[M.E.Eldridge]

Title says it all. I wondering if anyone knew of actual retailers that sold them, as opposed to buying one at auction. I am really interested in their M-14 rifles.

[m39fan]

You may already know this, but Norinco is banned by name from importing firearms into the US. That means no one will have multiples. Your best bet would be to watch Gunbroker or Auction Arms. You might also put a WTB ad on the boards.

Take Care,
Mike

[M.E.Eldridge]

You may already know this, but Norinco is banned by name from importing firearms into the US. That means no one will have multiples. Your best bet would be to watch Gunbroker or Auction Arms. You might also put a WTB ad on the boards.

Take Care,
Mike

I knew they were banned from importing, but I've found U.S. websites that sell their shotguns as a regular, in-stock item, so I thought some might have rifles. I saw the M-14 at a gun show for $350.00 a while back, I guess I should have bought it.

[hillbilly]

Here ya go.........


http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=42122722

[Throttle_monkey1]

I don't know if norinco is only banned from importing, or if the brand itself is banned in the US (as I am in canada). Norinco M-14s are all over the place up here in Kanuckistan, and they are damn good rifles too.

Try this place:

www.canadiangunnutz.com

You will need to sign up, and its free. Once you sign up, go down to the equipment exchange forums, there's always m14s up for sale in there.

Also try www.marstar.ca

www.milarm.com

www.wolverinesupplies.com

I believe they all carry norinco m14s (they are also referred to a Norinco M305)

A springfield M1A or M14 goes for 2500$ up here compared to 399$ CDN for a Norinco.

Cheers from an oppressed gun nut from north of the border.

[beerslurpy]

I thought the norinco import ban stopped a few months ago, or was the firearm ban separate?

[Texfire]

I don't know if norinco is only banned from importing, or if the brand itself is banned in the US (as I am in canada). Norinco M-14s are all over the place up here in Kanuckistan, and they are damn good rifles too.

Try this place:

www.canadiangunnutz.com

You will need to sign up, and its free. Once you sign up, go down to the equipment exchange forums, there's always m14s up for sale in there.

Also try www.marstar.ca

www.milarm.com

www.wolverinesupplies.com

I believe they all carry norinco m14s (they are also referred to a Norinco M305)

A springfield M1A or M14 goes for 2500$ up here compared to 399$ CDN for a Norinco.

Cheers from an oppressed gun nut from north of the border.

My understanding is the Norinco ban was a american law (or presidential order?) issued during the Clinton presidency as a response to barriers on trade set by China. Canada is not effected by it, but has their own set of problems which I'm frankly not too familiar with.

Tex

[Texfire]

I thought the norinco import ban stopped a few months ago, or was the firearm ban separate?

The Norinco import ban is seperate from the Assault Weapons Ban and is still in effect.

Tex

[M.E.Eldridge]

I don't know if norinco is only banned from importing, or if the brand itself is banned in the US (as I am in canada). Norinco M-14s are all over the place up here in Kanuckistan, and they are damn good rifles too.

Try this place:

www.canadiangunnutz.com

You will need to sign up, and its free. Once you sign up, go down to the equipment exchange forums, there's always m14s up for sale in there.

Also try www.marstar.ca

www.milarm.com

www.wolverinesupplies.com

I believe they all carry norinco m14s (they are also referred to a Norinco M305)

A springfield M1A or M14 goes for 2500$ up here compared to 399$ CDN for a Norinco.

Cheers from an oppressed gun nut from north of the border.

Importing is illegal, owning/buying/selling is legal. Out of curiosity, while looking at Canadian gun websites I've noticed stuff about licenses. Due you guys have to have a seperate license for each gun or does one work for all guns?

[Versifier]

There were a bunch of Garands and I believe M14's also that were imported that had older recievers that had been cut in half and later rewelded. I believe they were brought in by Norinco, but my rememberer is a discontinued model and they don't make replacement parts for it anymore, so I could be wrong about the name. The rifles seemed like a great deal at the time, but many were poorly aligned, they were not properly heat treated after the welding job and were in my opinion not safe to fire. Nevertheless, many of them were sold and they still surface occasionally - all should be aware of that when purchasing a used one. The weld lines are easily spotted if you know to look for them.
These are not to be confused with the rifles actually made by Norinco which are well made, though in my opinion not up to the SA standards, and the price differences used to reflect this when they were still being sold here. I don't think it will be easy to find one. I'm quite happy with my DCM Garand, though I do not compete with it, only shoot it for fun. They're still a great deal and are readily available if you can't find your M14.

[Mad Bodhi]

The Norinco/Polytech ban was a slap on the wrist for ,among other things,the attempted smuggling into this country of several thousand full auto ak's with the implicit knowledge of some high level company officials.The ban does not cover shotguns.It was an Executive Order under Clinton.It does not expire and the only way to get rid of it is by Executive Order.Bush put an Executive Order 2 year ban on ALL Norinco/North China Industries Imports for shipping missiles to Iran which expired May 2005. http://www.ustreas.gov/offices/enforcement/ofac/actions/20050527.shtml
Basically there is virtually NO chance of seeing small arm imports from China again.

[colt.45]

i have never seen a stock M-1A go for more than $1500

[Throttle_monkey1]

M.E Eldridge- Our rules up here are very very stupid. There are three type of licences:

1. Non-restricted- Hunting rifles, shotguns stuff like that, must have barrel length of 18.5" or more and overall length of 26" or more. Shot guns have a different rule, they only need to be 26" or greater in overall length. It's perfectly legal to pack a non-restricted shotgun with a 12.5" or 14" barrel.

2. Restricted- Handguns, Most military rifles (because they look evil :rolleyes: ) eg, AR-15 These can only be fired on an approved range.

3. Prohibited. Full autos, converted full autos, and guns deemed super evil, also handguns with a barrel length under 4 inches. eg, FN FAL, AK 47 etc. These are not allowed to be fired any more.

The M-14 is a non-restricted rifle.

Anyways, back to the Norinco thing. So Norinco is not allowed to import into the US. How does it work though if you were to buy a gun off of a Canadian gun owner? Is it still illegal just because it is a Norinco? What would happen if I were to move down to the states, would I be able to bring my guns? my norinco's?

I owned a Norinco SKS-D, it was a POS. I have a Norinco 1911 and it's an awesome gun, except the trigger pull is stiff. for 400$ I'm not complaining.

The Norinco M305 (M14) is selling like hotcakes up here, it is a very good rifle. It is my next purchase.

If you can find a way to get your hands on one, I would do it. You could also check with www.questar.ca

They specialize with importing stuff from the US, but they might be able to help you with getting a Norinco M14. Hope this helps.

[Throttle_monkey1]

Colt.45, That's the prices we pay up here.

My Armalite M15A4 was about 1600$ Cdn. Thats normal for an AR
Socom 16s are about 2300$

[grimjaw]

Throttle_monkey, thanks for the info.

It's perfectly legal to pack a non-restricted shotgun with a 12.5" or 14" barrel.

Well I guess Canada isn't all bad after all. :rolleyes:

jmm

[joab]

i have never seen a stock M-1A go for more than $1500
2300 CAD would be somewhere around 1900 USD
The only way to get a Norinco from Canada would be to have a parts kit shipped and buy a reciever in the US.
Everything but the reciever can be imported, at least on the 45s

[M.E.Eldridge]

M.E Eldridge- Our rules up here are very very stupid. There are three type of licences:

1. Non-restricted- Hunting rifles, shotguns stuff like that, must have barrel length of 18.5" or more and overall length of 26" or more. Shot guns have a different rule, they only need to be 26" or greater in overall length. It's perfectly legal to pack a non-restricted shotgun with a 12.5" or 14" barrel.

2. Restricted- Handguns, Most military rifles (because they look evil :rolleyes: ) eg, AR-15 These can only be fired on an approved range.

3. Prohibited. Full autos, converted full autos, and guns deemed super evil, also handguns with a barrel length under 4 inches. eg, FN FAL, AK 47 etc. These are not allowed to be fired any more.

The M-14 is a non-restricted rifle.

Anyways, back to the Norinco thing. So Norinco is not allowed to import into the US. How does it work though if you were to buy a gun off of a Canadian gun owner? Is it still illegal just because it is a Norinco? What would happen if I were to move down to the states, would I be able to bring my guns? my norinco's?

I owned a Norinco SKS-D, it was a POS. I have a Norinco 1911 and it's an awesome gun, except the trigger pull is stiff. for 400$ I'm not complaining.

The Norinco M305 (M14) is selling like hotcakes up here, it is a very good rifle. It is my next purchase.

If you can find a way to get your hands on one, I would do it. You could also check with www.questar.ca

They specialize with importing stuff from the US, but they might be able to help you with getting a Norinco M14. Hope this helps.

I'll look into them,thanks.I am still a bit confused on one aspect of Canadian gun laws. I was thinking about booking a safari in Canada for the 06 muzzleloader season. I hear there are some really monster whitetail bucks in Saskatchewan. My question is: if I were to come up to Canada for this trip, would I need to buy a license or register my gun in Canada?

[Lucky]

3. Prohibited...also handguns with a barrel length under 4 inches.

If you read the fine print, except for revolvers the 'barrel length' is measured to the back of the chamber:) But I guess that's theoretical, everything I see suggests that I'm the only one who read that bit. My understanding was that as police forces were switching from revolvers to pistols the rule was enacted to keep the public from buying them.

[Texfire]

The Norinco/Polytech ban was a slap on the wrist for ,among other things,the attempted smuggling into this country of several thousand full auto ak's with the implicit knowledge of some high level company officials.The ban does not cover shotguns.It was an Executive Order under Clinton.It does not expire and the only way to get rid of it is by Executive Order.Bush put an Executive Order 2 year ban on ALL Norinco/North China Industries Imports for shipping missiles to Iran which expired May 2005. http://www.ustreas.gov/offices/enforcement/ofac/actions/20050527.shtml
Basically there is virtually NO chance of seeing small arm imports from China again.

Excellent, I hoped that someone with a better grasp of the facts would chime in. I have noticed chinese import shotguns lately, but they aren't stamped Norinco. The explaination I heard what that they are made in the same factory that the Norinco firearms were, but by a privately owned chinese company. I thought at the time it was a way to get around the import ban.

Tex

[The Real Hawkeye]

I remember the year the Norinco ban went into place. I was drooling over a military Mauser 98 replica they used to make in .22 Long Rifle. Finally decided to buy it when the ban went into place. Called around, but the supplies of those rifles had been scooped up instantaneously. I was POed. What a crazy law, huh? Funny, this is supposed to be our country, yet I don't recall this government action ever being put up for a vote.

[M.E.Eldridge]

I remember the year the Norinco ban went into place. I was drooling over a military Mauser 98 replica they used to make in .22 Long Rifle. Finally decided to buy it when the ban went into place. Called around, but the supplies of those rifles had been scooped up instantaneously. I was POed. What a crazy law, huh? Funny, this is supposed to be our country, yet I don't recall this government action ever being put up for a vote.

Are you talking about this rifle:http://www.marstar.ca/gf-norinco/22-JW-25A.shtm

Those things look neat.Am I understanding this correctly:Norinco rifles and handguns are banned from importation but shotguns aren't? If the shotguns too are illegal how do U.S. companies get stocked supplies?

[Throttle_monkey1]

M.E Eldridge- Yes there are monster white-tails in Saskatchewan and Alberta. I'm pretty sure if you are coming up for a hunt, you will need a temporary permit for your rifle. I know if I were to come to the US with my guns, I would need to apply for a permit from the US side as well.

On www.canadiangunnutz.com, there is a legal seciton that explains our stupid laws and many of the guys there will also be able to explain what kind of permits/documentation you need.

I will also give you the link to the Canadian firearms centre.

http://www.cfc-cafc.gc.ca/info_for-renseignement/non-residents/default_e.asp

I am curious, do your laws consider it importing if you purchase a norinco rifle from a private citizen in Canada?

[The Real Hawkeye]

Are you talking about this rifle:http://www.marstar.ca/gf-norinco/22-JW-25A.shtm

Those things look neat.Am I understanding this correctly:Norinco rifles and handguns are banned from importation but shotguns aren't? If the shotguns too are illegal how do U.S. companies get stocked supplies?Yeah, that's the .22 rifle I wanted to buy when the ban going into effect suddenly changed my plans. Yes, we cannot have evil .22 bolt action rifles imported into this country, otherwise some newbe might actually learn the basics of safe gun handling and marksmanship. Can't have that.

[Uncle Meat]

Norinco makes great M1A's.
I have several Springfields but prefer my Norinco (w/Smith upgrade).
It's the best value out there with rifles selling in the $600-800 range.

[pccraig]

So can Americans purchase Norinco products in Canada and bring them home ?

[Car Knocker]

Nothing that's semi-auto. Some shotguns you can buy in the U.S.

[rbernie]

So can Americans purchase Norinco products in Canada and bring them home ?
Simply stated - No.

[pccraig]

Sorry, I'm a little confused about the "semi-auto" comment.

I'm interested in the bolt action .22 trainers that might be available in Canada.

Any way I can legally acquire one ?

[El Tejon]

Have you tried Gunbroker? Otherwise keep your eyes open at gun shows.

The prices will only go up. No way the feds will allow Chinese firearms back into the country. ATFE went into an institutional seizure when CKCs were going for $70 and cases of Chinee AK ammo for $99 at gun shows.

[mainmech48]

While elements of the ATF were quite probably having some sort of internal conniption over the high volume and low prices of Chinese-made arms and ammo, that, in and of itself, it wasn't enough to provide sufficient political cover for them to justify an arbitrary 'blanket' imports ban.

As Mad Bodhi mentioned, the discovery of deliberate attempts to smuggle prohibited weapons, eg: select-fire AKMs, into the US by Norinco (owned and operated by the PLA, directed under existing regional military and political command structures) with the complicity of certain now-defunct import firms into CONUS was a large factor.

However, the biggie was that Norinco was (and still is, AFAIK) also selling nuclear, guided missile, submarine and aircraft technology in the form of components, plans and manufacturing tooling/expertise to some Very Bad Folks despite being signatory to various treaties and 'agreements' to the contrary. Among others, Iran, Iraq, and North Korea were clients.

In effect, their US sales revenues were subsidizing this to a very large extent. IMO, cutting that off was the most effective means available to us to throw a wrench into the Chicom machinations.

I miss the cheap ammo, nifty classic knock-offs, and surplus military goodies as much as anyone else does. But not enough to be willing to go back to helping China achieve it's military and political agenda on schedule in the process.

[El Tejon]

main, perhaps not, but the PLA's arming of the peasantry was the motivation of Operation Dragon and why they ran a reverse sting. The ATF working group and its task force went looking for a way to choke off the Chinese guns and what do ya know, they found it.

Besides everything I have read said the Norinco gun money was a slush fund for PLA princelings not part of the Master Plan for World Domination.:uhoh:

"Ahhh, Young Yang, tell me how the Master Plan for World Domination goes."
"Shi-fu, we have started by making all adolescents wear Che t-shirts and sandals which we make."
"Yes, as Sun Zi, writes, 'control the mopey kids and you will control the outcome of battle'"
*evil laughter from both*

[Car Knocker]

Various Norinco shotguns are imported into the U.S. and are readily available from distributers such as Davidson's - currently, Davidson's lists over 500 Norinco shotguns in stock.

http://www.galleryofguns.com/gunlocator/gunsearch/inv_search.asp?promoCode=&manufact_combo=Norinco&category_combo=None&g_type=None&calib_combo=None&finish_type=None&sight_class_combo=None&mod_ser_combo=None&price_range=None&num_rec=20&submit1.x=30&submit1.y=10

The "ban" seems to be limited to semi-auto firearms such as the M-14 clone and the 1911 clone and, perhaps, .22LR training rifles - I don't know.

There are mechanisms in place for exporting arms from Canada and importing them into the U.S., however it would seem that the fees involved would exceed the value of the inexpensive training rifle.

[The Real Hawkeye]

What piece of US Congressional legislation made Norinco firearms unimportable into the US, and on what date did the president sign it into law?

[Manedwolf]

FYI, Norinco is a state industry of the PRC Army, and every dollar given to them for copies of American tools of freedom funds the Chinese military. It is not a "company", it is operated by the Party themselves.

http://www.cicns-news.net/Images-News/falun-gong-4.jpg
(falung gong member)

Some people might have a moral issue with that.

[Car Knocker]

No legislation - Executive Order. Two of 'em, #12938 (1994) & #13094 (1998). Bush, in 2003, used these Clinton-era EOs to impose sanctions on Norinco and its subsidiaries for technology transfers to Iran's ballistic missle program.

[Sunray]

"...one work for all guns..." There's two flavours of permit. Non-restricted and restricted. Generally speaking, restricted is handguns and some semi-auto rifles. Non-restricted is hunting firearms.
Marstar will NOT, I say again NOT export M305's to the U.S. It's illegal for you to import them. Mind you, Marstar is having trouble getting them too.
The existing Norinco's Stateside are early production models and are supposedly not as good as the copies up here.
"...Any way I can legally acquire one..." Not without getting all the stupid Canadian permits. Requires a course and a written test. Plus the firearm will be registered in Canada. Then you need to deal with U.S. laws to take it home.

[The Real Hawkeye]

No legislation - Executive Order. Two of 'em, #12938 (1994) & #13094 (1998). Bush, in 2003, used these Clinton-era EOs to impose sanctions on Norinco and its subsidiaries for technology transfers to Iran's ballistic missle program.Oh, so you're saying these were acts of arbitrary power, i.e., tyranny? I get it. After all, executive order power is only the power to execute (i.e., bring into effect) the laws passed by our elected representatives in Congress, not the power to create law by executive fiat. We are a nation of laws, after all, and the highest law in the land is the US Constitution, which says that "All legislative Powers herein granted shall be vested in the Congress of the United States." That being the case, where did the president derive his legislative powers? To legislate means to create [i]laws, i.e., binding declarations enforceable by governments. It's no good protesting that these executive orders do not create laws, because any binding declaration enforceable by government is a law, by definition. Therefore, unless the president is merely bringing into effect, with his executive orders, laws passed by Congress, he is acting as a tyrant, i.e., exercising power arbitrarily (i.e., without legal authorization). That being the case, we are living under tyranny. Where has my logic failed in leading me to this conclusion?

[Car Knocker]

As I recall, Congress has the authority, and uses it, to create the various federal agencies that are part of the Executive Branch and are overseen, ultimately, by the Chief Executive as he exercises the power granted to him under Article II of the Constitution - that's why he gets to select the heads of these agencies pending, of course, confirmation by the Senate. As Chief Executive, the President, legally, has the authority to direct these agencies in the execution of their mandates. Congress, having sole power to fund these agencies, can either support or not support any facet of an agency's mission by either supplying or denying funding for specific functions and thus provide oversight to the Executive Branch. Congress also has the option of passing laws that conflict with and override an EO if it so desires. Additionally, the Judiciary can strike down an EO that it determines exceeds the President's authority in directing federal agencies and enters the realm of making laws. In any event, EOs must function within the framework of existing laws and direct the implementation of those laws.

[The Real Hawkeye]

In any event, EOs must function within the framework of existing laws and direct the implementation of those laws.Funny, I thought I just said that. So you are saying there ARE laws, passed by Congress, signed by the president, prohibiting the sale of certain Norinco products? In that case, the executive order merely brought these laws into effect. When, however, I asked which piece of Congressional legislation prohibited the sale of Norinco products, the answer I received was simply that it was an executive order, not a law, as if an executive order can be a substitute for legislation passed by Congress. It was to this statement that I was responding.

[Prince Yamato]

I was told that the ban was written to cover specific products and that the fact that shotguns were left out was just a fluke that had never been "corrected". Which is why we say many new Norinco shotguns over here, but no rifles or pistols.

[Car Knocker]

The President has a degree of authority to act within certain parameters - a relatively broad framework. If he has the authority to impose sanctions on a country, then the methodology is at his discretion unless restrictions are imposed. He does not have to ask Congressional approval for each and every detail - which brand of product to restrict or allow as opposed to another. Not much different, in this respect, than when he receive Congressional authorization to prosecute the war with Iraq- he is not required to submit each and every relevent military decision for approval.

[The Real Hawkeye]

Knocker, you and I apparently have completely divergent views of the workings of our Constitutional system. The regulation of commerce is a power entirely delegated to Congress, not the executive branch. The Congress is nowhere empowered to delegate this power to another branch of national government.

Article II is very short. The president is empowered to 1) take care that the laws be faithfully executed, 2) be commander in chief when the armed forces of the United States are brought into service in our national defense (i.e., during times of war) by a Declaration from Congress, 3) make appointments to certain offices with advice and consent of the Senate, 4) make recommendations to Congress as to laws that he believes are needed. I've read it over several times. I do not see the power to "impose sanctions on a country." Perhaps I missed it, though. Would you be so kind as to point it out to me?

[JohnKSa]

Sorry, I'm a little confused about the "semi-auto" comment.

I'm interested in the bolt action .22 trainers that might be available in Canada.

Any way I can legally acquire one ?Sorry about that, some of the members here get "Rifle Country" confused with "Legal & Political".

The semi-auto comment was directed to the original question that started this thread.

As far as trying to bring firearms into the country, the simple answer is that you may not do it. You certainly can't just go to Canada and bring one back, nor can you just have one shipped to you from outside the country.

Someone can give you the complicated answer if you're interested.

[Car Knocker]

Certainly. As I recall, the Act of Congress pertaining to these particular sanctions requires a Presidential Determination that China committed certain actions, thereupon requiring the President to impose sanctions (I believe this was a Missile Technology Control Act from around 1992?) and allowed a certain amount of latitude of the President to impose, or waive, the authorized sanctions. The Act allowed the President to also impose sanctions on products of companies that he determines violates the Act - this gives him the latitude to restrict the import of all or some of a company's products. As you can see, the President was given a fair amount of discretion in the implementation of this Act.

This clearly falls within the duties of the Executive as outlined in Article II, Sections 1 and 3.

[The Real Hawkeye]

Given enough executive latitude, the Congress could just retire to their vacation homes, eh? Well, if there was in fact a piece of legislation mandating that the president create economic sanctions, left to his discretion, then the executive orders in question are legit. One could argue, however, that the Second Amendment would prohibit such sanctions directed at sales to US citizens of firearms, as this does, to some degree at least, infringe on the right of the people to keep and bear arms, specifically Chinese manufactured arms. I see no exceptions written into the Second Amendment which state, "unless for economic sanctions authorized by Congress."

[rbernie]

I see no exceptions written into the Second Amendment which state, "unless for economic sanctions authorized by Congress."
Rather than continue to veer this poor thread into the tules, why not open a thread in L&P with this line of questioning?

[The Real Hawkeye]

Rather than continue to veer this poor thread into the tules, why not open a thread in L&P with this line of questioning?I've said my last word on the subject. :)

[mainmech48]

ET: Being a bit put-out by the inference that I need to adjust my tinfoil helmet, I did a little Google search using your 'Operation Dragon' lead to see what I could learn.

Keeping in mind the previous suggestions that this thread has drifted too far from 'Rifle Country' into 'L&P', I'll try to be brief. Actually, IMO the subject could indeed make interesting fodder for an L&P thread, as there appear to be some very intriguing domestic, as well as geopolitical, factors involved in the whole mess.

Anyway: The code name was in fact 'Operation Dragon Fire', and it was a joint operation of USCS and BATF. It was initiated in late 1994 after NoCal police agencies, particularly in the SF Bay area, reported an 'alarming' increase in the number and 'sophistication' of contraband weapons being encountered dealing with 'street gangs' and drug trafficking during the previous few months.

The investigation led them to eventually center their attention on one Hammond Ku, a resident alien from Taiwan with close ties to Richard Chen, principal U.S. rep for Norinco, and Robert Ma, president of Dynasty Holdings, an Atlanta-based subsidiary of Poly Technologies. A warehouse owned by his company was identified as being the focal point of the smuggling operations.

The 'sting' consisted of UC U.S. Customs agents posing as weapons traffickers. They specifically represented themselves to Ku and his associates as suppliers to drug rings and street gangs in the U.S., and eventually brokered a deal with Ku for 2,000 AKMs from a PLA-owned arsenal. These were to be supplied at Ku's insistence with all Chinese markings removed and NK markings stamped on them in their place. Additionally, the Chinese source would provide North Korean 'End User Certificates' to ensure a greater 'plausible deniability' for the PRC's ministry-level official involvement in the deal. Two of those were identified by Ku as Norinco Export Mgr. Qim Qi Xin and VP/Operations Guo Chen Kum.

When he met with the agents to finalize the AK deal, Ku made a strong pitch to sell them more 'exotic' items, including 60mm mortars, various types of machine guns, supressed SMGs and handguns, RPGs, and shoulder-fired "Red Parakeet' surface-to-air missiles which he pointed out were capable of bringing down a 747. He came with a prepared price list for these items, and explained how payment was to be arranged throught the HK offices of the PRC's state-run Bank of China.

The focus at that point shifted to attempting to get one or more of the PRC officials to come to the U.S. so that the extent of PRC government involvement could be exposed and those persons prosecuted. That was not to be, due to some curious coincidences on the domestic political front.

As this was being set-up in mid 1996, the Clinton adminstration had suddenly granted a highly 'unusual' and completely unexpected exception to their own 1994 gun import ban for 100,000 semi-auto firearms exclusively for one Wang Jun, Chairman of Poly Group (parent of Poly Tech) and head of China International Trust and Investment Corp., the PRC's official ministry-level investment conglomerate with estimated assets of over $21 billion. This came on the heels of Charles Yah Lin Trie, a long-time FOB and fund raiser, obtaining an Oval Office visit for Wang with Bill, and Charlie's arrangement for over $600,000 to go to the Clinton Defense Fund.

It was also during the LORAL and other 'Chinagate' revelations that had the Clintons doing more damage control than the Monica stuff did.

Both BATF and Customs were contacted, first by reporters from the "Los Angeles Times" and soon after those from the "New York Times" citing tips they'd received from 'unnamed diplomatic sources' concerning a potentially huge story about Chinese government involvement in smuggling illegal arms into the U.S. and would they care to comment?

Fearing that the whole investigation was compromised, the plan to try for the 'big fish' was scrapped. The AK bust went down in May of 1996, resulting in the indictment of 14 individuals and Dynasty Holdings.

Several of the principal actors managed to skip the country, in some cases just hours before their warrants were to be served, including Richard Chen and Robert Ma.

While all that might not exactly rise to the level of being some small part of a "Master Plan for World Domination" to you, it still strikes me as being of somewhat more sinister intent than 'Che tee-shirts and sandals', or the dicta of Sun Tzu concerning the control of the mopey kids.

Of course, I could just be blinded by the glare coming off of my tin foil hat:rolleyes:

[mp510]

It's also a fact that North China Industries is operated by the People's Liberation Army.

[Manedwolf]

It's also a fact that North China Industries is operated by the People's Liberation Army.


As I mentioned above. I just personally see something wrong with buying a copy of an American M-14 from the Communist Chinese Army...and directly giving them money to fund their beating and killing of students and protesters, not to mention that if they ever invade Taiwan...

[Limeyfellow]

They got around any problems by linking the ban on Norinco firearms in response to the crackdown in Tiananmen square. It was a masterful act to do too, since it gave the moral highground. The domestic firearm companies were also rather happy with the decision as at that time Chinese firearms accounted for a 1/3 of the whole market and 1/2 of all imports being sold.

[El Tejon]

Tianamen Square was 1989.:confused:

If the PLA firearms ban was in response to this, the feds certainly took their time about it.:D