Starting firearms recommendations.


PDA






jlbraun
January 3, 2006, 02:54 AM
Hello all,

I live in Colorado, and am looking to start down the responsible firearms ownership trail. I tend to read a lot before I start down a path, so this has been a long time coming - the last firearm I shot was a .22LR bolt-action in Boy Scouts.

I will be looking into getting a CCW soon.

Firstly, where is the best place to start? I'd like to find an indoor range around me.

Secondly, what are the best guidelines for shooting on open land in Colorado? What about private land with the permission of the owner?

Lastly, what is the opinion on pistols that have only a trigger safety (no manual safety), such as the Walther?

I have been looking at firearms for the following roles:

home defense shotgun
CCW pistol
Rifle

Based on recommendations expressed here as well as that of my coworkers, I've decided to look at:

home defense shotgun - Mossberg 590
CCW pistol - Walther P99 in 9mm or SIG P250 in 9mm, though perhaps something thinner
Rifle - FN FAL in 7.62 NATO or other 7.62 NATO rifle

Thanks in advance.

If you enjoyed reading about "Starting firearms recommendations." here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
zahc
January 3, 2006, 02:59 AM
Lastly, what is the opinion on pistols that have only a trigger safety (no manual safety), such as the Walther?

Simpler manual of arms, fully ambidextrous. Also have a worse trigger pull than is possible with single actions.


home defense shotgun

870 express combo (with slug barrel for HD)

CCW pistol
Very personal.

Rifle
?

antsi
January 3, 2006, 03:11 AM
the last firearm I shot was a .22LR bolt-action in Boy Scouts.

Others are going to say this, but I'll go first: don't leave a .22 or two off your list - ideally a .22 rifle and a .22 pistol. .22's are the ideal practice guns. People who shoot a lot of .22 tend to be good shooters.

9 out of 10 new gun owners will ignore this advice. The other one turns out to be the best shooter of the 10.

ingram
January 3, 2006, 03:23 AM
You should get a ruger 10/22. I bought one from walmart and it is a really great gun, cheap too. The best part about it are the plethora of accesories you can get for this gun, I have a custom stock and a scope so far and probably going to add some other cool looking but functionless things.

Clean97GTI
January 3, 2006, 03:25 AM
Hello all,

I live in Colorado, and am looking to start down the responsible firearms ownership trail. I tend to read a lot before I start down a path, so this has been a long time coming - the last firearm I shot was a .22LR bolt-action in Boy Scouts.

I will be looking into getting a CCW soon.

Good for you!!!

Firstly, where is the best place to start? I'd like to find an indoor range around me.
Many ranges offer courses, often with NRA instructors.
http://www.nrahq.org/education/training/basictraining.asp
See whats around you. Most major cities have several ranges and instructors to go with them.

Secondly, what are the best guidelines for shooting on open land in Colorado? What about private land with the permission of the owner?

Private land is usually just that...private, you do what you want within their rules. Beware of any safe discharge laws (can't fire within city limits, 1000 yards of a building or road, etc) Usually, your state regulations determine whether or not you can shoot on public land. I know some parks (national and state) forbid firearms. Easy way is check with a local ranger station. They are often shooters themselves and know the rules.

Lastly, what is the opinion on pistols that have only a trigger safety (no manual safety), such as the Walther? Learn the 4 Rules. Then, when you think you know them, study them again. If you avoid putting holes in your house (I speak from experience here :( ) you are ahead of the game.
Regarding ANY safety, you are only as safe as the safety between your ears allows you to be. My primary home defense weapon is DAO and has no safety. I'm not concerned because I know how to handle the weapon, I've practiced with it regularly and know my home's layout in the dark. The weapon isn't as important (other than reliability) as the training behind it.

I have been looking at firearms for the following roles:

home defense shotgun
CCW pistol
Rifle

Based on recommendations expressed here as well as that of my coworkers, I've decided to look at:

home defense shotgun - Mossberg 590
CCW pistol - Walther P99 in 9mm or SIG P250 in 9mm, though perhaps something thinner
Rifle - FN FAL in 7.62 NATO or other 7.62 NATO rifle

Thanks in advance.

Either the Mossberg or Remington 870 would be fine choices. I'd go for an 18" barrel simply for improved mobility in tighter spaces.

The Walther is the most comfortable weapon I've ever fired. PERIOD.
The Sig you mentioned doesn't exist. Your most comparable Sig (compared to the Walther) would be the Sig 229. You could get the Sig 239 which is a single stack and is thinner. You are giving up capacity though...something I consider to be unacceptable. Easiest thing to do is go to a range and rent a gun or two to test out. See what feels good.

There are a huge number of 7.62 NATO rifles out there...personal choice man. My first venture into full power rifles was a 7.62x54R Mosin-Nagant M44. SOOO much fun for so little money.

Stiletto Null
January 3, 2006, 12:57 PM
On rifles, a great way to get into that part of the gun world is to look into military surplus rifles—especially Yugoslavian surplus, since they were never in any major wars.

I'm seriously considering a Yugo SKS (http://www.aimsurplus.com/acatalog/Rifles.html), and I already have a Yugo M48 Mauser. I'll probably get another Mauser while I'm at it, and turn my current one into a project gun.

***

A .22LR rifle is a must-have considering that, if you find a gunshop with any speed of inventory turnover, semiautomatics and bolt-actions show up all the time under $200. .22LR pistols are also a good idea. Marksmanship and proper habits are best reinforced using low-recoil, non flinch-inducing guns.

***

Shotgun: Mossberg 500/590s and Remington 870s seem to be the popular ones. I prefer the Mossbergs.

Pistol: For carry, whatever works well and is comfortable. I'm an HK fan.

Rifle: If you're relatively new to guns in general, stick to intermediate calibers like 5.56x45mm (aka .223) and 7.62x39mm.

SKSes are an incredibly affordable way to get a combat-effective, reasonably accurate self-loader. On the 5.56mm side, I really like the Kel-Tec SU-16 line of rifles—you should be able to find them under $500 if you shop around. AR-15 type rifles (civvy M-16s, basically) start around $700 for good ones. On the bolt-action side, I love CZs (http://www.cz-usa.com).

Going toward full/high-power without scarce ammo, you're mostly looking at 7.62x54R and 7.92x57 (aka 8mm Mauser) military surplus rifles, all of which are inexpensive, and new-production .308 rifles. On the .308 side, if you want a semiautomatic, FALs (DSA's the main brand you'll hear about; avoid Hesse and Century for the most part) and Saigas seem to be the popular types; bolt-action options are manifold, again I really like CZs.

And I don't know enough about the miscellaneous hunting calibers to make any kind of recommendation.

The-Fly
January 3, 2006, 01:34 PM
what part of Colorado you in? I am in FTC myself.

jlbraun
January 3, 2006, 01:34 PM
I definitely like the idea of a scoped 10/22 for plinking and general gunmanship.

I wanted a 7.62 NATO because I desired a general purpose battle rifle. The FAL seemed to be both reliable and accurate as well as having common ammunition.

I'm going to go look around at ranges this week.

Thanks again!

WillBrayJr
January 3, 2006, 02:45 PM
Here are my recommendations in case you come back to this thread.

Handguns:
Springfield's XD series and Sigarms' Classic line.

22lr rifles:
Ruger's 10/22 autoloader and bolt guns. No real gun collection is without a good 22lr.

Shotguns:
Remington's 870s have stood the test of time.

Centerfire rifles:
I have to say Springfield's M1A over the Fal when it comes to battle rifles.

Utility gun:
Romanian AK-47. It's cheap, light weight, short and very dependable.

If you don't have much experiance with firearms, please find someone who does to teach you the fundamentals.

Stiletto Null
January 3, 2006, 02:45 PM
Well, look at a Saiga too (they come in 7.62x51, 7.62x39, and 5.56x45), they're ALOT cheaper for someone just getting into shooting.

You really should worry about getting a good marksmanship practice piece before getting a main battle rifle.

Drysdale
January 3, 2006, 03:05 PM
On rifles, a great way to get into that part of the gun world is to look into military surplus rifles—especially Yugoslavian surplus, since they were never in any major wars.

I'm seriously considering a Yugo SKS (http://www.aimsurplus.com/acatalog/Rifles.html), and I already have a Yugo M48 Mauser. I'll probably get another Mauser while I'm at it, and turn my current one into a project gun.


Be aware: If you live in Denver, an SKS is a no-no! I believe it's ok just about anywhere else in the state though...

11. Sec. 38-130, Assault Weapons

Prohibits the ownership, carrying, storage, display, sale of certain specified assault guns and their "knock-offs" except a very short-list of persons who grandfathered their guns in before the ordinance took effect.

Prohibits the possession of a magazine which holds 21 or more rounds
http://www.denvergov.org/Gun_Information/template2739.asp

While we ALL know the SKS isn't an asssaut rifle, try explaining that to the numbskulls in office; :banghead:

Stiletto Null
January 3, 2006, 03:11 PM
SKS is a ten-rounder. I'm confused.

jlbraun
January 3, 2006, 03:22 PM
I have a marginal amount of experience, but am going to defer to one of the men I work with to teach me about rifle marksmanship and handling.

The way I tend to go about things is to read a lot, then once I make my decision I jump in with both feet.

BothellBob
January 3, 2006, 03:58 PM
Please excuse the repetition, but since you have stated your intention to acquire multiple firearms, it can not be stressed enough: The 22 rifle is the heart of any collection. It is the basic and best place to start. A bolt action has much to recommend itself, especially if you have children to introduce to the safe and accurate handling of firearms. The Ruger 10/22 is a very good semi-automatic alternative (but better, an addition) to the bolt action.
If you are going to learn to use a pistol with something approaching accuracy, you will need a 22.
Anything else you acquire (and your list of the basic three "work" guns is well considered) should not get the use, and is unlikely to be as cherished or enjoyed, as the "lowly" 22.
-BothellBob (Who only had six 22 rifles, but I gave one to my daughter, and one to my son, and will soon give one to my nephew, one to my niece; and then I'll have a good excuse to buy a couple more.)

jlbraun
January 3, 2006, 04:24 PM
I must clarify. My intention of listing the three guns I did was not "I am going to go out and buy these right now" - rather, it was "I would like to eventually own firearms like these, where should I start?"

Apparently, everyone read my mind. :)

Jubei
January 3, 2006, 05:44 PM
Secondly, what are the best guidelines for shooting on open land in Colorado? What about private land with the permission of the owner?

I'm not sure what part of Colorado you live in, but I used to live in Colorado Springs some years ago, and we used to go up into the mountains along Gold Creek Road and do our shooting. As long as you were shooting safely and not being disrespectful (slobs) the law didn't have a problem.

But that was a while ago, things may be different now.

Jubei

Mad Bodhi
January 3, 2006, 08:53 PM
My personal choices are Sig P220ST,Pre 1975 8 shot Ithaca 37,and the M14/M1a.But this is after many years of trying a whole lot of stuff out and these choices are expensive or hard to find and probably not the best choice for an up and comer. Best bet for you is to pick up a police trade in Sig from CDNN,many are minty and a hell of a good buy.Pass on the shotgun for now and get an M1a if you can swing that kind of money or get an M1 Garand from the CMP (not hard to meet requirements it just seems that way).

BozemanMT
January 3, 2006, 10:11 PM
Yeah, we need to know where in Colorado.

pistol: Glock, unkillable, simple manual of arms, lots of them around, never break, etc. There are many others that are cooler or better or lesser, but the glock will get you hooked. I'd go 9mm just because ammo is cheap. And practice is the key.
a 22LR semi-auto pistol: I like the buckmark myself, but the Ruger 22LR pistols sell a ton, the Sig mosquito is ok, lots of options here, cheap too.

Shotgun
Remington 870 12ga, the do it all shotgun, everywhere, affordable and in any combination you wish (tactical to duck hunting).

rifle:
so many options in rifles, probalby need to narrow it down some, but every collection should have
bolt action .22LR (CZ452), iron sights
semi-auto 22LR (Ruger 10/22, Thompson Classic, etc), iron sights
an AR-15 of some type. Just because, the do it all .223, accurate to CQB.
a bolt action hunting rifle with a scope. (just about anything, maybe .270 or a .308)
a Main Battle Rifle (MBR), many examples, a Garand, a M1A, a FAL, an AR10, whichever
I'd probably get them in that order too.

You need a revolver somewhere, and probably a break action (Over/Under or Side X Side) shotgun for the clay guns (not that you need one, it just looks cool)

That's a pretty good collection to start. Beginning to see teh pattern, lots of shooting with 22LR and then practice with the big guys. Shooting is shooting, it all builds muscle memory, sight picture, etc. 22LR is 10 bucks per 500 rounds. 9mm, which is the next cheapest is 50 to 60 dollars a 500.
That's a big difference.
HTH

jlbraun
January 3, 2006, 10:32 PM
I'm in Fort Collins. Turns out The-Fly and I are near each other. Small world.

GoBrush
January 3, 2006, 10:41 PM
As far as CCW goes smaller is better as long as it is atleast a 9mm

I would also look at Sig 239 it is a single stack magazine which is easier to conceal and it comes in 9mm as well as 40S&W. Buy the way I own both the 40 for me and the 9 for my wife and love both of them Sig does put out a good product.

Another gun I think you need to look at is the Kahr PM9.

Bottom line is if your gun is to big or to heavy you will not carry it and the 1st rule of a gun fight is to take a gun.

Take care and be safe

;)

BozemanMT
January 3, 2006, 10:44 PM
Pawnee National Grasslands for public shooting.
Pawnee Sportsmen center for shotgun/rifle/(and i think) pistol for open to the public range for a fee.
Weld County Range for a private range. (rifle/shotgun/pistol)
I'll PM you the name of a GREAT CCW instructor in Ft Collins.

If you enjoyed reading about "Starting firearms recommendations." here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!