More on MTV (Thursday) "True Life" On Gun Owners


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Ironbarr
December 29, 2005, 01:45 PM
MTV 'True Life' Documentary to Focus on Gun Owners
By Jeff Johnson
CNSNews.com Senior Staff Writer
December 29, 2005

(CNSNews.com) - MTV, Music Television, has become known more for its "reality" shows and political activism than for playing music videos over the past decade. That trend will continue Thursday night with the airing of the latest episode of the network's "True Life" documentary series: "True Life: I'm a Gun Owner." While some firearms enthusiasts are giving MTV the benefit of the doubt, many gun rights advocates are already questioning the objectivity of the program.
Full story http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewNation.asp?Page=/Nation/archive/200512/NAT20051229a.html

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Kharn
December 29, 2005, 01:53 PM
I'm going to stay up and watch it. Might as well see what propaganda they can put together.

Kharn

Tequila_Sauer
December 29, 2005, 02:06 PM
A network that pledges to keep guns out of its core programming is going to put together an objective documentary on gun advocacy.


I'm such a glutton for punishment because I know what it's going to be, and I know it's just going to aggravate me to watch it.........but I'll be right there, in front of my TV, watching tonight with a disgusted look on my face.

Trip20
December 29, 2005, 02:24 PM
They're already off to a bad start. Portraying gang bangers and gun owners under the same definition of "Gun Owners" (as if they're all a part of the same group), is wrong.

Criminals and gun owners are synonymous?

Criminals “own” guns – yes. But, c’mon.

They interpolate a few slim buckets under the same category as us. That’ll shed some good light on gun owners in the impressionable eyes of today’s teens.

Old Dog
December 29, 2005, 02:33 PM
I hate MTV with a passion ... I believe it's symptomatic of so many of the worst aspects in our culture ... even responsible for the acceptance and spread of some of the worst things in our culture today ...

I cannot, on principle, watch MTV. Further, if the CNS article is at all accurate, it's guaranteed that this program will not only NOT be objective in any sense of the word ... watching it will only raise one's blood pressure (and like everyone on MTV, make one stupider).

Bubbles
December 29, 2005, 03:00 PM
Ummmmm..... while I don't know how the whole MTV piece will be overall, I do know that SAS member Lennie Evans was interviewed extensively for it.

http://www.2asisters.net/va/

Ironbarr
December 29, 2005, 03:14 PM
I hate MTV with a passion ... I believe it's symptomatic of so many of the worst aspects in our culture ... even responsible for the acceptance and spread of some of the worst things in our culture today ...

I cannot, on principle, watch MTV. Further, if the CNS article is at all accurate, it's guaranteed that this program will not only NOT be objective in any sense of the word ... watching it will only raise one's blood pressure (and like everyone on MTV, make one stupider).Will, your para (1) - I heartily agree. Para (2) - from one old shipmate to another, may I suggest that we monitor our adversaries as they flail around looking to develop a tactic that works for them. Recognizing that some of our youth (para 1) are taking that stuff in, it gives us a bit of heads-up to head-em-off... so to speak .

Yeah, we'll rant some - even rave maybe - yet we could pick up some useful info. At the very least, we may even get to laugh some.

-AndyB

Old Dog
December 29, 2005, 03:36 PM
Yeah, Andy ... you're right ... I should practice what I preach, and even though it sticks in my craw, I've gotta watch the stupid stuff on the tube just to keep up with the propaganda and other crass stuff our children, and the next generation, are being exposed to ...

K-Romulus
December 29, 2005, 03:47 PM
My kid bro (19 y/o) grew up on this MTV culture. His college sociology teacher showed them "The History of Gun Control," a History Channel documentary hosted by - MIKE WALLACE! :eek:

Sure enough, that one DVD undid everything I had taught him for the past ten years about firearms, firearms ownership, and individual responsibility. During Thanksgiving he was sputtering about how: (1) he "hates the NRA" for "what they have done" (2) "can you believe semi-auto civilian versions of the M-16 and AK-47 weapons of war are allowed for sale?" (3) he "can see the need for a handgun (maybe) for self defense, but who HUNTs with X firearm?" (5) "'guns don't kill, people kill,' is the stupidest thing I ever heard" and (5) "we license and register cars, why not gun owners and their guns!" :(

I calmly tried to explain why he was wrong on numbers 1-5 (that would be all of his points), and I could see he actually listened to what I said about the bogus "semi-auto" issue, but I think it was no-go for the other issues (guns are a "more deadlier" means of killing, NRA, and licensing/registration). A big part of why that is so (IMO) is that his generation is bombarded with anti-gunowner media saturation through TV sound bites ("43 times," "assault weapons," "spray fire from the hip," "ban handguns to save lives," etc). If the TV person says so, it must be true, right?

And the kicker - his buddies are history buffs with their Mosins and Mausers, and my bro wants a Springfield '03. "Weapons of War," indeed . . . :rolleyes:

trueblue1776
December 29, 2005, 03:50 PM
anybody know when it's going to be on?

Ironbarr
December 29, 2005, 03:50 PM
If the BP goes too high take a break.

Be careful out there.

-AndyB

gfen
December 29, 2005, 03:53 PM
10pm, Eastern.

Sindawe
December 29, 2005, 03:57 PM
Beat me too it gfen.

Sad really, It was not all that long ago (ok, ten years) that MTV programming still consisted of mostly videos with a sprinkling of "reality shows" and some funny cartoons like Bevis & Butthead.

Now its just slicky produced and packaged propaganda.

trueblue1776
December 29, 2005, 03:57 PM
Today?

Ironbarr
December 29, 2005, 04:04 PM
Beat me too it gfen.

Sad really, It was not all that long ago (ok, ten years) that MTV programming still consisted of mostly videos with a sprinkling of "reality shows" and some funny cartoons like Bevis & Butthead.

Now its just slicky produced and packaged propaganda.Well, you could say that the "education" medium is doing a good job. Too bad the folks running it - are running it.

-AndyB

CAS700850
December 29, 2005, 04:05 PM
Beat me too it gfen.

Sad really, It was not all that long ago (ok, ten years) that MTV programming still consisted of mostly videos with a sprinkling of "reality shows" and some funny cartoons like Bevis & Butthead.

Now its just slicky produced and packaged propaganda.

Yes, and back in our day, both MTV and VH-1 were still actually about music, not slanted societal commentary. I miss Remote Control!

outofbattery
December 29, 2005, 04:32 PM
The MTV True Life episodes that I have seen have been the best presented,least biased documentaries shown on TV.There is no anchorman or interviewer like 60 Minutes or Dateline,just the subjects and cameramen who portray the individuals as they see fit to show themselves.Of course,much can be edited but they have been quite balanced.
I don't think showing the bad side of gun ownership is wrong or paints a false image of the collective law abiding,socially and morally responsible us.I do not CCW because I know that a large percentage of the 20k people registered here also are armed on a daily basis;it's not my fellow responsible gun owners and firearms enthusiasts that I fear may harm me.If there were no armed criminals,I would not carry a handgun.There is and will always be a negative side of firearms and their use;hopefully MTV will show the positive aspects more than outweigh it if viewed objectively.

Mal H
December 29, 2005, 05:01 PM
Old Dog - I whole heartedly agree with your first paragraph also. However, for this one instance, I will retrieve MTV from the dungeon I have placed it in (i.e., it's not even included in my "favorites" channel listings) and tivo the program just to see what they have to say.

However, even before seeing it, I would have to question how objective or realistic it could turn out to be. To my way of thinking, creating a show on the life of a single gun owner is about as realistic as creating a show on, say, a single automobile driver. We are all different. About the only truly common thread amongst the many millions of gun/automobile owners is the ownership of the gun/automobile itself. I don't see how any valid conclusions can be made. But, perhaps they aren't intending to present it so that a conclusion can be drawn - time will tell.

AZRickD
December 29, 2005, 08:43 PM
*MTV 'True Life' Documentary to Focus on Gun Owners*
By Jeff Johnson
CNSNews.com Senior Staff Writer
December 29, 2005

*(CNSNews.com)* - MTV, Music Television, has become known more for its "reality" shows and political activism than for playing music videos over the past decade. That trend will continue Thursday night with the airing of the latest episode of the network's "True Life" documentary series: "True Life: I'm a Gun Owner." While some firearms enthusiasts are giving MTV the benefit of the doubt, many gun rights advocates are
already questioning the objectivity of the program.

MTV's "True Life" documentary series has told the "remarkable real-life stories of young people and the unusual subcultures they inhabit" -- from a homosexual couple getting "married" in Massachusetts to young people "living a lie" by concealing their multiple, simultaneous romantic relationships or their sexual preference.

The Dec. 29 episode examines how "guns are changing the lives of four young people in very different ways," according to a promotional "blurb" emailed to *Cybercast News Service* by MTV publicist Diane Domondon.

"While most gun owners are responsible, on average every hour someone between the ages of 15 and 28 is cut down by a bullet," the promotional statement continued. "Whether it's for protection, crime or sport, guns are having a deep effect on the youth of our nation."

The promotional announcement did not indicate whether the phrase "cut down by a bullet" included injuries or only deaths. It also did not indicate whether the statistic included accidents or legitimate self-defense shootings by law enforcement officers and civilians.

The program features a convicted felon, a gang member, a hunter and a crime victim who is now an advocate of armed self-defense to present the various sides of the gun debate. Several gun rights advocates immediately challenged MTV's math.

"It's a bit offensive that 50 percent of the people they've chosen to feature as being 'gun owners' are people who are obviously breaking the law and probably acquired their firearms illegally," Erich Pratt of Gun Owners of America said of the gang member and the convict. "When you look at the statistics, it's only a fraction of 1 percent of the 'gun owners' in the country who ever use firearms in an illegitimate way."

Joe Waldron of the Citizens' Committee for the Right to Keep and Bear Arms said dividing the program's attention evenly between legitimate use and criminal misuse of firearms "really isn't balanced."

"Because, overwhelmingly, the typical handgun or the typical firearm is not used in a crime," Waldron explained. "What they should be doing is having interviews with something like 100 good gun owners and then one gangbanger, which would put it more into perspective."

Data <http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/pub/pdf/guic.pdf> from the Justice Department's Bureau of Justice Statistics indicate that approximately two-tenths of 1 percent of firearms available in the U.S. are used annually in the commission of a crime.

One of the founding members of the Second Amendment Sisters, Mari Thompson, said she is particularly disturbed by MTV's choice to feature a gang member in the program.

"If they know that these people are gangbangers and have these weapons, probably illegally, then they should not be putting them on TV. They should be giving their names and whereabouts to law enforcement," Thompson said. "Whoever has that kind of information, it's their duty to report that ... instead of putting them on TV, for goodness sakes."

A representative of the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence said the organization would prefer not to comment on the program without having seen it but would provide analysis later. A voicemail message for the anti-gun Violence Policy Center said the organization's offices are closed for the remainder of the year.

Marshall Eisen, MTV's executive producer for the program, was not available for comment. MTV was not able to provide *Cybercast News Service* with a review copy of the program, according to Domondon, because the final edit had not been completed. The production company that filmed, edited and field produced the documentary -- Shadowbox Films in New York -- referred all questions to MTV.

Pratt hopes that, despite what he sees as predetermined bias from the network, MTV will treat the two law-abiding gun owners fairly.

"Especially the young lady who is clearly interested in using guns for self-defense, that's extremely important since gun owners will use a firearm in self-defense about 7,000 times a day," Pratt said. "Obviously, that's people's best defense in a moment of crisis."

"Hopefully, she will be an articulate spokesperson for our side of the issue," Waldron added. "Then, of course, obviously, the question is: 'Are the good, pithy things going to make it onto the editing room floor, or are they going to come out over the air?'"

MTV's "True Life: I'm a Gun Owner" is scheduled for Thursday at 10 p.m. (Eastern). *Cybercast News Service* will publish a follow-up report detailing reaction to the program on Friday, Dec. 30.

fiveoboy01
December 29, 2005, 09:00 PM
"While most gun owners are responsible, on average every hour someone between the ages of 15 and 28 is cut down by a bullet," the promotional statement continued. "Whether it's for protection, crime or sport, guns are having a deep effect on the youth of our nation."



Ah, blame an inatimate object for problems with our youth. Yes, those damn guns "cutting down" all those youth. Since we all know a human brain can't control itself when a firearm is around...:rolleyes:

Typical passing the buck...

FWIW, it should read "While the VAST MAJORITY of gun owners are responsible"...

ralphie98
December 29, 2005, 09:06 PM
By the looks of the preview I saw last week, they are at least trying to be balanced on it. I saw what appeared to be a couple of gang bangers, a hunter, and a young lady doing some practice with a handgun (self defense angle?). Even though there are no narrators to throw in their opinions, MTV will still be doing the editing so there is still that chance they could throw a slant in there. I will do my best to catch the show, if for no other reason than to discuss it here and know what everybody is talking about :)

exoduster18
December 29, 2005, 09:09 PM
+ 1 to OldDog.....and I'm 18 and I hated MTV since I was an impressionable teenager (age 12). MTV sucks!!!

Hkmp5sd
December 29, 2005, 10:05 PM
Think I'll pass on this one. Other than jacking up my bloodpressure, watching these type shows accomplishes nothing.

phantomak47
December 29, 2005, 10:06 PM
I am 25 years old and a lot of people my age and younger have turned MTV off since its lost a lot of its edge .

MTV is borring and its gotten old fast.


The only thing I really liked was Beavis and Butthead, that is quality Tv.

I dont think they would even watch it anymore. Dammit Beavis , Mtv sucks.

longeyes
December 29, 2005, 10:41 PM
MTV: Home of Thug Rap. Are Fiddy and Diddy in it?

SecuritySixShooter
December 29, 2005, 11:05 PM
Oh this show looks like a winner. note sarcasm

At the beginning they ask if you (the viewer) should have one (gun) in you home?

No there should be several!

mcooper
December 29, 2005, 11:13 PM
I just saw them show the "rapist wet dream" picture in passing.

Bill2k1
December 29, 2005, 11:13 PM
So far it seems it should be called "Why not to join a gang."

bean357
December 29, 2005, 11:15 PM
I found it. Yeah.....:rolleyes: a winner
What is this about, gun ownership or GANGS??

bean357
December 29, 2005, 11:17 PM
Quote by guy on the show "that's the kind of hunting you do here in Los Angeles....you hunt human beings"
:barf:

Meta
December 29, 2005, 11:23 PM
"True Life" I'm a gun owner on MTV now.....turn it on.

So far they have been putting a pretty honest picture on guns. I can't believe I am saying this about MTV.

SecuritySixShooter
December 29, 2005, 11:26 PM
Loved watching the lady fire her gun for the first time...practice makes perfect

Ironbarr
December 29, 2005, 11:28 PM
I surely hope that girl finds us here before too long - before she needs her gun.

/IB

KONY
December 29, 2005, 11:48 PM
Did she just bring a concealed handgun into a bar? :what:

Ironbarr
December 29, 2005, 11:50 PM
Did she just bring a concealed handgun into a bar? :what:Yes... I believe so. Camera effect?

Darkside852003
December 29, 2005, 11:51 PM
I surely hope that girl finds us here before too long - before she needs her gun.

I don't think she will have it that long. Concealing without her CPL. Drinking with her CPL. All on film.......... what a great protrayal of gun owners. :rolleyes:

Bill2k1
December 29, 2005, 11:51 PM
So far I think it is following the guns are ok for hunting attitude. The hunter is portrayed as a normal person, the other 3 are just :uhoh:

KONY
December 29, 2005, 11:52 PM
Yes... I believe so. Camera effect?

Well, so much for responsible gun-ownership. Didn't they teach her this in her required firearms training course? :confused:

Rob1035
December 29, 2005, 11:53 PM
its re-airing right now. so far, some kid in court for robbery, some college chick packing while bar hopping, and some LA hispanics talking about gang violence. off to a great start.

KONY
December 29, 2005, 11:54 PM
I don't think she will have it that long. Concealing without her CPL. Drinking with her CPL. All on film.......... what a great protrayal of gun owners. :rolleyes:

Amen! Very irresponsible. She doesn't seem too stable either, IMHO.

KONY
December 29, 2005, 11:56 PM
Haha! They opened the hunter guy scene playing a 50 Cent song! :D

Ironbarr
December 29, 2005, 11:58 PM
Well, so much for responsible gun-ownership. Didn't they teach her this in her required firearms training course? :confused:You have to remember... they've had a month or more to edit and scrub this thing. Seeing her stuff that in her purse, and knowing for fact that she carried it... is kind of iffy. That doesn't excuse the broad inference that that is the thing to do - or normally done. Her security is provided by the fact there's a camera/management crew in company.

KONY
December 30, 2005, 12:04 AM
You have to remember... they've had a month or more to edit and scrub this thing. Seeing her stuff that in her purse, and knowing for fact that she carried it... is kind of iffy. That doesn't excuse the broad inference that that is the thing to do - or normally done. Her security is provided by the fact there's a camera/management crew in company.

Good point! Not sure if she did for sure but it sure look bad.

BTW, what'd you guys think about her closing comments about not needing to "carry it on me so much anymore" and her learning firearm disarming techniques?

Bill2k1
December 30, 2005, 12:06 AM
Seemed to me like she was more well rounded in the end. The last time we saw her, she didn't appear like some unstable person.

I loved the ending :D Basically all that show made me want to do was go to Alaska and hunt :o

Rob1035
December 30, 2005, 12:07 AM
I have no clue why they called it "I'm a gun owner". I want my 30 minutes back, but oh well, i guess it could have been worse.

I do like how the NJ said "I'd rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6", even though he said he was caught with a semi-auto and the MTV text said "machine gun"

Kharn
December 30, 2005, 12:07 AM
Too bad they didnt prosecute Lucky on the federal level for that MG, 10 months and eligible for parole? :what:

You cant carry concealed in a bar in VA, open carry or leave it behind. :cuss:
And what was up with Lennie (chick with CHL) thinking she was ok with grabbing the gun during self defense training? She was way too slow to have pulled that off.

Oh well, I didnt think it was that bad, it definitely could have been a lot worse.

Kharn

Darkside852003
December 30, 2005, 12:09 AM
Well I get the point. It must be right, it's MTV.

You only need guns for hunting.:rolleyes:

The girl in the end says she dosen't need to carry the gun. It makes her uncomfortable. So she is taking self defence classes. They make it a point on how to disarm a gunman by hand.:rolleyes:

Ended with a gangbanger talking about his homies killed by gun violence.

Just what I expected from MTV. Well done I wasn't disappointed.

Now it will take months to reverse the propaganda. My brother and his friends just watched.

I was just reminded why I don't watch the idiot box.

ralphie98
December 30, 2005, 12:11 AM
You have to remember... they've had a month or more to edit and scrub this thing. Seeing her stuff that in her purse, and knowing for fact that she carried it... is kind of iffy. That doesn't excuse the broad inference that that is the thing to do - or normally done. Her security is provided by the fact there's a camera/management crew in company.

They did show her drinking from a plastic cup while in the bar... which around here usually means non-alcoholic. Just because you carry in a bar does not mean you're carrying while drinking.

Overall, I didn't think it was that bad of a portrayal. They showed the gang banging for what it is.. Stupid and dangerous. They showed the girl handling her gun well with good muzzle control, etc. The hunter came off as responsible and showing respect for nature/animals.

I most like one of the opening lines where the narrator said "While most gun owners are responsible...". I can't complain about that.

Rob1035
December 30, 2005, 12:12 AM
yeah, probably not as bad as the "I'm a street racer" episode, talk about giving honest enthusiasts a bad name...

KONY
December 30, 2005, 12:14 AM
They did show her drinking from a plastic cup while in the bar... which around here usually means non-alcoholic. Just because you carry in a bar does not mean you're carrying while drinking.


Well, VA law dictates that you must open carry in any establishment with a license to serve alcoholic beverages, even if you're not drinking any of them. In my area, that means open carrying at Chuck E Cheese (and I do). :uhoh:

ReadyontheRight
December 30, 2005, 12:18 AM
Didn't they teach her this in her required firearms training course?

From the way she handled the gun when practicing at her father's farm, I don't believe she participated in any training whatsoever.

And how about her just walking out of the Ace Hardware with her new gun? "Oops! I was so excited I forgot to buy bullets!":rolleyes: They jumped right from "Oh, this 9mm is so nice and small" to walking out with a shopping bag.

And a whole new breed of MTV-educated, gun-hating imbezzles is born. Now a bunch of children will write A+ term papers throughout 2006 about how easy it is for anyone to walk into a hardware store and buy a gun.:banghead:

Seems like a lot of racist rubbish to me. The whites are college students and trophy hunters while the non-whites are gang-bangers. I'll bet there are a lot of proud citizens in those gang neighborhoods who have defended themselves and their families with firearms.

"Ain't no bears in L.A....we hunt humans". That quote there should be enough reason to allow any law-abiding citizen to own a gun w/ no questions asked (and allow anyone who kills in cold blood to hang).

The antis often argue "things were different in 1776." Well...I bet if the Founding Fathers walked through L.A. today, they would have changed the RKBA right to a requirement. And probably included full-auto and close air support.:)

ralphie98
December 30, 2005, 12:18 AM
Good point! Not sure if she did for sure but it sure look bad.

BTW, what'd you guys think about her closing comments about not needing to "carry it on me so much anymore" and her learning firearm disarming techniques?

I say, to each their own. If she isn't comfortable carrying a gun, then I think most here would agree that she shouldn't be carrying one. She is in her comfort zone and is letting her guard down. At least the hand to hand self defense is better than nothing... :uhoh:

Highland Ranger
December 30, 2005, 12:22 AM
MTV = who cares . . . . novel in the 80's, now it's just another dying medium.

Madonna that pillar of civilization, won't even let her kid watch it . . . .

UberPhLuBB
December 30, 2005, 12:22 AM
...

KONY
December 30, 2005, 12:23 AM
I say, to each their own. If she isn't comfortable carrying a gun, then I think most here would agree that she shouldn't be carrying one. She is in her comfort zone and is letting her guard down. At least the hand to hand self defense is better than nothing... :uhoh:

True, I agree that she did seem more at peace with her environment, which is a good thing.

UberPhLuBB
December 30, 2005, 12:24 AM
Oops... how did I triple post?

UberPhLuBB
December 30, 2005, 12:25 AM
...

UberPhLuBB
December 30, 2005, 12:27 AM
The show actually wasn't that bad.

Until the last 10 minutes.

That's when they wrapped it up by having everyone show in their own way that nobody needs guns. Even the girl who was almost raped said she "doesn't want to feel like she needs a gun to be safe" and won't carry it all the time anymore. You don't carry a gun to "feel" safe, you carry it on the off chance you may need to use it.

The hunter shot a caribou "humanely." The criminal was found not guilty (hah!), only to end up in jail again 3 weeks later for posessing a "machine gun," even though he himself called it a semi-automatic. MTV added "machine gun" to the text description at the end. The ex-gang member turned savior didn't change but one of the two kids he was helping went back to his gang instead of leaving like the first one. Both kids and the ex-gang-member had been shot multiple times, linking them to the premise of the show.

The first 50 minutes (or should I say 30 minutes after commercials) was OK. The end ruined any positive message the program could have contained. It was because of the last 10 minutes that it might as well have been dead air time. There was nothing to take away from the show other than that MTV is a moral vaccuum on the air waves. There's no reason to watch anything on MTV, ever.

depicts
December 30, 2005, 12:34 AM
Not as biased a show as I expected. Sort of objective, though the "legal" CCW girl in college was not a prime example of a serious gun owner who carried for self protection/home protection. She broke a lot of basic gun handling rules, safety, state laws ect. I think her father made the point she would not want to have the gun stolen from her home in a robery, so she should carry it with her. I'm 50/50 with that, but not carrying into a bar illegally.

The gang banger stuff should show anyone why we all should have the right to carry, to protect ourselves from these 13 year old idiots who prey on the streets of every city and think the three dollars in your pocket are worth your life.

The hunter reminds me what bad shape I'm in, and that I could never do that sort of hunt again, alas! The lungs couldn't take it. Probably couldn't fight off an attack in the street with my lungs either...especially if I beeped my horn and 15 people attacked me.

All in all I don't think the show did a lot of damage, except it may make a few more gang bangers think they are doing the right thing in the "hood".

Sindawe
December 30, 2005, 12:36 AM
MTV = who cares . . . . novel in the 80's, now it's just another dying medium. Quite true. And in light of that fact, this strikes me as rather apropos.

Internet Killed the Video Star (http://www.koreus.com/files/200407/internet_killed_videostar.html)

yonderway
December 30, 2005, 12:39 AM
Jeez Uber, post it a few more times already. :rolleyes:

CentralTexas
December 30, 2005, 12:42 AM
he posted in a MTV rap style staccato beat, wicky,wicky,wicky....
CT:D

UberPhLuBB
December 30, 2005, 12:43 AM
Jeez Uber, post it a few more times already. :rolleyes:

Sorry, I'm having latency issues that my ISP refuses to fix. Edited 3 of 'em.

:uhoh:

poppy
December 30, 2005, 12:56 AM
I guess I didn't get the point of showing the hunter buying 44 mag rounds. It was probably for his sidearm, but who knows? He obviously didn't bag a caribou with a 44 mag. at 250 yds. poppy

Rezin
December 30, 2005, 02:09 AM
I miss Remote Control!
actually, That was the beginning of the end. Their first show...... It was downhill form there.................

AJ Dual
December 30, 2005, 02:20 AM
The college girl did say at the end during the Judo classes that she wasn't going to give up her gun, and felt that she'd allways want to have one. And frankly, even we admit amongst ourselves that only about 5-10% of permit holders carry religiously.

I also noticed that at the end of the Judo class where she was practicing disarming techniques, she held the gun back at the "attacker", and it seemed just matter of fact. The implication that I took from that was that martial arts does not replace a firearm, but it does have a place in the force spectrum. They do teach "chop-sukey" to LEO's and the military too ya know...

Could you drive an 18 wheeler through the holes in this "documentary"? Sure. However, considering the source, MTV, it I have to say it was insanely fair.

They let the girl make the point clearly and early on that the sex offender only ran because he thought her mother was coming downstairs with a gun. Allowing that alone was worth whatever other creative editing they did. They gave her ample screen time of cleaning the pistol, target shooting with eye-and ear protection and demonstrating some muzzle control as well.

(It must have done some good! My wife asked me to confirm the combo to our electronic pistol box while watching it with me! Something that she's done twice now, since looking at WI's sex-offender site on her own, and finding out who some of our own "neighbors" are. You can see the gears starting to turn.)

The whole bar thing had me going :confused: as well, but, I don't think the majority of the "great unwashed" would pick up on that. IMO, only fervent pro's, virulent anti's, (and LEO's) would have picked up on that, and I don't see this show making any converts in those three camps, I'm not even sure the film crew or producers understood the CCW/bar angle frankly. Within the "bar carry" context they didn't do any editing to make her look bad.

p.s. That young hunter was the real deal, IMO. :eek: Wow. Hard core, at least as compared to all the tree stand deer hunters he left behind in our native Wisconsin. His little speech about a humane kill, and being grateful for the animal didn't seem wimpy or "sell-out" at all. Even Ted Nugent has his famous "Friend Bear" song.

UberPhLuBB
December 30, 2005, 02:27 AM
I was cringing at the disarming technique being showed to the girl. If the attacker pulled the trigger, her hand would have been shredded by the slide's movement.

AJ Dual
December 30, 2005, 02:42 AM
I was cringing at the disarming technique being showed to the girl. If the attacker pulled the trigger, her hand would have been shredded by the slide's movement.

I noticed that as well, but filed it away under "better to do something than nothing" etc. It's an extension of Do NOT get in the van with the perv. EVER Even if he has a knife/gun. You are better off laying shot on a public street with a chance, than you are as a lampshade in the guy's basment.

I think there's also some theroy that when being held at gunpoint at near point-blank range, the initiative and the odds goes to the disarmer. (Assuming 100% commitment on the part of the disarmer, a very important caveat.) Until you move, the shooter can't process that the disarm is in progress, and react fast enough. It's like that trick where you try to pinch a dropped dollar bill that was suspended half way between your fingers, almost no one can do it. The human nervous system just dosen't work that way.

It's a variation on the famous "21 foot rule" for LEO training against a knife-wielding perp. Only the very best quick-shot artists can reliably fire in that senario.

Black Majik
December 30, 2005, 03:44 AM
I honestly dunno how to react to this show. I sit here and can't help but feel that we, as gunowners just got stomped on. About 70% was related to gun violence on the streets, gang shooting and rivalry.

Then theres the CHL holder, which I gotta give the cameramen credit. I dunno how they can be in front of her as she was trying to hit the soda cans. Obviously, it seemed she was no to shooting as she would close her eyes before she pulled the trigger! Then of course, her chambering a round before she puts it in her purse. I can't help but to think of a AD occurring.

The Alaskan hunting segment was the most interesting to me. It just seemed pretty cool to see the three guys camping, and the search to find a decent sized bull. I enjoyed watching this one the most.

I know it was only an hour long, but dang, I think they misrepresented how real gunowners are. And it still put us in a bad light.

saberstitch
December 30, 2005, 09:06 AM
I turned after the first couple minutes and the gang banger with the Mac11. "33 round chamber, sprays 3 shots....Ptat, tat, tat, tat.." :rolleyes:

RaggedClaws
December 30, 2005, 10:11 AM
I can't believe I watched the whole thing, though the hunter segments were by far the best. That boy was the real deal and he did a really fine job representing the hunter/gun-owner population.

Concealed carry in a bar??? That really struck me. Poor girl though. I'm glad she made peace with herself.

I don't think I understood more than two words of what those NJ gang-bangers were saying. I heard "mac 11" and that was it, the rest was gibberish. It really bothered me that 2 of the 4 people portrayed were avowed criminals. Not exactly a fair representation of gun owners. Where was the law-abiding target shooter? That is probably the biggest group of gun owners in this country, and they [we] had no representation on that show at all.

It is funny that the criminals were from New Jersey and California (very strict gun control states), and the law-abiding gun owners were from Wisconsin and Virginia (relatively free states regarding gun control).

IndianaDean
December 30, 2005, 10:23 AM
I haven't even turned on MTV for probably 5 years. No need to start now.

Sportcat
December 30, 2005, 10:30 AM
Not knowing Virginia's CWP laws, it did strike me odd to see the young woman carry her gun into the bar (a no-no here in South Carolina).

Sportcat
December 30, 2005, 10:31 AM
Also, the gangbanger "Lucky," I hope he gets lucky in prison.:D

ambush
December 30, 2005, 10:51 AM
It is funny that the criminals were from New Jersey and California (very strict gun control states), and the law-abiding gun owners were from Wisconsin and Virginia (relatively free states regarding gun control).

I spend a fair amount of time in those neighborhoods for work. Its ironic, law abiding, hard working, tax paying, gun owning folks like me that have to enter these areas to work are NOT ALLOWED to protect ourselves, yet these gang-bangin hooligans who could care less about me or that I'm there trying to better things for them carry without any qualms or fear of the law. Its only gonna get better when King Corzine and his cronies take over in January:(

Master Blaster
December 30, 2005, 10:52 AM
Well I watched it they did not include any target shooters, or skeet shooters of any type,which should have been a 5th group in the show, showing the gang bangers for such a large portion of the show perhaps spoke to the Urban demographic of the shows viewers, and their familiarity with hip hop culture.:rolleyes:

It was pretty fair overall considering the source, I didn't hear any gun banner cliches in the show at all, well except from the paralyzed , social worker in Ca, so that was good. It was certainly much more fairly presented than the last Gun story, I heard on Fox News which concerned the .50 cal. and mentioned you could blow up a chemical plant or shoot down an airplane with one, nobody needs one to hunt BLAH Blah.

The Girl with the CCW, did scare me a bit by putting that Glock 19?? in her purse with all the junk to roll around, Good chance for a negligent discharge, if something like say a lipstick got caught in the trigger guard, or if grabbing for it in an emergency. GET a special purse or a holster dear.

As far as the machine gun charge for Lucky goes, he was caught in New Jersey, and IIRC they have a state law which considers some semi autos to be the same as a machine gun if they are named in the statute, and have more than a 15 round magazine. Maybe someone from Jersey can enlighten us.

MuzzleBlast
December 30, 2005, 11:02 AM
This is what I wrote to MTV:
Dear Sir or Madam:

I would like to comment on an episode of the series “True Life” entitled “I Am A Gun Owner.”

First, I must comment on some aspects of this documentary that I found highly offensive. The producers seem to put legitimate gun owners and criminal gang members on the same level. I assure you, there is quite a difference. While it is technically true that an armed felon is a gun owner, the fact remains that they own, carry and use their guns in violation of law, and use their guns to harm others. There is simply no way you can logically and rationally say that a young woman who has gone through all the legal hurdles to arm herself against being attacked again is on the same level with murdering thugs. If there is any similarity between the two in your mind, then you have a seriously distorted view of reality. Also, there is a strong undercurrent of racism in this documentary. All of the black and Latino subjects of this film were in knowing and willing violation of numerous gun control laws on the local, state and federal levels. Your portrayal of all minority gun owners as being violent criminals is highly objectionable.

Having said all that, I am willing to give credit where it is due. I am assuming the producers of this film are young, urban, blue-state dwellers. It is extremely difficult and rare for persons of this demographic to approach the issue of firearms with anything close to an open mind. They are operating from an environment of deep-seated cultural bigotry, and as such, there is generally a tendency to show legal gun owners in the most unflattering light possible; as being stupid and possibly deranged and dangerous hicks. The two people in this film who were legally exercising their rights were not shown in this light. They were simply shown as what they were: quite normal people with quite legitimate reasons for being armed.

The last point I would like to make is that there was a large part of the gun issue which was missed by the producers of this episode: Fun. All of the uses of guns portrayed involved crime, fear and death. There are a great many gun owners who do not hunt, and have not armed themselves out of fear, they simply enjoy owning, shooting, collecting and discussing guns, and being in the company of like-minded people. Perhaps the producers would have found a shooting match to be illuminating. For a match that would be TV-friendly, somewhat more politically correct and provide an opportunity to poke fun at the participants, I would suggest a “Cowboy” match, put on by the Single Action Shooting Society. These are matches in which grown men and women dress up like characters from John Wayne movies, take on pseudonyms like “Black Bart” and “Pecos Bill,” and shoot at targets using guns designed in the 1800’s.

Thank you for taking the time to read my comments.

Trip20
December 30, 2005, 11:02 AM
...Wisconsin and Virginia (relatively free states regarding gun control).
Can't CCW in Wisconsin. To me, that's about as "gun control" as it gets. :cuss:

ambush
December 30, 2005, 11:24 AM
As far as the machine gun charge for Lucky goes, he was caught in New Jersey, and IIRC they have a state law which considers some semi autos to be the same as a machine gun if they are named in the statute, and have more than a 15 round magazine. Maybe someone from Jersey can enlighten us.

No NJ state statutes that I know of (and I know all) consider a semi as a full auto. Remember the "assault weapons ban"???? We still have it here in NJ. You can't even own a magazine that holds more than 15 rounds, even if you have no gun for it:eek: Any semi-auto with a detachable mag that holds more than 15 is considered an assault weapon in NJ....now illegal. Granfathered weapons had to be registered ($50 fee for EACH one) and all sales and transfers are now illegal. Any rifle that "looks" military is considered assault. This state's firearm laws are a horrible, mish-mash of cobbled together stupid laws put together by politicians that know little to nothing about firearms. Its really a mess here, I mean a slingshot is considered a firearm......any toy gun that is spring loaded is considered a firearm....you can't buy a BB gun without a NICS check...its bad.

outofbattery
December 30, 2005, 11:27 AM
Overall,it wasn't that bad but I wish they had done a little better on finding a girl who shoots regularly and CCW's responsibly.It was clear that she did not have any formal training or at least it seems like she forgot whatever she learned in the " Completing an approved hunter education or hunter safety course
Completing an approved firearms safety or training course
Having participated in approved organized shooting competitions or military service
Having previously held a valid license to carry a handgun in Virginia" necessary to obtain a CCW in VA.I wonder if she did actually obtain it even?Far be it from me to criticize a crime victim,but it seems like some counseling would have done her a fair bit of good as she was not in the clearest of mental states,though to be fair to her she was in a much better frame when they concluded.Maybe it should have been"True Life:I'm a victim of violent crime" and "True Life:I'm a POS Thug".

I don't think you could have asked for a better spokesman for a hunter than the gentleman shown.It showed a hunter as someone who isn't Jeff Foxworthy and company sitting around a campfire stewed to the gills and blasting away at anything.He passed on the doe,took several days to stalk and make a clean kill,quartered and packed it out on his own.I'd love to shake his hand-and it did breifly show him shooting clays with an Auto 5 early in the show.He's a far better spokesman than ranting and raving Ted Nugent.

Regarding carry in bars,I did it legally last night though I do not drink alcohol at any time,I could have.There is no restriction on carry in MA outside of schools,gov't buildings and a bar could place a sign that said NO LTC's Permitted,I have never seen any type of store in MA with a sign not allowing concealed carry.Again though,it's one more reason why I question if she was the best person to have shown-although she is probably more typical of the American gun owner in terms of training and usage (outside of the paranoia) than the makeup of THR.

Sportcat
December 30, 2005, 11:31 AM
Nice letter MuzzleBlast. Let us know if you get a response.

MuzzleBlast
December 30, 2005, 11:44 AM
Nice letter MuzzleBlast. Let us know if you get a response.Thanks. I'm not holding my breath.

Ironbarr
December 30, 2005, 01:26 PM
(CNSNews.com) - A pro-gun lobbying group is complimenting MTV for treating law-abiding gun owners fairly in its "True Life: I'm a Gun Owner" documentary, which aired Thursday night. But Gun Owners of America argued that the producers featured misleading and inaccurate statistics and focused almost exclusively on anti-gun anecdotes, giving viewers a false impression about the effects of gun ownership in Americahttp://www.cnsnews.com/ViewCulture.asp?Page=/Culture/archive/200512/CUL20051230a.html

For whatever it's worth.

-AndyB

spacemanspiff
December 30, 2005, 01:54 PM
havent watched it yet, but i'm assuming MTV chose the subjects for this 'documentary' that would intentionally cast a bad light on gunowners.

didnt our old friend Betty get interviewed for this piece some time back?

Carl N. Brown
December 30, 2005, 04:19 PM
One Hispanic ex-gangsta, reformed, working to change attitudes.
One black gangsta, donwannaworkatjob githismoneyondastreetwiddagun.
One white chick college student nearly raped, getting gun out of fear.
One white clean-cut ethical hunter guy, deserving to be on Outdoor Life Network instead of MTV.

I have known white trash criminals on my "'hood" streets AND a black
ethical hunter at my gun club, so thanks MTV for supporting stereotypes.
80,000,000 gun owners, 400,000 gun felons, that's what, one felon per
200 gun owners. Very balanced two per two.

OK, it could have been worse and I have seen worse on CNN and Fox as
"news" about guns. The rural white family looks like some of my rural
white relatives: perfectly sane and not the "Deliverence" stereotype
beloved of blue staters and Hollywood.

Edit it all down to the guy going hunting in Alaska and you have 10 minutes
of good video. Some of the commercial breaks outlasted the timer on my
VCR's pause mode and I had to re-hit the record key when the show finally
did come back on (that never happended with X Files or Farscape :(
MTV = mostly commercials television :confused: ).

"Lucky" the gangsta exposed himself with all his "street-wise" street dumb
talk. And he gets a break and blows it after his lawyer telling him don't do
anything stupid after she got him off (acquitted, guilt not proven).

Now VPC or HCI would have Lucky break down and cry THE EVIL GUN
INDUSTRY MADE ME DO IT. There was none of that that I noticed.
The hispanic ex-gangsta was going around trying to change the attitudes
and actions of people involved in gangs.

Showing the girl pick out a gun, then cutting to her walking out with it:
W H A T - A - C H E A T !
If they had shown the typical gun purchase here in Tennessee: -- the filling
out the 4473 form; the thumb-print the Instant Check Form; the call to the
instant check system; (busy signal); now we're through; reading off name,
ID number, gun type, etcetera; waiting; fingers drumming on counter top;
OK, you're approved, free to go; -- the show would have been two hours
long.

I may want to review the tape before I recycle it just to clear up a point:
one, was she carrying the gun in the bar? For a long time in Tennessee,
you could not carry where alcohol was sold (even off-premises); after
several baby-step changes, now you cannot carry where alchol is sold
for on-premises consumption. Yes, some states allow carry in bars IF YOU
do NOT drink. I am not sure about the girl's jurisdiction. That is not clear
in the video as some have pointed out.

A very revealing look at gangster attitudes, a hopeful look at a person
trying to change attitudes and actions on the streets, an iffy look at
a self defender and a surprisingly fair look at a trophy hunter. Very mixed.

KONY
December 30, 2005, 06:32 PM
The Girl with the CCW, did scare me a bit by putting that Glock 19?? in her purse with all the junk to roll around


It was a Kahr actually. Think it was a K9.

Bill2k1
December 30, 2005, 07:06 PM
Can't CCW in Wisconsin. To me, that's about as "gun control" as it gets. :cuss:

CCW is the only thing you can't do. You have to look at the fact that we can use semi-auto rilfes for hunting, own silencers and all of that fun stuff. No Firearms Owner cards or anything. I too would like CCW, but I dont think Wisconsin has gun control by any means. Its just a matter of time for CCW.

Trip20
December 30, 2005, 08:06 PM
Bill2k1 - it's all about perspective. Unfortunately, due to the frustration I feel regarding the CCW legislation up for approval - it's "glass half-empty" time for me. You're right, there are many wonderful things about WI and guns.

I'd be more than happy to trade up hunting with semi-auto rifles, if I could carry a darned old sidearm. I use bolt-action :)

Bill2k1
December 30, 2005, 08:27 PM
Bill2k1 - it's all about perspective. Unfortunately, due to the frustration I feel regarding the CCW legislation up for approval - it's "glass half-empty" time for me. You're right, there are many wonderful things about WI and guns.

I'd be more than happy to trade up hunting with semi-auto rifles, if I could carry a darned old sidearm. I use bolt-action :)

I have been trying to wrap my head around CCW. It is going to be weird knowing that there will be more guns than normal at the grocery store (not a bad thing). I guess I need to buy something a bit smaller than my full size handguns. I just spent 20 minutes trying to figure out how to carry my g17, but I can't prevent it from printing. Guess its an excuse to buy another gun :)

buy guns
December 30, 2005, 10:03 PM
rerun starting now

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