Anybody packing up and leaving San Francisco?


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1911JMB
December 30, 2005, 11:25 PM
I have relatives that plan on moving out of San Francisco if the NRA doesn't beat down proposition H. I was wondering if any SF area THR members had the same intentions.

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Longbow
December 31, 2005, 12:12 AM
I was there just days ago, visiting. While the place was really nice, I don't think I wanna live there for a number of reasons, not just RKBA concerns. Their heavy traffic is one...

GILROY
December 31, 2005, 01:33 AM
Spent Christmas there. It is scenic, but I find it to be just sort of "strange" as far as people and community. Too many wierd belief, religious and value systems in one place. I found it almost depressing when you stop focusing on the scenic and looking at the people. There are other big cities that I really enjoy visiting. I live in and love Atlanta. But too many people there seem to be wierded out. Its a 2 class society for the most part, mostly due to the cost of living. The very rich and the pretty poor. Most of the younger folks starting careers leave. Murder rates are on the rise. Mostly people who know each other. They probably shoudn't be allowed to carry. That would be scarry. OK to visit, once or twice, but would not want to live there. Definitely not raise a family there.

gudel
December 31, 2005, 02:17 AM
did he say packing up? :D :evil:

campbellcj
December 31, 2005, 02:50 AM
Ya know, it's actually a nice town...just in need of a population transfusion!

MCgunner
December 31, 2005, 09:11 AM
I couldn't afford the rent there. I wouldn't live there if I could. I still enjoy watching my copy of "Dirty Harry", though. :D

armoredman
December 31, 2005, 10:14 AM
I was posted in that area from 87-89...gah. You could NEVER pay me enough to move there, ever. Some nice resteraunts, some very interesting places to visit, more freaks and weirdos per square mile than any other city I ever visited.

Karate
December 31, 2005, 01:45 PM
What is proposition H?

Texfire
December 31, 2005, 02:14 PM
What is proposition H?

I have no idea, but it kinda sounds like politician for, "Bend over, I have something for you."

Tex

sfhogman
December 31, 2005, 03:09 PM
Hell no. I've lived here almost 40 years, work here, own a house here, and I'm not leaving until I retire and feel like leaving. I will not be run out by a bunch of airheaded moonbats.


Jeff

1911JMB
December 31, 2005, 04:36 PM
Just got home and noticed my thread was moved. Kind of silly, since prop H is a turn them all in HANDGUN ban.

Standing Wolf
December 31, 2005, 04:40 PM
I'll probably always have a soft spot for Chinatown, North Beach, and Baker Beach; then again, I'll probably always have a soft spot for the first girl I ever kissed, too.

We move on.

Johnny_Yuma
December 31, 2005, 04:52 PM
but I'm always strangely happy when the wheels of that big ole jet airliner lift off to carry me back to Planet Earth.

For those who expressed puzzlement at Proposition H: It was a referendum that the people of San Francisco voted in with a resounding "yes." Among other things, it outlaws the possession of handguns by San Francisco residents within the city limits. People from, say, OAKLAND are welcome to carry their handguns through San Francisco provided they are otherwise doing so lawfully. Basically, the people of San Francisco voted to give up their handguns but allow non-residents to carry theirs into the city:scrutiny:.

dracphelan
December 31, 2005, 04:55 PM
I have friends who moved back to Texas well before prop H was an idea. In Texas, they are considered tree hugging hippies. In San Francisco, they were considered right wing wack jobs. I don't think I will ever set foot in that city.

atek3
December 31, 2005, 05:00 PM
eh, I live in berkeley... it's a little better (believe it or not)

GoBrush
December 31, 2005, 05:31 PM
I feel sorry for real people living in that area. If I lived there I would certainly be doing all I could to get out. After all good people are out someone please put a 20' fence around the place and shut off the lights.:D

GILROY
December 31, 2005, 08:02 PM
QUOTE "eh, I live in berkeley... it's a little better (believe it or not)

------------


That is a scarry thought. I spent Christmas week in Berkeley at the Clairmont Hotel. Took a couple of walks down College Ave. and Ashby St. OK, I admit, I only passed mayby one freak or wierdo per block on average. I guess that is a slight improvement over downtown. BTW: My sister and her family live there and my family was visiting. Her husband has a VERY profitable business there, so I am forced to claim family there and am compelled to visit. Else I would not go near that circus.

Oldnamvet
December 31, 2005, 08:48 PM
SF would be a beautiful place if it weren't for some of the people. I went through there twice, in 70 and 71, in uniform. On my way to RVN and my way back. Got cursed and spit on both times. I really wanted to take a couple of them out - especially on the return trip - but cops around seemed to be enjoying it.

mountainclmbr
December 31, 2005, 10:17 PM
I try my best not to go to Kommifornia. I have business there, but every budget cut I have to plan for gets the travel cut first. I get sick thinking that the hotel and rental car taxes go to pay for the socialist overthrow of the USA. I buy nothing unnecessary there. They will be travelling to Colorado after I replan for the next budget cut. Buck knives moved from Kommifornia to Idaho. Good for them! When most working people leave they will be in a world of hurt. I predict they will start blaming neighboring states.

DevLcL
December 31, 2005, 10:37 PM
I live somewhere else now but I grew up in SF. I hated it. I just happen to be caucasian (which is the minority in SF) and I just so happen to hang out with fellow caucasians which caused lots of problems for the "community" seems like every day a group of less fortunates would hassle us for one rediculous reason or another. I won't get too far into it but I've been through lots of hairy situations back in SF. Glad to be gone.

-Dev

jeff-10
December 31, 2005, 10:37 PM
I went there in September for about a week. I cannot honestly see why anyone would want to live in San Francisco or even California for that matter. I am not even sure how you would plan for retirement there. Seeing as how taxes and housing costs have to eat the average worker's salary up.

justsurvivingincalifornia
January 1, 2006, 02:34 AM
It seems like all the liberals have moved here from somewhere else. They have priced many of the locals like myself from buy or renting near or in SF. SF is no longer affordable to families with children any more. SF is far too tolerant of the homeless, drug addicts and drug dealers. Oh yes, many of the homeless are drug addicts just in case you want to know.

They tried to stop the local gun show from doing business here, but were unsuccessfully. The Cow Palace where the gun show held is in San Mateo County and is owned by the State of California. The last show I did see quite a few people buy shotguns.

All the Flower children came here, stayed and have ruined it for everyone else so donít blame us. Many people come here to use the social service that the city provides we see it all the time. In other part of the country they donít have that so that attract the parasite of the world to us.

This is a question I would like to ask all of you.

If this happened to you in an area you grew up in and had roots in what would you do?

Would you leave? Would resist? Would you fight(politically of course)?

This is another type SHTF situation that you all should consider.

Nematocyst
January 1, 2006, 02:51 AM
Spent Christmas there. It is scenic, but I find it to be just sort of "strange" as far as people and community. Too many wierd belief, religious and value systems in one place. I almost moved to Portland, OR recently, but backed out at the last minute for several reasons. One was that I couldn't find a suitable location for my business that was affordable.

Another was the same as you stated above: just too many circus acts juggling for attention.

Third, or was this first (?), was sitting (= 5 mph) in traffic for two hours on I-5 trying to get out of town on Friday afternoon.

No, thank you. I decided that my smaller city wasn't so bad after all.

A better balance of weird v. not weird, cheaper real estate & far easier to escape into the Cascades.

Nem

Ryder
January 1, 2006, 03:37 AM
If this happened to you in an area you grew up in and had roots in what would you do? Would you leave? Would resist?

Resist until I can leave. I have moved many times to better areas. I would not have done this for concern of my own safety but I had a family to raise. Subjecting my family to a life of violent encounters was not an option.

Stickjockey
January 1, 2006, 03:20 PM
What is proposition H?

What 1911JMB said. A full-up, turn-em-all-in ban on handguns. IIRC, it's on hold for now due to some legal red tape.

4v50 Gary
January 1, 2006, 04:01 PM
A relative was telling me that 10 public schools are closing in SF and that there are at least 10 private high schools that are operating (and they charge about $20-30k a year for tuition without board - gang, college is cheaper). Why the closure? Those with $$$ don't trust their kid's education to public schools so they send them to private schools. Middle class families are leaving because they can't afford SF either (figure average house is $750k and a lot of folks have been getting zero principal mortgages) and the quality of public education is down the toilet (CA ranks 46 out of the 50 states). Thus, the closure of schools in SF.

You've got homeless there and the leftists love them because it gives them a cause to rally behind (Guess how many leftists adopt a homeless? If you said, "Zero," you're right on the mark). Druggies? It's druggie heaven and the cops can't pop you for marijuana because the Public Health Department issues you cards saying it's legal to possess it. The District Attorney is easy on criminals and won't push for the death penalty for the murderer of SFPD Officer Issac Espinoza. Said killer used an assault weapon. Read that as selective-fire (full auto gang) military firearm and not some civilian lookalike that was banned in '89 by California. San Francisco is not family friendly and the uber-leftists make it even less so.

Jon Coppenbarger
January 1, 2006, 04:39 PM
I understand folks like to stay where they put down roots. I do not have a problem with that.

Not all parts of CA are hard to live in but the laws effect you every where and some places are very bad to live.

Maybe I am different as I had a dream of getting out for years but its easier to stay than to move as most of us know. From my family is here, to My job is here, to my friends and my kids friends are here. I do truely understand.

I looked like it as have a dream of living where I wanted and being a outdoor person I always wanted to live in a mountain state. I had a chance when I was 44 to move to CO with my job if I wanted to . It did not take me but a few seconds to make that decission. A month later I was living here and having a house built. First thing I did was get my Ca vehical plates changed.
A few months later I Walked into a gun shop and walked out with a handgun. Wow! That was different and now my elk tags were $35 a year instead of $350.

Now I lived in Foresthill and worked in North Highlands out side Sacramento and had that 1 hour commute as I did not like living in the city anymore. I lived 1/2 mile from the national forest and we truely had four seasons and the folks for the most part were friendly.
But we had the same problem most every body else had the cities with the filth made the laws for most everyone else and what you saw frisco do will sooner or later be state wide as far as laws go.

I have another dream now and I will do my first retirement in a little over 3 1/2 years from now. And it will take me someplace else I believe. I am thinking of somewhere in the middle of Montana. But have not ruled out northern new mexico or Wyoming. Going to take a trip up that way in like 07 to look around and maybe buy myself a home if I like it.

If you are happy where you are then stay but if you always wanted something else, its out there and all you have to do is take it. We only have one go around and I do not want to set back when I am very old and wished I had done it.

Bainx
January 1, 2006, 05:56 PM
SF= Stalin

Get over it folks

Mot45acp
January 1, 2006, 06:42 PM
I was born and raised in SF and Monterey bay areas. I knew something wasnt right but not what. When I hit 17 I was out on the first thing smokin. I have not been back since, nor will I return. The family that is still there isnt polite or rich enough for me to ever go back. May the few good people get out before the big one comes and ********** breaks off and falls into the sea.

MCgunner
January 1, 2006, 08:00 PM
I have friends who moved back to Texas well before prop H was an idea. In Texas, they are considered tree hugging hippies. In San Francisco, they were considered right wing wack jobs. I don't think I will ever set foot in that city.

http://www.southparkquotes.com/images/eric.gif

Cartman: Hippies.They're everywhere. They wanna save the earth, but all they do is smoke pot and smell bad.

losangeles
January 1, 2006, 08:08 PM
Hey, one doesn't live or leave a place just for one reason, whether it's tough gun laws or whatever. (OK, you can do it for a bunch of reasons! ;) )

I've found Cali to have a lot of creative people in some industries I've been involved with (hi tech, Internet). A few buddies who are into guns, too, are staying in Cali for a number of reasons, but one is that this is still a hot spot for hi tech entrepreneurs looking for venture capital. It wouldn't work going to Idaho b/c of better gun laws when trying to make something happen in hi tech. I've known many people become millionnaires here back in the Internet boom days and it's still happening to some extent.

Bacon
January 1, 2006, 08:12 PM
Yes, I'm leaving. Been planning it since long before the idiots in the SF Board of Supervisors thought up this last handgun ban.
I've been here 53 years & my Wife is born in San Francisco. It's a real shame to watch such a beautiful city overrun by vermin transplants. It finally became time to stop living in denile. San Francisco isn't for Americans anymore and the situation is getting out of hand. Prop H is just one of many reasons I'm getting out.

All the transplant easterners can have each other. I'm moving to the Carolinas!

Bacon
January 1, 2006, 08:22 PM
<> Art's Grammaw deployed the rolling pin heah.

Longbow
January 2, 2006, 01:33 AM
Maybe some of you haven't seen this:
<> and again...:)


:D :D

Toddman0025
January 26, 2006, 05:36 AM
I'm going to college in San Francisco, it's not all that bad. I am looking to move elsewhere once I'm finished with school...

However I will NOT be surrendering my handgun :neener:

ScottsGT
January 26, 2006, 09:23 AM
I too visited for a few days back in Sept. Great place to visit, but glad to be home! Could not believe the "Low income housing project" the tour bus driver showed us. It is as nice as some of the upscale apartments we have around here!
Hell no. I've lived here almost 40 years, work here, own a house here, and I'm not leaving until I retire and feel like leaving. I will not be run out by a bunch of airheaded moonbats.
Jeff


Go for it! San Fran needs more like you to turn the tide! BTW, Just how do you afford to own a house in San Fran? From the impression I got from the tours was that only long time familys or the extremely rich could afford to live in San Fran. If it is the latter, want to adopt a son? :D

slopemeno
January 26, 2006, 11:45 AM
You guys going to the same SF?

Homeless? Yeah, if you start engaging them in conversation you've already lost. And hey, they arent locals folks. Lotta accents that arent from the Mission, the Sunset,etc.

Got a relative with Diabetes? The cure is probably coming from there.

I see a heck of a lot of out of state plates at UCSF's vision center. You'd think Arizona and Nevada would be able to treat their eye care issues but I guess not.

Races? Folks there a -holes in every color of skin.

Traffic? Try leaving NYC, or LA, or Seattle for that matter on Friday. Sounds like you were heading east on 580 towards Tracy to me. My suggestion is go have dinner somewhere because it'll take the same ammount of time.

Frankly-the quality of life is pretty high there. You dont see a lot of kids. Mostly urban professionals. Owning a house isnt all that out of sight either. my wife and I arent rich but we made more than both our salaries combined on our first real estate deal in a year and a half.

Anyway, when/if you come out, stay away from the tours, fishermans wharf,etc. Go out into the neighborhoods. Walk. Hike in the Golden Gate NRA area overlooking the bridge. Check out Mill Valley, Marina Green, etc.

Rickstir
January 26, 2006, 01:22 PM
I have been there several times. I have vowed never to return. I did this as a result of my last visit, about six months ago. We were completely harassed by the homeless people. I don't know how the city looks upon this situation and doesn't do anything about it. You cannot walk two blocks without confronting one in the downtown area. You must watch where you step, not for dog droppings but for human feces. Now after Prop H, they can have that city and drowned in the slimey culture they have created.

I have to go to Pismo Beach in July, and that is almost too close to that Hell Hole. But that trip is for a birthday party, MINE!

Creeping Incrementalism
January 26, 2006, 02:24 PM
It finally became time to stop living in denile.

Denile is not just a river in Africa.

Also, Prop H would be effectively a complete and total gun ban... it it weren't so easy to get around by being law in just one city. While only pistols are completely prohobited, trade in long guns is banned, as well as trade in all ammunition. It only got 57% of the vote, too, so it wasn't all that overwhelming. Still, I can't think of any other time when Americans had directly voted to remove their own freedom like this.

This law will certainly be overturned, since it is in obvious violation of state law--that only the legislature can enact gun laws. The Feinstein ban back in the early 80's was overturned. If Prop H isn't, however, then it's time to leave, not just for San Franciscans, but probably all freedom-loving Americans.

cookekdjr
January 26, 2006, 02:24 PM
San Francisco is one of the most beautiful places I've ever seen, and I love their attitude that life is too short to drink bad wine and eat bad food.
That being said, I'll never live there unless a pile of cash falls in my lap. No wait, that wouldn't be enough. Better make that until a pile of cash fills up my house and we have to swim through it to find the kids before we start counting. If its hundreds, we can move to SF.
20's or 50's, we'll just have to visit...

cookekdjr
January 26, 2006, 02:26 PM
Denile is not just a river in Africa.

.... It only got 57% of the vote, too, so it wasn't all that overwhelming...

Just had to put those two sentences together. :)

Byron Quick
January 26, 2006, 02:48 PM
I've never been there and will never go. California is on a list of several states I've made: don't subject yourself to what passes for law there.


Y'all that like it are welcome to it.

tyme
January 26, 2006, 02:51 PM
Been there, done that, didn't get the t-shirt.

gunsmith
January 26, 2006, 03:25 PM
I allways packed despite CA law (concealed is concealed)
It was more then the preparation H, it was the stink, the aggressive "homeless" (they're not homeless it's an act), all the other lame gun laws, the festering morons, City hall (no English speakers need apply),
city workers, (no English speakers need apply) 1/2 of the cops (no English speakers need apply). traffic. gangbangers, the wannabe gangbangers, the gay nazis, the left nazis, the femnazis....oh & you need a six figure income for the privilege of really high taxes.

One Green party friend of mine has contributed to the NRA for the first time in 30 years.

Black Majik
January 26, 2006, 03:27 PM
What is proposition H?

I have no idea, but it kinda sounds like politician for, "Bend over, I have something for you."

Tex


That's Preparation H :D

gunsmith
January 26, 2006, 03:43 PM
A guy who was homeless in Atlanta got on a greyhound and moved into a shelter for homeless people in SF they got him a job where I worked, paid for his clothes, & are paying his rent for the next 5 years...oh and he keeps his paycheck. the taxes from my paycheck wen't to support him!:cuss: :banghead: ...
another reason I'm glad to be gone!

Master Blaster
January 26, 2006, 03:44 PM
what is proposition H?

Well its like a preperation H, except for gun owners, and and its designed to cause painful itching and burning rather than relieve it.:evil:

dakotasin
January 26, 2006, 03:51 PM
This is a question I would like to ask all of you.

If this happened to you in an area you grew up in and had roots in what would you do?

Would you leave? Would resist? Would you fight(politically of course)?



i left - but i was from los angeles. if i was from san francisco, i would've left sooner.

dakotasin
January 26, 2006, 03:53 PM
Hey, one doesn't live or leave a place just for one reason, whether it's tough gun laws or whatever. (OK, you can do it for a bunch of reasons! ;) )



i left because of politics - specifically, the gun laws. so, yeah, i left for one reason, unless you want to call the gun laws 'reasons'...

slopemeno
January 26, 2006, 04:03 PM
Yeah, it has all the problems big cities have. If you cant handle crowds, probably not a good choice for you. If youre intolerant of lifestyles or cultures that arent the same as yours, probably not a good fit.

Oh, heres my big homeless encounter for you. Back when I lived in the Tenderloin (call it the TL) some homeless drunks were drinking beer on the entrance to my then girlfriends apartment building. I said "Hey guys, mind picking up when youre done?" "Oh, uh, yes sir, sure, no problem" Thats it. Oh and one time an obviously psychotic guy screamed at me in McDonalds. Not exactly earth shattering stuff. Dont make eye contact, just move on. Nothing to see here...Seems like a lot of people are too tightly wound for city living.
And yeah, a six figure income helps, but I was able to buy a home on a *just* six figure combined income, and flip it a year and a half later, and traded up nicely. Keep in mind that ANY couple will have a six figure income unless they made a career mistake somewhere. I work in a warehouse...

Diversity: I work with one guy who was on Daniel Ortegas security detail during the Sandanista revolution( and fled Nicaragua and got asylum here in the states, great story), another who was drafted to go to Vietnam from Guam and got 26 years in the Army, another who lived through the war in El Salvador (and got shot in the process). I'm the only white guy in my work unit. Other than the color of their skin, they are just like you and me. They want what you want, not what you got.

And shooting-when I got to this job as soon as anyone found out I was into shooting inevitably led to :"Oh, I have a Bushmaster" "I have a KingCobra"
Theres alot more plain ol' average you-and-me people here than you think, but you wont find them at Fishermans Wharf or in front of the Holiday Inn. Did anyone bother to drive over to Traders in San Leandro while you were here, or go to Jackson Arms in South City? Theres also Reeds in the South Bay, and Target Masters in Milpitas. You could spend a day driving around the bay going from gun store to gun store.

taliv
January 26, 2006, 04:08 PM
after the <insert apocalypse preference here> i'd like to move to los gatos. it's a fantastic area.

gunsmith
January 26, 2006, 07:28 PM
As I read your post a song came into my mind.....ooh loord kumbayah.

Just what the heck do you mean by intolerant? what you call tolerance I probably call enabling.

I wouldn't live in the TL if you paid me to...I worked there though, walked past the needles, the folks using needles, the constant come ons by the ugliest whores I've ever seen. human excrement and urine all over the place crappy parking, parking tickets.
It's not intolerance to want to be left alone when walking down the street with alot on your mind. oh and your psychotic babbling loonies sometimes freak out and kill people and attack them.
I'm not intolerant , I want them to recieve the help they need, I've even called and tried to get help for some of them as they are clearly a danger to themselves and others. It's nearly impossible.
I worked for the Muni security detail and was the lone white guy too-so what? big deal! I liked some of those guys and hated others...more about politics then skin color.
liberals are only tolerant of those that think and talk like they do, I encountered boat loads of intolerance by wearing an American flag lapel, a NRA hat and a GW bumper sticker on my truck.
I was attacked on Muni for wearing a NRA hat! very tolerant!
My truck got keyed where they took the GW sticker, very tolerant!
I asked a guy not to urinate on my motorcycle he called me a (blank) cracker very tolerant!...I live in Reno now, if you call the police they respond, I can legaly carry my guns, I can buy an AR15 (and I did) I can park in front of my house and not get a ticket, I got a nice 1 bedroom for 600 bucks a month including cable and utillities. And I don't get hassled for being a straight white guy who believes in God and votes Conservative, "tolerant" SF attacks people like me because (even though I mind my own biz) they consider me "intolerant" all that means is I have committed thought crimes like believing in the Bill Of Rights!
Oh and my spiritual meetings have gays, straights, blacks ,whites etc, etc and no ones gives a crap about my flag lapel or my NRA hat, the lesbians at the health food store just take my money and say thanks, I don't get the lectures I got at rainbow market.
I can wear a red jacket and eat at a mexican taqueria without having be attacked for the wrong color in the wrong neighborhood ..& if I have to shoot some stupid liberal who's attacking me for being me I can carry a gun to do that.

Creeping Incrementalism
January 27, 2006, 04:50 PM
slopemo... Prop H covers the city/county of S.F. proper, and there is only one gunshop in a city of nearly a million. Also, not in a million years would I say there are a lot of gunshops or shooters in the Bay Area--it's just with that many people, you're going to come across other shooters just by accident. In Milpitas, the city council ran every gunshop out of town. One guy who has a real estate office in that town has a FFL but no one in nearby offices realizes this, and during a group Cal-legal AR lower buy, we had to be given a covery story to use in case anyone asked what we were all standing in line for! In Martinez, the city council wouldn't even let an established gunstore build an indoor range.

Regarding diversity--I've never seen an area more intolerant than the Bay Area. At one affirmitive action protest at Berkeley, the students counter-protesting had to be completely surrounded in a human chain by police, and they still got hit and had objects thrown at them by the black kids they bussed in from S.F.--but only after the same kids looted stores on Telegraph. I've lived in Florida too, and the only time I've heard racial slurs yelled in public is in California, against white people. My school in Florida had a huge number of foreign exchange students, by the only time I'd heard anybody say, "I hate such and such a country" was in Berkeley where a Mexican told a Russian sitting right next to me that she hated America and Anglos. In other places, from what I've seen, if people see something they disaprove of, they just walk off and maybe mutter to themselves. In the S.F. Bay Area, they scream at you and attack you.

And I don't know how you can say homeless people aren't a problem in the city. I and my friends only visit, and everyone has far more and worse experiences than you do.

Creeping Incrementalism
January 27, 2006, 04:52 PM
Denile is not just a river in Africa.
.... It only got 57% of the vote, too, so it wasn't all that overwhelming...

Just had to put those two sentences together. :)

I mean better than something like 2:1, which is what I was fearing. But yeah, definitely not encouraging.

Dirty Bob
January 27, 2006, 06:16 PM
I used to live on Oak, on the panhandle of Golden Gate Park. Janis Joplin performed for the hippies in front of our building on a flatbed truck.

I left CA in 1990 and will never return. I've been attacked on the streets by "homeless" people, and was even robbed by a pair of them in Berkeley. I several times had people (actually, groups of people) try to attack me and abort the attack only when they found out that I was armed (sticks on one occasion, chain for locking my bike on another, a cane on another day, and U-lock for the bike on yet another) and was prepared to defend myself.

I've had people scream at me because I had the audacity to refuse to agree with their cause. Very tolerant, indeed.

High taxes
Insane loony leftist politicos - my local rep was Boxer, and DiFi was mayor of SF
Gridlock on the streets and freeways
Unconstitutional gun laws

No thanks.

Regards,
Dirty Bob

Jubei
January 27, 2006, 07:08 PM
My old-man was a Navy lifer and was stationed at Alameda/Oakland when I was a kid. We used to take the BART into SF all the time. Even back then, (20+ years), the place was full of wierdos.

I don't even live there, and I want to move away.

Jubei

mordechaianiliewicz
January 27, 2006, 07:19 PM
Any issues concerning guns aside on this one, a crappy studio in a bad part of town is about $1200. Making 100,000 a year is like making 30,000 in Alabame or Mississippi. Who would want to live in a place like that anyway?

tyme
January 27, 2006, 09:27 PM
after the <insert apocalypse preference here> i'd like to move to los gatos. it's a fantastic area.
California is beautiful, physically... deserts, beaches, forests, hot weather, cool weather, amazing coastline. It really has something for almost everyone. It's such a shame that people have to compromise their freedoms to live there.

slopemeno
January 27, 2006, 09:55 PM
I think, when navigating the streets of any large city, the idea is to not be "Squirrel-Bait"

Know what I mean?

"Hey man got a dollar?"

"Nope"

It really doesnt get much simpler than that. The look left, you walk right. Are you guys actually being outsmarted and dragged into a derelicts reality?
Think about that for a second. This guy cant handle hygene or a job and he tells you what to do? C'mon.

QuarterBoreGunner
January 27, 2006, 09:55 PM
Move? Why?

This is my town. Got a nice house in a quiet neighborhood and I *like* all the generalized weirdness that the city has. No place is perfect but I wouldnít want to live anyplace else.

Besides Prop H is irrelevant as far as Iím concerned. Handguns? Nope no handguns here. No sireeeeee, none at all.
Let them try and prove otherwise.

QuickDraw
January 27, 2006, 10:18 PM
See my sig line.:)

QuickDraw

Dirty Bob
January 27, 2006, 10:57 PM
slopemeno said:
I think, when navigating the streets of any large city, the idea is to not be "Squirrel-Bait"

Know what I mean?

"Hey man got a dollar?"

"Nope"

True, but the ones that came after me weren't panhandlers. I'd call them drifters, or street people, or goblins or something else. One day in Berkeley, I was riding my bike down Telegraph, when one decided to push me out into traffic. As he made his approach, hands up for the shove, I raised my Kryptonite lock, and he suddenly changed his mind and let me pass.

Another one followed two of us, after being told "no," in an attempt to extort $$ in exchange for leaving us alone. He became more threatening with every moment. We walked into a movie theater, and he finally dropped away.

Two followed me (and a date) to the front doors of a restaurant. The restaurant's front door was locked (I never found out why), and I wound up giving some cash up to get out of there. Strong-arm robbery.

A certain percentage of "homeless" are violent. In a place like SF or Berkeley, with so many of them, there will always be trouble. I remember stabbings and other incidents in Peoples' Park in Berkeley.

Heck, we had three riots in the year I spent at Berkeley for grad school. I graduated and got out.

I love California for its natural beauty, its history, and the people I grew up with. I just won't sacrifice my safety and security (financial and otherwise) to live there. What got me moving out, in addition to the AW ban, was the completely saturated job market in my profession (librarian), so I moved.

The average house price in this part of TX is under $150K, we have concealed carry, good food, a strong local economy, and a lot of great people. I could do a lot worse.

Those who stick it out have my respect, but I just couldn't do it.

Warm regards,
Dirty Bob

hrb02
January 28, 2006, 02:07 AM
I live east of Sacto but work in SF. I would NEVER EVER live in the Bay Area. In fact, if my business wasn't based here, I would pack up and leave tomorrow.

There are God-fearing, "gun-toting" good people in the state, just not many of them near EssEff.

Creeping Incrementalism
January 28, 2006, 08:01 AM
I think, when navigating the streets of any large city, the idea is to not be "Squirrel-Bait"

Know what I mean?

"Hey man got a dollar?"

"Nope"

It really doesnt get much simpler than that. The look left, you walk right. Are you guys actually being outsmarted and dragged into a derelicts reality?
Think about that for a second. This guy cant handle hygene or a job and he tells you what to do? C'mon.

Are you a troll who is actually a towney in Connecticut or something? Because you sure don't seem to be living in the same place I am.

I barely glance at the homeless & lunatics and catch more crap than you. The most I ever say, and then only when pressed by the more presentable, is "Sorry, hafta catch a train." (which is usually true since I'm on my way to Bart). However, one of my friends looked at one of them for half a second (I'm not exagerrating) once, and the homeless nut started screaming at us, "Watchoo staring at me 'cause I'm a black man?!?!:"

Then there was my co-worker who had a homeless nut jump in front of her car, on purpose. At least the guy said "I meant to do that, no problem." and walked off, but that didn't pay for the new windshield she needed.

One day in Berkeley, I was riding my bike down Telegraph, when one decided to push me out into traffic. As he made his approach, hands up for the shove, I raised my Kryptonite lock, and he suddenly changed his mind and let me pass.

A friend of a student I knew at Berkeley got a speeding ticked from a cop while riding a skateboard down Bancroft. That may be why there aren't enough cops to get these maniacs off the streets.

TamThompson
January 28, 2006, 11:51 AM
This is a question I would like to ask all of you.

If this happened to you in an area you grew up in and had roots in what would you do?

Would you leave? Would resist? Would you fight(politically of course)?

This is another type SHTF situation that you all should consider.

Actually, it's happening in Austin, Texas, where we lived until 4 weeks ago. Tons of people moving into Austin from Cally due to lower real estate prices, tech job relocations, and Cally's insane gun laws.

And it's not just Cally moving into Austin...our old neighborhood, Hunter's Chase (far northwest Austin, in Williamson County) is a fairly new neighborhood and it is being taken over by foreigners and I'm not talking about Spanish-speaking folk.

We saw the handwriting on the wall, and that neighborhood wasn't worth fighting for (we'd been there since 1998, and in Austin since 1986), so we bought a 16-acre place waaay out in the hill country in Blanco County. Now we're surrounded by people just like us and that suits me extremely fine.

If it started happening out here, in the hill country, YES, I would fight it because rural Texas is worth defending. Sadly, we've already lost Houston, Dallas, San Antonio, and Austin.

Libertyteeth
January 28, 2006, 02:46 PM
losangeles said

I've found Cali to have a lot of creative people in some industries I've been involved with (hi tech, Internet). A few buddies who are into guns, too, are staying in Cali for a number of reasons, but one is that this is still a hot spot for hi tech entrepreneurs looking for venture capital. It wouldn't work going to Idaho b/c of better gun laws when trying to make something happen in hi tech. I've known many people become millionnaires here back in the Internet boom days and it's still happening to some extent.

I encourage freedom seeking people to move to Montana. I realize Montana is not for everyone, but I would point out that there is quite a bit of high tech industry in Montana, especially the Bozeman area. Boise in Idaho, too. With modern transport and communication, people are choosing to live where the environment is congenial, outdoor activities are abundant, housing and land is inexpensive compared to places like California, and relative freedom flourishes.

The Bozeman Chronicle publishes lists of patents granted to locals, and it seems there are quite a few who are part of development teams which are scattered all over the country. Apparently quite a few are utilizing the Internet and working from their homes.

slopemeno
January 28, 2006, 09:06 PM
Not a troll at all, New England is not my cup of tea. Dont think I live in The City? My favorite restaurant is Ton Kiang out on Geary, but I buy the occasional Danish at Bobs Quality Donuts on Polk...I was just out at Pt. Bonita in Marin today, but the rain got a little heavy so I came home.

Look guys, just like on the playground when you were in fourth grade, just like negotiating your last promotion, just like any other point in life, its how you carry yourself. Let me repeat that. Its how you carry yourself. If your demeanor says: Fourty, fat, and stressed close to the edge,(imagine the "swingline stapler" guy from Office Space)..guess what? What if your demeanor says, I saw you first and took a better angle? Why is my hand in my pocket?

And, lets get real here: Reno has NO homeless? Not from what I saw last October when I drove thru (But I did get to see Ratt for free so I guess thats a push..). Phoenix arizona doesnt have bad neighborhoods? Oh really, 'cause I drove through my old neighborhood and it was like something out of boys in the hood...but at least its not in California....right?

As far as riding a bicycle in The City, no thanks. THATS dangerous. But I have a pretty nice single speed Mtn Bike and theres some awesome trails around here. Hot tip: San Pedro Mtn in San Rafael/ Harry Barbier park.

gunsmith
January 29, 2006, 04:13 AM
Oh sure there are dregs here in Reno, on Virginia st there are your run of the mill spare changers.
But I don't HAVE TO INTERACT WITH THEM I lived in North Beach and the same smelly jerk would insert himself into any converseration I would be having....after a hundred or so times it's really annoying.
I lived in a pay by the week hotel for years during the dotcom boom, the same so called homess guy bugging people all day really had a place to live--down the hall from me!
But back to the dregs, here in Reno I ignore them & guess what ??? they don't follow me yelling and screaming.

AND!! my demeanor is my own buisness, I am from NYC and had to "walk like your going some where so you don't get mugged" for to damm long.

what about my freedom to be left alone? when you ignore those jerks in frisco they act entitled to holler at you & chase you.

what damm law says I have to say "no" or "sorry I don't" to them?

I in fact used my free speech I told them no, I told them I work for my money & so could they, I told them to get a job.

Sometimes they didn't like my excercising my free speech and attacked me so I introduced them to my little friend pepper spray.

Oh and Reno has better mountain bike areas then SF and you can carry a pistol too! (legaly, I allways carried illegaly in SF)


Also I had throat surgery 2 years ago in frisco so talking WAS EXTREMELY PAINFUL , I couldn't engage in stupid inanities with smelly jerks with out hurting my recent operation and causing my vocal chords TO BLEED.

Yet all those self righteous smelly morons only see a guy ignoring them...

I have helped some homeless and given them change, I've bought packs of ciggs for some, When I was a security guard downtown I paid some a dollar or two to go get me coffee etc.

But I need my freedom to walk & talk exactly as I feel like walking and talking
And yes I REALLy DO get that in Reno and not in sanfransicko.

OH YEAH I was parking in downtown Reno and was 10 minutes late getting back to my car & NO TICKET, I don't have to get a permit to park in front of my apt, I don't have parking tickets to worry about.
As a former bike messenger I can tell you that Reno is better then frisco (with a few exceptions) then SF is for pedal pushers, and if you get into a bike accident the cops don't automatically side with the car like they do in frisco.

plus the gun laws...or really ..the lack of them. I got me an AR at the gun show and walked out with it and a case of ammo ,plus some 30 roud clips...oops...mags...ooh lets see you do that!!!
I carry ccw without violating any laws.
there is a thriving music scene here and for 2 or 3 bucks you can see good punk rock bands in frisco they can't afford to practice, if your really ugly and cant meet a beautifull girl the mustang saloon will rent one to you (legaly, not that I would because it cost as much as a case of ammo)

but you're not a male chauvinist pig for asking women out here & also they say yes too...
I've even met teens who say yes sir and no sir and excuse me
(GASP POLITE TEENAGERS! I'VE GOT A FEELING I'M NOT ON HAIGHT ST ANYMORE)

you don't get a lecture about tolerance because you feel that smelly bums with diseases need to put down the drugs and get a grip on reality.
speaking of which, treatment is available for people here.

Reno has lots and lots of young parents with children, people don't get run over when crossing the street the school zone speed limits are enforced.

in fact....(music please) law was made a distant moon ago here:
July and August cannot be too hot.
And there's a legal limit to the snow here
In Reno
The winter is forbidden till December
And exits March the second on the dot.
By order, summer lingers through September
In Reno.
Reno, Nevada! I know it sounds a bit bizarre,
But in Reno, Nevada!
That's how conditions are.
The rain may never fall till after sundown.
By eight, the morning fog must disappear.
In short, there's simply not
A more congenial spot
For happily-ever-aftering than here
In Reno, Nevada

Reno, Nevada! I know it gives a person pause,
But in Reno, Nevada! Those are the legal laws.
The snow may never slush upon the hillside.
By nine p.m. the moonlight must appear.
In short, there's simply not
A more congenial spot
For happily-ever-aftering than here
In Reno, Nevada

No_Brakes23
January 29, 2006, 04:26 AM
Gottta agree with slopemeno about the big ole bad homeless. Yeah SF has em, I made the mistake of staying on Mission last summer when I took the family up there. And yeah the street I was on was full of degenerates. I caught some filth eyeing up my 12yo niece with a look that spoke volumes. But every single one of those bums took a step back when I looked 'em in the eye. Once I got a couple blocks off Mission, the only bums I saw were playing guitars for change and hassling no one.

And I have never been to any major metro city that didn't have the same. Been to Reno a few times, and what passes for a downtown there has plenty of degenerates. Now I wouldn't voluntarily move to SF because of the laws and the scale of economy, but other than that, it ain't a bad place at all.

You know I could have sworn this thread was about SF'rs and their views on moving because of the law. So why are all these folks from other states chiming in to bash Cali, without even the slightest attempt to stay on topic? Who gives a rat's ass if you would never move here? Out-of-State transplants are what ruined this one-time eden in the first place. I can't believe even mods are jumping in on the Cali-bash thread jack. Lame.

Now as it stands I will likely end up moving out of California due to scale of economy, but I sure as hell ain't leaving just cause I am afraid of some street bums and outspoken gays. As for the topic, if I lived in SF, I would ignore the ban until I moved somewhere else.

Nematocyst
January 29, 2006, 04:27 AM
In short, there's simply not
A more congenial spot
For happily-ever-aftering than here
In Reno, Nevada Not to mention the fact that a mere 2 hour drive NE from Reno will get you to Gerlach, the site of one of the most interesting experiences in 21st century America: Burning Man (http://www.burningman.com/).

Trust me on this: regardless of your political or philosophical persuation, you should go to Burning Man, and stay for three or four days.

It WILL change you.

Nem

odysseus
January 29, 2006, 05:07 AM
Trust me on this: regardless of your political or philosophical persuation, you should go to Burning Man, and stay for three or four days.

It WILL change you.

Nem
Ummm... that's supposed to sound inviting? Sounds like a cult offering.

Nematocyst
January 29, 2006, 05:13 AM
Ummm... that's supposed to sound inviting? Sounds like a cult offering. It's neither invitation nor cult offering. (I'm neither in a cult, nor offering.)
Just a fact, echoed by many who've been there.

It will change you.

Take it or leave it. That's not my decision, but yours.

Nem

PS: I'll modify my original post a bit. Replace the word "should" with "go here if you want to experience the wilder side of hunanity in the 21st century; stay away if you don't".

"Should" was a poor choice of words implying 'invitation' or 'coersion'.

I offer no invitation (I only went once) nor coersion (could care less if you go or not). Merely a suggestion for those seeking one of the more extreme experiences in human history, ranking up there with the type of experience that surely must have accompanied a siege of some castle in ancient Briton.

I put no value judgement on the experience, only the assertion that it will change you, and the way you view 20th century humanity at the transition into the 21st century.

After going there, while trying to explain the experience to a friend who had never been, my description ran something like this: Imagine a party for 20,000, in severe desert conditions (70 mph dust storms every third day), mimicing a post-apocalyptic, cultural meltdown) with loud music, over the top art, and interesting to bizarre human experiences.

Again, it will change you. Not necessarily in a 'good' way - some love it, some hate it - but it will change you.

Nem

gunsmith
January 29, 2006, 07:28 AM
It was great, it was an election year ! the libs love this festival and it was great blowing their mind with my approach to the election.
(the gun vote!)

they would say GW is a nazi! and I would counter "so you think the best way to fight nazi's is to make sure they have guns and you don't"?:D

I don't drink or do any drugs except coffee so it was easy and fun arguing politics with drunk libs on mushrooms...oh and naked friendly women all over the place...whats not to like? plus "the valley" where BM is full of real gun nuts, I should know! last year a friend of a friend was shooting his class threes behind the BM ranch ...each year a new batch of libs comes out to work b4 the event and discovers that self reliant (a major theme of BM)
people in the desert allways have a gun.
I've been to many people ranches out there, allways at least three or four guns laying about....big mountain lions out there as well as no cops (for the most part) your on your own

3rdpig
January 29, 2006, 03:48 PM
I grew up in California, not the bay area, but further south in Anaheim (we used to live 1/4 mile from Disneyland, which for a little kid was really great) and Garden Grove. My parents saw the handwriting on the wall even way back then (this was 1973, I was 15) and packed up and moved to the Seattle area. My Dad was an aerospace engineer, so places we could move to were limited to areas where there were aircraft companies. We visited SF many times in the 12 years we lived in Cali and I used to go back every couple of years to visit with some school friends, but the last of those friends moved out and I haven't been back in 10 years. The last time I was there I was shocked, my old, upper middle class neighborhood of Garden Grove looked like little Saigon and the house near Disneyland was totally gone and the area looked like a slum. I swore then that I'd never go back and I never have. Some of you can call this "diversity" if you want, I'll just call it like it is, which is turning nice neighborhoods into slums by refusing to take out the garbage. Or even worse, importing and supporting garbage because you like it.


In Washington (I forget the exact year) two female moonbats got elected, Patty Murray and Maria Cantwell in what was called the "Year of the Woman". I started making plans right then to get out of Washington. It took me several years to get it done but a move to Arizona worked out well for me and my whole family ended up moving here with me. Of course now that the liberals have made Cali such a mess, they're moving to Arizona with their crazy ideas and voting accordingly. To whoever said that we can't handle our problems here in Arizona which is why you see so many out of state plates in Cali, do me a favor, vote to close down the borders and not let anybody pass between CA and AZ. PLEASE do it BEFORE more of your compatriots move here and vote in the kind of wonderful people that California residents are famous for voting into office, like Diane Feinstein and Barbara Boxer!

There seems to be one constant in life, no matter how far you move to get away from the liberal moonbats, they seem to follow you.

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