Range Ammo ?


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Langenator
January 1, 2006, 01:24 AM
Went to a newish indoor pistol range, Champion Arms in Kent, WA, a couple of weeks ago with the FIL and BIL.

Nothing special, staff was pretty cool, small selection of guns-including two 9mm ARs-to rent (new range, haven't accumlated many yet, I guess). But htey had one restriction that puzzles me:

No Wolf or Blazer ammo allowed. Even if you're shooting it through your own guns.

I'm pretty sure neither of these is a danger to the backstop. The only thing I can come up with is that they sell the brass that's left behind and don't feel like sorting out casings made from other kinds of metal.

Anyone have any other ideas on why they'd have a restriction like this?

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Gillster
January 1, 2006, 02:48 AM
Maybe they collect and sell the empty brass and don't want to seperate out the steel and aluminum cases?? Just a thought.

Chris

Azrael256
January 1, 2006, 03:21 AM
Yup, it's for the brass. The steel can be separated with a magnet, and the aluminum can be sorted out with an air table. In fact, I've seen machines to sort buckets of brass that will do it all automatically. Maybe they just don't have the cash to sink into such a machine. I've noticed more ranges are willing to invest in a sorter since Blazer and the various steel-cased Russian offerings have gotten so cheap and popular. It's good for business to let the customer shoot what they like.

nomadboi
January 1, 2006, 05:36 AM
Have they built a shelf along the back yet? Went there a couple weeks ago and there wasn't anywhere to put your gear...

GoBrush
January 1, 2006, 12:39 PM
Take a good magnet and stick it on the bullet they have metal jackets on the bullets and beat the crap out of back stops. I dont know why anyone would want to shoot that crap through their gun anyway.:banghead:

yonderway
January 1, 2006, 01:06 PM
No Wolf or Blazer ammo allowed. Even if you're shooting it through your own guns.

They want to profit from your reloadable brass. I get this all the time with my Makarov.

Of course, if I were shooting reloadable brass, I would be taking it home with me anyway. So they don't get my brass either way.

I tend to just not patronize ranges with such a restriction, or stores that have such ranges. But I make sure to write to the store manager and tell them why.

George S.
January 1, 2006, 02:14 PM
If the range keeps the brass, that's extra money for them so not having to deal with other metals makes some sense. Did the range allow you to police your own brass??

But doesn't Wolf now have some calibers in brass cases??

yonderway
January 1, 2006, 03:04 PM
Did the range allow you to police your own brass??

I don't recall ever signing over ownership of my brass to the range as a condition of using the range.

waterhouse
January 1, 2006, 03:45 PM
Take a good magnet and stick it on the bullet they have metal jackets on the bullets and beat the crap out of back stops. I dont know why anyone would want to shoot that crap through their gun anyway.:banghead:

Are you sure about the magnet thing? Have you tried this with wolf or blazer?

As to why, wolf is cheap, and it works, and it hasn't had any ill effects on any of my guns through several thousand rounds. I reload now, but I still use wolf in situations where it is inconvenient for me to find all of my brass.

nfl1990
January 1, 2006, 03:59 PM
Do they allow Wolf that has brass cases?

whm1974
January 1, 2006, 04:54 PM
I could see not allowing Combloc Milsup since most of that stuff is steel jacketed and/or steel cored.

I have heard of people getting AP rounds in boxes of ball milsup ammo.

-Bill

armoredman
January 1, 2006, 05:28 PM
An indoor range here some time ago had a restriction that if you bought thier ammo, you had to leave the brass. That didn't last long.
We restricted caliber only, to save the backstop. Anyone who wanted brass was welcome to dip into the barrels - bring your own bucket - and they could sort out the steel and aluminum at thier house!

GoBrush
January 1, 2006, 05:38 PM
[QUOTE=waterhouse]Are you sure about the magnet thing? Have you tried this with wolf or blazer?

My father inlaw had bought a case of wolf ammo and when we went to the indoor range they used their magnet on it and would not let him shoot it. They had just done some work on their range and would not allow ammo that their magnet stuck to.

Kodiaz
January 1, 2006, 06:02 PM
Man in Palm beach county a bunch of the ranges got together and won't let you shoot anything but the ammo they sell you (at a ridiculous price) The only exception to this horrendous rule is the Tactical Zone in Riviera Beach. You can bring your own ammo and targets there.

grimjaw
January 1, 2006, 06:15 PM
They want to profit from your reloadable brass.

+1. This is a perfectly legitimate business practice. If you owned a range and had to clean up thousands of spent cartridges, wouldn't you want to be able to sell it? I don't shoot at ranges that won't let me bring my own ammunition or collect my brass, however. There's plenty of folks who don't reload that they can make a buck off of.

jmm

Langenator
January 2, 2006, 12:13 AM
Gobrush-I don't think the magnet sticking to Wolf has anything to do with steel in the bullets. The shell casing is steel, and that's probably what the magnet was pulling on.

I can't say if they had a shelf or not, since I didn't shoot. I just had my carry gun (Sig 229, .40) with one (loaded) mag, which I didn't feel like unloading, and none of their rentals appealed to me. So I BSed with a clerk about upgrades to my Delta while the FIL and BIL rented a Glock 17.

No_Brakes23
January 2, 2006, 03:12 AM
Take a good magnet and stick it on the bullet they have metal jackets on the bullets and beat the crap out of back stops. I dont know why anyone would want to shoot that crap through their gun anyway.:banghead: I have to take exception to this. While I have had bad luck with Wolf in pistol calibers, and the old black box red seal stuff had a bad rep, the Yellow Box Grey case stuff in 7.62x39mm shoots just fine within 300 meters.

Oddly enough, the only other pistol ammo besides Wolf I have had trouble with was Blazer.

I could see not allowing Combloc Milsup since most of that stuff is steel jacketed and/or steel cored. Ah, there's the rub. Many indoor ranges won't allow the new grey case Wolf that is safe, but they let the nasty ComBloc stuff right in if it has brass cases.:rolleyes: I can't cry about it, though, it's their range

No_Brakes23
January 2, 2006, 03:16 AM
.

JeepDriver
January 2, 2006, 06:45 PM
Try getting someone to come out and pick up the lead that you have to clean up from an indoor range w/o having plenty of Brass to give them.

Lead makes them no money, infact sometimmes we have to pay to get rid of the stuff, but add in a few 55 gallon drums of brass and they will come get it as soon as you call.

It's about keeping over head cost down.

We don't restrict the ammo useage, but we have to seperate out the steel and aluminum before we fill the drums. It takes about 3 months to fill up a drum of aluminum, which is taken by the recycler. The steel cases are useless, that just gets tossed.

It's amazing how people complain about indoor ranges with out thinking about how much it cost to operate one. Between the backstop and the air handeling system you can tie up close to a million dollars for a 15 lane range, and that's before any profit has been made. Not to mention the building, employee's, insurance, electric, gas, phone, damage repair cost and FFL/SOT fee's.

trickyasafox
January 3, 2006, 01:47 AM
i think anyone who wont go to a range because they say no wolf is taking it a bit too far. so what if they sell brass? most people at my ranges dont reload anyway. i police my own and have never had a problem with it. if it keeps my range dues down, let em. it doesnt hurt anything. the only thing restricted at mine is caliber, to save the backstop. i also think thats really reasonable too.

foghornl
January 3, 2006, 01:05 PM
My closest indoor range put a new policy in effect about 2 months back...unless you are a "Member" of the range (at $300/YEAR, up from $100/2 years), you can only shoot centerfire ammo you buy on the spot from them...

$30 for a 100-round USA brand (Winchester White Box) Value-pack in .45ACP is way too steep...plus you still get stuck for the $15/hour range time...no pro-rate in the lane time, either...You walk to the line, you pay for an hour. Plus, what I had in my range kit was 2 boxes of WWB value-pack .45ACP

And yet, when I walked away, rather than pay $45 plus for an hour of shooting, guy behind the counter said "I don't know why we're losing so much business...????"

This was Saturday afternoon about 2:30PM...used to be you had to wait a while if you got there at that time.

NO ONE was in any of the 12 lanes...No one in there but me and guy behind the counter...discounting the couple who walked out as I walked in, muttering something about new ownership being "100% thieves..."

If they are trying to build the business model of how to lose customers, they are very close to being perfect.

Andrew S
January 3, 2006, 01:44 PM
3 close ranges that I have checked out so far.

First and closest one requires you to buy their ammo and is a pistols only range. I never go.

Second range is a pistol and shotgun range that requires total metal jackets that you can either buy from them or bring in. They do require you to buy their Federal shotgun shells at about 2x retail. I go there for the shotgun range.

The third is a pistol and rifle range and they dont care what you use. Just no exotics like tracer or exploding rounds. They are also the nicer group of people with the larger, busier, and cleaner range. They are my clear choice.

There is one range I have yet to check and one that is a it further than I would like to go on city roads and I hear their filtration system is really bad so I plan on avoiding it. Now that the new year has arrived I will be joining one of the out door ranges in my area though.

GEM
January 3, 2006, 03:12 PM
If they sell their ammo at prices close to Wally World or other similar sporting goods stores, I won't object. If they want you to buy a box at $5 over normal retail - bye, bye.

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