Where are we now?


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Werewolf
January 2, 2006, 12:34 PM
Another thread that described the various stages that a nation goes thru from birth to death got me to wondering just what stage the USA is currently in.

I believe we have moved into the dependency stage. The masses have finally understood (wrongly) that they have the power to vote themselves into prosperity by stealing from those who actually produce and transfering it to themselves thru the active agency of elected officials.

What say you...

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Old Dog
January 2, 2006, 03:44 PM
To me it would seem the country is mired in a combination of:
Abundance,
complacency,
apathy,
and dependence ...
I'd like to believe -- and I think there's much cause to believe -- that there are still some out there with great courage who want us to return to a time of spiritual faith and liberty ...

Of course, it would seem I'm not as cynical as many THR members (yet) ... The thread Werewolf refers to - this was the thesis of one Prof. Alexander Tyler, who came up with these stages of development over 200 years ago - while we were still British colonies.

And, as I posited in the thread: Ah, yes, but life was much different then; life was shorter, uncertain and unequivocably much simpler. I greatly suspect that our technological advances, our advances in medicine and science, along with the ability citizens now have for instantaneous, real-time unfiltered communication with each other from almost anywhere on the globe has rendered the good Dr. Tyler's thesis invalid.

I am certainly behind the notion that there's a critical need today for an intellectual and spiritual revival.

I just cannot yet accept the notion that the concept, the flame of liberty, has been totally extinguished already.

The Drew
January 2, 2006, 04:08 PM
Dependance...

If the government closed it's doors tomorrow and only funded things it actuallyhas the constitutional authority for, the economy would collapse in a HUGE way... how many thousands of people that work for fedgov, or their livelyhood is directly tied to fedgov? We've painted ourselves into a corner... The collapse comes sooner, rather than later.

RealGun
January 2, 2006, 04:32 PM
Gee, only one glass-half-full vote so far.

fjolnirsson
January 2, 2006, 04:56 PM
Gee, only one glass-half-full vote so far.

That was me. I meant to vote "dependence, but clicked the wrong box by mistake.:o

TallPine
January 2, 2006, 05:01 PM
You left out the "awkward stage" as an option ;)

Werewolf
January 2, 2006, 06:07 PM
To me it would seem the country is mired in a combination of:
Abundance,
complacency,
apathy,
and dependence ...
I'd like to believe -- and I think there's much cause to believe -- that there are still some out there with great courage who want us to return to a time of spiritual faith and liberty ...Well the universe is an analog one after all and being in multiple stages concurrently does make sense.

Our population is so large that indeed various proportions of it probably are in different stages.

However, I do not believe that the main thesis has been rendered moot by modern technology. Look at the western european countries who are most definitely in a dependence stage. Many countries in Africa can easily be categorized in the 1st bondage stage.

Then there's China - struggling to enter the abundance stage - trying (probably in vain) to bypass the faith and liberty phases all together.

Indeed the universe is not digital and it can sometimes be difficult to pigeonhole entire societies.

1911 guy
January 2, 2006, 06:34 PM
We saw abundance post World War two, complacency followed in the late seventies through the eighties.

beerslurpy
January 2, 2006, 06:51 PM
Most people in NYC are somewhere in apathy or dependence. Half I feel sorry for, the rest I want to stab with fork.

Down in Florida, most people are in abundance or complacency. Much of the spirit that makes us Americans is alive and well down here. Hard work and honesty are alive and well.

I think the people with brains migrate around the country from time to time. The problem is that the federal government doesnt let famine or natural disasters swallow up the stupids that are left behind. NOLA had possibility, but they are likely going to get a huge bailout and rebuild. I wish a meteor would fall on new jersey and bury everything from boston to DC.

Old Dog
January 2, 2006, 07:27 PM
Look at the western european countries who are most definitely in a dependence stage. Yes, but I think that if you examine the constitutions of these countries, it's clear they support firstly, a more powerful government, but also lay the groundwork for development of the more socialistic aspects of governance. Their constitutions do not incorporate the regard for the rights of individual and the citizenry that our Constitution does. Europeans, having come up in older, more established countries, also seem to me (broad generalization to follow) as being by nature more complacent citizens so longs as their basic needs (employment with seven weeks a year paid vacation, good food, strong tobacco, coffee and a wide variety of newspapers) are being met ... I remember being in Paris when public transit was on strike, the garbage collectors were on strike, the police were on strike and the newspapers were on strike. The city stunk, traffic was horrible, crime was up, but the only thing anyone seemed p-o'ed about was not having their customary newspaper in front of them during their three hours of each day sitting in the cafe chainsmoking Gauloises or Disc Bleus and sipping cafe' ...

Then there's China - struggling to enter the abundance stage - trying (probably in vain) to bypass the faith and liberty phases all together.China is a most interesting case and I think it's going to prove even more interesting for those of us who closely follow events within the country.

GoRon
January 2, 2006, 07:35 PM
I voted dependency. Many are still stuck in apathy and complacency. Dependencey is now institutionalized and Republicans vie with Democrats for bringing home the bacon with no shame.

The "small government" wing of the Republican party is a minority now. The natural allies of them vote 3rd party in spite.

stevelyn
January 2, 2006, 09:18 PM
Definitely in the Dependence phase and slipping fast. Look at how many people look to the .gov for everything rather than looking to themselves.

We have declined into a nation of children that can't think or act in our own behalf without seeking .gov seal of approval. It's way worse in the urban areas than rural, but it does exist in rural areas as well, especially on tribal lands and with city transplants that brought their political baggage with them.

Have yourselves a govt approved day.:barf:

Zundfolge
January 2, 2006, 09:31 PM
We're beginning that transition from Apathy to Dependency on average (although some parts of the country are farther along than others).

Chris Rhines
January 2, 2006, 09:34 PM
I'm not sure we ever got out of the bondage phase.

- Chris

longeyes
January 2, 2006, 10:03 PM
All of the above.

Wllm. Legrand
January 3, 2006, 12:10 AM
Having some "small acquintance" with that blurb, I would have changed the question.

Frankly, I think he left out one significant stage (which does not preclude the others): Decadence.

I would put this country as falling from the arms of decadence into the pit of bondage once again.

Apathy has long been passed. Not only children, but their parents are as dumb as posts about themselves, their country's history, science, mathematics, and especially economics. They have SOLD OUT to government, government schools, and the long-term welfare of their children. I could carry on about a culture that values entertainment over enlightenment, but I think most of you catch my drift.

The American people deserve what they shall soon be getting.

And they'll soon get it good and hard.

Here's another blurb by Prof. Tyler, especially poignant in this Age of the Common Man, who worships FedGOD more than the Almighty, it seems:

"A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover theat they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasurey. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that democracy always collapes over loose fiscal policy, alwasy flollwed by a dictatorship."

Now who seems to be voting the most benefits these days from the public treasury? Hint: You can't blame Bill Clinton. Hell, now even the PRETENSE of financial responsibility is gone.

I think of this..and keep a copy of both in my daily planner. I think of that bast**d Bush and the other traitors from both parties whenever I read it and consider issues of finance, money supply, debt load, and budgetary excesses.

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