14 year old boy shoots mother...ruled justifiable homicide


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jsalcedo
December 29, 2005, 09:34 AM
WICHITA, Kan. Dec 29, 2005 A woman who died after a car crash had been shot in the heart minutes earlier with a pellet gun that her 14-year-old son received as a Christmas gift, police said.

Police said the teen was protecting his grandfather from his mother, Elizabeth White. She was threatening the grandfather with a pair of scissors, according to authorities.

The death was ruled a justifiable homicide, said Capt. Randy Landen of the Wichita Police Department.


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White, 40, of Salina, had spent the weekend in Wichita after she was invited to spend Christmas at the house where her 73-year-old father and her 68-year-old mother were raising her children.

Police said the altercation happened after White returned to the home Tuesday. Armed with scissors, White threatened to kill her father, who had only a cane to defend himself, police said.

When the argument moved into the front yard, Landen said the teen's grandfather tripped over a planter.

As his mother moved toward her fallen dad with the scissors, police said, the teenager stepped onto the front porch and aimed, striking his mother in the heart.

After throwing the scissors at her son, White took off in a car, police said. Authorities think the wound caused her to lose control of her car. She died at a hospital after undergoing emergency surgery after the crash.

White, who has been in and out of prison during the past 16 years, has convictions for drug offenses, prostitution, writing bad checks and making threats, according to state records.



http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=1451531

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V4Vendetta
December 29, 2005, 09:38 AM
What kind of world are we living in when a kid has to shoot his own mother to protect his Grandpa?:( :( What was the argument about?

pangris
December 29, 2005, 09:39 AM
What a horribly screwed up story that... Katie Curic will use to further her agenda.

V4Vendetta
December 29, 2005, 09:43 AM
"Katie Curic will use to further her agenda."

Katie has a agenda??:confused:

Sry0fcr
December 29, 2005, 09:44 AM
What kind of world are we living in when a kid has to shoot his own mother to protect his Grandpa?


Sounds like she wasn't much of a mother anyhow. The kid did the right thing.

hillbilly
December 29, 2005, 09:46 AM
Damn........damn...........just damn.........

Can you imagine being 14 years old and having to shoot your own mother to protect your own grandparents????????????????


Damn..............:what:

markdaniel
December 29, 2005, 09:49 AM
The kid did the right thing for sure but now he has to live with the knowledge he killed his mother. No matter how bad she was i am sure it is horrible for him.my prayers go out to him and his family.

Molon Labe
December 29, 2005, 09:57 AM
White, who has been in and out of prison during the past 16 years, has convictions for drug offenses, prostitution, writing bad checks and making threats, according to state records.The defense rests, your honor.

TexasRifleman
December 29, 2005, 10:00 AM
Besides the obvious comment that prayers go out to this poor kid, let's take a look at how the lowly pellet gun was sufficient for defense of life.

Kinda makes those " Is a .380 enough " threads seem silly.

Rule #1 still stands - Have a gun.

mosttoyswins
December 29, 2005, 10:01 AM
So I guess a pellet gun is as good as a .45? :evil: :neener: :D

walking arsenal
December 29, 2005, 10:05 AM
Sure seems like it was.

V4Vendetta
December 29, 2005, 10:07 AM
"Sounds like she wasn't much of a mother anyhow. The kid did the right thing."

I wasn't disputing that. I'm just saying that a kid having to shoot his own mother is just not right. Makes you realize just how special your own mother can be. Take care little guy. I hope everything works out for him.

middy
December 29, 2005, 10:09 AM
What kind of world are we living in when a kid has to shoot his own mother to protect his Grandpa?
You know, no offense, but I'm always amused by comments like "What kind of world" and "What's the world coming to". When history books are filled with infidels impaled by the thousands, Aztecs with piles of fresh human hearts on top of pyramids, slavery of entire peoples, 100 million killed by their own governments in the last century... it just strikes me as odd that someone should be suprised by something like this. Sure, it's heart-wrenching and wrong, but it's entirely consistent with the nature of mankind.

V4Vendetta
December 29, 2005, 10:16 AM
"When history books are filled with infidels impaled by the thousands, Aztecs with piles of fresh human hearts on top of pyramids, slavery of entire peoples, 100 million killed by their own governments in the last century... it just strikes me as odd that someone should be suprised by something like this. Sure, it's heart-wrenching and wrong, but it's entirely consistent with the nature of mankind."

Good point. Go to www.crimelibrary.com for some interesting & sick stories. What I meant earlier was that this is a depressing incident. As to the nature of mankind, I think most people are good. Just stupid.

one-shot-one
December 29, 2005, 10:27 AM
i respectfully disagree, i think all people are evil and some of us are just smart enough to keep it in check. still fell bad for the kid and his grand parents, hope they come through this alright.

Matt G
December 29, 2005, 10:31 AM
That's a story off the A.P., and has no speculation or "analysis" in it. Good, objective fact-gathering. I'm mildly impressed.

No B.S. about the kid's access to the gun. No silly questioning about his background or motives. Just the facts. Glad to see that the cops seem to have a decent approach to it, too.

In a world that is probably no worse and no better off than it's ever been, that kid is sure starting off with a tough row to hoe. Good luck, kid. It may be hard to see, but probably the main source of pain in your life has removed herself. :(


--Matt G, who is picking up the phone to call his mother and say "thank you". . .

El Tejon
December 29, 2005, 10:33 AM
Aahhh, the results of the Welfare State.:banghead: Terrifying experience for the child, but her death is the best thing for society. It is positive that she was removed before she could destroy more people.

I will guarantee this: the child had seen his mother do this repeatedly when she was jonesing for a fix and needed money from her parents.

I just hope the children gets lots of counseling and has other non-screwed up family to help him through the next 7 years.:(

Erich
December 29, 2005, 10:49 AM
Amen.:(

Werewolf
December 29, 2005, 10:53 AM
"Katie Curic will use to further her agenda."

Katie has a agenda??:confused:Yep! The same one you have, apparently. :p

Werewolf
December 29, 2005, 10:55 AM
You know, no offense, but I'm always amused by comments like "What kind of world" and "What's the world coming to". When history books are filled with infidels impaled by the thousands, Aztecs with piles of fresh human hearts on top of pyramids, slavery of entire peoples, 100 million killed by their own governments in the last century... it just strikes me as odd that someone should be suprised by something like this. Sure, it's heart-wrenching and wrong, but it's entirely consistent with the nature of mankind.Well you know what they say. 1 death is tragic, 10 horrible but 1000 - well that's just a statistic.

84B20
December 29, 2005, 11:01 AM
If it was a typical assailant, not just his mother, the pellet gun would not have been enough to stop further attacks. He and anyone else around would still have been in danger. I still think a .45ACP is what is called for in a self defense situation.

HankB
December 29, 2005, 11:01 AM
. . . convictions for drug offenses, prostitution, writing bad checks and making threats . . . The "mother" was a violent crooked druggie hooker. Is it any surprise something bad happened to her? :rolleyes:

I hope the kid turns out OK . . .

V4Vendetta
December 29, 2005, 11:09 AM
"Yep! The same one you have, apparently."

What does that mean?:confused:

Molon Labe
December 29, 2005, 11:11 AM
a kid having to shoot his own mother is just not rightAgree. But some people need to be shot. This was one of those times.

armoredman
December 29, 2005, 11:19 AM
I had to help bury my mother in law yesterday, a woman who should qualify for sainthood, (if she was Catholic), and my own mother expressed her deep comdolences. I thank the Good Lord above I had a boring childhood! Two wonderful women, and this poor kid ends up with this evil witch. I hope he gets some professional help, and gets through this OK.

V4Vendetta
December 29, 2005, 11:20 AM
"Agree. But some people need to be shot. This was one of those times."

Agreed.

Taurus 66
December 29, 2005, 11:53 AM
So I guess a pellet gun is as good as a .45?

Wrong! Not even close. The pellet didn't strike her with the force of 60 charging elephants, thus, causing her to somersault three times and go rigor mortis within the first flip. :D

texasguy
December 29, 2005, 12:08 PM
White, who has been in and out of prison during the past 16 years, has convictions for drug offenses, prostitution, writing bad checks and making threats, according to state records.

I wouldnt have a very guilty concience...

Gunsnrovers
December 29, 2005, 12:20 PM
She may have biologically been his mother, but beyond that I would say it's in doubt.

LittleSureShot1994
December 29, 2005, 01:07 PM
Lord,
May this 14 year old boy live a better life, give his grandpa a long life, the 14 year old did the right thing lord. And let me believe his mother did a bad sin. :(
Make our world a better place Lord. And I shall say...
Amen for every better day.
I can't believe a Mother would do that :what: !!!!
At least that boy can live a life without his mom threatening to kill people (especially family).
Poor, poor, boy...
but that mom had it coming.
-LittleSureShot1994

xds&gsps
December 29, 2005, 01:40 PM
My wife & I are foster parents for children under six (years old) & I have met a few mother's that I would like to shoot for the horrible things they have done to these sweet little children & the things these children have endured because of their "parents". We had a 6 year old little boythat knew things that I had no idea what they were until jr. high or high school. God bless this young man & all the children that have to deal with this type of thing in a world where growing up w/ "normal parents" is hard enough.

insidious_calm
December 29, 2005, 02:05 PM
Wow, just wow.....


http://www.cjonline.com/stories/122905/bre_pelletgun.shtml


bugmenot: readmore, readmore

Woman shot with pellet gun dies after crash

The Associated Press

WICHITA -- A Salina woman who died after a car crash had been shot in the heart minutes earlier with a pellet gun that her 14-year-old son had gotten as a Christmas gift from his grandfather, police said Wednesday.

Police said the teen was protecting the grandfather when he fired the air rifle Tuesday afternoon at his mother, Elizabeth White, who had a history of drug problems and run-ins with the law.

The death has been ruled a justifiable homicide, Capt. Randy Landen, of the Wichita Police Department, said during a news conference.

"This is a tragic situation," he said.

White, 40, had spent the weekend in Wichita after she was invited to spend Christmas at the house where her 73-year-old father and her 68-year-old mother were raising her children.

Police said the altercation happened after White returned to the home Tuesday. Armed with scissors, White threatened to kill her father, who had only a cane to defend himself. His wife grabbed a kitchen knife.

When the argument moved into the front yard, Landen said the teen's grandfather tripped over a planter.

As his mother -- still armed with scissors -- moved toward her fallen dad, police said the teenager stepped onto the front porch and aimed. He fired only one shot from about 20 feet away, striking his mother in the heart.

After throwing the scissors at her son, White took off in a car. Authorities think the wound caused her to lose control of her car, which she crashed a short time later near a Wichita middle school.

The car struck two poles, went through a fence and hit a parked sport utility vehicle before it jumped the curb and came to rest in a yard, with the engine on fire. White died later Tuesday at a Wichita hospital after undergoing emergency surgery.

State correctional and court records show that White has spent more time in prison than out over the past 16 years.

White, who got out of prison for the last time a little more than a year ago, has convictions for drug offenses, prostitution, writing bad checks and making threats.


Define courage, see above......


I.C.

Shipwreck
December 29, 2005, 02:10 PM
Damn....

Third_Rail
December 29, 2005, 02:12 PM
Courageous lad. A pity he had to do that - but what a shot.

Sindawe
December 29, 2005, 02:14 PM
:banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=173625

Carlos
December 29, 2005, 02:16 PM
Now, that's what I call justice.

I do hope the kid doesn't suffer too long over this.

V4Vendetta
December 29, 2005, 02:39 PM
"Now, that's what I call justice."

True. I just wished it could've been someone else. Good riddance to bad rubbish.

saberstitch
December 29, 2005, 04:01 PM
I was watching this on the local news yesterday (I live near Wichita). The pellet rifle was one of the cheap, foreign wood stocked single cocking ones. I was kinda surprised it would have the power to penetrate and pierce her heart. They showed her picture and she was a pretty big gal.

WarMachine
December 29, 2005, 04:25 PM
This and those hot summers are further proof that this world is in a slow fall to hell... :barf:

jlc
December 29, 2005, 04:34 PM
The way I read it, the mother died from injuries sustained in an auto accident. Police speculate that the pellet injury may have caused her to lose control, but with the limited information here, I don't want to leap to conclusions... would she have died were it not for the accident? Was she high or intoxicated? Did the pellet actually penetrate her heart, or is being "shot in the heart" just an expression here for the upper mid torso, without respect to penetration?

Not enough information, and a possibly misleading headline, in my opinion.

a .177 pellet at 900fps at 20 feet...assuming 7.9 grains...I guess that could do something, if it got around the sternum?

MarkDido
December 29, 2005, 04:46 PM
So I guess a pellet gun is as good as a .45? :evil: :neener: :D

Yeah, I don't want to hear any more "I wouldn't carry a 9mm for self defense!"
:neener: :evil:

CentralTexas
December 29, 2005, 04:53 PM
I guess my mom was right those things can put your eye out (or your lights)!
:D
CT

lawson
December 29, 2005, 06:00 PM
it's a tragic story, but the kid probably didn't consider her his mother (or much of one, anyway). i've known a lot of people that don't care about their parents for the same reason, but have undying devotion for the people that raised them and took care of them (grandparents, relatives, foster parents, adopted parents, etc.).

as for the penetration issue, if there was much of a high difference, the pellet may have come up from underneath the sternum.

there was a case in my town a few years back of two brothers playing around with a BB gun, and one of the BB's managed to penetrate one boy's heart and killed him pretty quickly.

meef
December 29, 2005, 06:50 PM
i think all people are evil and some of us are just smart enough to keep it in check.
Golly..... aren't you just a bundle of sunshine?

I'm glad I don't have that particular philosophy as a personal guiding principle.

:scrutiny:

Werewolf
December 29, 2005, 06:58 PM
I'm sure most everyone knows this but most air rifles today can pump out a .17 or .22 caliber pellet at 1000 fps or better. That's not much lower than a lot of .22LR bullets pop out of the end of a real rifle.

A .22LR can penetrate 6 inches of pine from 20 or so yards away so a pellet at 1000FPS should be able to penetrate the breast bone. A pellet is small enough that if it did penetrate the heart it would take time to kill one. However , I think assuming it penetrated the breast bone that there wouldn't be enough energy left to penetrate the toughest muscle in the body wouldn't be unreasonable but it might bruise or otherwise damage it enough to cause stress at a level that could easily impair one's ability to drive.

Just my .02...

stevelyn
December 29, 2005, 09:41 PM
Darwin in action.

drinks
December 29, 2005, 09:55 PM
Werewolf;
Actually, copywriters for air rifle co.s have some doing over 1000fps, most ads do not claim quite that and most reviewers who use a chronometer get figures 150 to 350 fps below the ad's claims.
Just for grins, I bought a rifle claiming 1000 fps, my chronograph , with the lightweight pellets, which should give the highest velocities, showed 740fps on my chronometer, caveat emptor!

RioShooter
December 29, 2005, 10:09 PM
This female was not a "Mother" to this child. She was only the egg donor.

I hope she only had one child!

May she rest in peace. It doesn't appear that she had any on earth.

lee n. field
December 29, 2005, 11:00 PM
White, 40, of Salina, had spent the weekend in Wichita after she was invited to spend Christmas at the house where her 73-year-old father and her 68-year-old mother were raising her children.

White, who has been in and out of prison during the past 16 years, has convictions for drug offenses, prostitution, writing bad checks and making threats, according to state records.

Sad story. Very sad, for multiple reasons.

it just strikes me as odd that someone should be suprised by something like this.

We Calvinists have a word for that. :)

No, I'm not surprised when things like this happen. There sometimes seem to be no bottoming out on human stupidity or evil.

I thank the Good Lord above I had a boring childhood! Two wonderful women, and this poor kid ends up with this evil witch. I hope he gets some professional help, and gets through this OK.

"And all the people said. . . .AMEN!"

one-shot-one
December 31, 2005, 12:17 PM
Golly..... aren't you just a bundle of sunshine?

I'm glad I don't have that particular philosophy as a personal guiding principle.

:scrutiny:

some see the glass as half full others as half empty, to me it seems to depend on if water is being added to or taken out of the glass. seems to me that the water is being removed from the glass quicker each day.;)

springmom
December 31, 2005, 12:35 PM
Damn........damn...........just damn.........

Can you imagine being 14 years old and having to shoot your own mother to protect your own grandparents????????????????


Damn..............:what:

And that is in fact about all you can say. :what:

Springmom

HankB
January 4, 2006, 03:51 PM
Actually, copywriters for air rifle co.s have some doing over 1000fps, most ads do not claim quite that and most reviewers who use a chronometer get figures 150 to 350 fps below the ad's claims.I've heard that the cheap Chinese air rifle velocity claims are sometimes exaggerated, but my chronograph shows my RWS M48, rated at 1100 ft/sec, actually will fire a lightweight RWS "Hobby" pellet at around 1104 ft/sec instrumental velocity . . .

FallenAngel
January 4, 2006, 07:48 PM
As evil as this woman seems to have been, she was still his MOTHER and that is something you just cannot forget about. I have worked with girls as a therapist and some of the things I have heard their mother doing to them, including prostituting them out for drugs, made me want to cry. Even after all of this, as much as they despised and hated their mothers for this, they still LOVED them at some level.

This poor child will probably never recover from this. I hope that he will and lead a successful life, but knowing people and working with kids as I have, I do not have much hope.

I am glad this woman is out of the world, but I am saddened that this poor child had to do it.

mrmeval
January 4, 2006, 07:57 PM
I'm boggling that he was able to put a pellet in her heart. As to the other, you've never been around crack whores much I take it? Maybe an earlier type, the booze whore?

Damn........damn...........just damn.........

Can you imagine being 14 years old and having to shoot your own mother to protect your own grandparents????????????????


Damn..............:what:

gremlin_bros
January 4, 2006, 08:05 PM
i pray for this young man that he is able to put this horrible incident behind him and go on to a productive life. i also pray that somebody is able to get through to him that he made a very tough choice but that he had the courage to make it and made the right one. it makes me grateful for my mother who though overprotective does care for me and loves me. i cant even imagine having to shot a member of your own family let alone the woman who gave you life. both the boy and his family IE: his grandparents will be in my prayers for the best recovery possible from this incident.

well i think thats all i have to say about this:(

Malone LaVeigh
January 4, 2006, 09:29 PM
Aahhh, the results of the Welfare State.
I must have missed the part where they mentioned that. Or are you psychic?

JohnKSa
January 4, 2006, 09:38 PM
1. Poor kid.
2. a pellet gun that her 14-year-old son had gotten as a Christmas gift from his grandfatherThe grandfather definitely got his money's worth out of that gift.
3. If it was a typical assailant, not just his mother, the pellet gun would not have been enough to stop further attacks.Absolutely incorrect. The "typical assailant" never sticks around long enough to get shot, let alone to continue the attack. The VAST majority of successful uses of guns do not involve anyone being shot--in fact, in most cases the gun isn't even fired. In the very few cases when someone is shot, it's rare for them to need to be shot again before surrendering, even if the wound is purely superficial.

It is the RARE EXCEPTION to encounter an attacker who must be incapacitated or killed before they will cease attacking.

Firethorn
January 4, 2006, 11:58 PM
It is the RARE EXCEPTION to encounter an attacker who must be incapacitated or killed before they will cease attacking.

He was probably thinking of cases where a shot had to be fired.

Incapacitation wasn't achieved here. She was still capable of walking and driving a car, at least for a few minutes afterwards.

On the other end, you have the guy who assaulted an old woman, she ended up shooting him like seven times with a .380 and it took hours for him to bleed to death, during which time he continues to beat her.

Basically, with a personal defense weapon, you don't want to be bluffing.

JohnKSa
January 5, 2006, 12:36 AM
He was probably thinking of cases where a shot had to be fired.That doesn't really change things. When a shot is fired MOST attackers who are fired upon will cease attacking regardless of the level of injury sustained--including no injury (a miss.)

Incapacitation wasn't achieved here. She was still capable of walking and driving a car, at least for a few minutes afterwards.Exactly--and in spite of that, she still immediately stopped attacking. That is the case in MOST successful gun uses when the attacker is actually shot. They immediately cease hostilities even if not incapacitated.with a personal defense weapon, you don't want to be bluffing.I agree with you 100% and I wasn't suggesting bluffing. I was merely paraphrasing/summarizing the results of a survey on defensive gun uses.

The survey indicated that it's extremely unlikely that a defensive firearm will ever be called upon to INCAPACITATE. In most cases it won't even be fired, and in the rare circumstances when it is fired, even a miss or superficial injury will ALMOST always be sufficient to stop an attack. It's VERY rare that actual incapacitation is required to stop an attack.

I'm not suggesting that we count on bluffing to stop an attack, but that doesn't change the fact that guns are very powerful criminal repellent, even when they are not fired and especially when they are (including many cases when the criminal is not severely injured or incapacitated).

Look at it this way--statistics show that people who drink moderately enjoy slightly better health. By stating that fact, I'm not advocating that anyone drink moderately, I'm just pointing out a fact. Likewise in this situation, I'm not encouraging people to bluff, I'm just pointing out a fact.

Mot45acp
January 5, 2006, 06:06 PM
And to think all this time I have been wasting good $$$ and NCIS checks on
.45's n' 9's. To hell with my Smiths n Rugers. I am now selling or trading all my WOMD's for Red Ryders.

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