MD - Even church is no refuge from criminals


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Norton
January 2, 2006, 08:34 AM
MD is somewhere close to the top with regards to robbery. Now it seems that one enterprising criminal has decided to go where there will be numerous targets.....church:



http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/local/harford/bal-md.holdup02jan02,1,4923524.story?coll=bal-local-harford


Churchgoers robbed in Harford County
Gunman enters sanctuary during service


staff and wire reports

January 2, 2006

Harford County authorities were searching last night for a gunman who entered a church in the Fountain Green community near Bel Air yesterday evening during a service and robbed several worshipers of their cash and valuables, said a spokesman for the county sheriff's office.

Shortly before 7 p.m., a man armed with a handgun and wearing dark clothing and a ski mask burst into Mount Zion United Methodist Church in the 1600 block of Churchville Road through a rear door during the evening service and began yelling and waving the gun around, said Bob Thomas, the sheriff's spokesman.

About 50 people were attending the service, said Thomas.

The Rev. Craig McLaughlin, pastor of the church, was in the front pew when the gunman barged in.

"I was hoping and praying that everyone [would stay] still and calm, and hoped that there would be no violence," McLaughlin said last night.

"He ordered several children and their father to go up the aisles getting purses and wallets," McLaughlin, 48, said.

The gunman forced the children and their father to put the wallets and purses in a pile on the floor and used a bag to gather them up, the pastor said. At least eight people were robbed, said Thomas.

The gunman seemed very nervous, McLaughlin said.

After ordering frightened congregants to the front of the church, the gunman fled with an undetermined amount of cash and valuables, Thomas said.

No injuries were reported. "Thank God, everyone did stay calm," the pastor said.

The incident lasted about 10 minutes, McLaughlin said. After the gunman fled, several churchgoers called police on their cell phones.

Thomas said he could not recall members of a church being robbed during services and described the incident as "particularly unusual and frightening."

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1911 guy
January 2, 2006, 11:19 AM
Myself, my wife, my son and my pistol go to church on Sunday mornings. No, I never expect to need a .45 in church, but I travel to and from with my family and need to be able to protect them, who's to say we'll never have a flat and be held up at the roadside? These things don't happen frequently, but they do happen. Unfortunate, really.

Leatherneck
January 2, 2006, 11:26 AM
And yet most states that permit CCW authorize a restriction on carrying in churches--even the Olde Dominion frowns on it.

BTW Norton, the ComPost this morning has an article on the increased murder rates in the greater DC area. Guess which county and city win top honors?
You guessed it-good old DC and Prince Georges County. The rates in the other regional jurisdictions are miniscule compared to the home of the gun-banners. Ironic, no?

TC

TexasRifleman
January 2, 2006, 11:32 AM
And this is why I have to wonder about those who say they CCW only in "dangerous" or "higher risk" areas. How do you know?

Norton
January 2, 2006, 11:52 AM
BTW Norton, the ComPost this morning has an article on the increased murder rates in the greater DC area. Guess which county and city win top honors?
You guessed it-good old DC and Prince Georges County. The rates in the other regional jurisdictions are miniscule compared to the home of the gun-banners. Ironic, no?

Ironic that the banners mostly live way out in the "nice" suburbs with high fences, no? ;)

Harry Tuttle
January 2, 2006, 11:59 AM
a gunman
a man

i wonder if the ski mask obscured all evidence of any racial characteristics

armoredman
January 2, 2006, 12:05 PM
the restriction on "bearing steel in the house of the Lord" comes from the Middle Ages, when gold and silver altar plates/chalices were around, and thieves and badnits were interested in taking them, melting them down, etc, especially when only unarmed monks stood between. So, the stricture of being unarmed in church was added, and the promise of hellfire added to make it stick.
Having said that, that is my rationalization for packing in church, in addition to that famous incident in South Africa, where a guy with a 5 shot snub shot it out with AK weilding bandits, and survived.

ARperson
January 2, 2006, 12:53 PM
Concealed means concealed. Period.

About the only place I won't carry is federal and state buildings. Otherwise, how does anyone know.

Besides, there are too many stories of crimes occurring in places like churches and schools not to want to carry there.

Taurus 617 CCW
January 2, 2006, 01:03 PM
Shortly before 7 p.m., a man armed with a handgun and wearing dark clothing and a ski mask burst into Mount Zion United Methodist Church in the 1600 block of Churchville Road through a rear door during the evening service and began yelling and waving the gun around"

Not in my church! :cuss: About fifteen percent of the congregation is armed at any given time, including myself. I keep a Glock 27 in my "special" bible zip cover or my Springfield 1911 A1. If he wants to wave a gun in the sanctuary at my church he is in for a real surprise.

TechBrute
January 2, 2006, 01:07 PM
Robbery, schmobbery...

Church Shooting (http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/law/july-dec99/shooting_9-16a.html)

V4Vendetta
January 2, 2006, 01:47 PM
You think getting mugged in church is bad?

"It could never happen in a country like Australia!” But it did. At 9:35 Sunday morning, July 21,?1985, David Winder began his Bible discourse in the Casula Kingdom Hall of Jehovah’s Witnesses, in Sydney. Twenty-five minutes later, a bomb blast blew him through the roof, demolished the hall, killed one man, and sent to the hospital 46 of the 109 present. It couldn’t happen in Australia, but it did. This firsthand report from the Watch Tower Society’s branch office in Australia reveals the horror and the tragedy of that morning, but it also underlines the thrilling determination and faith of the Witnesses there to press on in meeting together and in publishing the good news of Jehovah’s Kingdom.

A POWERFUL bomb, estimated by police to be one kilogram (2.2 lb) of gelignite, had been hidden under the speaker’s platform, timed to go off during the Bible lecture. Its explosion sent the speaker through the roof and landed him on a pile of debris outside the hall—bleeding, critically injured, with two broken legs.

Graham Wykes, sitting in the front row, was killed instantly. His wife and two daughters suffered severe injuries. One member of the Society’s branch staff, Sue Schulz, had her nose broken and lost most of her front teeth. One interested attender had to have shrapnel removed from her eyes. A three-month-old baby was hospitalized with a concussion.

By Sunday evening 14 of the 46 hospitalized were held over; the others were allowed to go home. Most of them were suffering from shock and damaged eardrums. Observers were amazed that more were not killed, since the hall was reduced to a shambles.

After a three-day hearing last April, the Coroner’s Court of Sydney, Australia, decided that there was “insufficient evidence” to commit the chief suspect to trial for the July?21, 1985, bombing of a Kingdom Hall of Jehovah’s Witnesses near Sydney, according to the Daily Telegraph of Sydney. The blast leveled the building, killed one man, and injured scores of others, more than a dozen seriously.

Make no mistake though. The muggee's have my sympathy too.

stevelyn
January 2, 2006, 09:47 PM
Anyone who dosen't think they should carry in church needs to listen to GOA's Executive Director Larry Pratt's interview with Charl Van Wyk on church attacks.
In all the church shootings/robberies that have taken place in the last few years, I don't recall any having been stopped or prevented by divine intervention.
In Glock We Trust.

V4Vendetta
January 2, 2006, 09:51 PM
"In Glock We Trust."

That's a good one. My motto is:

Nothing says "Freeze punk!" like a shotgun.

Standing Wolf
January 2, 2006, 10:15 PM
Obviously, we need more laws against bringing guns into churches to prevent criminals from robbing congregations.

glockamolee
January 2, 2006, 10:19 PM
What does the Bible have to say about weapons?? Hmmm...


Luke 11 verse 21
"When a strong man armed keepeth his palace, his goods are in peace." (KJV)

Matthew 26 verse 51
"At that moment one of those with Jesus reached out his hand and drew his sword. He struck the high priest's slave and cut off his ear."

Luke 22 verse 35
Christ ordered His Followers to be ARMED!

"And he said unto them, When I sent you without purse, and scrip, and shoes, lacked ye any thing? And they said, Nothing. 36 Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one. 37 For I say unto you, that this that is written must yet be accomplished in me, And he was reckoned among the transgressors: for the things concerning me have an end. 38 And they said, Lord, behold, here are two swords. And he said unto them, It is enough."



For those who consider the word "SWORD" to be figurative language for spiritual warfare... You're right. SWORD as used in the above verses however, refers to the sharp metal object which cuts other humans in battle.

In closing, it is also mentioned that MURDER (not self defense) is a sin. Scripture also mentions that "Whoever Lives by the sword, shall die by the sword." Matthew 26 verse 52. I think of Hitler and all the Dictators that brutalise their people (but get overthrown in the end).

Scripture has M A N Y accounts of the sword and weapons of war (non spiritual) being used; especially in the old testament part of the Bible. MURDER, on the other hand is a distinct sin that is forbidden.

Firethorn
January 2, 2006, 11:30 PM
Yes, there is a difference between one who 'lives by the sword', and somebody who has one for self defense.

It's like the difference between a guy looking for trouble and one prepared for trouble.

"Lives by the sword": Mercenaries, duelists, dictators, tyrants, etc...

Lambo
January 3, 2006, 12:19 AM
http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/loc...-local-harford

WoW! Fountain Green is only a couple miles from my House.

stevelyn
January 3, 2006, 12:25 AM
Scripture also mentions that "Whoever Lives by the sword, shall die by the sword." Matthew 26 verse 52. I think of Hitler and all the Dictators that brutalise their people (but get overthrown in the end)

Interesting take on that verse.

I have a David Grossman "On Killing" lecture on CD. David Grossman uses a lot of references to the Bible and Judeo-Christian ethics in his lectures on deadly force and killing.
His interpretation of that verse is if you raise your sword/gun/weapon to threaten lawful authority, you could/will die as a consequence of taking that action.

I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with either. Both could be right, but I'm certain the verse dosen't include a prohibition against legitimate deadly force in self-defense or the defense of others.

bnolsen
January 3, 2006, 12:27 AM
In our church I know of at least 4 people who carry.

Pastor, myself, 2 other guys. At least those are the ones I know of...we might get 90 people or so on a Sunday morning.

I guess it just must be the type of church I go to.

Preacherman
January 3, 2006, 12:38 AM
Duplicate threads merged.

Lambo
January 3, 2006, 12:43 AM
If anyone can't connect the Link here's the Text,

staff and wire reports

January 2, 2006

Harford County authorities were searching last night for a gunman who entered a church in the Fountain Green community near Bel Air yesterday evening during a service and robbed several worshipers of their cash and valuables, said a spokesman for the county sheriff's office.

Shortly before 7 p.m., a man armed with a handgun and wearing dark clothing and a ski mask burst into Mount Zion United Methodist Church in the 1600 block of Churchville Road through a rear door during the evening service and began yelling and waving the gun around, said Bob Thomas, the sheriff's spokesman.

About 50 people were attending the service, said Thomas.

The Rev. Craig McLaughlin, pastor of the church, was in the front pew when the gunman barged in.

"I was hoping and praying that everyone [would stay] still and calm, and hoped that there would be no violence," McLaughlin said last night.

"He ordered several children and their father to go up the aisles getting purses and wallets," McLaughlin, 48, said.

The gunman forced the children and their father to put the wallets and purses in a pile on the floor and used a bag to gather them up, the pastor said. At least eight people were robbed, said Thomas.

The gunman seemed very nervous, McLaughlin said.

After ordering frightened congregants to the front of the church, the gunman fled with an undetermined amount of cash and valuables, Thomas said.

No injuries were reported. "Thank God, everyone did stay calm," the pastor said.

The incident lasted about 10 minutes, McLaughlin said. After the gunman fled, several churchgoers called police on their cell phones.

Thomas said he could not recall members of a church being robbed during services and described the incident as "particularly unusual and frightening."
_______________________________________________

Maryland, one of the few States without a Shall Issue CCL!!!!:fire:

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