US agents shot at, tension mounts on Mexico border


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Rusher
January 5, 2006, 07:16 PM
It's getting a little hotter down there.....yes peaceful immigrants looking for honest work

http://today.reuters.com/news/newsarticle.aspx?type=domesticNews&storyid=2006-01-05T183209Z_01_SIB566190_RTRUKOC_0_US-MEXICO-USA.xml&rpc=22

MEXICO CITY (Reuters) - U.S. Border Patrol agents have come under fire twice along the Rio Grande in Texas in recent days amid rising tension on the frontier with Mexico, although no one was reported wounded, U.S. authorities said on Thursday.

A Border Patrol spokesman said unknown gunmen fired on agents on patrol in Brownsville, Texas, late on Wednesday. It was not immediately clear if the shots came from Mexico or from within the United States.

"Shots were fired, no one was injured and the FBI have taken the case over," Jose Rodriguez, a spokesman for the Border Patrol in McAllen, Texas, said by telephone.

Rodriguez said the shooting was the second along the same stretch of the Rio Grande in the past week, after agents patrolling the area in a launch on Friday came under a volley of gunfire from Mexico.

"On that occasion the shooters were hiding in brush on the Mexican side of the river ... The launch was struck by five bullets, although there were no injuries," he said.

That incident came on the same day a Border Patrol agent fatally shot a teenage Mexican immigrant as he crossed the border near San Diego on December 30, triggering widespread anger in Mexico and calls for a full investigation.

Speaking to Mexican diplomats late on Wednesday, President Vicente Fox reiterated calls by the Mexican government for clarification of the killing, and pledged to "ensure that total justice is done in the case."

The 2,000-mile (3,200-km) U.S.-Mexico border has always been dangerous, although violent attacks on Border Patrol agents have risen in recent months, especially in Arizona, where around half the 1.2 million undocumented immigrants nabbed crossing from Mexico were detained last year.

The Tucson sector Border Patrol said attacks on agents havroe almost doubled in recent months, and included cases in which officers have been shot at, rammed with cars and pelted with rocks by immigrants and smugglers.



Reuters 2006. All Rights Reserved.

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Sindawe
January 5, 2006, 07:32 PM
Speaking to Mexican diplomats late on Wednesday, President Vicente Fox reiterated calls by the Mexican government for clarification of the killing, and pledged to "ensure that total justice is done in the case." :barf: A crimminal invader into a sovereign nation was dispatched to the back of the line. Justice HAS been done.

The more I hear and read about this kind of crud, the more convinced I am that its Heads on Pikes time. :fire:

rick_reno
January 5, 2006, 07:36 PM
Hopefully, once the Bush "guest worker" plan is put in place this violence will stop.

Lupinus
January 5, 2006, 07:45 PM
Hopefully, once the Bush "guest worker" plan is put in place this violence will stop.
Hopefully it wont go through bush will grow some or the next guy will have some cookies and put the damned military on the american boarder where it belongs isntead of the Iraqi boarder.

shermacman
January 5, 2006, 07:51 PM
"Shots were fired, no one was injured and the FBI have taken the case over,"

Go back to sleep, the problem is solved.

The Mexicans are simply doing the shootings that Americans refuse to do...

Standing Wolf
January 5, 2006, 09:12 PM
I'm sure Jorge Bush has a plan.

Biker
January 5, 2006, 09:32 PM
This is going to a good place, a place of definitions.
Biker

mcooper
January 5, 2006, 11:40 PM
the solution would be to defend one's self and not run. Law enforcement should not be on our borders to protect us from invaders. The military should, the LEO's could be there to aid americans in their legal movements across the border.

longeyes
January 5, 2006, 11:49 PM
Hopefully, once the Bush "guest worker" plan is put in place this violence will stop.

Once the United States is turned over to Mexico, its rightful owner, this violence will stop.:mad:

Lennyjoe
January 6, 2006, 12:04 AM
Its George:banghead:

BUBBA74
January 6, 2006, 12:19 AM
I have a feeling its drug runners doing the shooting. I dont see why regular folks would try and shoot the border patrol while crossing over for work. It just draws attention. I also dont see many Americans busting their ass in the sun all day picking oranges for $3 bushel. So someone better have a damned good plan before we push all the illegals back into Mexico and seal off the border.

Pilgrim
January 6, 2006, 12:39 AM
"Shots were fired, no one was injured and the FBI have taken the case over," Jose Rodriguez, a spokesman for the Border Patrol in McAllen, Texas, said by telephone.
Unless the FBI can surround the shooters in a flammable building, I don't expect much from the FBI.

Pilgrim

wingman
January 6, 2006, 01:12 AM
I also dont see many Americans busting their ass in the sun all day picking oranges for $3 bushel. So someone better have a damned good plan before we push all the illegals back into Mexico and seal off the border.

Yes, it would be tragic if we had to pick our own oranges, clean bathrooms,
etc,fact is if we cannot do this work then we don't deserve to occupy this
country and should turn it over to those who will.:rolleyes:

odysseus
January 6, 2006, 01:36 AM
Drugs, drugs, drugs and other illicit trades. People say putting up a harder border won't stop illegal immigration. I agree, it won't stop it. It will slow it down, and it will slow down and make it harder and more expensive for "raiding" parties to just drive on through unmolested as easily as they have. Maybe I am an idealist....:rolleyes:

Pilgrim
January 6, 2006, 01:49 AM
I also dont see many Americans busting their ass in the sun all day picking oranges for $3 bushel. So someone better have a damned good plan before we push all the illegals back into Mexico and seal off the border.
It's probably because they can draw more money from unemployment or welfare and not have to bust their ass in the meantime.

Pilgrim

odysseus
January 6, 2006, 01:54 AM
I also dont see many Americans busting their ass in the sun all day picking oranges for $3 bushel. So someone better have a damned good plan before we push all the illegals back into Mexico and seal off the border.

Yeah, it's called LEGAL IMMIGRATION AND WORK VISA's. That's how we have been doin' it the USA way for years. That's how many hardworking people who took the risk to come here made their way. So your advocating illegal immigration? :scrutiny:

slzy
January 6, 2006, 03:09 AM
i don't know the story here,but human smugglers are called coyotes i think,and i am reasonably sure this type of individual has killed people in other smuggling activities,and is certainly not going to let one border patrolman interfere with his turnaround.

shecky
January 6, 2006, 03:20 AM
Just like the illegal drug trade, or the illegal alcohol trade (during prohibition), illegal immigration creates a market for only rats will exploit. Best way to solve that problem? Remove the "il" from "illegal". Tht way, we could pay someone to pick our oranges, clean bathrooms, etc. Like we're doing now, just without the black market economy to deal with.

Sindawe
January 6, 2006, 04:45 AM
Don't like whats occuring in this country with respet to illegal aliens? Make your voice heard.

++++++++++++++++++++++Begin Paste
Note: Due to the new high levels of web traffic, the ALIPAC website will be down for a few hours sometime over the next two days as we upgrade our capacity.

ALIPAC Supporters:

Sorry for the late notice, we have been swamped with demand.

There will be a national day of protest this Sat and we wanted you to have the details. Below you will find complete information. You may want to link up with a protest that is already arranged in your state or you may want to start your own with some friends. Please exercise caution in California, New Mexico, and Arizona as we have received word that the communists, socialists, and Aztlan separatist Goons will be out in some of those areas.

While ALIPAC's main focus is on the Congress, we like to provide you with events that you might want to support or participate in. Please forward this alert to your contacts.

Here are the details. For further guidance and info contact http://www.firecoalition.com/ or http://www.ctcitizensforimmigrationcontrol.com/

CT Citizens for Immigration Control has a list of groups participating.

So far there are protests planned in 19 states. Full details and contact info below. Perhaps you can add your state to the list!

-------------------------------

The Federal Immigration Reform and Enforcement Coalition (FIRE Coalition) is
proud to support a National Day of Protest ("Stop the Invasion") on Saturday,
January 7, 2006, organized nationally by the Connecticut Citizens for
Immigration Reform. There will be a national demonstration at illegal worker
pick-up sites in 19 states across the country this weekend. At least 40 grass
roots organizations are participating in this effort.

Below is a list of scheduled events for January 7th for Arizona, California,
Colorado, Connecticut, Georgia, Illinois, Kansas, Massachusetts, Missouri, Nevada, New Jersey, New York, Oklahoma, Oregon, Pennsylvania, Tennessee, Texas, Utah and Virginia. If an event is convenient for you, please participate! We need a strong show of support before the Senate begins considering various
guestworker/amnesty proposals.

For more information:
FIRE Coalition: http://firecoalition.com/
Connecticut Citizens for Immigration Reform: CTCitizensForImmigrationControl.com

ARIZONA

Rally sponsored by Phoenix AZ Minutemen (MCDC) and Veterans For Secure Borders (part
of the "Stop the Invasion" National Protest Day)
Saturday, January 7th, 2006
8 a.m. - 11 a.m.
36th Street and Thomas Road
Phoenix, Arizona
(meet at 7:30 at Home Depot at 32nd and Thomas for caravan to location)
Protest law breaking employers that create the incentive for illegal immigrants to
come to the U.S. by attending a rally at an illegal worker pick-up location.
If you are interested in joining in this event, please contact the below:
Email: Azcactus@aol.com

Rally sponsored by Arizona Border Watch (part of the "Stop the Invasion" National
Protest Day)
Saturday, January 7th, 2006
(contact event organizer for time and location)
Protest law breaking employers that create the incentive for illegal immigrants to
come to the U.S. by attending a rally at an illegal worker pick-up location.
If you are interested in joining in this event, please contact the below:
Email: azborder@msn.com
Websites: AzBorderwatch.com; and Southwestprotection.com

---------------------------------


CALIFORNIA

Fire Dreier (2006) and Bad Employers Protest Rally (part of the "Stop the Invasion"
National Protest Day)
Saturday, January 7th, 2006
Time: 8 a.m. - 11 a.m.
8118 Arrow Route, Across the street from Arrow & Grove Market
Rancho Cucamonga, California
Protest law breaking employers that create the incentive for illegal immigrants to
come to the U.S. by attending a rally at an illegal worker pick-up location.
This rally is also to protest the un-American, open borders policies of Congressman
David Dreier, who has a long history of supporting guestworker/amnesty plans that
have displaced American workers and legal U.S. residents from many jobs.
If you are interested in joining in this event, please contact the below:
Email: robin@FIRECoalition.com

Protest(s) Sponsored by California Coalition for Immigration Reform (part of the
"Stop the Invasion" National Protest Day)
Saturday, January 7th, 2006
Time: To Be Announced (morning hours)
Multiple Possible Sites in Orange County, California (contact event organizer for
exact times and locations)
Protest law breaking employers that create the incentive for illegal immigrants to
come to the U.S. by attending a rally at an illegal worker pick-up location.
If you are interested in joining in this event, please contact the below:
Email: barb@ccir.net
Telephone (toll free): 1-877-NO-ILLEGALS (or 1-877-664-5534)

Protest sponsored by South Orange County Citizens for Immigration Reform (part of
the "Stop the Invasion" National Protest Day)
Saturday, January 7th, 2006
Time: 8 a.m. - 11 a.m.
1765 Laguna Canyon Rd. (Highway 133), Laguna Beach (across street from Ganahl Lumber)
Protest law breaking employers that create the incentive for illegal immigrants to
come to the U.S. by attending a rally at an illegal worker pick-up location.
If you are interested in joining in this event, please contact the below:
Email: LBGeorgeEileen@aol.com

Bad Employers Protest, sponsored by Minutemen Making a Difference (part of the "Stop
the Invasion" National Protest Day)
Saturday, January 7th, 2006
Time: 8 a.m. - 11 a.m.
25262 Jeronimo Road (across from the Liquor Store; near the Jeronimo & El Toro pick
up site)
Lake Forest, California
Protest law breaking employers that create the incentive for illegal immigrants to
come to the U.S. by attending a rally at an illegal worker pick-up location.
If you are interested in joining in this event, please contact the below:
Email: vinc7333@hotmail.com and bdaz01@cox.net

Save Our State Day Labor Center Protest (part of the "Stop the Invasion" National
Protest Day)
Saturday, January 7th, 2006
Time: 8 a.m. - 11 a.m.
Greater Los Angeles Area, California (contact event organizer for exact location)
Protest law breaking employers that create the incentive for illegal immigrants to
come to the U.S. by attending a rally at an illegal worker pick-up location.
If you are interested in joining in this event, please contact the below:
Email: saveourstate@gmail.com
Website: http://www.saveourstate.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=6702

Minuteman Protest in Santa Monica (part of the "Stop the Invasion" National Protest
Day)
Saturday, January 7th, 2006
Time: 9 a.m. - 11 a.m.
1636 11th Street (between Olympic and Colorado; across street from Bourget Brothers
Hardware)
Santa Monica
Protest law breaking employers that create the incentive for illegal immigrants to
come to the U.S. by attending a rally at an illegal worker pick-up location.
If you are interested in joining in this event, please contact the below:
Email: tony@dolz.com
Website: http://dolz.com/

Protest sponsored by Minutemen Patriots of So. Cal. (part of the "Stop the Invasion"
National Protest Day)
Saturday, January 7th, 2006
Time: To Be Announced (morning hours)
Upland, California (contact event organizer for exact time and location)
Protest law breaking employers that create the incentive for illegal immigrants to
come to the U.S. by attending a rally at an illegal worker pick-up location.
If you are interested in joining in this event, please contact the below:
Email: ivpennyfarm@aol.com

Minuteman Protest in El Cajon (part of the "Stop the Invasion" National Protest Day)
Saturday, January 7th, 2006
Time: 7 a.m. - 9:30 a.m.
965 Arnele Avenue (Home Depot)
El Cajon, California
Protest law breaking employers that create the incentive for illegal immigrants to
come to the U.S. by attending a rally at an illegal worker pick-up location.
If you are interested in joining in this event, please contact the below:
Email: DRussell9@aol.com

Protest sponsored by USA Border Alert (part of the "Stop the Invasion" National
Protest Day)
Saturday, January 7th, 2006
Time: To Be Announced (morning hours)
North San Diego County, California (contact event organizer for exact time and
location)
Protest law breaking employers that create the incentive for illegal immigrants to
come to the U.S. by attending a rally at an illegal worker pick-up location.
If you are interested in joining in this event, please contact the below:
Email: WanderingStar48@aol.com
Website: USABorderAlert.com.

Protest sponsored by San Diego Minutemen (part of the "Stop the Invasion" National
Protest Day)
Saturday, January 7th, 2006
Time: To Be Announced (morning hours)
North San Diego County, California (contact event organizer for exact time and
location)
Protest law breaking employers that create the incentive for illegal immigrants to
come to the U.S. by attending a rally at an illegal worker pick-up location.
If you are interested in joining in this event, please contact the below:
Email: SDMM@cox.net

---------------------------------


COLORADO

Protest Rally sponsored by Colorado Minutemen and Colorado Alliance for Immigration
Reform (part of the "Stop the Invasion" National Protest Day)
Saturday, January 7th, 2006
"El Centro Humanitario" day labor site, 2260 California Street
Denver, Colorado 80205
Time: 7:30 a.m.- 11 a.m.
Protest law breaking employers that create the incentive for illegal immigrants to
come to the U.S. by attending a rally at an illegal worker pick-up location.
If you are interested in joining in this event, please contact the below:
Email: jeffschwilk@cox.net
Website: SovereigntyColorado.com

---------------------------------


CONNECTICUT

Protest Rally sponsored by Connecticut Citizens for Immigration Reform (part of the
"Stop the Invasion" National Protest Day)
Saturday, January 7th, 2006
Time: 7:30-9:30 a.m.
Danbury, Kennedy Park
Protest law breaking employers that create the incentive for illegal immigrants to
come to the U.S. by attending a rally at an illegal worker pick-up location.
If you are interested in joining in this event, please contact the below:
Email: CTCIC@optonline.net
WebSite: CTCitizensForImmigrationControl.com

---------------------------------


GEORGIA

Protest Rally sponsored by The Duntin Inman Society (part of the "Stop the Invasion"
National Protest Day)
Saturday, January 7th, 2006
Atlanta, Georgia
Time: morning hours (contact event organizers for exact time and location)
Protest law breaking employers that create the incentive for illegal immigrants to
come to the U.S. by attending a rally at an illegal worker pick-up location.
If you are interested in joining in this event, please contact the below:
Email: dking1952@comcast.net
WebSite: TheDustinInmanSociety.org

---------------------------------


ILLINOIS

Protest Rally sponsored by Chicago Minuteman Project (CMP) and Indiana Federation
for Immigration Reform and Enforcement (IFIRE) (part of the "Stop the Invasion"
National Protest Day)
Saturday, January 7th, 2006
Home Depot, 2600 Cicero Avenue South
Cicero, Illinois
Time: morning hours (contact event organizer for exact time)
Protest law breaking employers that create the incentive for illegal immigrants to
come to the U.S. by attending a rally at an illegal worker pick-up location.
If you are interested in joining in this event, please contact the below:
CMP E-mail: Beesba@aol.com
IFIRE E-mail: tony1946@comcast.net
CMP Website: ChicagoMinutemanProject.com
IFIRE Website: IFIRE.org

continued in next post...

Sindawe
January 6, 2006, 04:46 AM
---------------------------------


KANSAS

Protest Rally sponsored by Mid-American Immigration Reform Coalition (part of the
"Stop the Invasion" National Protest Day)
Saturday, January 7th, 2006
Westside Community Action Network, 2136 Jefferson
Kansas City, Missouri
Time: morning hours (contact event organizers for exact time and location)
Protest law breaking employers that create the incentive for illegal immigrants to
come to the U.S. by attending a rally at an illegal worker pick-up location.
If you are interested in joining in this event, please contact the below:
Email: Jmmucci@aol.com

---------------------------------


MASSACHUSETTS

Protest Rally sponsored by New England Minuteman Association (part of the "Stop the
Invasion" National Protest Day)
Saturday, January 7th, 2006
Framingham, Massachusetts
Time: morning hours (contact event organizers for exact time and location)
Protest law breaking employers that create the incentive for illegal immigrants to
come to the U.S. by attending a rally at an illegal worker pick-up location.
If you are interested in joining in this event, please contact the below:
Email: newenglandminuteman@msn.com

Protest Rally sponsored by Mass. Coalition for Immigration Reform (part of the "Stop
the Invasion" National Protest Day)
Saturday, January 7th, 2006
Framingham, Massachusetts
Time: morning hours (contact event organizers for exact time and location)
Protest law breaking employers that create the incentive for illegal immigrants to
come to the U.S. by attending a rally at an illegal worker pick-up location.
If you are interested in joining in this event, please contact the below:
Email: arcasimiro@msn.com

Protest Rally by Concerned Citizens and Friends of Illegal Immigration Law
Enforcement (part of the "Stop the Invasion" National Protest Day)
Saturday, January 7th, 2006
Framingham, Massachusetts
Time: morning hours (contact event organizers for exact time and location)
Protest law breaking employers that create the incentive for illegal immigrants to
come to the U.S. by attending a rally at an illegal worker pick-up location.
If you are interested in joining in this event, please contact the below:
Email: IAMACCFILE@aol.com

---------------------------------


MISSOURI

Protest Rally sponsored by Mid-American Immigration Reform Coalition (part of the
"Stop the Invasion" National Protest Day)
Saturday, January 7th, 2006
Westside Community Action Network, 2136 Jefferson
Kansas City, Missouri
Time: morning hours (contact event organizers for exact time and location)
Protest law breaking employers that create the incentive for illegal immigrants to
come to the U.S. by attending a rally at an illegal worker pick-up location.
If you are interested in joining in this event, please contact the below:
Email: Jmmucci@aol.com

---------------------------------


NEVADA

Protest Rally sponsored by Nevada Minutemen and Wake Up America Foundation (part of
the "Stop the Invasion" National Protest Day)
Saturday, January 7th, 2006
Henderson, Nevada
Time: morning hours (contact event organizers for exact time and location)
Protest law breaking employers that create the incentive for illegal immigrants to
come to the U.S. by attending a rally at an illegal worker pick-up location.
If you are interested in joining in this event, please contact the below:
Email: staff@UniteToFight.org
Website: UniteToFight.org

Protest Rally sponsored by Secured Borders U.S.A. (part of the "Stop the Invasion"
National Protest Day)
Saturday, January 7th, 2006
Las Vegas, Nevada
Time: morning hours (contact event organizers for exact time and location)
Protest law breaking employers that create the incentive for illegal immigrants to
come to the U.S. by attending a rally at an illegal worker pick-up location.
If you are interested in joining in this event, please contact the below:
Email: SecuredBordersUSA@yahoo.com
Website: SecuredBordersUSA.com

---------------------------------


NEW JERSEY

Protest Rally sponsored by United Patriots of America (part of the "Stop the
Invasion" National Protest Day)
Saturday, January 7th, 2006
Bergen County
Time: morning hours (contact event organizers for exact time and location)
Protest law breaking employers that create the incentive for illegal immigrants to
come to the U.S. by attending a rally at an illegal worker pick-up location.
If you are interested in joining in this event, please contact the below:
Email: Ronbass2005@aol.com

---------------------------------


NEW YORK

Protest Rallys sponsored by New York Minutemen (part of the "Stop the Invasion"
National Protest Day)
Saturday, January 7th, 2006
Freeport Home Depot on Sunrise Highway,
Farmingville, New York
Time: morning hours (contact event organizers for exact time)
Protest law breaking employers that create the incentive for illegal immigrants to
come to the U.S. by attending a rally at an illegal worker pick-up location.
If you are interested in joining in this event, please contact the below:
Email: rzrblade@optonline.net

Protest Rally sponsored by Citizens Civil Defense (part of the "Stop the Invasion"
National Protest Day)
Saturday, January 7th, 2006
Rockland County, Spring Valley / Nanuet Rt. 59 - New York
Time: morning hours (contact event organizers for exact time and location)
Protest law breaking employers that create the incentive for illegal immigrants to
come to the U.S. by attending a rally at an illegal worker pick-up location.
If you are interested in joining in this event, please contact the below:
Email: wetibbe@msn.com

Protest Rally sponsored by Greater Farmingville Community Association (part of the
"Stop the Invasion" National Protest Day)
Saturday, January 7th, 2006
Meet at Farmingville Video Mart between 8 a.m. and 8:30 a.m. - New York
(contact event organizers for additional information)
Protest law breaking employers that create the incentive for illegal immigrants to
come to the U.S. by attending a rally at an illegal worker pick-up location.
If you are interested in joining in this event, please contact the below:
Email: rolnfeet@optonline.net

---------------------------------


OKLAHOMA

Oklahoma City Protest by Immigration Reform for Oklahoma Now (OKIRON) (part of the
"Stop the Invasion" National Protest Day)
Saturday, January 7th, 2006
Time: 2:30 P.M.
South side of the state Capitol building
Oklahoma City, Oklahoma
Protest law breaking employers that create the incentive for illegal immigrants to
come to the U.S. by attending a rally at an illegal worker pick-up location.
If you are interested in joining in this event, please contact the below:
Email: ironideas@yahoo.com
WebSite: okiron.org

Tulsa Protest by Immigration Reform for Oklahoma Now (OKIRON) (part of the "Stop the
Invasion" National Protest Day)
Saturday, January 7th, 2006
Time: to be announced
Tulsa, Oklahoma (contact organizers for exact time and location)
Protest law breaking employers that create the incentive for illegal immigrants to
come to the U.S. by attending a rally at an illegal worker pick-up location.
If you are interested in joining in this event, please contact the below:
Email: ironideas@yahoo.com
WebSite: okiron.org

---------------------------------


OREGON

Protest Rally sponsored by Citizen Caucus (part of the "Stop the Invasion" National
Protest Day)
Saturday, January 7th, 2006
Location: to be decided
Time: morning hours (contact event organizers for exact time and location)
Protest law breaking employers that create the incentive for illegal immigrants to
come to the U.S. by attending a rally at an illegal worker pick-up location.
If you are interested in joining in this event, please contact the below:
Email: michael97449@earthlink.net
Website: CitizenCaucus.org

---------------------------------


PENNSYLVANIA

Protest Rally sponsored by Pennsylvania Minutemen (part of the "Stop the Invasion"
National Protest Day)
Saturday, January 7th, 2006
In front of Pennsylvania Attorney General's Regional Office, Philadelphia,
Pennsylvania
Time: morning hours (contact event organizers for exact time)
Protest law breaking employers that create the incentive for illegal immigrants to
come to the U.S. by attending a rally at an illegal worker pick-up location.
If you are interested in joining in this event, please contact the below:
Email: admin@pennsylvaniaminutemen.org

---------------------------------


TENNESSEE

Protest Rally sponsored by American Minutemen of Tennessee (part of the "Stop the
Invasion" National Protest Day)
Saturday, January 7th, 2006
Location: To be announced
Time: morning hours (contact event organizers for exact time and location)
Protest law breaking employers that create the incentive for illegal immigrants to
come to the U.S. by attending a rally at an illegal worker pick-up location.
If you are interested in joining in this event, please contact the below:
Email: RLGARRI@aol.com

---------------------------------


TEXAS

Protest Rally sponsored by Lone Star Minutemen (part of the "Stop the Invasion"
National Protest Day)
Saturday, January 7th, 2006
Location: Denton, Texas (at a day labor center)
Time: morning hours (contact event organizers for exact time and location)
Protest law breaking employers that create the incentive for illegal immigrants to
come to the U.S. by attending a rally at an illegal worker pick-up location.
If you are interested in joining in this event, please contact the below:
Email: Clintexas@aol.com

Protest Rally sponsored by Texans for Immigration Reform (part of the "Stop the
Invasion" National Protest Day)
Saturday, January 7th, 2006
Time / Location: (contact event organizers for exact time and location)
Protest law breaking employers that create the incentive for illegal immigrants to
come to the U.S. by attending a rally at an illegal worker pick-up location.
If you are interested in joining in this event, please contact the below:
Email: dvmancuso1@juno.com

Protest Rally sponsored by The Confederacy of Texas (part of the "Stop the Invasion"
National Protest Day)
Saturday, January 7th, 2006
Location: Austin, Texas
Time: morning hours (contact event organizers for exact time and location)
Protest law breaking employers that create the incentive for illegal immigrants to
come to the U.S. by attending a rally at an illegal worker pick-up location.
If you are interested in joining in this event, please contact the below:
Email: sstexas88@sbcglobal.net

---------------------------------


UTAH

Protest Rally sponsored by Utah Minutemen (part of the "Stop the Invasion" National
Protest Day)
Saturday, January 7th, 2006
Location: to be decided
Time: morning hours (contact event organizers for exact time and location)
Protest law breaking employers that create the incentive for illegal immigrants to
come to the U.S. by attending a rally at an illegal worker pick-up location.
If you are interested in joining in this event, please contact the below:
Email: wvmccormick@yahoo.com

---------------------------------


VIRGINIA

Protest by Herndon Minutemen (part of the "Stop the Invasion" National Protest Day)
Saturday, January 7th, 2006
Time: 7 a.m. -- 10 a.m.
Herndon, Virginia (at the day labor site)
Protest law breaking employers that create the incentive for illegal immigrants to
come to the U.S. by attending a rally at an illegal worker pick-up location.
If you are interested in joining in this particular listed event, please contact the
below:
Email: gtap1000@hotmail.com

---------------------------------



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URL: http://FIRECoalition.com/
General inquiries: info@FIRECoalition.com

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LAK
January 6, 2006, 05:20 AM
I have a feeling its drug runners doing the shooting. I dont see why regular folks would try and shoot the border patrol while crossing over for work. It just draws attention.
Which is precisely why drug runners or anyone smuggling anything else would not do it. Unless they happen to be their own best customers.

My own guess is paid agent provocateurs - possibly Mexican army, agents or police on whom suspicion by their own agencies is not likely to fall or be investigated, or whom in all likelyhood would part of the official responders in the response and investigation south of the border.

Or it could be common thugs or gangbangers doing what might be expected of them.
--------------------------------------

http://ussliberty.org
http://ssunitedstates.org

gt3944
January 6, 2006, 11:08 AM
One question all the people in here complaining;I really want to know....how many of you all, have been affected by the people crossing the border to come do the jobs none of you all want to do...well come on speak up let me hear it...

chaim
January 6, 2006, 11:36 AM
One question all the people in here complaining;I really want to know....how many of you all, have been affected by the people crossing the border to come do the jobs none of you all want to do...well come on speak up let me hear it...

Actually, more people than you would expect are effected, and these immigrants don't only do jobs that "none of you all want to do".

There is a huge number of illegal immigrants in the Washington area and they have also moved up to Baltimore. There aren't exactly a lot of farming jobs around here. Where do they work? In restaraunts, hotels, factories, construction, retail establishments, bars, as maids, as nannies, etc. A few years ago, I worked a second job in a pizza place as a delivery driver. I was one of two citizens, and almost all of the non-citizens were here in the US illegally. Guess what I was paid, the same as I was when I delivered pizza 15 years ago.

If you work in the service industry, in manual labor, in construction, as a domestic (nanny or maid), etc. you are effected even if you have a job. How? Lower wages. It is basic economics- when you have a large pool of people willing to work for next to nothing it will drive down wages as a whole (even in employers unwilling to hire illegals since they will only pay the "prevailing wage" and that wage is effected by illegals).

gt3944
January 6, 2006, 12:07 PM
thats another story which you have to take up with the people hiring them so that they can lower wages(mainly the money hungry employers)...but to say its ok to shoot them when crossing the border, I dont think is right....

chaim
January 6, 2006, 12:48 PM
thats another story which you have to take up with the people hiring them so that they can lower wages(mainly the money hungry employers)...but to say its ok to shoot them when crossing the border, I dont think is right....
Umm, I don't know what article you just read but the one I read had Mexicans shooting at US Border Patrol agents, not Americans shooting at people illegally crossing the border. Also, I don't see where I, or anyone else here, has advocated shooting people crossing the border. :rolleyes:

roo_ster
January 6, 2006, 12:59 PM
One question all the people in here complaining;I really want to know....how many of you all, have been affected by the people crossing the border to come do the jobs none of you all want to do...well come on speak up let me hear it...

I live in:
State of Texas
City of Richardson
Dallas County
Richardson Independant School District

About half* of my property taxes (2.899960%/year) go to support illegal aliens and their employers. I have not made an estimate of state & local sales taxes (8.25%) that go to support illegals and their taxpayer-subsidized employers.

Parkland Hospital (http://www.parklandfoundation.org/pdf/ParklandDocs.pdf), Dallas County's public hospital:
15,300 surgeries per year.
Almost 16,000 babies delivered
150,000 total emergency room visits
883,000 outpatient visits
"...number[s] will only grow with the continuing influx of Hispanic families, many of whom are uninsured." Many?!? How many illegals come over the border with health insurance?

40-60% of the births are anchor babies. I'd reckon similar stats for the other procedures.

Richardson ISD (http://www.risd.org/AboutRISD/district_profile.htm):
Ethnicity--Percentage
White--40.1%
Hispanic--25.7%
African-American--25.1%
Asian/Pacific Islander--8.6%
Native American--0.5%

About 50% of that 25.7% are illegals (~12.5%)

Dallas ISD (http://www.dallasisd.org/inside_disd/facts_stats/students.htm), just south of me:
* The district serves a 351-square-mile area and 11 municipalities.
* Almost 70 different languages are spoken in the homes of our students.
* About 161,000 students are enrolled for the 2003-2004 school year
Student Ethnic Composition (Districtwide):
eth--num--pct
Hispanic--98,858--62.6%
African American--47,901--30.3%
White--9,174--5.8%
Asian--1,619--1.0%
American Indian--507--0.3%

Again, about 50% of the 63% (~32%) are illegals, who are usually more expensive to teach due to language problems.

* Some bureacracies do not give out illegal alien stats due to the fact that the illegals make the agencies fat & happy.

----------

I do not hire illegals, period. While I was in high school & college, I dug ditches, installed sprinklers, installed landscaping, built fences, did tree removal, & more.

After buying my home, I have installed ~230' of wooden privacy fence, several landscape beds, mowed the lawn (nearly) every week during growing season, trimmed the trees back from the house and property lines, painted all but one room, installed appliances, installed 512sqft of pegboard on the garage walls, installed ~1000sqft of vinyl flooring, remodeled the guest bath (down to the studs & beams), installed tile surfacing on my kitchen countertops, and am in the process of installing 200' of picket fencing in the front yard.

So, tell me, gt3944, which of those jobs would YOU do? Or are tough, dirty jobs only for illegals and (fill_in_with_nasty_racial_term_of_your_choice)?

carlrodd
January 6, 2006, 01:04 PM
our eventual goal(many years hence) should be to have far more social and economic ties and binds to the rest of north america. it only makes sense. i understand that we have a long way to go to see eye to eye with both countries, both socially and economically, but we already have enough in common to make a start. it's a grave mistake to in ANY way isolate either country. canada is out of it's mind socially, and mexico is terribly violent and rather poor, but in 20 years time, after sincerely pursuing much closer relationships with each, i think you would see a power that no asian or european block could hold a candle to. mexico is VERY much open to a closer relationship with the US, and in time, with the right incentives, canada would come around as well. i even believe that their insanity when it comes to social issues could be massively tempered.

belton-deer-hunter
January 6, 2006, 01:06 PM
i have to agree greatly with you that is jsut the number of illegals at your hospital how many do you think there are in austin or san antonio or mabee waco, temple think of all of the time and money that we are paying to support them the grow it has even been proven in my area that whites are now a minority so if anything does go down then we are out numbered and to think that the mexicans in the armed services will not side with their own country is silly so we will need help

Camp David
January 6, 2006, 01:06 PM
As I predicted, violence will increase at border!

Watch the liberals blame this on Bush!

:rolleyes:

belton-deer-hunter
January 6, 2006, 01:08 PM
i know what needs to be done annex mexico they get the raises they want we get land and more taxes

carlrodd
January 6, 2006, 01:18 PM
whoever said something about mexicans in the military siding with "their own country"....that is ridiculous and fanciful. first of all, do you even know many mexicans that are in this country? secondly, have you ever served with mexicans in the military, or served at all? generally, what sort of person do you think is drawn to the military that they would do such a thing. silly comments. the large majority of mexicans i know are hard-working, VERY family oriented, and enjoy simple lives. the mexican children in my school are some of the most well behaved, and easily the most well behaved of all the hispanic children. mexico's government is corrupt and is responsible for all of these misconceptions about the actual people. the reason the government is a mess, is because they are acting out in response to being the little red-headed stepchild to the US. our policies with mexico are ill concieved. we should be ignoring china and throwing all of our money and priviledged relationships toward mexico.

i'm not saying the US is responsible for the problems that mexico has, but we could easily, in time, erase many of those problems by bringing them up to speed. if any country deserves exclusive relations with us, it's mexico.

shermacman
January 6, 2006, 01:24 PM
gt3944
What weird challenge...
According to the US Government Bureau of Prisons http://www.bop.gov/ 28.8 percent of the Federal prison population is now illegal aliens.
Currently at the Plymouth Count House of Corrections, Massachusetts, over 40 percent of the inmates are in under the control of ICE. That is a huge burden on tax paying citizens and on legal immigrants.

belton-deer-hunter
January 6, 2006, 01:35 PM
whoever said something about mexicans in the military siding with "their own country"....that is ridiculous and fanciful. first of all, do you even know many mexicans that are in this country? secondly, have you ever served with mexicans in the military, or served at all? generally, what sort of person do you think is drawn to the military that they would do such a thing. silly comments. the large majority of mexicans i know are hard-working, VERY family oriented, and enjoy simple lives. the mexican children in my school are some of the most well behaved, and easily the most well behaved of all the hispanic children. well i would like to know why they would not sie with thier own country i think that no matter what we say or do they are going to join mexico. that is why i am really weary about this it is jsut that they out number us in our own country ok. this scares me i dont know about yall but knowing that i cant walk down the street without a group or two of them staring at me and speaking their foreign languge. and you know that they are talking about you.


next]
the mexican children in my school are some of the most well behaved, and easily the most well behaved of all the hispanic children
we around here they have done nothing but cause problems my 13 year old brother noticed this when one started to mess with him and guess what one is never a fair fight it is always 10 or 12 to one yeah. then they come by my house and start to throw rocks and next they start walking their pitbulls by my house. i dont know what town you live in but here they are caught up in the gangster life style

gt3944
January 6, 2006, 01:35 PM
Umm, I don't know what article you just read but the one I read had Mexicans shooting at US Border Patrol agents, not Americans shooting at people illegally crossing the border. Also, I don't see where I, or anyone else here, has advocated shooting people crossing the border. :rolleyes:

"That incident came on the same day a Border Patrol agent fatally shot a teenage Mexican immigrant as he crossed the border near San Diego on December 30, triggering widespread anger in Mexico and calls for a full investigation."

Biker
January 6, 2006, 01:43 PM
"That incident came on the same day a Border Patrol agent fatally shot a teenage Mexican immigrant as he crossed the border near San Diego on December 30, triggering widespread anger in Mexico and calls for a full investigation."
Apparantly the deceased was threatening the BP agent with a rock. That is significant.
Biker
:rolleyes:

carlrodd
January 6, 2006, 01:45 PM
belton i'm not sure where you live, but i understand that things might be different there. i am from the philadelphia area, and we have a large mexican population as well, but they are far from hostile in the way you are describing. nonetheless, our policies are poor when it comes to mexico. we are at a point where we are attempting to forcibly contain the immigration problem, while still half-heartedly befriending the mexican government and people. it's like sending two completely different messages. we want their resources and trade, but we don't want to bring their economic and infrastructural development up to our own speed. until we set about doing that, we will have to deal with the reality that many mexicans would rather live in the states than in their own country. i believe if we did what i just mentioned, there would be a massive down-surge in the mexican populations in the states, and that the mexican portion of the immigration problem would dissipate. the same is true for all the latin-american countries, but mexico is our next-door neighbour, and our method of being neighbourly is confused and flawed.

belton-deer-hunter
January 6, 2006, 01:59 PM
well i dont know how many make their way up there but here in texas i can not turn my head without seeing one so i doubt there are s many up north as down here

gt3944
January 6, 2006, 02:00 PM
I see that this is going nowhere...but you know what there are no such things or people as Americans except the AMERICAN INDIANS...oh for the dumb comment about mexican soldiers joining mexico during a war...well, im not mexican, but I am Colombian...a Colombian sargeant of the USMC..I swore oath to this country..and ill defend it with my life..not become a turncoat if war ever arises with colombia
:fire:

belton-deer-hunter
January 6, 2006, 02:10 PM
i am talking about mexican immagrants not jsut plain ordanary people i have been talking to people about this topic and a local mexican man told me that if i thought they would not defend their mother country that i was stupid
so that is what i am going by and it does make sense

Biker
January 6, 2006, 02:11 PM
I see that this is going nowhere...but you know what there are no such things or people as Americans except the AMERICAN INDIANS...oh for the dumb comment about mexican soldiers joining mexico during a war...well, im not mexican, but I am Colombian...a Colombian sargeant of the USMC..I swore oath to this country..and ill defend it with my life..not become a turncoat if war ever arises with colombia
:fire:
a) You're wrong about the Indians. America as a country didn't exist then, *We the citizens are Americans*.
b) Are you a Columbian or an American? An important distinction...
Biker

gt3944
January 6, 2006, 02:26 PM
I could not betray a country were Ive been raised,taught,respected,and that I love and admire..if Im ever put in the position to choose, Im American...

shermacman
January 6, 2006, 02:29 PM
the reason the government is a mess, is because they are acting out in response to being the little red-headed stepchild to the US. our policies with mexico are ill concieved.

BWAHAHHAHAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!! That is hysterical! It is our fault!

belton-deer-hunter
January 6, 2006, 02:32 PM
that seems to be the newest world wide policy iof it goes wrong blame america

carlrodd
January 6, 2006, 02:37 PM
BWAHAHHAHAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!! That is hysterical! It is our fault!



thanks for reading the rest of the post. i specifically said it was NOT the USs fault. the mexican govt is responsible for its own shortcomings. that however does not mean that our government has not contributed to the problem.

longeyes
January 6, 2006, 02:40 PM
we are at a point where we are attempting to forcibly contain the immigration problem, while still half-heartedly befriending the mexican government and people. it's like sending two completely different messages. we want their resources and trade, but we don't want to bring their economic and infrastructural development up to our own speed. until we set about doing that, we will have to deal with the reality that many mexicans would rather live in the states than in their own country. i believe if we did what i just mentioned, there would be a massive down-surge in the mexican populations in the states, and that the mexican portion of the immigration problem would dissipate. the same is true for all the latin-american countries, but mexico is our next-door neighbour, and our method of being neighbourly is confused and flawed.

Maybe if the 47 Families would stop sending their money out of the country to offshore banks things would improve domestically in Mexico? Maybe if Mexico's economy weren't intimately entwined with the narcotics trade? Maybe if Mexico cared about educating its people?

It's not for a lack of money and resources. As always it comes back to values.

carlrodd
January 6, 2006, 02:41 PM
that seems to be the newest world wide policy iof it goes wrong blame america


just because that is the standard response of most other countries these days, i.e. canada blaming us for its gun violence, it doesn't mean that americans should adopt an equally brain dead attitude that holds that we are blameLESS. being critical of certain aspects of foreign policy, for instance, does not make someone unpatriotic, or place them in the camp of other countries that would rather blame others than look within.

belton-deer-hunter
January 6, 2006, 02:43 PM
that is why i dont like computers you cant type with sarcasim

carlrodd
January 6, 2006, 02:52 PM
Maybe if the 47 Families would stop sending their money out of the country to offshore banks things would improve domestically in Mexico? Maybe if Mexico's economy weren't intimately entwined with the narcotics trade? Maybe if Mexico cared about educating its people?

It's not for a lack of money and resources. As always it comes back to values.

i agree with you. people, countries, govts whatever, are responsible for their own actions and the resulting consequences. but there are observable, not excusable, but observable reasons that they ended up that way. we can't fix the world, but we can help address the concerns of what should be our closest ally. drug traffic is bad. substandard education is bad. let's help. or are you of the opinion that we should just let friends flounder? if the idea of decency toward close neighbours doesn't appeal to you, consider what we stand to gain from an economically strong and socially stable country to the south, with whom we might have a sterling relationship.

Biker
January 6, 2006, 02:55 PM
i agree with you. people, countries, govts whatever, are responsible for their own actions and the resulting consequences. but there are observable, not excusable, but observable reasons that they ended up that way. we can't fix the world, but we can help address the concerns of what should be our closest ally. drug traffic is bad. substandard education is bad. let's help. or are you of the opinion that we should just let friends flounder? if the idea of decency toward close neighbours doesn't appeal to you, consider what we stand to gain from an economically strong and socially stable country to the south, with whom we might have a sterling relationship.
It's a thin line that seperates friends from parasites.
Biker

carlrodd
January 6, 2006, 03:01 PM
It's a thin line that seperates friends from parasites.
Biker


fair enough, but we've done more to treat that country like a natural resource than a friend. why would they do anything different in return?

odysseus
January 6, 2006, 03:09 PM
It's not the point of why we should help. It is a question of how. Basically Mexico needs a stronger middle class, and their system is not geared to work in this way thus far. This is a huge socioeconomic issue, one which is mostly theirs to solve and us to assist where we can.

However bottomline, illegal immigration should not be a part of this. It is a weakness in our system to allow this, and rationalizing this as help is a terrible message to communicate. Again, we have legal immigration and work visa programs. It is offensive to those who use the system legally and wait through this. If people want to help, we must do it in the systems we have - or feel free to personally donate to people or causes as you choose. Embracing illegal immigration and not being strong on the subject embraces agenda's which are not a part of real long term solutions to this issue.

i agree with you. people, countries, govts whatever, are responsible for their own actions and the resulting consequences. but there are observable, not excusable, but observable reasons that they ended up that way. we can't fix the world, but we can help address the concerns of what should be our closest ally. drug traffic is bad. substandard education is bad. let's help. or are you of the opinion that we should just let friends flounder? if the idea of decency toward close neighbours doesn't appeal to you, consider what we stand to gain from an economically strong and socially stable country to the south, with whom we might have a sterling relationship.

longeyes
January 6, 2006, 03:09 PM
Should we encourage Mexico's economy? Yes. The problem is, as we have noted in the past with well-intentioned foreign aid and/or investment, is that the monies simply reinforce the existing social structure with all its problems. We want progress in Mexico, not revolution: that means a republican government with respect for individual liberties. What we don't want--but may well get--is a revolution that brings a leftwing government that is even more inimical to American values than the current crowd. We don't want a Cuba at our southern border. There's a failure of imagination in our own policies in terms of inspiring progressive economic development down south. We need to open up Mexican markets more than we have. The values, though, are the real problem: a culture built on la mordida is never going to be a prosperous, peaceful neighbor. How do we change that? Pay me the big bucks and I'll tell you.

odysseus
January 6, 2006, 03:11 PM
And so have they treated us a a resource too. It's a two way street.

fair enough, but we've done more to treat that country like a natural resource than a friend. why would they do anything different in return?

Gunpacker
January 6, 2006, 03:16 PM
gt3944, we are all affected. We pay higher taxes for schools, medical costs, and other tax supported programs that illegals have access to. Many more jobs will fall into the "jobs that Americans won't do" because pay is lowered to the amount that an illegal will accept. Laborers in all walks of life have had their wages diminish because of illegals willing to do them at low wages. What do you expect untrained Americans to do. Some have to do menial jobs, because we sure can't support half the population on welfare. SOMEBODY has to work, and even the high tech jobs are going overseas because they can get it done cheaper there. Those that blithely sit by with their head in the sand while we go deeper and deeper into the doo, are not very clever. There will come a day, (way too soon, I'm afraid) when Americans may be happy to have a fruit picking job. Then we can compete with the illegals to see who will work for the least while the multinational corporations that are the employers wait to reap the rewards.

Pilgrim
January 6, 2006, 03:18 PM
I see that this is going nowhere...but you know what there are no such things or people as Americans except the AMERICAN INDIANS.
Are you sure of this?
Kennewick Man (http://www.kennewick-man.com/)

shermacman
January 6, 2006, 03:19 PM
we should be ignoring china and throwing all of our money and priviledged relationships toward mexico.
i'm not saying the US is responsible for the problems that mexico has, but we could easily, in time, erase many of those problems by bringing them up to speed. if any country deserves exclusive relations with us, it's mexico.
I did read the rest of your post. You contradict yourself, your analysis suggesting that we ignore China is absurd and no, we can not bring Mexico up to our standards. It is not our fault, it is not our responsibility. Only Mexico can bring itself up to our standards. And they have choosen not to.

carlrodd
January 6, 2006, 03:24 PM
And so have they treated us a a resource too. It's a two way street.



that's what i was saying...it's reciprocal. i agree illegal imigration is not acceptable, and supporting illegal immigrants is insanity. i am also not advocating thug governments that steal the hope for decent lives from the people. i'm simply saying that the US has not done much to help the problem. if you think we should not be helping in the first place, that's your entitled opinion. my opinion is that it only makes sense to find ways to support positive socioeconomic development in THAT country. not all countires, specifically that one.

odysseus
January 6, 2006, 03:29 PM
There is a point to that. The longterm effects of continued low level workforce feeds into this country and what this means to the middle class in America. Essentially it's an experiment continuing to be played out. We all know that the economic boom that occured vastly helped those in the higher part of the curve economically, while those who were on the lower part of the curve did not grow as much. Hence the poorer are getting poorer.

Some here have actually said look, we need illegal immigration so I can still have cheap fruit. Are we artificially trying to keep certain markets below economic equilibrium? At what cost? The impact of certain policies can show up much later in different ways. I am not an expert, and their are huge other variables to this. For example, I don't want to see US farms close, and cheap labor be may needed to make sure we protect our own food sources from global economics (don't we subsidize too?), but then we can legally give migrant work forces access to work here too.

Those that blithely sit by with their head in the sand while we go deeper and deeper into the doo, are not very clever. There will come a day, (way too soon, I'm afraid) when Americans may be happy to have a fruit picking job. Then we can compete with the illegals to see who will work for the least while the multinational corporations that are the employers wait to reap the rewards.

carlrodd
January 6, 2006, 03:35 PM
I did read the rest of your post. You contradict yourself, your analysis suggesting that we ignore China is absurd and no, we can not bring Mexico up to our standards. It is not our fault, it is not our responsibility. Only Mexico can bring itself up to our standards. And they have choosen not to.



why is ignoring china absurd. did i miss something when i was sleeping last nite? did china all the sudden become a nation that values civil rights, doesn't continuously pester or test neighbours flaunting it's nuclear capabilities, doesn't hang on to a ridiculously inneffective form of govt that alienates neighbours and keeps a bootheel on the heads of it's citizens, doesn't vote against every worthwhile initiative in the UN simply to thumb it's nose at the west.....and on and on and on. china deserves to be isolated, but we can't resist the cheap labour and cheap manufacturing. THAT's a contradiction. furthermore, china is not a neighbour.

on the other hand, mexico IS a neighbour. if we dedicated as much time and as many resources to considering how we could help OUR neighbour to get itself straightened out, many of these problems being discussed would abate.

odysseus
January 6, 2006, 03:37 PM
if you think we should not be helping in the first place, that's your entitled opinion. my opinion is that it only makes sense to find ways to support positive socioeconomic development in THAT country. not all countires, specifically that one.

Not sure if you were directing that at me or not. Again, I don't think it is a question if we should not help or not. We should. But the question is how.

And often I hear from those soft on illegal immigration from Mexico that we need to help. However it is never put forth of how, with the silence on illegal immigration being too loud to bare - as though allowing this is part of their solution.

RaggedClaws
January 6, 2006, 03:39 PM
but mexico is our next-door neighbour, and our method of being neighbourly is confused and flawed.
I've said it before, and I'll say it again: good fences make good neighbors.

carlrodd
January 6, 2006, 03:47 PM
Not sure if you were directing that at me or not. Again, I don't think it is a question if we should not help or not. We should. But the question is how.

And often I hear from those soft on illegal immigration from Mexico that we need to help. However it is never put forth of how, with the silence on illegal immigration being too loud to bare - as though allowing this is part of their solution.

mexico has needs economically. start by identifying the specifics of those needs, and offer assistance contingent upon certain demands on our part. those demands would address needed reforms within the mexican government, assistance with the immigration problem, and helping us get a handle on the drug trade. mexico has a booming drug trade because it's good business. but there are better businesses. we can offer to help develop them so that drugs are a less lucrative option. anyone who is soft on illegal immigration would probably advocate bringing mexico to it's feet at no cost to them. i'm all for holding them accountable. if offered legitimate incentives, that govt will come around.

also, i wasn't directing that comment at you. someone before said we have no business helping.....which is nonsense.....and all fine and good till we need help ourselves.

longeyes
January 6, 2006, 03:47 PM
The way to help any "neighbor" is to stick to your core principles and values. In the case of Mexico that means rejecting illegal immigration and refusing to subsidize their oligarchy. You have to use the leverage and power you have. With China it would mean not endorsing practices in that nation that restrict liberty, as, I read today, Microsoft is doing by aiding and abetting the suppression of free speech by shutting down a dissident website.

No one guarantees us cheap fruit, and we should not permit our nation to crumble for it.

belton-deer-hunter
January 6, 2006, 03:48 PM
i think we are missing the point yes getting their socity back up to where it should be is a concern but we have to treat mexico like we did iraq. once we have control they cna ewlect new officals and ith our help they will gradullay start to build their selves back up but first we have to stop the problem at hand. which is illegal immagration.


the best way i can think to simplfly it is to say "i care about mexico but america comes first"

carlrodd
January 6, 2006, 03:53 PM
long eyes and odysseus, thanks for the thoughful posts. i agree with sticking to core values....we clearly do not do this nearly enough....you might even say we are having trouble remembering what they are. we also need to be realistic about human nature. most people won't change if there is no incentive to. offer incentives that are attainable only if the government addresses it's shortcomings.

carlrodd
January 6, 2006, 03:56 PM
i think we are missing the point yes getting their socity back up to where it should be is a concern but we have to treat mexico like we did iraq. once we have control they cna ewlect new officals and ith our help they will gradullay start to build their selves back up but first we have to stop the problem at hand. which is illegal immagration.


the best way i can think to simplfly it is to say "i care about mexico but america comes first"


are you suggesting that we use our military to force change in mexico?

LAK
January 7, 2006, 08:00 AM
whoever said something about mexicans in the military siding with "their own country"....that is ridiculous and fanciful. first of all, do you even know many mexicans that are in this country? secondly, have you ever served with mexicans in the military, or served at all? generally, what sort of person do you think is drawn to the military that they would do such a thing. silly comments. the large majority of mexicans i know are hard-working, VERY family oriented, and enjoy simple lives. the mexican children in my school are some of the most well behaved, and easily the most well behaved of all the hispanic children. mexico's government is corrupt and is responsible for all of these misconceptions about the actual people. the reason the government is a mess, is because they are acting out in response to being the little red-headed stepchild to the US. our policies with mexico are ill concieved. we should be ignoring china and throwing all of our money and priviledged relationships toward mexico.

i'm not saying the US is responsible for the problems that mexico has, but we could easily, in time, erase many of those problems by bringing them up to speed. if any country deserves exclusive relations with us, it's mexico.
Might be referring to me.

Yes; I have met, known, know, and work with many Americans of hispanic lineage. I have met many Mexicans, here and in Mexico. And it is clear from your comments that you are blissfully unaware of the extent of corruption and organized crime within, around or otherwise connected to the Mexican government and it's agencies.

And yes, I've done my military service thank you
---------------------------------------------

http://ussliberty.org
http://ssunitedstates.org

PCGS65
January 7, 2006, 08:21 AM
thats another story which you have to take up with the people hiring them so that they can lower wages(mainly the money hungry employers)...but to say its ok to shoot them when crossing the border, I dont think is right....
gt3944 when illegals are shooting at our border patrol to get here illegally, and by the way shooting at US border patrol is illegal also. Then tell them to stop putting their lives and US border patrol lives in danger by shooting their way across the border.
After all the US border patrol isn't shooting their way into mexico their simply defending themself, and that's right.

Silent-Snail
January 7, 2006, 10:26 AM
One question all the people in here complaining;I really want to know....how many of you all, have been affected by the people crossing the border to come do the jobs none of you all want to do...well come on speak up let me hear it...

Me.

Just because I dont want to work somewhere it doesn't mean I won't try to get one. So There:cuss:

armoredman
January 7, 2006, 10:51 AM
The prison system in Arizona has many many Mexican nationas, so many we have separate units of nothing BUT Pisas. The tensions caused between the nationals and Mexican Americans is always a match ready to strike. A couple of units got locked down for weeks last year due to disturbances between the nationals and MAs. These are not illegal humbly crossing the border looking for work - these are vicious criminals looking to rob, rape, and kill. Look at your own state prison records - public knowledge - and see what the percentage of Mexican Nationals is in YOU system.
We tried to work with Mexico, build a jointly run prison inside Mexico, and they screamed it was a deadly insult, and wouldn't hear any more.

Kodiaz
January 7, 2006, 11:19 AM
My job is affected by illegal immigration. I'm an A/C man I grew in the trade and that's why it became my career. But illegals are used to do installations and they pay them nothing. So american installers had to leave the trade because they couldn't make a decent living as an installer and didn't have the skills or training to be a service mechanic. Because the illegals make nothing it holds down my wages. Unfortunately for you people with the brains to fix a busted A/C unit heater or boiler have the same kind of problem solving ability as a computer guy. So the people that become technicians now are of much lower intelligence and class. It's amazing how many people I meet in the trade now that look like punk rockers, or are convicts, or just have no clue how an A/C system works. Which really means you just get inferior service. And A/C is a hard trade you have to know a ton of stuff to be good anyway. You have to bust your hump and you have to put up with customers whining. But here's the kicker you have to be ON CALL. When your on call you can't do anything because that phone can ring any minute and then you have to go run a call so you give up your freedom for a week at a time. Which is why A/C service techs are getting harder and harder to find. Have fun if your A/C breaks

SCI
January 7, 2006, 01:05 PM
One question all the people in here complaining;I really want to know....how many of you all, have been affected by the people crossing the border to come do the jobs none of you all want to do...well come on speak up let me hear it...



well i have been affected by paying tax's to support the ppl who SHOULD be doing the work
my feeling is its a welfare problem not an immigration one

Art Eatman
January 7, 2006, 01:21 PM
Until the Mexicans themselves change their socio-economic structure, there's nothing any outsider can do to improve things there. Until the Mexicans themselves change their body of law, there's nothing any outsider can do to improve things there.

The whole package that is Mexico is inhibitory for the creation of an economic middle class. As shown in Europe, the U.S. and Canada, it's the middle class that makes a country work.

Mexico has oil, timber, fertile lands, precious metals and a work force with a strong work ethic. The assets are there. That's fact. So, what else besides what I've mentioned above can be the cause of the exodus? It's sure as heck not the behavior of other countries.

Art

longeyes
January 7, 2006, 01:46 PM
Mexico needs a middle-class, and we need to practice tough love, otherwise they'll never have the incentive to develop one. Allowing millions of their people to come here, depress our wages, send billions of dollars back home, and still feel "Mexican" is no solution--for either country. Would that we had a President and Congress that put America's needs first and realized that forcing Mexico to stand on its own and solve its own problems is the most neighborly thing we can do for them.

wingman
January 7, 2006, 01:47 PM
The whole package that is Mexico is inhibitory for the creation of an economic middle class. As shown in Europe, the U.S. and Canada, it's the middle class that makes a country work.


Exactly Art, and that is my concern for this country, freedom lies within
the middle class.

roo_ster
January 8, 2006, 09:25 PM
gt3944 wanted to know about folks who were taking it in the face due to the presence of illegal aliens.

Health Care Costs
Most the pro-socialized medicine/gov't insurance types trot out the "40 million without health insurance" statistic.

Well, given that there are an estimated 10-20 million illegals in this country, 1/4 to 1/2 of those uninsured folks are illegal aliens.

They cost taxpayers when they go to county hospitals and they cost all of us when they go to private hospitals. You can cut here, economize there, and streamline over there until the cows come home. But, if some significant group rolls in, consumes large amounts of health care, and doesn't pay, the costs are passed on to us (by way of higher insurance premiums if we don't pay cash).

How This Effects Real Families
We have a couple that my wife has known since high school. He has a BA in music & Ed, She has a MA in Ed. She is currently raising their three children. Unfortunately, his job's (public school teacher) health insurance is unaffordable, so it covers only him. They would like to have another child (they are terrific folks & parents by any measure, save marxist & anti-American measures--their three kids demonstrate this). They likely will not be ale to have that fourth child, even though she has never had a pregnancy-related complication.

So, we let in illegals who use up our healthcare dollars and birth their children on our dime at the same time those very illegals help make it harder for Americans to get health care and have kids.

No Emergency Rooms in Border Counties
Like the bold face says, try to find an ER in a border county in Texas. The closest labor & delivery dept is several hours north in Midland.

Emergency Room Triage
Given that:
1. ERs have a finite capacity
2. ERs perform triage when that capacity is exceeded
3. Illegals use our ERs out of proportion to their numbers

You can draw the conclusion that some Americans die during the triage process due to the presence of illegals.

longeyes
January 8, 2006, 09:32 PM
It comes to this: It is time we showed "compassion" for our own citizens and taxpayers. Politicians who don't get this need to be shown the door.

JAMES77257
January 8, 2006, 09:37 PM
If they would come and work and be productive members of society I wouldn't care, but they spray paint on our walls, steal from us, drive drunk ( and get away with it because they are not citizens ), throw ????ty diapers in our streets, abuse our system, and live like ????ing savages. I've watched my nice town go to ???? in the past 15 years. Come live in my town and tell me they should be able to come here.:fire:

Don Gwinn
January 8, 2006, 10:34 PM
Profanity is not acceptable here. . . and profanity caught by the forum software is not much better. Might as well moderate your tone; we're not having a fight here.

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