Visited my father for Christmas...


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bogie
December 30, 2005, 11:37 AM
...and we did a lot of talking.

My father was a libertarian before a lot of you folks were born. Hard core - campaign, write, and vote.

And he says that he is no longer voting libertarian. While in theory, the stance is the best, at the present he is no longer concerned with theory.

"When I saw that second plane fly into the other building, I knew the world had changed."

His stance, and I _greatly_ respect his thoughts on politics and history, is that we're at war. And that the middle east will either be assimilated into the rest of the world, and brought into at least the 20th century, or it's going to end up paved.

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SkunkApe
December 30, 2005, 12:31 PM
It's nice that you were able to visit your Dad for Christmas. I visited my father also. It was a nice visit.

Alex45ACP
December 30, 2005, 01:06 PM
:confused:

9/11 was caused by government meddling in other countries' affairs, something that never would have occured under a Libertarian administration...

R.H. Lee
December 30, 2005, 01:24 PM
9/11 was caused by government meddling in other countries' affairs, Bullcrap. 9/11 was in retaliation for the sewerpipe of perversion and pornography flowing from the western world.

I call your absurd statement, and raise you an absurd statement.

JerryM
December 30, 2005, 01:29 PM
We do gain wisdom with age. Some here will also learn the futility of voting for a third party that has no chance of winning.
It's your vote to use or throw away as you will, but don't whine when the Dems get in with their moral bankruptcy, and gun control mentality.

Jerry

Rem700SD
December 30, 2005, 01:42 PM
I believe it was Churchill who stated something along these lines; to be young and not idealistic is to be heartless. To be old and not conservative is to be brainless.

Old Dog
December 30, 2005, 03:14 PM
9/11 was caused by government meddling in other countries' affairs, something that never would have occured under a Libertarian administration...Oh, really? Please (attempt to) support this statement using empirical evidence and logical reasoning ...

(Actually, R.H. Lee, your statement could be much more easily supported, based on writings, speeches and videos of many of the Islamic jihadists, than Alex45acp's remark.)

Master Blaster
December 30, 2005, 03:25 PM
Actually 9/11 was caused by the western world allowing wealthy educated Muslums from middle eastern countries to attend Universities, and become corrupted by our sex crazed culture and crass consumerism.

They then went home and asked Allah for forgiveness for their whoring and sinning. Allah and their immams told them they could attone and earn a place in heaven by killing all the infidels and bringing the Glory of Allah to the entire world, except for the women of course.

Think about it, Osama Bin Laden, Aihmahn al Zawahiri, Mohammed Atta, all rich well educated in the west. The 9/11 terrorists all well educated and from wealthy westernized well educated families.

All return to Islaam and decide to destroy the west.

Standing Wolf
December 30, 2005, 06:31 PM
9/11 was caused by government meddling in other countries' affairs, something that never would have occured under a Libertarian administration...

Actually 9/11 was caused by the western world allowing wealthy educated Muslums from middle eastern countries to attend Universities, and become corrupted by our sex crazed culture and crass consumerism.

The attacks against America of September 11, 2001 were caused by Islamic terrorist savages.

gunfan
December 30, 2005, 06:39 PM
"If you are young, and you aren't liberal, you have no heart... If you are old and you are liberal, you have no brain."

Scott

cropcirclewalker
December 30, 2005, 06:51 PM
Bullcrap. 9/11 was in retaliation for the sewerpipe of perversion and pornography flowing from the western world.

I call your absurd statement, and raise you an absurd statement. Call.

"The reason they attacked us is that they hate our freedoms."
"We must give up some liberty for some essential safety."

Alex45ACP, It's one absurd statement to you. Call or fold.

gripper
December 30, 2005, 06:51 PM
I thought 9/11 was caused by 19 ???????s who decided they could get 72 underage playthings for eternity by murdering as many other people that the more senior ???????s told them were Dhimni,infidels ;or otherwise folks Allah did not want to keep around.This was compounded by our hot to lukewarm support of the only ME nation to even come close to not being either A)Insane,murderous theocracies, or B)Insane ,Secular/Stalinist-gangster murderous dictatorships. (Makes you kind of miss Franco,doesn't it).
THey( the ???????s) hate and murder anyone who is not like them(intolerant,pushy,"My belief trumps yours" types),andwill murder any who live amongst them but do not subordinate themselves to the dysfunctional,death obsessed delusional cult of pedophiles,unhygenic doofuses that have hijacked a major religion.
Oh, and it bears repeating;they'd kill any one in this country irrespective of their beliefs,voting record,espoused ideals or "CAIR" bumperstickers.Our treasonous members of Senate (like the bastards from my state!),Congress,and the mediawould last about as long as it took foor the headsman to work his way down the line to them.

Art's Grammaw was here.

rhubarb
December 30, 2005, 10:41 PM
I call your absurd statement, and raise you an absurd statement.

That's the THR we know and love.:D

Chris Rhines
December 30, 2005, 10:56 PM
Your father is, well, wrong. Can't really put it any simpler than that.

- Chris

Lupinus
December 30, 2005, 10:56 PM
I still haven't found a party that truly represents me totaly and completly. I hold a lot of libertarian views but then I am agianst quite a few of them.

Why cant we jsut have a party called the common sense party? That would be good :D

Alex45ACP
December 30, 2005, 11:21 PM
Don't just take my word for it...

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/terrorism/international/fatwa_1996.html

f4t9r
December 30, 2005, 11:26 PM
I am glad you spent time with your Father on Christmas

Old Dog
December 30, 2005, 11:48 PM
bogie: It's nice you got to spend time with your dad. I too spent recent time with my aging father (don't know how much longer I'll have him around to listen to); isn't it interesting to see how even the older generation's views change over time? They've borne witness to an awful lot of history ...

By the way, Alex45ACP, how can I put this to you gently? 9/11 was NOT caused by U.S. government "meddling in other countries' affairs" ... 9/11 was a result of a fanatical, nay, lunatic fringe of Muslim extremists engaging in a despicable act of terrorism. We did not cause 9/11. Now, OBL and his followers may have caused 9/11, but I'll repeat, we did not cause 9/11.

If you did something I didn't like ... and I punched out your little brother, as a way to get back at you, since I could not directly fight you like a man, and I also wanted my friends to see how "tough" I was, that I was doing something -- did you cause my assault on your brother? No, you did not cause the assault. I caused the assault as I initiated it of my own free will.

cropcirclewalker
December 31, 2005, 12:22 AM
:rolleyes:

Biker
December 31, 2005, 09:59 AM
I still haven't found a party that truly represents me totaly and completly. I hold a lot of libertarian views but then I am agianst quite a few of them.

Why cant we jsut have a party called the common sense party? That would be good :D
Sign me up, man.
Biker

JerryM
December 31, 2005, 10:32 AM
Sign me up, man.
Biker

You are too small a party to get elected so you would throw away your vote.Might as well give up and vote Republican.:D :D

Jerry:banghead:

GoRon
December 31, 2005, 11:08 AM
9/11 was caused by government meddling in other countries' affairs, something that never would have occured under a Libertarian administration...

You guys can hold your breath until you turn blue, stomp your feet all you want. We will never be isolationist ever again. The global economy genie is out of the bottle.

If by chance we tried to be isololationist our enemies would sense weakness not only in us but in our interests around the globe. It would be open season in S Korea, Taiwan, Israel, former Soviet states, Iraq and Afghanistan. The ramifications to the world economy would be devastating. Our economy would grind to a halt.

Finally the isolationists would have their utopia, what was left of it.

Fly320s
December 31, 2005, 11:37 AM
For those that missed it, this was sarcasm:
Quote:
9/11 was caused by government meddling in other countries' affairs,

Bullcrap. 9/11 was in retaliation for the sewerpipe of perversion and pornography flowing from the western world.
as evidenced by this statement:
I call your absurd statement, and raise you an absurd statement.

Lupinus
December 31, 2005, 11:56 AM
You are too small a party to get elected so you would throw away your vote.Might as well give up and vote Republican.
No I would focus my resources in battles I could win to gain strength, power, and size. Then move on to bigger fish when I was able to do so. Fighting a battle you know you can't win isn't smart and a total and complete waste of resources. A small third party with no chance of winning fronting a candidate for president is a waste of time and resources. A better use of them would be for local and state elections. It also hurts you where you did stand a chance because resources you could have used there were wasted elsewhere in a battle you knew you would loose provided you have a little god given common sense. You deploy for battles where you can win, not thrust the bulk of your army in a battle that it is clear from the start you will not win, loosing that and because of the lost resources the smaller battles too.

It isn't surrender, its a tactical retreat :neener:

thumper723
December 31, 2005, 01:04 PM
I think the best way for the LP to become more viable is to focus on the local/state races first. Do the research, find where our best bets are, and push hard in those areas.

After a couple years of having LP candidates in office, and the sky not falling, (of course, this is contingent on the person in office being competent, and staying true to their principles) the general public will have more interest.

Find a couple US Rep seats that are up for election, in an area where the LP has a fighting chance. Sad to say, it is not here, but maybe where YOU live. Again, having 1 or 2 in the HOR, and people seeing their voting records and actions, provided they are competent and vote on principle/reason not becasue a poll says something.

Maybe in 10-20 years, a couple of Senators, 30-50 reps and some Governors is not unrealistic. But, it needs to start small, and work up.

I know a lot of people on this board would love to have a 33/33/34 split in the senate (and a similar split in the HOR) in 6 years, but we need to be realistic. Idealistic is OK, but you need to keep a handle on reality here.

MechAg94
December 31, 2005, 01:51 PM
"If you are young, and you aren't liberal, you have no heart... If you are old and you are liberal, you have no brain."

Scott
Good quote, but the "liberal" he was thinking of then bears little resemblance to liberals of today.

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