[colt.45]

alot of people say that their old rifles are accurate, how accurate. im talking about the sks, 98kmouser, m-1903, lee enfield, mosin nagat, or any other surplus rifle under $350.

[JohnKSa]

The Swedish Mausers are still under that price ceiling. All the ones I've shot would do under an inch at 100 yards with the proper ammunition.

I've heard similar claims from the folks shooting the K31 Swiss rifles, and the M39 Finnish Moisin Nagants aren't far behind.

They're probably the cream of the crop.

[Sunray]

Except for the SKS, it wasn't designed for anything but combat accuracy. It was designed as a stop gap semi-auto, to be issued to illiterate conscripts. The rest of 'em are usually very accurate. However, good ammo is essential. Surplus ammo is not made for great accuracy. Some of it can be very accurate, but generally it's made to give 3" or so groups at 100 yards. The rifles can do much better than that with good ammo. 1.5" to 2" at 100 depending on the barrel's condition.

[longhorngunman]

Accurate? Under $350, K31 hands down. Heck for $350 you could get four of em. Also Swedish Mausers are very nice but are hitting right at your price limit. Persian Mausers are considered accurate and very collectible at around $200. Also Finnish M39's are considered very accurate and the ammo is cheap, ammo for the mauser is very cheap as well. Just clean the rifle thouroughly after firing as both the M39 and mauser use corrosive ammo. For the money I don't think you can beat the K31, Cheaper than the rest and probably the most accurate, some will say the Swedish mauser is slightly better. Heck, just get em all.:)

[longhorngunman]

Also everyone needs a SKS. While not as accurate as the other rifles I listed, most of the SKS's especially the Yugo's are minute of pumpkin at 100 yards.:D

[cracked butt]

My persian and Czech 98/22 mausers will outshoot my K-31s with handloads- the looooong sight radius probably has a bit to to with this. You can still get swedes for under $300, they are very good shooters. My 03A3 has really excellent sights and is easy to shoot- I only shoot cast bullets through it and it can easily put 10 shots under 2". For out of the box accuracy with readily available and consistant ammo- its hard to beat the k-31/GP-11 combination in any surplus rifle unless you handload.
The Mosin nagantns (91/30) and Lee Enfields shoot decent at 100 yards but aren't tack drivers or anything close to that description,of course I haven't bothered to handload for either yet, but I really like both for shooting fun, especially the MN where I can get decent surplus ammo for dirt cheap.

Take your pick, they're all good.

[Clark]

I like Mausers and 91/30s, but the trick is to find one with a good bore, drill and tap for scope, weld the bolt, glass bed, and do a trigger job. Most have bad bores, and then I rebarrel.

Enfields are more trouble to mount the scope and many have bad bores.

K31s all have good bores, but have scope mounting issues.

M39s are heavy.

Garrands are heavy.

What I like the best are the Mausers that I have rebarrelled with Lothar Walther, Lilja, Shilen, Hart, Krieger, or any premium barrel I don't yet have, like Pac Nor, Border, etc. The premimum barrel stays clean longer and cleans faster. It shoots straight when hot.
A good military barrel will give three good shots before it gets hot, which is probably enough for the calibers they come in, but for small calibers and varmints, I want to keep shooting.

[thereisnospoon]

Most of my surplus rifles shoot better than I do at 100 meters with iron sights and proper ammo.

Most of the Swedes I've owned were A#1. The Mausers and Moisins are ok, and the Enfeilds are good, especially with the peep rear (no4 MkI [?]).

[armoredman]

My Mosin M38 will shoot 3 inch at 100 yards with handloads, (so far, first try, will be better next time!), 3.5 with Wolf, and about 6 with surplus. The Yugo SKS shoots about 6 inch with "mixmaster" ammo, handloads haven't really tightened that up much, but experimentation continues - especially since the rangemaster flips over cheap milsurp rifles being shot with handloads....:)

[colt.45]

does anybody have a k98, and where can i get a good one

[losangeles]

Heck, just get em all.:)

I like that line of thinking!

[DMK]

With surplus ammo, I'd have to say my K31's the most accurate. You can't beat Swiss GP11 ammo with any surplus ammo (or even cheap commercial) out there. My M39 Mosin and 1903A3 Springfield probably have the potential to keep up with match ammo or reloads.

The No4 Enfields look like they have some potential too. I've only shot Pakistani and South African surplus through mine, but they have great sights and seem pretty consistant. I'll bet they'd shoot really well with handloads.

The K31 is the best bang for the buck though. It's great shooting rifle for under $150, under $100 if you don't care about how it looks, and 450 rounds of great quality ammo for $160. You can't touch a nice Springfield for under $400, or an M39 Mosin for under $250. You can get some ugly, but good shooting Enfields for under $100, but service quality ammo is $10 for 20, way more for anything near match quality.

If you can get 2 or 3 MOA out of an SKS, you're doing well. Again, a nice tight Yugo 59/66 might shoot under 2MOA with better quality ammo, but not the common stuff.

[jeremywills]

so far with some practice and me settling down and actually taking my time the m44 I picked up not too long ago is pretty accurate. Its more my shooting probably than the rifle but 3 to 5 inches at 100 yards has been what Im able to shoot, note its the carbine version so a full length 91/30 or one of the finnish ones would probably net better results

I also have been interested in finding a decent k98, also want a full length mosin too im afraid now

[DMK]

does anybody have a k98, and where can i get a good one
www.samcoglobal.com (http://www.samcoglobal.com/rifles.html)

www.centuryarms.com (http://www.centuryarms.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=23&osCsid=c2b16bd7d09414811bf14d9499e37580)

www.coledistributing.com

www.empirearms.com

[ocabj]

I'll take the Swedish Mauser, hands down.

After that, the K31 or any 1903 variant.

[shecky]

After a few months of ownership, I finally got to shoot my K31 last week. Using surplus GP11 ammo and shooting offhand with stock iron sights, I was pleasantly surprised by what I could hit at about 100 yds. I doubt I'll ever try to scope the thing, but it is a very nicely crafted, sweet shooting rifle. They can still be found for under $100. Get one while you can.

[KadicDeshi]

K31s all have good bores, but have scope mounting issues.

I presume you mean the offset of the scope. I had no trouble setting up my clamp-on mount and the offset to the left doesn't really throw me much.

I'm in the process of stripping the old finish off the stock and refinishing with tung oil. I love this rifle.

Barrett

[Firehand]

I've shot 2" groups at 100 yards with both #1 Mk3 and #4 Mk1 Enfields and standard ball, just takes one with a good barrel.

Don't know about other versions, but my Yugo SKS will break clay pigeons every time at 100 if I do my part; bit limiting factor is the sights.

As was mentioned, just about every Swede Mauser I've seen that wasn't shot out will get around 1" at 100 with good ammo.

M1 depends both on ammo and on how things are fitted; if the gas tube/slight assembly is loose, or if the trigger assembly doesn't lock tight, accuracy goes downhill. Same there as the Enfields, barrel is the big factor.

Mosin Nagants, big factor seems to be ammo; bore diameter varies, so one brand or another may work better.

[el44vaquero]

I have a 6.5 Carcano surplus rifle that my grandfather bought for $75. I love this rifle and can shoot circles around my buddies with it. Only drawback is the $40 per box of 20. Kinda makes the skin crawl to think two dollars every time you pull the trigger.

[Bridger]

I have a 6.5 Carcano surplus rifle that my grandfather bought for $75. I love this rifle and can shoot circles around my buddies with it. Only drawback is the $40 per box of 20. Kinda makes the skin crawl to think two dollars every time you pull the trigger.

Try grafs.com for Privi-Partisan 6.5 carcano, much cheaper!

[mustanger98]

does anybody have a k98, and where can i get a good one

I got a good one from SOG, but when I checked with them just now, they seem to be out. You might call 'em and ask if they have any, but just not on their web site. AIM Surplus had some a while back, but right now, all they got is Yugo M48 which ain't a German K98k. You might check Samco Global and there's a couple of other places. You might run an internet search for "K98k Mauser" and see what you find. I hope that helps.

[rem870]

like mustanger98 I purchased my 98k from SOG. It was in great shape. The rifle also shoots great. The only thing I don't like is that mine shoots a little bit high.

[colt.45]

but what is sog?

[rem870]

S.O.G. stands for Southern Ohio Gun, a company that sells guns. They usually have some pretty good stuff. http://www.southernohiogun.com/

[Stiletto Null]

I like my M48, but all I know about it so far is minute-of-can at 25yd.

[MarshallDodge]

I have a sporterized 03-A3 I bought from a friend for $200.

It has a Timney trigger and a Walnut Monte Carlo style stock. When he first bought it I was spotting for him while he was sighting in the 3x9 Tasco scope he had just put on. He took his first shot and I could see the hole. He took another and I could not see it the second hole. He shot again and I still could not see it. We went down range and there was this little ragged hole where he had put all three shots at 100 yards.

I told him that if he was to ever sell it that I was first in line. He sold it to me a year later because he felt the trigger was too light for a hunting rifle.

Once in a while I see them on GunsAmerica for less than $350.
http://www.gunsamerica.com/guns/976668445.htm
I think this is the same one but has pics:
http://www.gunsamerica.com/guns/976668446.htm

I have a Garand and I consider it a fun gun to shoot, not necessarily accurate. It could be made accurate but I am happy the way it is.

I have shot a Mosin and was not real impressed with the trigger.

[MCgunner]

Minute of PUMPKIN? :D :D :D :D

The SKSs I've fired, and I own two of 'em, are 3moa guns. That's not exactly target accuracy, but with a proper load they'll shoot 200 yards for hunting accuracy. They're better in MY experience than any AKs I've fired. thing is, they're so cheap you just HAVE to have just one. They make great truck guns, bop around the ranch guns, whatever. They're rugged as heck and cheap and the ammo is dirt cheap.

DON'T get a Spanish mauser in 7x57! I had one, sold it. I had it drilled and tapped and had a scope on it. It would only shoot well with 175 grain round nose. If that's fine with you, it'd shoot about 2moa with my best round nose load. Woulda been a heck of a 200 yard hog gun with those bullets, but forget about the 140 grainers and such. It has a super fast 1:7 twist to stabilize the military 170 someting grain spitzers that were issue for the gun. Some of these guns were converted to .308. They're not popular because of the old '95 cocks on closing action isn't quite as strong as a 98.

That's the extent of my accuracy from military weapons personal knowledge. I have a Hakim battle rifle in 8x57 that shoots rather well, about 2 MOA. I also have an old pattern 88 mauser converted to 8x57 spitzer that shoots okay, but high as heck, not to point of aim. That Hakim was cheap, in great shape, and is an awesome looking HUGE thing. It sure demands attention at the range. You can rattle off 10 rounds of 8x57 with that thing faster than 7.62x39 from an SKS. But, it weighs about 11 lbs. It has a really effective muzzle break on it, sounds like a friggin' ma deuce when you fire it fast, LOL!

[Cosmoline]

The best on average are the K-31's shooting GP-11 ball or similar handloads. The ones I've owned have all been MOA.

Swedish Mausers are also very good but may not all be MOA.

Finnish Mosins can be MOA shooters but are variable and have different ammo preferences.

Soviet Mosins aren't as bad as their rep. The pre-invasion ones from before 1942 are actually quite solid shooters if you get one with a sound bore and good crown. They can give 2MOA groups with some work. Tula seems to be the best arsenal. The soviet carbines usually give 3MOA to 4MOA groups, but can be pieplate shooters if badly abused or put together with mixed parts. The best shooting carbines are the unissued Polish M-44's.

The pre-Sovient M-91's are often very badly worn but with the right handloads can give 2MOA or better groups. With a few loads I have a PTG from 1916 that will give MOA groups.

Most German and Czech military mausers range from 2MOA to pieplate depending on the amount of use. The best are the unissued rifles the Czechs sold to the Persians.

South American Mausers are usually German-built and can be extremely accurate if you load the right bullets. The M-91 Argies and the pre-98 Chiliean prefer heavier bullets than are usually loaded in their respective cartridges today. If you value your money never sporterize any of these as value on intact South American Mausers is going through the roof as military Mauser collecting gets more serious. For all you know that old Mauser you drill tap and hack might be a Venezuelan Olympic rifle worth over a grand.

Mauser short rifles and true carbines usually give 3MOA or so groups, but are quite rare and almost always collector's items.

[mdcops8]

yea i bought a turk k98 from a pawn store for 100$$ and it shoots 1/2moa at 200 and i love it. also bought a 91/30 and doesnt shoot very well, i think i am going to sell it and buy another one and keep buying them until i get a good one.

[frogomatic]

I shoot bowling pins at 175 yards with my SKS pretty reliably, and at 100 or less, it'll hit every time, so long as I do my part. It's no tack driver, not by any stretch of the imagination, but it's as accurate as my needs demand.

edit: the SKS is a '51 Tula

[spiroxlii]

My 2 M44s shoot pretty well, but I haven't done any scientific testing or formal range shooting with them. All I know is that I hit what I aim at (soda cans) at ranges from 50 to 75 yards.

I seem to get smaller groups from my Ishapore 2A, which is an Indian copy of an Enfield No1. MkIII but chambered in .308 Winchester/7.62 NATO instead of .303 British.

Speaking of Enfields, my Lithgow SMLE is very good too.

Just bought a K31 today! Haven't shot it yet, though.

[TAB]

My K- 31 shoots better then I do at 100( iron, off hand... rests are for zeroing scopes and sissy :neener:)

[EricTheBarbarian]

The most accurate milsurp that I have and shoot is my m44. Shoots hands down much better than my 91/30 and my k98. The hungarian surplus seems to shoot best, alot better than the 1950s yugo surplus. Ive heard good things about the czech ammo but havent yet cracked into a case that i have.

No formal testing and measuring has been done, but hitting steel plates at 275 yrds is no problem. Glass bottles and milk jugs are also no match between 75 and 175 yrds.

[Oohrah]

Most of them are over that price range but the following I own are
MOAs scoped on most of them.
1. Most of my 03s and 03A3
2. Enfield 1917
3. British Mk4 No1 Sniper
4. Match Grade Garand in 7.62x51 open sights:D

[Bazooka Joe71]

Accurate? Under $350, K31 hands down. Heck for $350 you could get four of em

Where?

[MachIVshooter]

Incidentally, I was just out chronographing some loads on Sunday with some milsurps and shot some informal groups. All were at 50 yards, open sights, and rifles rested on a big cable spool.

The MAS 36 7.5x54mm, 6 rounds, 1-3/4"

http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n117/Hunter2506/MAS36target.jpg

The Swiss M1911, 10 rounds, 2-1/8" if you discount the one that fell really low. 3-1/8 if you don't.

http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n117/Hunter2506/M1911target.jpg

Swedish M1896 (Carl Gustav). 10 rounds, 1-15/16". It is noteworthy that 6 of those shots were in one ragged hole:D.

http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n117/Hunter2506/M1896target.jpg

I'm sure all of these rifles would be capable of much better from a sandbagged rest and with optics, but this is a decent representation of real-world accuracy. The Swede is the nicest shooter, the M1911 has by far the best trigger of any milsurp I've shot, and the MAS 36 is rather brutal on the shoulder.

[cleardiddion]

I can usually manage to get 1.5 to 2 MOA at 100yds with iron sights with my 1942 M91/30. Not the most accurate rifle for sure, but I managed to get twice a week practice for a few months which probably helped a ton.

[cracked butt]

Here's a target from the first time I ever shot a Swedish M96 rifle. I jerked the first shot which went to the left, the others grouped OK. Probably could have done better with a scope, that orange dot is kind of hard to see at 100 yards using iron sights. That type of shooting with the M41b or a scoped K-31 isn't all that hard.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v635/brimic/swede.jpg

[res45]

Minute of PUMPKIN?
My YUGO likes small PUMPKINS
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j1/rhsikes/NoLoad.jpg

[mr.trooper]

I LOVE my Swedish Mauser, and Enfield #4. They can both shoot better than me.

[GD]

The typical mosin or 8mm mauser will shoot 3-4 MOA. There are however several types of each that are exception such as the M39 Finnish mosin and the 98/22 Czech mauser. I have that the Finns and the Czechs generally make mosins and mausers respectively that shoot great. In terms of other generally accurate rifles, you can't go wrong with Swedish and Swiss rifles. On the whole, military surplus rifles were not made to be tack drivers or finely finished. They were made to be rugged weapons that should hit a man sized target out to about 400 yards. The more modern semiautomatics (SKS, AK) were made to hit a man sized target out to about 200 yards. Yes you can throw rounds out to a greater distance, but your likelyhood of hitting the enemy were decreased greatly. I have been collecting military surplus for about 15 years. My goal was to get 3 MOA or better rifles in WW2 or earlier rifles. Of the rifles that I bought that looked on 1st inspection to be great rifles, about 20% were poor shooters (over 4 MOA). My current collection of 54 rifles (except for a Japanese T99 which I haven't shot) all do 3 MOA or better. On average my Finns do 2 MOA and all my M98/22s, Swede M96, and K31 do 1 MOA. In those 15 years I had to purchase about 65 rifles and sell off about a dozen to end up with my collection of 54 that were accurate enough for my tastes.

[cracked butt]

My current collection of 54 rifles (except for a Japanese T99 which I haven't shot) all do 3 MOA or better. On average my Finns do 2 MOA and all my M98/22s, Swede M96, and K31 do 1 MOA. In those 15 years I had to purchase about 65 rifles and sell off about a dozen to end up with my collection of 54 that were accurate enough for my tastes.

My experience is the same- the Czech 98/22s, 98/29, swede 96s, and 1911 rifle, K-31s are all moa shooters or very close to it, so does my 03a3, though its mainly because it has a new barrel on it.. My 94 carbine shoots 3" or so groups at 100 yards but that's probably more to do with the short sight radius and shooter than the rifle itself. My enfields, Hungarian mannlichers, mosin nagants (with the exception of a Finn rework), and K98s are all much less interesting as shooters than they are for the history behind them.

The jury is still out on my new aquisition, a Husqvarna M38 that looks to be unissued and possibly even unfired, not sure if I'm going to shoot it yet or not though.

[Mr_Pale_Horse]

Shooting performance of milsurps over the years:

1. Turkish Mauser, M1938 (1941 Kirikale), shoots under an inch with all loads tried to date.
2. M48A unissued Yugo. Just over an inch for all loads tried to date; best milsurp trigger I have ever used.
3. 1895 Chilean Mauser. 1.5" groups
4. M38 Swede on a 1916 Gustafs receiver - about the same is the Chilean, but used for less than 40 rounds, of Remington factory ammo.
5. Enfield No. 4 Mk II 303's - Both shots 2.5" groups with Sierra handloads
6. M1903 Mk I Springfield 30-06 - 3.5 groups with Remington 180 grain ammo
7. Norinco SKS - 4.5" groups with Chinese Surplus Ammo
8. M1916 Guardia Civil 7.62 conversion - 5" groups
9. M48 Yugo - 6" groups; vertical stringing with barrel heating
10. M1916 Spanish in 7x57 - Minute of plywood sheet with one of those dark but strong bores (aka shot out, ready for the scrap heap)

[bearmgc]

My Swede does MOA at 100yd with factory commercial ammo and a little bigger group at 200yds, but not much. Its been sporterized, but barrel nor receiver altered. Not bad for a military surplus.

[Wheeler44]

I gotta put one in for the Model of 1917 enfield. Mine is a Remington. Since it is one of many "sported" enfields it was too cheap to mention and is very accurate.

[Grizzly Adams]

......

[Grizzly Adams]

..............

[Grizzly Adams]

6.5 X 55 Swedish Mauser hands down is one of the, if not the, most inherantly accurate rounds ever made.

In 1987 I started ordering Swedes from Century Arms. I cleaned the cosmoline out of and shot each one and all shot MOA or better with the Century Arms 140 gr. ammo.

Of course I kept the pick of the litter! And will not part with it.

I have converted about 10 over the years to sporters. The sporter that I built for my son will shot 1/2 MOA groups (w/handloads) off the bench.

M96 Swedish Mauser ~$300 - both the following have carried the M96 at one time or other:
Southern Ohio Gun
Century Arms

[iamkris]

I order of accuracy of my own rifles:

Swisss K31
Finn M39
Swede M96
Enfield No 4 Mk I*
Springfield 03A3
Garand
Mauser K98k
Yugo M24/47
La Corona FR8
MN91/30
MN M44 (bayonet extended)
MN M38
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
SKS