Excited about the H&K P2000 Subcompact?


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Optical Serenity
January 4, 2006, 08:49 PM
I can't wait for this thing to come out...I'm so stoked...

http://www.hkpro.com/p2ksub-hand.jpg

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BlkHawk73
January 4, 2006, 08:58 PM
Umm... That would be the P2000SK model and it came out last year. It's been readily available in 9mm and .40 S&W and recently become available in .357 Sig. Was tobe my first handgun of '06 but another P7 tempted me too much.

lunde
January 5, 2006, 12:56 AM
Yeah, I can't wait to walk over to my safe, take one of mine out, and fondle it... ;)

http://www.praxagora.com/lunde/photos/p2000sk-v3-left-full.jpg

http://www.praxagora.com/lunde/photos/p2000sk-v3-right-full.jpg

http://www.praxagora.com/lunde/photos/p2000sk-v3-left.jpg

http://www.praxagora.com/lunde/photos/p2000sk-v3-right.jpg

http://www.praxagora.com/lunde/photos/p2000sk-v3-right-flat.jpg

lunde
January 5, 2006, 12:57 AM
That was my V3. Here's my V2:

http://www.praxagora.com/lunde/photos/p2000sk-left-full.jpg

http://www.praxagora.com/lunde/photos/p2000sk-right-flat.jpg

Caseless
January 6, 2006, 01:38 AM
With a 2.5" barrel, muzzle flash must be impressive at night.:)

TC-TX
January 6, 2006, 01:48 AM
Not even Slightly! ;)

lunde
January 6, 2006, 01:57 AM
The barrel length is more like 3.25 inches.

MyRoad
January 6, 2006, 03:12 AM
The barrel length is more like 3.25 inches.

HK website (http://www.hk-usa.com/index.jsp?loc=101&SITEID=A&PartNumber=704204) says 2.48"

I've been comparing the SK LEM to the G26...

------ Cap --- L --- W --- H --- S.R. --- B-L --- Wt.
SK -- 10 - 6.42 - 1.28 - 4.61 - 5.20 - 2.48 - 1.30lb

G26 - 10 - 6.29 - 1.18 - 4.17 - 5.67 - 3.46 - 26.1oz

(sorry, not sure how to make that line up)

...and the G26 appears to be smaller in every dimension, except it has a longer sight radius and longer barrel. If the numbers I'm getting from the websites are correct.

http://www.hk-usa.com/index.jsp?loc=101&SITEID=A&PartNumber=704204

http://www.teamglock.com/Glock-Buyers-Guide/Glock-26.htm

Optical Serenity
January 6, 2006, 05:46 AM
Well, ok, I'm happy that its out! Sorry I'm a bozo...

How much did you guys pay?

lunde
January 6, 2006, 11:20 AM
The HK web site is incorrect. I suggested they fix it, but for some reason they don't. Try HK's real web site, the one in Germany: http://www.heckler-kochjs.de/

They list the barrel length as 83mm. That's 3.27 inches.

Also, grab one, and measure its barrel.

cookekdjr
January 6, 2006, 11:27 AM
I was VERY excited about it.

Then I read the price tag. :eek:

So, how 'bout those CZ's? ;)
-David

Newton
January 6, 2006, 12:14 PM
I'll bet it's a real handful in .357SiG :eek:

MyRoad
January 6, 2006, 12:44 PM
I noticed in the ads in a recent mag I got, they are showing the SK with the flat baseplates. I held one a while back and bought the non-SK P2000 instead, because the protrusion on the baseplate messed with my grip -- it just didn't fit me. Now that I know there are options, I might reconsider it, but I think I'd prefer to go 9mm since it would be a 'two finger' grip for me, pinky hanging off.

The HK web site is incorrect.

Ken, do you know if the other measurements on the HK site are accurate?

I was VERY excited about it.

Then I read the price tag. :eek:

Another reason I'm comparing it to a G26.

BlkHawk73
January 6, 2006, 08:40 PM
I was VERY excited about it.

Then I read the price tag. :eek:

So, how 'bout those CZ's? ;)
-David


You get what you pay for. If you want a Ferrari, you ain't gonna get one for the price of a Subaru.

Erich
January 6, 2006, 08:44 PM
Cute, but sort of chunky for CCW at 1.34" across . . . . Anyone want to show a photo from above to give us an idea of where the thickness is? Maybe next to a ruler?

Sox
January 6, 2006, 10:12 PM
The thickness is its maximal thickness measured across the ambidextrous slide stop levers. If I recall the grip is only 29mm wide as is the slide and the slide tapers to a narrow 26mm at the top. It is pretty compact.

Erich
January 6, 2006, 10:21 PM
Just over an inch is good on the slide, but the frame worries me. Would the new "Compact" version be thinner? (Serious question: I have no idea and they sound neat.)

Shoot, I should just go hold one. H&K tends to make large-ish guns for the calibers (albeit wonderful, large-ish guns), but perhaps that's changed.

hartzpad
January 6, 2006, 10:29 PM
I love the looks of these HK's but when comparing stats, it seems that a Glock 26 would be better, smaller, cheaper and has much more mags and accessories available . Do they make a DA/SA version with a manual safety for cocked and locked carry instead of just a decocker version (don't know my HK variant numbers)?

CDNN has these for $670 IIRC, not a bad price.

I guess I'd like to see a comparison of the HK P2000SK 9mm, Glock 26, CZ RAMI 9mm and Steyr S9.

BlkHawk73
January 6, 2006, 11:43 PM
I love the looks of these HK's but when comparing stats, it seems that a Glock 26 would be better, smaller, cheaper and has much more mags and accessories available. Do they make a DA/SA version with a manual safety for cocked and locked carry instead of just a decocker version (don't know my HK variant numbers)?

Hmmm...what about the stats that you saw makes it worse than the G26 and makes you think there's less stuff available for it? It's designed as a CCW handgun, how many add on accessories does it need? You also state the G26 would be smaller according to the stats you compared. Now if the G26 is smaller and this is a favorable stat, why would more accessories for the G26 be good? :scrutiny: After all, adding accessories would make it larger. :p

If you did indeed check stats, they obvious weren't too complete if they didn't list action types. FYI, SA/DA is Variant 3 but no P2000sk models are available with a manual safety lever.

The P2000 SK uses the trigger system introduced in 2001 on the USP Compact “LEM” (Law Enforcement Modification) model. This unique pre-cocked hammer system combines the advantages of a cocked striker component (constant level of trigger pull and short trigger travel from first to last round fired) with a double action hammer system. The LEM trigger pull has been reduced to 7.5 to 8.5 pounds of pressure (32.5 Newtons), compared to 9.5 to 11.5 pounds found on many conventional double action pistols.

Using such an enhanced trigger system consolidates ease of use and safety into a convenient, innovative trigger operation—one that prevents unintended firing. And in case of an ammunition-related failure to fire, all that is needed is an additional second or third pull of the trigger without the need of first pulling the slide back to re-cock the Subcompact.

The enhanced LEM trigger system combines the reliability of a double-action revolver trigger with the crisp, precise trigger of a single-action pistol. For shooters that prefer a conventional double-action/single-action pistol, a special DA/SA variant is planned with a decock button mounted on the rear of the frame. A choice of two simple-to-install grip panels make it easy to custom-fit the P2000 Subcompact to any shooter’s hand. And the same ambidextrous magazine release and dual slide release levers found on the P2000 make handling the Subcompact easy for both right- and left-handed shooters.

A set of abbreviated “industry standard” mounting rails on the P2000 US SK, enable lights, aimers, and other accessories to be added by sliding them onto the open rail system. The HK P2000 SK also can use widely available, reliable USP Compact magazines.

• Industry-standard mounting rails for installing accessories
• Ambidextrous slide release (located on both sides of the frame)
• Ideal size for concealed carry
• Optional magazine disconnect
• Ambidextrous magazine release lever
• Corrosion proof fiber-reinforced polymer frame
• Polygonal bore profile for increased velocity, easier cleaning, and longer barrel life
• Low profile slide and slimline, compactdimensions
• Very short trigger reset distance to enhance the speed of multiple or follow-up shots
• Replaceable grip panels for custom fit
• Polymer recoil absorber bushing aids in recoil reduction
• Corrosion resistant “Hostile Environment” Nitro Carburized finish
• Oversized tapered trigger guard for use with gloves
• Patented Lock-Out Safety device
• Limited lifetime warranty for civilian sales


HK P2000sk (http://www.heckler-koch.de/core.php?dat=Y29tcG9uZW50PWFydGljbGVzJmFjdGlvbj1zaG93JnhJRD1wYXJhZ3JhcGhCeUlEQW5kUGFyZW50SUQmYXJ0aWNsZUlEPTIxMyZwcGFyZW50SUQ9MzY0JmNhdElEPTEzMDQmbGFuZ0lEPTUmcGFyZW50SUQ9NzI0Jm5hdmlnYXRpb25JRD03MjUmdXNlRmxhc2g9MQ==)

gudel
January 7, 2006, 12:10 AM
I guess I'd like to see a comparison of the HK P2000SK 9mm, Glock 26, CZ RAMI 9mm and Steyr S9.

The only reasonable comparison would be to hold one each in your hand.

Erich
January 7, 2006, 11:20 AM
Blkhawk, I can think of one accessory for the G26 (which I own) that does not seem to be readily available for the HK2000SK (which sounds interesting to me): a 33-rnd mag. :D

lunde
January 7, 2006, 11:40 AM
The grip of the HK P2000 (and P2000 SK) is comparable to that of the HK P7M8. The only thing that protrudes on the frame is the ambidextrous slide stop lever. The bottom of the slide is barely wider than the frame, a millimeter or two at the most. These pistols are thin. I have a pair of USP Compacts, 357 and 45, and like the P2000 much more.

Erich
January 7, 2006, 01:37 PM
Wow, lunde, thanks for a great answer.

Of course, you're not helping me with trying not to want one of these! :) I'll have to go check one out.

BlkHawk73
January 7, 2006, 05:25 PM
Blkhawk, I can think of one accessory for the G26 (which I own) that does not seem to be readily available for the HK2000SK (which sounds interesting to me): a 33-rnd mag. :D


Well ok, ya got me there but hmmm... in a CCW pistol, those really long mags aren't exactly all that easily concealable. For a range only gun, maybe; still, I wouldn't want to get used to my carry gun in any manner other than how it would be carried. For me, those super cap mags don't impress. Just makes the spray and pray last a second or two longer.
looked at a P2kSK again today and yup, it will very likely be my next auto. proberly in march or so. Would've even gotten it today but had to grab the LNIB P7 while I could, especially for under $800. :)

MyRoad
January 7, 2006, 06:46 PM
You get what you pay for. If you want a Ferrari, you ain't gonna get one for the price of a Subaru.
I'm not sure this applies - or if you intended it to - for a comparison between a Glock G26 and HK P2000SK.
I think that in your analogy, I'd have to say a carry gun is something similar to a commuter car - something to go back and forth to work and sit in traffic in. A carry gun needs to be accurate, reliable, durable, and concealable. On those criteria in my humble opinion the Glock and the HK are equivalent.

I'm trying to figure out what the extra $250 buys me in the SK. It appears that I would have to like/need/want one of the trigger variants, or like the grip/pointability of the SK in my hand a lot more than the 26, because I don't see much else that it offers that justifies costing 50% more.

I'm certainly not intending to knock the HK. I have an HK USPc45-LEM on the way, and it sure would be nice to have carry guns in two sizes with the same trigger... so that's why I'm taking a close look at the SK-LEM. I guess I'll have to live with the USPc for a while, because if it became my #1 carry, that might be reason enough to pay the extra $$ for the SK.

Erich
January 7, 2006, 09:54 PM
Well, while I think the Ferrari comment was a bit overstated (I have a civil-practice friend with a Ferrari . . . it's far too beautiful to be compared to an HK. Too temperamental, too), I sort of agree with Blkhawk73 on this. A Glock (bear in mind that I have and frequently carry a G26, and that I've owned Glocks of various sorts since the late '80s) is never going to have an HK's precise trigger or astonishingly tight barrel lockup.

There's not a thing wrong with a Glock. And, in most folks' hands, an HK isn't going to perform any better than a Glock will. But I believe that an HK will shoot a bit better for the more dedicated marksman than will a Glock. (Is that small percentage of improvement worth the cost? Only the buyer can say.) Furthermore, some folks (myself, for example) prefer the croquet-mallet whack of an external hammer to the pool-cut snick of an internal striker (ask me about my G33's light primer strikes when sealant crud blew back into the striker channel - the striker channel that Glock doesn't think needs to be cleaned). And then there's the trigger pull issue - some folks are happier with the TDA trigger, and the LEM trigger at least gives you a second-strike capability.

You're right, the differences may not justify the price differential to you, but they do to some folks. I've gotten to where I'm willing to spend more money for a superb trigger, but only if the other pieces of the package work for me. I suppose I'm pretty interested in the P2000SK, but I'll keep investigating before I drop $ on it.

BlkHawk, you're right insofar as I rarely find myself carrying 33-rnd mags in reserve for my G26 (I have though! :) ). They are mighty handy when I'm taking the gun on a trip, though - I just throw a couple of them in a mag carrier to back up the 17-rnders I generally carry in reserve, and I feel more prepared for being trapped away from home in a disaster. (I probably wouldn't take the more-expen$ive HK on a trip anyway, given how little airlines will pay for the luggage they lose. :o )

MyRoad
January 7, 2006, 10:20 PM
But I believe that an HK will shoot a bit better for the more dedicated marksman than will a Glock.
If we were comparing a G21 to a USP Expert, I would say this would be absolutely relevant. In guns with 3"+/- barrels that are most likely going to be "used" within a 7 yard radius, I don't think its as relevant.
And then there's the trigger pull issue - some folks are happier with the TDA trigger, and the LEM trigger at least gives you a second-strike capability. .
This is a valid feature difference.
I've gotten to where I'm willing to spend more money for a superb trigger, but only if the other pieces of the package work for me.
I agree with you on that, to a degree. In a target pistol, or one that I had purely for the pleasure of shooting it, I would pay for the better trigger experience. But in a carry gun, I would only pay for one trigger over another if the more expensive trigger enabled me to shoot more accurately or more quickly. For CCW, for me it's purely about function.

Erich
January 8, 2006, 12:35 AM
In guns with 3"+/- barrels that are most likely going to be "used" within a 7 yard radius, I don't think its as relevant.


Well, that's a valid perspective; makes a lot of sense. I suppose it all comes down to personal preference, ultimately.

Since assured stopping with a handgun requires absolute precise shot placement (gotta penetrate to and damage the heart, brain, upper spine, and that takes precision or luck - and no one should count on luck), I can see a role for super-accuracy at close ranges. In fact, I think it's actually pretty important. It's why I put a 3.5# connector into my G26, and it's why I'm so happy carrying my S&W 37-2 DAO with its superb trigger. You're not trying to hit a man at short ranges, you're trying to hit a tiny area on a (probably moving) man.

hartzpad
January 8, 2006, 12:24 PM
Hmmm...what about the stats that you saw makes it worse than the G26 and makes you think there's less stuff available for it? It's designed as a CCW handgun, how many add on accessories does it need? You also state the G26 would be smaller according to the stats you compared. Now if the G26 is smaller and this is a favorable stat, why would more accessories for the G26 be good? :scrutiny: After all, adding accessories would make it larger. :p


Wow, you obviously read too deeply into my post and almost put words in my mouth. By "accessories and mags" I am referring to magazines, holsters, night sights, upgraded triggers, etc. I was not referring to the "add on" accessories that you were thinking about. HK parts and mags have notoriously been hard to find (at least the hi-caps have been) and definitely way overpriced.

The size specs that were posted in this thread make me think that the G26 is a better overall pistol for CCW because it is smaller, cheaper, much easier to get mags/parts for and it can be had used for much less than 1/2 the price of the P2000SK. Now, until I have actually fondled or shot a P2000SK, I can't make any real decision except that it is likely overpriced when compared to its competitors on the market.

Now, I'm not a huge Glock fan, but it is hard to beat the size, performance and aftermarket of the Glock 26. I also wish that the P2000SK came with manual safety for cocked and locked, but I'd probably just get the decocker version (I guess that is variant 2? Damn, why does HK have 10 different variants to remember?)

Erich
January 8, 2006, 07:35 PM
It's Variant 3 on the P2000sk (and, I agree :rolleyes: ).

Too bad that both the Glock and the HK are so thick. I CCW the G26, but it's tough in a pocket. A big bulgy in a SmartCarry, too.

Erich
January 10, 2006, 05:25 PM
Well, phooey. :( I tried the trigger on one. As well as the triggers on about 8 different USP compacts in .40 and .45.

Frankly, I'm astonished. With the understandable exception of a VP-70z I once owned, I've never seen such rotten triggers on H&Ks. Mushy, creepy, spongy. A couple had decent SA pulls, but the DA pulls were uniformly abysmal. Frankly, my Glock 26 (with the 3.5# connector and the $.25 trigger job) was better than some, and not worse than any of them - despite being the usual spongy, sproing-y Glock trigger.

These HKs sure were not like my friend's Tactical.

Anyway, this was one case where actually handling the gun completely turned me off. I guess if you want a good factory trigger pull in a currently produced DA semiauto, you're looking at SigSauer or maybe one of the 3rd Gen S&Ws.

Erik
January 10, 2006, 09:04 PM
HK addressed many of the complaints about the USP line when it designed the P2000 line. I believe they did a fair job.

But, in taking on the industry leader they decided to commit to the P200SK, which for some reason doesn't seem to do much for me, despite me liking the P2000. I think it has to do with the relatively high bore axis and thickness on a sub-compact pistol. (The price points will limit their competitiveness, by the way, imo.)

These aren't pocket pistols, and for the most if you are concealing an P2000SK you may as well be concealing the more practical P2000.

But that's just me.

mattdavis0210
June 18, 2008, 11:50 PM
i own the h&k p2000sk and the barrel is 3.25in.i measured it myself.

jlh26oo
June 19, 2008, 12:12 AM
And return to the year 2006!

:neener:

Modgod
July 11, 2008, 10:00 PM
3.26" is the P200SK barrel length to be exact, LOL. Check HK's German site specs:

http://www.heckler-koch.de/HKWebText/detailPara/1925/125/4/21/233

:uhoh:

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