Black Lawmakers Vow to Repeal Georgia Voter Law


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Phantom Warrior
December 29, 2005, 06:02 PM
Black Lawmakers Vow to Repeal Georgia Voter Law (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051229/ap_on_el_st_lo/voter_id)

What do you guys think? Would MLK protest having to show an ID to vote? (And should I care?)

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dasmi
December 29, 2005, 06:05 PM
Why are black lawmakers worried about people having to show ID?
Aren't black americans legal citizens? Of course they are. So everyone just needs to shut the hell up.

"I don't want there to be a hardship any more than necessary for voters, but I don't think it's too much to ask that when you come in to vote, you help us see that you are who you say you are," Staton said. He added: "Most Georgians think this is common sense, including African-Americans."
Makes sense to me.

Biker
December 29, 2005, 06:28 PM
Could it be that Blacks are finally beginning to see that many jobs are being taken by illegal immigrants who, btw, are able to vote, legally or not? I don't blame them a bit and in fact feel just as violated by this travesty.
Biker

Azrael256
December 29, 2005, 06:28 PM
Find me a state ID that's free, and I'll agree with you.

longeyes
December 29, 2005, 06:29 PM
Another misguided crusade. Black legislators in GA have lots else to be concerned about. If people really can't afford the ID, give it to 'em free.

odysseus
December 29, 2005, 06:45 PM
Another misguided crusade. Black legislators in GA have lots else to be concerned about. If people really can't afford the ID, give it to 'em free.

Agreed. I don't know why someone would be against verifying a person to minimize risk on a person voting several times at poll stations. Maybe we need indelible ink on their fingers then? What's this all about I wonder....:rolleyes:

neoncowboy
December 29, 2005, 07:58 PM
I have to display an ID to buy a handgun...right? Why shouldn't people have to show an ID to vote? Owning a gun is a more fundamental right than voting.

HonorsDaddy
December 29, 2005, 08:53 PM
I have to display an ID to buy a handgun...right? Why shouldn't people have to show an ID to vote? Owning a gun is a more fundamental right than voting.
Wasnt too long ago that requiring an American citizen to show ID before purchasing a firearm would have been met with some pretty stiff resistance.

Now we happily do so and suggest that the same restrictions should be applied to our other "freedoms". We also lambast those who have the audacity to suggest that those restrictions are an encroachment upon our rights.

That being said, since personal honor is as rare as hen's teeth these days, there should be some form of identifier that a person has voted - the indelible ink is actually not a bad idea.

Preacherman
December 29, 2005, 09:06 PM
Find me a state ID that's free, and I'll agree with you.

Azrael, the Georgia legislation specifically provides for free ID to those who can't afford to pay the (very reasonable) charge involved. The "cost" thing is a red herring used by those opposed to the use of ID for voting.

neoncowboy
December 29, 2005, 09:09 PM
Oh, I didn't mean to sound like I endorse the necessity of ID-to-vote because after all, it's OK that we have to show a ID to buy a handgun...

I see having to show an ID to buy a handgun as an imposition on my liberty. Making someone show an ID to vote seems sort of logically necessary:
1. voting, to be fair and equal, necessitates that one person only vote once
2. that can't be ensured without knowing who is registered to vote and who votes
3. therefore, requiring an ID to vote is necessary to ensure fairness in the election process.

I wrote a email to a local talk show host about this earlier this year (we're in GA, BTW):
I got angry this evening watching some 'voter rights activist' on the TV news.

She explained about how voting is a most basic constitutional right and that it is wrong to place any obstacle in front of it. She was indignant.

Then I remembered how...
I must have a state issued permit to carry my handgun. That permit costs $15 and I have to spend another $23 on a background check/fingerprinting to get it. This requires me to have ID and go, in person, to the magistrate court during business hours and to the sheriff's office during restricted hours for the fingerprints. If I have ever been convicted of a crime, no dice. That constitutionally protected right is gone. I wait for about 4 months and my permit to exercise my constitutionally protected right comes in the mail...even though the law specifies I must receive it in 90 days.

Can you imagine the uproar if we restricted voting to people who had no criminal record? Charged $40 for a voting permit? Made people wait 90 days for one?

Why is it acceptable that this many layers of obstruction be placed between me and my 2nd Amendment rights, but a picture ID being required to vote is 'unconstitutional'.

And why is a court willing to place a restraining order on GA's ID-to-vote law, but not on it's concealed carry law?

Standing Wolf
December 29, 2005, 09:19 PM
I've been asked not merely to show, but hand over my driver's license every time I've voted in Colorado. That's one reason elections here are much cleaner than those in some other states.

HD
December 29, 2005, 10:34 PM
we are in desperate need a voter id law in kali...
the 'black':barf: churches preregister hundreds/thousands of phoney ID's in every county , then haul busloads of their 'people' to the various polling stations to vote multiple times thruout the day ...
its an 'open secret' that no one will challange for fear of being labeled a "RASSSISSYIST" and politically destroyed , so 'they' get away with it every year...:cuss:
the 'messkins' are starting to pull the same chitt...:cuss:

tegemu
December 29, 2005, 10:41 PM
We Floridians, their immediate southern neighbors, do it gladly to protect our privelege of voting. I find it inconceivable that this is a VALID issue.

Lupinus
December 29, 2005, 10:50 PM
If you are so stupid, ignorant, or criminal you can't get over having to show a valid ID to vote....frankly I don't want you throwing your vote in the pot for who runs the country.

AJ Dual
December 29, 2005, 11:00 PM
We're trying to pass voter ID here in WI. The 2004 presidential election in WI while not the smallest by percentage, it was the smallest margin by total number of votes of any state.

The number of unverifiable votes (i.e. no such address, not a residential address, does not match the name actualy at the address, etc.) in Milwaukee alone was larger than the margin, yet "There was no detectable pattern of fraud" according to those investigating after the fact.

:rolleyes:

By and large, one party is the benificiary of vote fraud in this country, whether it's in the inner city, the graveyard vote, or college students "double dipping" at school and in their state of residence, I think we all know which way those votes are going.

BigRobT
December 29, 2005, 11:10 PM
I've been asked not merely to show, but hand over my driver's license every time I've voted in Colorado. That's one reason elections here are much cleaner than those in some other states.
The first year I voted in Minnesota, I had just retired from the Navy. I had to have someone vouch for me, which is legal here. They accept several things for voting, an electric or other utility bill, a state issued ID card, Driver's License, someone with an ID that will vouch for the voter. It has brought some contention to elections here, as a certain political party would bus in others from out of state and have them vote here. All in all, I prefer that our elections, no matter what state, require some proof of citizenship at a minimum. Be it birth certificate, passport or state issued ID. Those without the means should be able to get a state issued ID card for free.

Personally, I don't like the utility bill, the vouching or anything without a picture ID. I am a registered voter now and it does not bother me ONE IOTA to show my ID to assure the poll people of who I am and that I will only vote once.

k_dawg
December 29, 2005, 11:12 PM
IMHO: not requiring positive identification and verification of a voter severely impacts MY voting rights. Any illegal vote only serves to dillute my vote.

dolanp
December 29, 2005, 11:18 PM
ID is a fundamental part of exercising your right to vote, unlike other rights. Democracy can't work if elections are corrupt and an individual can vote more than once, therefore it is absolutely necessary to verify if someone has voted and ID is pretty much the only way to tell if you are a valid voter. I suppose you could use some kind of anonymized system with voter cards. In TX you have to have ID and a registration card.

mountainclmbr
December 29, 2005, 11:55 PM
The dead Democrats are being repressed unless they can vote in every state.

AJ Dual
December 30, 2005, 12:11 AM
BTW, I forgot to add:

WI has same-day same-minute voter registration. No ID required.

I can at least see states that have ID to register, but not to vote, but neither?

Come on....

kahr40
December 30, 2005, 12:27 AM
Verifying you are a registered voter makes perfect sense to me. Picture ID seems the most practical.

C. Rabbit
December 30, 2005, 12:48 AM
An ID for voting is absolutely essential.

We had a enough fraud in Washington in 2004 that the democrat Christine Gregoire got elected, thanks to double voters, dead voters, felons voting, etc. The democrats passed a meaningless 'reform' bill where anything, even a utility bill, could be used to prove one's identity, and are now trying to pass more legislation to protect voters who list a fraudulent address for their registration.

I find it somewhat ironic that only a certain party huffs and puffs with indignation whenever laws are passed to make sure only legal voters vote.

CR

Headless Thompson Gunner
December 30, 2005, 12:48 AM
The ironic thing is that the folks who oppose voter ID are the same folks who complain about elction fraud (when they lose).

Why would any honest politician be opposed to measures that ensure clean/fair elections?

Crosshair
December 30, 2005, 02:44 AM
Here in North Dakota you can get an ID for free. It's the drivers license that costs money. It costs $5 and if you can't aford that every four years for a drivers license, then you probably don't own a car. Nobody sees this as a problem here. Plus we use good technology here to count our votes, Optically scanned paper ballots. The system makes counting faster and leaves a paper trail if a recount is needed. It also rejects invalid ballots, allowing someone who made a mistake to correct the error.

Firethorn
December 30, 2005, 03:35 AM
Here in North Dakota you can get an ID for free. It's the drivers license that costs money. It costs $5 and if you can't aford that every four years for a drivers license, then you probably don't own a car. Nobody sees this as a problem here. Plus we use good technology here to count our votes, Optically scanned paper ballots. The system makes counting faster and leaves a paper trail if a recount is needed. It also rejects invalid ballots, allowing someone who made a mistake to correct the error.

+1

I was impressed when I saw the machines. They looked almost like shredders attached to a garbage pail. :D

Further inspection revealed the system, and it's the best I've seen or heard of so far.

I also vaguely recall Nebraska's ID card(as opposed to driver's license) being free.

They also used paper ballots. I'm not sure now, but I was convinced then that they used the school's standardized test grading machines to count the votes, as the sheets were identical. Of course, the machines were still too large and expensive for individual polling stations back then.

ball3006
December 30, 2005, 12:15 PM
an ID card, how do the apply and collect their welfare and food stamps.............chris3

Crosshair
December 30, 2005, 01:04 PM
an ID card, how do the apply and collect their welfare and food stamps.............chris3
Good point.:confused:

c_yeager
December 30, 2005, 01:17 PM
Why are black lawmakers worried about people having to show ID?
Aren't black americans legal citizens? Of course they are. So everyone just needs to shut the hell up.


Makes sense to me.

When did Americans become required to present a piece of paper to identify themselves as such? Did I just miss National ID? Papers Please?

Glock Glockler
December 30, 2005, 05:24 PM
When did Americans become required to present a piece of paper to identify themselves as such? Did I just miss National ID? Papers Please?

How does one know if someone is an American? Should foreign nationals be able to vote, should Americans be able to vote multiple times?

You don't have to show you papers to walk down the street, you only need to show them to vote, and if you don't like it no one is forcing you to vote. It's your choice.

Jeff Timm
December 30, 2005, 05:41 PM
Coming from Cleveland Ohio I firmly believe a Republican has to get 70% of the vote just to break even with the Democrat corruption machine.

This is just proof that the Democrats can't win an honest election ANYWHERE in this country. And proof that they all know about the corruption.

Geoff
Who notes the investigations in Cuyahoga County Ohio. And the lack of executions. :banghead:

MarkDido
December 30, 2005, 09:06 PM
When did Americans become required to present a piece of paper to identify themselves as such? Did I just miss National ID? Papers Please?

Chuck...

In a perfect world, ID would not be necessary because everyone would be truthfull and honest.

It's not a perfect world

Adapt :D

RioShooter
December 31, 2005, 11:38 PM
If the voting laws are made too strict, the 1000's of residents in Chicago's cemeteries won't be able to vote for the Democratic Machine.

Chuck

drinks
January 1, 2006, 12:35 AM
ID is a fundamental part of exercising your right to vote, unlike other rights. Democracy can't work if elections are corrupt and an individual can vote more than once, therefore it is absolutely necessary to verify if someone has voted and ID is pretty much the only way to tell if you are a valid voter. I suppose you could use some kind of anonymized system with voter cards. In TX you have to have ID and a registration card.
Dolanp;
The US is not a democracy, which is a tyrany of the majority, but a constitutional republic.
I am from Texas too, the demorats are very adept at multiple votes by dead persons and wetbacks, however, the republicans. lead by deLay and his little buddy, Perry,are rapidly becoming as adept as the demorats at stuffing a ballot box.

Just shows we are an equal opportunity society. :eek: :barf:

Unnecessary pejoratives removed by Art

RangerHAAF
January 1, 2006, 03:00 PM
The law referenced is currently under appeal because a federal judge located in Rome, GA wrote that it was unconstitutional. I think that it will eventually be upheld but these actions by liberal activist judges are minor roadblocks that will be straightened out by the courts of appeal and SCOTUS.

I don't think that the legislators who are vowing to repeal it have the juice to because they're liberal Democrats and for now the legislature's majority sits with Republicans.

Jim March
January 1, 2006, 03:53 PM
It's difficult for me to comment on this because I'm an employee of a non-profit that specializes in election reform - but our focus is on electronic voting issues, I don't think we've taken an official position on voter ID yet - www.blackboxvoting.org

Speaking personally, I'm in favor of ID too so long as the ID is free. The "free" part is necessary because of the historical use of "poll taxes" to disenfranchise minority voters. If it hadn't been for that previous issue, there wouldn't be any controversy over voter ID today.

So understand this: SOME of the supporters of no-ID voting are honestly concerned that the cost of ID could go up some time in the future and turn into a de-facto poll tax. In that sense their position is much like ours with regards any costs payable to the gov't for gun ownership/carry: they're defending a civil right with exactly the same tactics we use and for similar reasons.

I respect that view, but don't agree with it SO LONG as the ID is free and stays that way.

Then again, some want to cheat and I have no respect for that at all.

(Some want to cheat at the "retail level" to counter what they see as "wholesale level" vote fraud via rigging the voting machines. I don't respect that either, it's NOT the right solution.)

So when you debate this, you probably won't know for sure that your debate opponent is a cheater. I recommend NOT suggesting they are unless you're sure, and at least respect the "poll tax issue" side of the discussion.

Crosshair
January 1, 2006, 08:09 PM
As far as I see it. Make the general ID be free and have social workers come over to check papers, take a photo. Then drop off the ID a week later. Mabee make the IDs valid for a little longer than 4 years so you don't have to be sending people around to the same houses all the time.

Either that or get a bus and pick up everyone that needs an ID and then have an "ID only" day at the DMV. Have a DJ there to keep everyone entertained, have a snack bar and soda for sale. You have people checking peoples papers, give them a sheet to give the lady/guy at the counter and they take you're photo and give you're "ID only" ID card.

IndianaDean
January 1, 2006, 08:47 PM
I'm against having to show a photo id to vote. More power to them.

mountainclmbr
January 1, 2006, 10:32 PM
To travel on an airplane I have to show ID. To rent a car I have to show ID. To rent a movie I have to show ID. Is voting really the least important thing? I think we all know which side always cheats. Is this just giving them a free pass to destroy freedom?

IndianaDean
January 1, 2006, 11:04 PM
I don't think we all know which side always cheats. Please elaborate.

Lupinus
January 1, 2006, 11:09 PM
I don't buy the free part. How many people can't afford a lisence? How bout just one of them little ID cards that cost next to nothing? Pay for your ID like everyone else has to. Mine wasn't free I don't think you should get a free one just because you only want one to vote. Now if you need to register to vote or get a voter registration no, that should be free. But your ID? No.

c_yeager
January 2, 2006, 12:52 PM
To travel on an airplane I have to show ID. To rent a car I have to show ID. To rent a movie I have to show ID. Is voting really the least important thing?

No, but it is the only thing on your list that is a constitutional right, and it doesnt involve a financial transaction between private parties. The fact that it *is* so important is why the ID issue is tricky.

Most of what people are asking for is quite easily handled by voter registration cards, which dont generally serve as ID for any other purpose. I really dont see what is so wrong with that existing system.

Brandon
January 2, 2006, 01:33 PM
Remember on "The Breakfast Club" when the nerd was asked why he had a fake ID? "So I can vote"

If they can farm out cemeterys why can't they set up a fake ID factory in someone's basement. That actually sounds easier to me than wandering cemeterys and bussing people in.

I am in Georgia, the jury is still out for me. Fundamentally, I am against it. But as mentioned earlier it is not a perfect world.

The last time they "redid the districts" to get rid of certain conservative republicans still turns my insides, in my opinion they are capable of anything.

jnojr
January 2, 2006, 05:34 PM
Find me a state ID that's free, and I'll agree with you.

No such thing. They can be paid for up-front when the ID is obtained, or they can be paid for through the back door via taxes everyone pays.

I prefer a pay-as-you-go society... I need an ID, I pay the fee, and I'm done. Otherwise, I pay year after year after year so everyone else can get one. Also, the fee is a one-time deal... the tax will wind up getting spent somewhere else, and then they'll have to raise taxes to keep paying for IDs.

Derby FALs
January 2, 2006, 05:43 PM
Free for one then free for all. Then they can take the heat for tax increases along with their scheme.

Optical Serenity
January 2, 2006, 05:53 PM
Azrael, the Georgia legislation specifically provides for free ID to those who can't afford to pay the (very reasonable) charge involved. The "cost" thing is a red herring used by those opposed to the use of ID for voting.

Very well said Preacherman. You CAN get free ID's in Georgia already, I know, as a Police Officer, as I have transported people to the license bureau to pick one up (long ridiculous story here) but anyway, people absolutely should have to show ID to vote.

cracked butt
January 3, 2006, 03:03 AM
I'd go one step further: show proof of property ownership to vote. But that's just me. ;)

odysseus
January 3, 2006, 03:08 AM
I'd go one step further: show proof of property ownership to vote. But that's just me. ;)

That would mean then that only property owners pay the taxes. No taxation without representation.

cracked butt
January 3, 2006, 03:39 AM
That would mean then that only property owners pay the taxes. No taxation without representation.

Exactly!

It would also mean that the voters will take a very hard look at all of the government services and expenditures and serve their own interests by sending the socialist politicians out of town on the next train. Contrast this with the system we have now where everyone votes for their favorite services and social programs whether or not they contribute anything to pay for them.

Considering what I pay in taxes and the fact that I own multiple properties in more than 1 state (multiple votes???:evil: ) You'd have a very hard time convincing me that this would be a bad system.

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