they? How do they rate? What can I expect to pay?

Springfield Armory SAR-8 as an example, where does it rate?

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MatthewVanitas
December 29, 2005, 04:20 AM
Greetings. The main "knockoff" getting buzz these days is the "PTR-91" series made by JLD Enterprises ( www.jldenter.com )

You can run a Search on the THR engine to see the many, many discussions and Range Reports on the PTR rifles over the last year.

Here's the long/short: just about everyone who got one loves it, and even folks who have owned original HKs say the PTR is just as good (and some folks claim that the PTR is even better). Being that the PTR can be had for as low as $700-800 if you shop around, that's saying a lot.

I was strongly desiring to buy the PTR-91KP, which is the short-barreled model w/ collapsing stock, but broke down and spent the money on a Bushmaster Dissipator. Someone here on the board bought a used one for $1000; that collapsing stock adds quite a bit to the price.

So, check out all the past threads/pics on the PTR by JLD Enterprises, and that'll probably tell you everything you need to know. Good luck in your search, -MV

Kramer Krazy
December 29, 2005, 08:57 AM
I've seen "real" HK-91 rifles in the $1800-$3500 range, depending on the condition and accessories (some factory HK accessories are expensive). I have a Springfield Armory SAR-8 that is an HK-91 clone. It isn't even one of the more desireable ones with the stamped receiver, but one of them with the cast receivers. I paid $725 for mine, but typically see them with asking prices between $600-$1200. There are LOTS of Century Arms G3 clones out there, and they can be had for $475-$700, but I've heard a lot of horror stories about them. The PTR-91 rifles have a fairly strong following and I've heard just about nothing but good things about them......It basically comes down to how much money you have and what you want. Personally, I just can't bring myself to spend the kind of money that the HKs are going for, so I settled for a clone, knowing it will always be a "clone" and never valued at what the originals go for........it is a really nice/fun rifle.

thatguy
December 29, 2005, 02:37 PM
Call me kooky, but I have a genuine Colt Ar15, and a genuine H&K M91 and a genuine FN FAL. I also have a genuine Colt SAA (and a couple clones that are clearly not as nice) and genuine Colt 1911s (and one clone that is clearly not as nice). It's that "clearly not as nice" part that maintains my interest in the genuine article.

My momma always told me to avoid cheap whiskey and cheap guns.

SnakeEater
December 29, 2005, 02:52 PM
The PTR-91 is every bit the equal of original HK's. It's even made on HK tooling, but it has a heavier barrel which should produce better accuracy. If you like paying more for name brand stuff, for no reason other than brand, than get the HK, if not, get the PTR-91.

MatthewVanitas
December 29, 2005, 02:56 PM
It's that "clearly not as nice" part that maintains my interest in the genuine article.

My momma always told me to avoid cheap whiskey and cheap guns.


It doesn't take much effort to find a ton of folks saying the following:

"I own a Colt SAA, but my USFA is actually far nicer and shoot better" Been hearing this one a lot on the Revolver forum actually.

"I own an HK 91, but the fit and finish, and accuracy, are even better with my PTR-91 at half the price" Check the reviews in the Rifle forum.

And I'm sure plenty of folks feel that they've found a nicer 1911 than their Colt.

I don't favor buying "cheap" guns either. But if Colt bought out Lorcin and starting stamping the Prancing Pony onto the slides of pot-metal .25ACP and selling it for $600, it wouldn't make it a great gun. Likewise, if someone is making 1911s as good as Colt ever did and better, but stamps "Wufflefritz" on the side, I'll buy one at a good price.

What I do favor is buying solid, accurate firearms, and if some company is turning out a so-so product with a famous brandname stamped on it (especially when the company is just a bunch of corporate execs that bought the rights to an old brand name for marketing reasons), I'm more than happy to buy a similar/better product without the logo.

-MV

dolanp
December 29, 2005, 03:04 PM
As others have said, the PTR-91 is the answer to your question. ;)

444
December 29, 2005, 04:53 PM
I agree with you thatguy.
When people say, this one is as good as X.
Or, when you read posts asking, how does Y compare to X ?
I realize that X is the standard by which all others are judged and buy X.

That being said, In this case, I bought something in between the two extremes. I bought a genuine HK G3 parts kit and had it built on a JLD reciever by Investment Grade Firearms. I personally didn't care for the PTR91. Especially the heavy barrel. I haven't seen a real HK91 for sale in years.

MatthewVanitas
December 29, 2005, 05:37 PM
I agree with you thatguy.
When people say, this one is as good as X.
Or, when you read posts asking, how does Y compare to X ?
I realize that X is the standard by which all others are judged and buy X.


This is just a rhetorical point by now, but I would argue, if you plug in "McDonalds" for "X" and the local upstart that serves outstanding burgers with never-frozen no-preservative ingredients from the farm the next town over, at an even lower price than McDonalds, and plug that in for "Y", does that still mean I should eat at McDonals instead?


That being said, In this case, I bought something in between the two extremes. I bought a genuine HK G3 parts kit and had it built on a JLD reciever by Investment Grade Firearms. I personally didn't care for the PTR91. Especially the heavy barrel. I haven't seen a real HK91 for sale in years.

Very good point on the heavy barrel though. Is there any gunsmith that can turn them down at a reasonable price (like KKF used to do on Dissipators)? Odd that JLD doesn't offer a lighter-barrel option, at a slightly higher price due to the increased machining costs.

I still vote: read all the past reviews of JLD PTR on the Rifle forum.

-MV

Average Joe
December 29, 2005, 06:50 PM
PTR-91 is the way to go.

444
December 30, 2005, 12:25 AM
Yes, you are right. I should have just stuck to the question asked:"Are there good/cheaper knockoffs? " Yes, there are. The JLD guns are very good.

georgeduz
December 30, 2005, 01:30 AM
i had the hessi arms h91 ,i didnt like it,i sold it ,and the ar rules the day.

thatguy
December 30, 2005, 01:38 AM
Like the song said, you've got to please yourself. Folks who are happy with clones, copies and knock-offs go with my blessing. Sometimes the clones are a better value when cost and quality are considered. But for pure "which is better" I favor the real thing.

Personally, I don't enjoy describing my guns by saying "It's just as good as..."

rfurtkamp
December 30, 2005, 04:32 AM
My beef with the PTRs more than anything else is that the charging handle is nowhere near as easy to operate as the real HKs and factory-produced clones (the Greek SAR-3/8s etc).

The only clone I've found that came close in the quality department is my little Vector V51 HK-51 clone - and no irreplaceable, non-importable gun was destroyed to create it. And it has a paddle release from the factory, which for me is a major, major bonus.

Now if only my Form 1 would come back quicker.

Marko Kloos
December 30, 2005, 05:51 AM
I've had the opportunity to examine a PTR-91 right next to a HK91, and the PTR-91 is cosmetically superior, with better finished welds. It also has the superior rear sight borrowed from the HK21E, and it's less than half of what you have to shell out for an HK91.

brandyspaw
December 30, 2005, 11:16 PM
I have both. The HK 91 was purchased back in the eighties and the
PTR-91 just last year. I feel the quality is very similar.

I would not say the PTR is better but it seems the same to me both in the function, finish and accuracy. I don't shoot the HK much these days now that I have the PTR but it sure gets a lot of use these days with the cheap (dollar a piece) mags and my stockpiled Port ammo.

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