.45 long colt rifle and pistol


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palerider1
January 4, 2006, 10:12 PM
I have been looking at the 3rd generation colt .45 saa , and the Navy arms 1873 colt .45 rifle. i would love to own both, but im probably looking at about $2300 for both of them. Anyone have any comments on the colt SAA .45 , or the Navy arms .45 rifle? i have seen the taurus gaucho write ups but i like to own the original as long as it is still made. just me i guess. also can i use the same ammo in both? i believe i can but am not totally sure. Would love to have a nice cowboy rifle and pistol.

thanks for all responses!!!!!

Palerider1

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VirgilCaine
January 4, 2006, 10:27 PM
If they are both .45 Long Colt, you can use the same ammunition in both a handgun and rifle.

stoky
January 4, 2006, 10:37 PM
I have one of the Navy Arms (Rossi) "Texas Specials", with the short heavy barrel. The action was pretty rough when I bought it. I bubba smithed it by taking it apart and polishing the rough spots in the action and installed a spring kit. I put a Marbles tang sight on it. It is a well balanced, quick handling, very accurate little carbine and it is alot of fun. :D
Their new pump Lightning repro might be worth checking out.

stoky
January 4, 2006, 11:17 PM
BTW the Navy Arms 1873 is actually a reproduction of the 1873 Winchester, firing the .45 Colt (Long Colt) cartridge. The original 1873 was never chambered in the .45 Colt, it was .44-40 (aka.44 WCF), .38 WCF (.38-40), and .32 WCF (.32-20).

Jim K
January 4, 2006, 11:28 PM
Neither the Winchester nor the Marlin lever guns were made for the .45 Colt for one simple reason - the rim is too small for reliable functioning. Unfortunately, things have not changed. If one wants a single cartridge setup, .44-40 is the better choice.

Jim

Detritus
January 5, 2006, 12:45 AM
Neither the Winchester nor the Marlin lever guns were made for the .45 Colt for one simple reason - the rim is too small for reliable functioning. Unfortunately, things have not changed.
Jim

actually they HAVE, originally the .45 Colt used copper cased ammo with folded rims (and Benet priming on the army issue cartridges) these cases naturally had no extractor groove, this continued through the era of "balloon head" cases.
but nowadays most .45colt cases HAVE an extracor groove (don't think i've seen a box yet that didn't) granted compared to some it's small but it is there, and they are much more reliable in lever guns. from the day I bought it i never had a single failure to extract with my marlin.

Lone_Gunman
January 5, 2006, 01:12 AM
The mechanics of whether or not 45 colt is an appropriate choice for a lever gun are unimportant compared to the fact that there never was a 45 Colt lever gun in the Old West. The 45 Colt lever gun is an abomination sold to people who want a gun that is kind of Old West-like, but don't know enough to make a historically correct choice. If historical correctness is unimportant, then I guess it is OK, though.

I would recommend going with 44-40 in both the SAA and lever gun.

As for the Navy Arms 1873, it is manufactured by Uberti I believe. I have Uberti 1873's in both 32-20 and 44-40, and both are fine rifles. You will be very happy with them.

I have a couple of Colt SAAs also, and they are fine revolvers. However, the Uberti replicas are almost as nicely finished, and I think generally have better triggers than new Colts. You might want to look at them also, it will save you about $600 if you go with Uberti. Of course, you won't get a prancing pony on the side of your revolver, and that will make a huge difference in resale value.

palerider1
January 5, 2006, 01:25 AM
The mechanics of whether or not 45 colt is an appropriate choice for a lever gun are unimportant compared to the fact that there never was a 45 Colt lever gun in the Old West. The 45 Colt lever gun is an abomination sold to people who want a gun that is kind of Old West-like, but don't know enough to make a historically correct choice. If historical correctness is unimportant, then I guess it is OK, though.

I would recommend going with 44-40 in both the SAA and lever gun.

As for the Navy Arms 1873, it is manufactured by Uberti I believe. I have Uberti 1873's in both 32-20 and 44-40, and both are fine rifles. You will be very happy with them.

I have a couple of Colt SAAs also, and they are fine revolvers. However, the Uberti replicas are almost as nicely finished, and I think generally have better triggers than new Colts. You might want to look at them also, it will save you about $600 if you go with Uberti. Of course, you won't get a prancing pony on the side of your revolver, and that will make a huge difference in resale value.

thanks lone gunman for the info,,,,thats why i asked the question. i appreciate your input. so i think i'll go with the 44-40 round. i like to be historically correct when looking to make my purchases based on history. if i may be so stupid to ask, since im never afraid to ask what i dont know, and to always share what i do know, what is the difference between the .45 colt and the 44-40?

thanks so much!!!!!!

palerider1

Lone_Gunman
January 5, 2006, 01:32 AM
what is the difference between the .45 colt and the 44-40?


Not a whole lot from a cowboy action shooting standpoint.

The 44-40 cartridge is slightly bottle necked. The bullet weights are very similar, as are velocities. If you are just plinking, it wont make a practical difference, and really wont be able to tell a difference between them.

palerider1
January 5, 2006, 01:42 AM
thanks Lone Gunman for your good advice..........i appreciate it!!!! i really like history and thought it would be nice to have a rifle and SAA chambered the same....now i have to buy 3 guns. a 44-40 rifle, a 44-40 SAA, and a .45 colt SAA.....lol guess it wont be a bad investment huh?

thanks :)

palerider1

Sheldon J
January 5, 2006, 02:30 AM
Stronger, more reliable. The Colt SAA's tend to loosen up the Cyl pin screws, and to break trigger / bolt springs, the kid has gone through 2 on his, but the Ruger just keeps shooting with no issues.:D

jtward01
January 5, 2006, 02:43 AM
Last I recall, CDNN had some Winchester 1873 models for sale, left overs from a special production run Winchester did a few years ago.

palerider1
January 5, 2006, 03:02 AM
thanks Sheldon for your response,,,i'll be sure to look at the Ruger...

palerider1

jtward01
January 5, 2006, 03:04 AM
thanks Lone Gunman for your good advice..........i appreciate it!!!! i really like history and thought it would be nice to have a rifle and SAA chambered the same....now i have to buy 3 guns. a 44-40 rifle, a 44-40 SAA, and a .45 colt SAA.....lol guess it wont be a bad investment huh?

thanks :)

palerider1

Just remember, if you're being historically correct you need to shoot .45 S&W ammo in that Colt if you want to use the same ammo the US Army used. The government only used .45 Colt ammo early on after they adopted the SAA. By August, 1874, the Army had stopped using the Colt cartridge. Because some units had been equipped with S&W revolvers the Army, for logistical reasons, settled on the shorter S&W cartridge which would fit in both S&W and Colt revolvers. The longer Colt cartridge would not fit in the S&W chamber.

Also, Colt Model P revolvers chambered in .44-40 were typically marked Frontier Six-Shooter, and not Single Action Army. The government revolvers also did not have the pony stamped on the frame, instead usually having the letters US stamped in its place.

If you're really into history take a look at the US Firearms "Cavalry Colt" that they're selling now. It's a virtually identical replica of the Single Action Army with an antique, "well used" finish. The Jan/Feb issue of American Handgunner has a nice write-up on it, as well as another article on other firearms used by the cavalry during the time of the Indian Wars.

Tom C.
January 5, 2006, 08:59 AM
If you are planning to use these guns in cowboy competition, you should plan to reload. Reloading the .44-40 can be a bear due to the thin, tapered cases that tend to collapse in sizing. Reloading the .45 Colt or .45 Schofield is easy in comparison. Carbide dies are available for the .45, not for the tapered .44-40.
I use Rugers in competition. They never fail. The Colt design, whether original or clone, are more fragile.

Camp David
January 5, 2006, 10:08 AM
I have been looking at the 3rd generation colt .45 saa , and the Navy arms 1873 colt .45 rifle. i would love to own both...

I can't speak to the Navy 1873 rifle as I have never shot it, but I have shot several other lever rifles chambered for .45 Colt and I have a Winchester Trapper Model in .45 LC, which I carry with my .45 Colt Peacemaker so as to use the same ammunition for both. I use this setup during deer season in Northern Vermont, where I hunt in heavy cedars in thick brush... .45 round in such conifer is perfect as it is largely unaffected and I have shot bucks at close range with Trapper model rifle and with Colt revolver.

My only concern with Navy Arms rifle would be quality; it should be ok...

TallPine
January 5, 2006, 11:32 AM
what is the difference between the .45 colt and the 44-40?

44-40 ammo is harder to find and more expensive usually :(

ball3006
January 5, 2006, 12:14 PM
it is a Volquero with a frame more the size of a Colt than a Blackhawk. I have a Rossi 92 Winchester clone in 45 Colt that functions perfectly and is accurate. I did have to stone some of the rough edges off the action. This rifle was built after cowboy action took off and they were building them faster. I have a 357/38 Rossi that is an older rifle that has excellent workmanship and finish. Cowboy action is a fun sport but the "win at all costs" crowd drove me away.......I have seen the two guns you are looking at and can only dream.......chris3

kjeff50cal
January 5, 2006, 12:14 PM
About the Ruger Blackhawk......
Stronger, more reliable. The Colt SAA's tend to loosen up the Cyl pin screws, and to break trigger / bolt springs, the kid has gone through 2 on his, but the Ruger just keeps shooting with no issues.:D

I'd say look at the Ruger New Model Vaquero. It has more of the look, feel and weight of a Colt then the Blackhawk.

kjeff50cal

Thefabulousfink
January 5, 2006, 12:34 PM
From what I've been able to tell, Ruger firearms (blackhawks & Vaqueros) are very different internally than the traditional SAA. Most new Rugers do not have a half-cock, the cylinder is freed by opening the loading gate, and they have a transfer-bar safety. These are nice safety features, but if what you want is authenticity there are other combanies that make exact SAA clones (Taylor Co. on the low $ and US Firearms and Colt on the high $).

While SAA's don't have all the fancy safety features of Ruger and Baretta, you can be safe with them (people have been for over a century). Just follow some common sense rules; keep and empty chamber under the firing pin until ready to fire, don't try spinning tricks with a loaded gun, etc.

Lone_Gunman
January 5, 2006, 12:42 PM
The additional strength of the Ruger is unnecessary if you are going to be shooting nothing but cowboy loads.

Rugers are ok, but again I would say if Old West authenticity is what you are after, the SAA or its clones are closer.

Hawkmoon
January 5, 2006, 01:23 PM
Stronger, more reliable. The Colt SAA's tend to loosen up the Cyl pin screws, and to break trigger / bolt springs, the kid has gone through 2 on his, but the Ruger just keeps shooting with no issues.:D
To appear "cowboy" one would actually have to buy a Ruger Vaquero, not a Blackhawk, because the Blackhawks have adjustable, target sights. But a Ruger won't have a historically-accurate firing pin, it'll have a transfer bar.

And unless you get the NEW Vaquero, the Ruger will also be larger and heavier than a Colt SAA.

Sheldon J
January 5, 2006, 01:45 PM
But if that is his intent then you are 100% I'm betting the Ruger Vaquero is built similar to the Blackhawk in cyl lock up. Now for the bad news if you are really going to shoot authentic cowboy then you must (and many do) use :uhoh: black powder :what: can you say corrosive.:eek:

kentucky_smith
January 5, 2006, 02:03 PM
I would think that since these are new production guns using new production techniques, the availability of .45 Colt would far outweight the "historical correctness" of using rare and disadvantaged .44-40

Thefabulousfink
January 5, 2006, 02:11 PM
thats true if all you wanted it for was plinking or a set to carry into the backcountry, but the original poster has said he wants historicly accurate guns. That rules out the .45 colt as a rifle calibre.

Lone_Gunman
January 5, 2006, 03:19 PM
How is 44-40 rare and disadvantaged?

I have never had trouble finding it at gun shows, or online, or in decent gun stores.

Hawkmoon
January 5, 2006, 06:46 PM
thats true if all you wanted it for was plinking or a set to carry into the backcountry, but the original poster has said he wants historicly accurate guns. That rules out the .45 colt as a rifle calibre.
It also rules out Rugers, and any other clones using a transfer bar rather than a hammer-mounted firing pin.

mustanger98
January 5, 2006, 09:41 PM
Neither the Winchester nor the Marlin lever guns were made for the .45 Colt for one simple reason - the rim is too small for reliable functioning. Unfortunately, things have not changed. If one wants a single cartridge setup, .44-40 is the better choice.

While this may be true in some recent instances, it isn't consistent with my experience. My experience dealing with the Marlin 1894 Cowboy rifle and Winchester '94AE Trapper carbine, both in .45Colt, is they are both quite reliable with no failures to feed, fire, or eject. While Mike Venturino favors .44-40 as an authentic round in Peacemaker and '73, there are also cited instances of the .44-40 being aggravating to handload do to the thinner walls of the tapered cases.

FWIW, I like the rifle/carbine w/sixgun combo in one caliber and like mine in .45Colt. I also would personally rather have such a combo in .44magnum or .357magnum over the .44-40 because I know what I'm doing handloading for them. I'll also say if somebody likes .44-40 they should go for it and enjoy it as it is one of the old survivors.

mustanger98
January 5, 2006, 09:56 PM
The mechanics of whether or not 45 colt is an appropriate choice for a lever gun are unimportant compared to the fact that there never was a 45 Colt lever gun in the Old West. The 45 Colt lever gun is an abomination sold to people who want a gun that is kind of Old West-like, but don't know enough to make a historically correct choice. If historical correctness is unimportant, then I guess it is OK, though.

I have a couple of Colt SAAs also, and they are fine revolvers. However, the Uberti replicas are almost as nicely finished, and I think generally have better triggers than new Colts. You might want to look at them also, it will save you about $600 if you go with Uberti. Of course, you won't get a prancing pony on the side of your revolver, and that will make a huge difference in resale value.

When I bought my Winchester carbine in .45Colt, I got a '94AE. There was no '94AE w/ saddle ring in the Old West of the 1850-1900 period. In fact, there was no '94 Trapper saddle ring carbine in .45Colt untill about 25 years ago. The equally "historically inaccurate" .44magnum version had been around longer. The whole '94AE is not an Old West gun and not to be confused with one and not to be derided as historically inaccurate because it really has nothing to do with the Old West. What I'm saying is it's comparatively NEW TECHNOLOGY. I knew every bit of that when I bought it. I don't consider it an abomination because the real abomination would have been to buy cheap unreliable junk, which is why I chose the Winchester.

Oh, and it's not a "prancing pony" on the side of the Colt's guns. It's properly known as the "rampant colt" logo.:D

mustanger98
January 5, 2006, 10:03 PM
The additional strength of the Ruger is unnecessary if you are going to be shooting nothing but cowboy loads.

Rugers are ok, but again I would say if Old West authenticity is what you are after, the SAA or its clones are closer.

Right, but the Rugers will take a load that will blow up a Peacemaker or clone. In fact, Hornady's 5th Edition Load manual has three sections for .45Colt data and one of those is titled ".45Colt (Ruger and T/C Only)". I have some HP/XTP's handloaded (to hunt deer in thick cover) from that section and they're stout.:D

mustanger98
January 5, 2006, 10:10 PM
But if that is his intent then you are 100% I'm betting the Ruger Vaquero is built similar to the Blackhawk in cyl lock up. Now for the bad news if you are really going to shoot authentic cowboy then you must (and many do) use :uhoh: black powder :what: can you say corrosive.:eek:

I thought of that too. Yeah, the Vaquero is a Blackhawk in a more authentic Old West look and has the modern Ruger cylinder lock-up. (FWIW, I've had a new Vaquero in my hands and it felt good too.) That blackpowder class- I saw that on an episode of "Cowboys" and somebody said "everybody else goes home and puts their guns away and cleans up later, but we have to clean right away" or words to that effect. Personally, I don't care to shoot BP in my Rugers, but that's me. On the other hand, there's another division of SASS/CAS who's members like to go with the old B-western type impression and it can be more fun in ways for anybody who's always liked John Wayne and Roy Rogers and them. But Hey, if you want to go REAL authentic, go "Plainsman" and shoot cap&ball revolvers and BP cartridges in the '73 .44-40.

Lone_Gunman
January 5, 2006, 11:54 PM
Right, but the Rugers will take a load that will blow up a Peacemaker or clone.

We are talking about cowboy action shooting, not Big Foot hunting. So whether or not your cowboy gun takes super hot rounds doesnt matter.


I don't consider it an abomination because the real abomination would have been to buy cheap unreliable junk, which is why I chose the Winchester.

The 1873 replicas made by Uberti today are certainly not cheap nor unreliable. I am not trying to find fault with your Winchester 94 in 45 Colt. It is a fine gun. The only problem I have with it is that the original post in this thread was about authentic Old West guns, and the Winchester 94 in 45 Colt is certainly not in that category, as you know.

TexAg
January 6, 2006, 01:02 AM
We are talking about cowboy action shooting, not Big Foot hunting. So whether or not your cowboy gun takes super hot rounds doesnt matter.



Actually the original poster didn't say anything about cowboy action shooting, maybe we did, but I think its prudent he know that you can shoot as hot a load as you can in a Ruger "Old" Vaquero or Blackhawk and never worry about damaging it.
You can take historical correctness as far as you like; buy an original Colt made 100 years ago, make it in .44-40, buy a really old, original lever gun, etc. Or you can take it a little less far and get a new Colt, or clone, or semi-clone (transfer bars) and get the rifle in, gasp, the appalingly historically inaccurate, but much more available and easier to load .45 Colt.

Lone_Gunman
January 6, 2006, 11:14 AM
Yep, TexAg, you are right about that.

But the starter of the thread said: " i like to be historically correct when looking to make my purchases based on history" in his second post in this thread.

I based the remainder of my discussion on that point.

Matt G
January 6, 2006, 12:26 PM
A friend of mine had a .45 Colt M94 Trapper and a Blackhawk in the same caliber. Both were beautiful, and functional, but neither really correct historically. He just liked the combo. Fine, so far as that goes. In brushy country, he was at a disadvantage to no one for deer hunting.

Well, money got tight, and he sold them off. Now he's looking at getting himself and his wife into cowboy action shooting, and he told me that he's looking at a Rossi M92 in .357 and a .357 Vaquero. I squawked that this was "an abomination" [ :) ] and that if he wants something like that he should get them in .38-40, and...
He interupted me. "Matt," he said patiently, "how many rounds of .38 Special can I get for each round of .38-40?" I allowed that it would be about 2 or three to one. "I'm still kind of poor, and I want to get to shoot! More importantly, I want my wife to do a lot of shooting. I can buy a box of UMC 130g .38 Special for about $6.00 on clearence, and keep the magazine full of magnums for home protection." He had me, and I shut my big mouth. :D

I personally favor going with the historically-correct round and model and load and make. But if you want to shoot, I don't see a problem with taking the slightly off-caliber.

.44-40 is still a completely viable caliber. It's supposed to be a bit of a pain to reload, due to its thin casewalls and slight bottleneck, but I think I'd get a set of dies if I had a rifle or pistol for it. It's still around, certainly. But it's not very often to be found on clearance at WalMart, and the variety of loads is pretty slim. It's generally found loaded in the anemic Cowboy Action loads, which come nowhere near its potential for power, even if you keep within the SAAMI-listed 13,000 psi.

The .44-40 was an amazing step forward from the .44 rimfire cartridge that was available in the Henry, and stuck around for a long time. It was eventually improved upon as a pistol cartridge by the .44 Special and the .45s.

Lone_Gunman
January 6, 2006, 12:54 PM
I am not disagreeing with you MattG.

If cost, ammo availability, reloading potential, or sheer power are you concerns, then a SAA and Winchester 1873 in 44-40 is a poor choice.

If you are trying to have a gun/cartridge combo that is as historically accurate as possible, then a Winchester 1894 in 45 Colt is a poor choice.

Texfire
January 6, 2006, 02:00 PM
A friend of mine had a .45 Colt M94 Trapper and a Blackhawk in the same caliber. Both were beautiful, and functional, but neither really correct historically. He just liked the combo. Fine, so far as that goes. In brushy country, he was at a disadvantage to no one for deer hunting.

Well, money got tight, and he sold them off. Now he's looking at getting himself and his wife into cowboy action shooting, and he told me that he's looking at a Rossi M92 in .357 and a .357 Vaquero. I squawked that this was "an abomination" [ :) ] and that if he wants something like that he should get them in .38-40, and... He interupted me. "Matt," he said patiently, "how many rounds of .38 Special can I get for each round of .38-40?" I allowed that it would be about 2 or three to one. "I'm still kind of poor, and I want to get to shoot! More importantly, I want my wife to do a lot of shooting. I can buy a box of UMC 130g .38 Special for about $6.00 on clearence, and keep the magazine full of magnums for home protection." He had me, and I shut my big mouth. :D

I'm with your friend on this one. I would love to be able to afford and feed an authentic set of period weapons, but I have to be realistic. So I have my Puma Legacy '92 in .357, my Norinco '97, a Beretta Stampede and a Taurus Gaucho both in .357. Not a single gun in my cowboy battery cost me over $450. I pay $8 for 50 rounds of reloaded lead slug .38 cowboy load. And with me shooting and average of 160 rounds a match, shooting .38 allows me to continue enjoying this wonderful pastime. Would I love to have a Cimmaron '73 in 44-40 with a matching pair of SAA? Or better yet, a Springfield Trapdoor with a matching Schofield? You bet your boots I would, but I'm going to get a Taurus Thunderbolt in .357, when they come out, because it's going to be at a price I can afford.

All that said, I think the really important thing is the spirit of the game. Authentic is an ideal that should be persued, but I'm not going to sit on the sidelines because I can't pony the bucks for authentic gear. I may have ended up with a battery of guns that could be dismissed as a "gamer" setup, but those accusations are pretty much dismissed when they see my ranking at the middle of the pack. :)

Tex

Camp David
January 6, 2006, 02:07 PM
If you are trying to have a gun/cartridge combo that is as historically accurate as possible, then a Winchester 1894 in 45 Colt is a poor choice.

Lone_Gunman... what is "historically accurate" in this case? Has anyone done research on whether western lever actions were chambered in 45LC and which brand? What time period?

A while back I came across a old photo of 49ers in Canada/Alaska during the Gold Rush and popular rifle/pistol combos were in 45LC so they would have identical ammo and not have to carry two types....

bg
January 6, 2006, 03:04 PM
Lucas McCain knew what to expect from his Winnie 44-40.
The Rifleman's weapon was "in actuality" an 1892 .44-40 Winchester carbine specially modified with a large loop and metal tab to turn his rifle into a rapid firing machine. It was fitted with a large loop lever that enabled it to be spun and cocked in a dramatic fashion. The trigger guard incorporated a screw that tripped the trigger every time the lever was closed. In the words of Chuck Connors "We decided to take the rifle; take off the regular lever and put this round lever on so I could get my hand through it." McCain's proficiency with his rifle earned him a reputation and nickname of "The Rifleman" when he lived in the Nations. He reportedly could squeeze off a round of ammunition every three-tenth of a second and fire eight times in two-and-a-half seconds. Lucas spent more time fighting criminals than ranching on the show, often helping Micah Torrance (Paul Fix), the aging town Marshal.
Hard to argue with the Rifleman...;)

http://www.tvacres.com/images/gun_mccain.jpg

Sorry couldn't resist..:)

Sure isn't anything wrong with this Cimarron Model P.
It'd just be nice to have both the rifle and pistola in
the same caliber. Still a nice looking weapon.
http://www.gunshopfinder.com/cimarron/modelP.asp

mustanger98
January 6, 2006, 03:28 PM
Now come to think of it, Sheriff Jim Wilson wrote one of his collumns in Shooting Times on a rancher/range-detective/lawman type who's name I can't recall right off. This guy used an 1873 Winchester in .44-40. According to Sheriff Wilson, the guy would step off his horse with his rifle in hand, the horse being between him and whoever the adversary was. When the horse cleared, this guy was working his lever with all four finger through it, and tripping the trigger with his thumb. He later switched to an 1894 .30-30 and used the same tactics. Sheriff Wilson allowed as the guy probably looked a lot like Lucas McCain in this respect, with the exception of McCain's '92 having the set-up to rapid fire just be slamming the lever shut. I wish I could recall the man's name right off.

BTW, I've tried the deal about working the lever and tripping the trigger with the thumb. It does work. I beleive a '94 Trapper, or other model Winchesters, can be gotten into action fast from being slung muzzle down and fired in this manner.

Lone_Gunman
January 6, 2006, 04:35 PM
Has anyone done research on whether western lever actions were chambered in 45LC and which brand? What time period?

Winchester lever guns from the days of the Old West were not chambered in 45 Colt. If someone can find any information that contradicts this, I would be interested in seeing it, though skeptical. Everything I have ever seen or read indicates Winchester did not use that chambering in the old days (late 1800's-early 1900's).

A while back I came across a old photo of 49ers in Canada/Alaska during the Gold Rush and popular rifle/pistol combos were in 45LC so they would have identical ammo and not have to carry two types

I don't think any 49er's would have had any guns chambered in 45 Colt. I do not believe that 45 colt was introduced until the 1870's.

Malamute
January 6, 2006, 04:47 PM
"Lone_Gunman... what is "historically accurate" in this case? Has anyone done research on whether western lever actions were chambered in 45LC and which brand? What time period?

A while back I came across a old photo of 49ers in Canada/Alaska during the Gold Rush and popular rifle/pistol combos were in 45LC so they would have identical ammo and not have to carry two types...."


Well, yes, someone has researched this, and it isn't too difficult to find out. Nobody chambered a rifle in 45 Colt cal until the last 15 or 20 years. Before this, Winchester never had any model so chambered, nor did Marlin or anyone else.

The picture you saw mentioned the caliber of the guns they had? I would venture to say that the caption may have said something to the effect of what you said, but it was incorrect. Also, as far as going into Canada, the Mounties generally checked everyone coming in at the border, and did not allow handguns into their country during the gold rush period. BTW, the Alaskan and Canadian gold rush period was in the 1898 to early 1900's period. The "49er's" were in California in 1849. The 1894 Winchesters in 30 WCF (30-30) were pretty popular in the north.

Noah Zark
January 6, 2006, 06:16 PM
. . . My experience dealing with the Marlin 1894 Cowboy rifle and Winchester '94AE Trapper carbine, both in .45Colt, is they are both quite reliable with no failures to feed, fire, or eject . . .

FWIW, I like the rifle/carbine w/sixgun combo in one caliber and like mine in .45Colt. I also would personally rather have such a combo in .44magnum or .357magnum over the .44-40 because I know what I'm doing handloading for them. I'll also say if somebody likes .44-40 they should go for it and enjoy it as it is one of the old survivors.

+1.

I have two 1894 Marlins in 45 Colt, one a 16" low-production carbine, the other an octagonal 1894CB. Both have been FLAWLESS in cycling and reliability. They make great companions to my 45 Colt SA revolvers, a Bisley Vaquero, a standard Vaquero, and a new Beretta. I'm eyeballing a Taurus Thunderbolt to join the party . . .

Noah

engineer151515
January 6, 2006, 06:50 PM
Good reference info

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_handgun_cartridges

georgeduz
January 6, 2006, 07:08 PM
historical correctness is unimportant,why change your loads.and i like the rugers better than the colts SA.and sure the colt is good but not worth the money.the ruger is great and only runs about 500 dollars.

mustanger98
January 6, 2006, 08:02 PM
And what is historical correctness anyway? Everything we've discussed in this thread is historically correct to the respective time periods they were produced and sold. 1873 Winchester .44-40 is "historically correct" to 1873-end-of-production to the present day. 1894 Winchester in all it's chamberings- including .357mag, .44mag, and .45Colt- are historically correct from 1894 the present day with consideration for when the individual chamberings were introduced. It all depends on what period you're really seriously making the impression for, if that's the case. With the ammo considerations (cost- round for round), as Texfire mentioned, not all cowboy action shooting is meant to be period correct so much as it is recreational. And, as I said, some SASS/CAS shooters are doing the B-western thing because it's fun.

FWIW, with mention of Chuck Connors and the souped-up 1892 .44-40, :D I thought of doing a rifle like that just for the B-western deal :D, but I doubt it would be allowed in competition for being a "period incorrect" modification. Trouble with certain modifications being against the rules is the top SASS shooters are using a bunch of modifications that didn't exist before the last couple of years, such as reverse palls in sixguns and short-throw lever kits in '73's which speed up reloads in sixguns and speed cycling in the '73. This is one reason I'm not too aweful interested in competing in the big SASS shoots as opposed to the little local shoots where we know everybody and this kind of stuff gets discussed and cussed and all and everybody's there to have fun.

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