I hate being right about NOLA


PDA






Cosmoline
January 6, 2006, 02:19 PM
But I told you so

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=155177

September 8th, 2005, 12:51 AM
My theory--He's a guy with a big plan. Clear everyone out of the city. Get tons of federal $$ to play with. Declare the city uninhabitable by decree. Seize the land without compensation, since no compensation need be paid for land that is uninhabitable and condemned. Bulldoze it. Use the federal money to build his own Sim City.

And from the news today:

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/nation/3569952.html

NEW ORLEANS The city says 5,500 buildings may need to be torn down because hurricane-related damage has made them unsafe, but many black residents worried that their homes will be demolished without their consent.
---

The lesson--NEVER LET THEM FORCE YOU OUT. Because they sure aren't doing it for your health. Once you're out, you're out. You can protest on the edge, you can sue, you can scream and yell. But unless you are in your house you can forget about saving it.

If you enjoyed reading about "I hate being right about NOLA" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
seansean
January 6, 2006, 02:31 PM
does it seem so crazy now, that this was the plan of some people behind the scenes all along? Katrina created a perfect cover for a land grab. Move the people out, scatter them to the 4 winds and never let them back in. That's exactly what's happening.

shermacman
January 6, 2006, 02:36 PM
does it seem so crazy now, that this was the plan of some people behind the scenes all along? Katrina created a perfect cover for a land grab. Move the people out, scatter them to the 4 winds and never let them back in. That's exactly what's happening.
Uh, dude, do you care to elaborate on this? I am adjusting my tinfoil hat in anticipation...

Cosmoline
January 6, 2006, 02:42 PM
I don't think anyone blew the levee, but what they DID do was shunt the poor to the lowest lying areas of the town and neglect to improve the flood controls there. Nature then took her course, and now the government gets to do what it could NEVER have done before Katrina--kick out the unwanted from the bad parts of town and bulldoze their homes.

Certainly, the powers that be in New Orleans had a plan from early on in the relief efforts to force everyone out at gunpoint. The intensity of these plans always bugged me. It was like shooting someone in the forehead to cure a headache. But it all makes sense if you realize you're dealing with one of the most deeply corrupt and cynical municipal governments in the US. These are very bad men. The plan all along has been to clear out the 9th ward and other low-income areas at gunpoint and send in the bulldozers, destroying the homes before anyone can stop them and without having to pay a dime in compensation. All the while Nagin is begging for more federal money in DC.

Camp David
January 6, 2006, 02:50 PM
Cosmoline: I noted a few issues in your last post....

I don't think anyone blew the levee, but what they DID do was shunt the poor to the lowest lying areas of the town and neglect to improve the flood controls there. .You better check the housing deeds on most of the single-family homes in the lower 9th Ward... most of them are (were) rentals!!! These were being rented by low income folks on welfare. CNN had a big story on this a few weeks back...Although some homes were outright owned, most were rentals and tenets left, leaving owner holding the bag...As far as "shunt the poor to the lowest lying areas" please provide evidence... folks on welfare live in city's poorest area... if they wish to move uptown they are free to do so, but they need to work hard to do so...There were no chains holding anyone in 9th Ward!

Nature then took her course, and now the government gets to do what it could NEVER have done before Katrina--kick out the unwanted from the bad parts of town and bulldoze their homes.

I support your general rant about evicting homeowners; but what is city to do? If these homes are empty, they should be bulldozed. Remaining homes (those with people still living in them) should be purchased by city, then bulldozed....Do you have any idea how bad this area smells with rotting homes block after block...rodents and insects....

The 9th Ward needs to be raised in elevation somehow... but as it stands now entire area is a hazard... it should be bulldozed...legal owners should be compensated... but it is a blight to leave as is....

Cosmoline
January 6, 2006, 02:55 PM
The city is to respect ownership rights. If the properties are damaged, the owners can either get insurance to pay for the repairs or repair them themselves. If the city wants to condemn a property, it must sue that property specifically by lot and block number, serve notice on the owner and PROVE IN COURT that its continued existence poses a threat to the public health. Or the city can exercise emminent domain and force all the owners to sell their property to it. The governmnet does have that power. What it CANNOT DO to do is send in the bulldozers without any due process or payment to the owners and just level everything.

THE CITY IS NOT THE PROPERTY OWNER--THE CITY CANNOT EVICT HOMEOWNERS! The very notion of the state "evicting" you from your own home and bulldozing it without buying your property through forced sale or proving your specific house poses a threat to life and limb of others is abhorent to the most basic notion of property rights and in direct violation of the 5th Amendment! IT IS THE ACTION OF A TYRANT WHO DOES NOT GIVE A WETSLAP ABOUT PROPERTY RIGHTS OR CIVIL RIGHTS.

There is NO EXCUSE for what the city of New Orleans is trying to do. They are rank, corrupt and vile animals--wellfare scam artists on a scale no 9th ward crack head could even begin to match. They need to be beaten down and kicked out of office--and I sincerely hope the feds don't give them a dime to play with. Ray Nagin should be kicked in the teeth and dumped in the Gulf.

Camp David
January 6, 2006, 03:21 PM
Now you are just ignoring reality!!!

If the properties are damaged.
If? The entire area was buried for weeks by flood! If? Did you not see the pictures? If? C'mon....

If the city wants to condemn a property, it must sue that property specifically by lot and block number, serve notice on the owner and PROVE IN COURT that its continued existence poses a threat to the public health..Do you know how long this would take? We are talking decades here with normal legal schedule...

Or the city can exercise emminent domain and force all the owners to sell their property to it. .I recommend it do just this, right now, and get it done.

...and I sincerely hope the feds don't give them a dime to play with...Too late... the Feds already committed $billions to New Orleans...

Ray Nagin should be kicked in the teeth and dumped in the Gulf.I agree with you on this, but for different reasons.

Cosmoline
January 6, 2006, 03:35 PM
Well you hit the nail on the head--eminent domain powers were given to the state for just this sort of problem. If the government feels it would take to long to sue each property in rem try to condemn it for public health reasons, the government has the power to BUY the land. Which is exactly what it should do here if it wants the property. What it cannot do is just send in the bulldozers on its own authority with no due process. That's the time to camp out on your roof with lawyers, guns and money.

I do find it ironic, though perhaps not surprising, that the same militia types who rushed in to prevent exercise of eminent domain around an airport have been silent when it comes to defending property rights in the 9th ward.

seansean
January 6, 2006, 03:36 PM
Uh, dude, do you care to elaborate on this? I am adjusting my tinfoil hat in anticipation...
really...I didn't say anything about a govt. conspiracy or explosives on the levee did I? My point is simply that some developers, and politicians in NOLA are using katrina to do what they've wanted to do for a long time anyway, get the poor people out of the way and make some money. That's all I'm saying.

Cosmoline
January 6, 2006, 03:39 PM
Who needs explosives when nature gives you a Class V. Everyone saw this disaster coming. Everyone knew what would happen. They just decided the benefits of the flood (clearing out the poor neighborhoods) would outweigh the short term costs.

Camp David
January 6, 2006, 03:53 PM
They just decided the benefits of the flood (clearing out the poor neighborhoods) would outweigh the short term costs.

This may be your opinion but you have no facts to back it up...high price housing in New Orleans was also damaged... how do you explain that?

Or, asked another way, I don't suppose it ever occurred to you to blame the Force 3 Hurricane for the damge in New Orleans and blame a large majority of ignorant residents for tearing up the city with looting and blame the police for being AWOL???

You actually believe they wanted the levees to fail?

How about this: Most of New Orleans should never have been built since most of it is in a flood plain zone and it is illegal to rebuild in a flood plain zone (yup...check the zoning laws)!!!!

JohnBT
January 6, 2006, 07:19 PM
"now the government gets to do what it could NEVER have done before Katrina"

Oh, I don't know about that, maybe they just weren't organized enough to get the job done. The City of Richmond bulldozed Fulton Bottom and other areas years ago. There's still nothing in Fulton Bottom. Now the new mayor, ex-Gov. Wilder, is talking about tearing down the projects that are scattered around town. Maybe he'll move them back to their bulldozed old neighborhoods. Time marches on and nothing much changes - around here anyway.

Well, the recently ousted ex-second-in-command at the city jail has just been reported to have been working 30 hours a week for the past year or three doing part-time security for the city at time-and-a-half = $60 an hour. I love the government.

John

Headless Thompson Gunner
January 6, 2006, 07:45 PM
There's nothing new about what's going to happen to these houses in New Orleans. Many of the flodded houses are a public health risk, and will only worsen if they aren't repaired or torn down. The mess needs to be cleaned up.

Property owners are obligated to maintain their properties such that they don't threaten their neighbors or their community. Hurricanes suck, but they don't relieve owners of this obligation. If you can't (or won't) begin to cleanup and repair your property, then the community is within its authority to do it for you.

You may not like this, and I can certainly understand your complaints. But it's not at all unexpected or unreasonable. There's no great conspiracy here. It's the way these things work.

DonP
January 6, 2006, 08:17 PM
IIRC, the local officials (state and local) blew off the Corps of Engineers recommendation to improve the levee systems to handle a Class 4 storm and channeled the Federal levee money off to other local pork barrel construction projects. (I believe Senator Landrieu's brothers own a major construction and paving company?) I'm from Chicago so I'm naturally suspicious I guess.

I think what happened is that the "elite's" decided to roll the dice and hope that nothing bigger than a class 3 ever hit the city ... and the poor folks lost.

Nobody "blew the levees" (in spite of Farrakhan's ranting) or engineered the flooding of the 9th ward, except by omission. The recent eminent domain decisions will make it easier to do urban renewal now. My bet is that a lot of very upscale high rises will go in now.

Just my best guess.

ken grant
January 6, 2006, 08:47 PM
Kinda dumb to build anything below sea level when it is almost surrounded by water:cuss:
Kinda against the law to fill in floodplains or wetlands(NOLA is wetlands). So wet that they have many pumps running trying to keep it dry:what:
Bulldoze the levies and let the water seek it's own level. Soon Nature will take over and clean up the land as well as re-build the barrier islands and marsh.

Cosmoline
January 6, 2006, 11:52 PM
This may be your opinion but you have no facts to back it up...high price housing in New Orleans was also damaged... how do you explain that?

How many high-priced houses is the city planning on tearing down without process or payment?

You actually believe they wanted the levees to fail?

Everyone knew they were going to. THey've known for decades. So either they were just lazy, or they didn't care enough to prevent it.

You're arguing on behalf of what may be the most corrupt, degenerate and downright evil city government the nation has never known. New Orleans government makes a cesspool look clean. Their cops are dirty, their polticians are dirty, and anyone with any power there is dirty.

The city certainly has the option of doing nothing and just letting the bulk of the place return to being a bayou. They have no legal obligation to stop the waters. But instead, they're planning on grabbing the land and using federal money to build some shiny new boondoggle on it. Every contractor in the city will make out like bandits, and when it floods again in ten years they'll make out like bandits again. Just you watch! It's your money, and they're going to have a big old crawdad roast with it.

mountainclmbr
January 7, 2006, 12:19 AM
The quest to conrol all means of production and own all property is never lost on the left. The word is "totalitarian control freak". Oppressive taxes and expansion of laws is just a means to an ends.

Headless Thompson Gunner
January 7, 2006, 12:24 AM
Do you have any evidence that homes will be taken without compensation?

Do you have any evidence that homes are being destroyed expressly for the purposes of building a "shiny new boondoggle"?

So far, all I see are some public officials who don't want the mess to fester any more than it already has. Cities have long held the authority to clean up or demolish structures which are in such poor condition that they threaten the community.

The fact that there are thousands of degenerate buildings in New Orleans that need to come down shouldn't surprise anyone. The fact that the city wants to clean them up also shouldn't surprise anyone.

The New Orleans city government is obviously incompetent. But I don't see any evidence to support charges of corruption. Would you please fill in the missing pieces that support your argument?

Cosmoline
January 7, 2006, 02:16 AM
Nagin is the one who decided he could kick people out of their homes by force of arms with no due process. Now he's declared he can bulldoze the same homes if HE decides they pose a danger to the public health. Read the newspaper articles about it. That's what folks are protesting, and rightly so.

We're talking about a city where most of the cops just left town when the trouble started, and the ones who remained engaged in extensive looting and criminal behavior. They do not deserve any power, let alone the power to rip down homes without process.

carebear
January 7, 2006, 04:04 AM
Actually the wealthy owner-occupants are the most likely to have maintained flood insurance (or other specialty coverage) and thus be able to afford to remediate or tear down/rebuild their own properties. Also, money means political influence, so the city has no need or ability to step in on any pretext.

Those who chose to pinch pennies (or didn't have them to pinch) and owned properties (resident or non-) that are now flood damaged are probably better off abandoning them versus trying to restore them to code, especially give the new "mold can kill you" litigation heaven.

If they abandon them and they are mortgaged, the bank owns them and can do what it wants. That means an auction or, more likely given the lack of investors and cost of making them even remotely a decent investment, turning ownership over to the taxing authority. If they are owned free and clear but the city taxes go into arrears and nothing is done to get a legal exemption, then the city can lien and foreclose on them. If the owners just write them off and walk away or die intestate then the city gets them anyway.

Either way, there's far more to be done to fix flooded homes than replace some wall board and repaint. Trying to get money to do it is now such high-risk (since the repair cost could probably only be covered by liening the property itself) the rates must be obscene. As a lender, I'm not giving you basically the rebuilding cost of a property that may end up condemned and/or at the same risk again with only that property to secure it.

Bottom line, it sucks to be poor. At a glance, there's very little in the way of conspiracy here, just economics. If you are poor, you get to live is crappier areas with poorer services. When trouble comes, you get screwed because you have fewer resources to prepare for it or to deal with it when it happens. Also, often you lack the knowledge and life experience to even realize such things need preparing for, even had you the means. Hereditary poverty has a massive sweep of consequences.

strambo
January 7, 2006, 04:16 AM
I was there in the 9th Ward. The houses that were flooded are a complete and total loss and an environmental nightmare. That water was the most horrid sludge I have ever seen. A rescue dog died after 20 mins exposure to it.

NO is horrendously corrupt. I don't know what the answer is...all I know is that the flooded houses DO need to be bulldozed regardless of who owned them. As far as what to do after and compensation? Mother Nature can be pretty unforgiving of cities built by silly men in river deltas below sea level.:uhoh:

PCGS65
January 7, 2006, 05:36 AM
Cosmoline, The city can use eminent domain as you mentioned,condeming is another and here's a third. City will say your property is worth $10 and hand them a check because after we tally the cost of cleanup you will owe us.
They can and will do what they want as you know. We will find out soon which option they choose.:fire:

poe_9999
January 7, 2006, 07:25 AM
legal owners should be compensated

Legal owners will be billed by the city for clean up fees.

Byron Quick
January 7, 2006, 09:44 AM
Everyone knew they were going to. THey've known for decades. So either they were just lazy, or they didn't care enough to prevent it.



The good people of Memphis, Tennessee are living within the area that experienced the most powerful earthquake that ever took place in America. The zone is quite active today with small quakes. The city, state, and federal governments are aware of the problem. The building codes don't reflect that knowledge.

The people of Memphis are also aware of this by and large. The people who live there are NOT-mostly-building to earthquake codes. Remember the saying: "Never attribute to malice what can be accounted for by stupidity?" New Orleans, San Francisco, Port Royal, Lisbon, Pompeii, Bangladesh, Indonesia, Sri Lanka...people who are born and raised in areas prone to natural disaster gamble with their lives. Often they lose. Simple fact of history that has happened over and over in every century under every known type of government.

Some of those houses in the 9th Ward are piles of rubble lying in the street or over against the neighboring lot's pile of rubble. Cosmoline, you honestly think that the taxpayers of this nation should pay to compensate these people? Can you wrap your mind around these concepts: unihabitable, unrepairable, health hazard, and public nuisance?

Land grabs? Sure:rolleyes: "Hey, I've got a good deal for you...bottom land."

I feel sorry for property owners in New Orleans. They, even the owners of the 'best' plots in the city, own worthless real estate as far as I'm concerned. You couldn't give it to me if I would then have to pay property taxes on it.

Folks, I check the weather forecasts rather thoroughly when I'm going to be driving through on I-10. I did before Katrina. Anyone with ordinary prudence knew that the city was a death trap. Give you a clue-it still is.

Legal owners will be billed by the city for clean up fees.
As they should be if they are so irresponsible as to not clean up their own property. The city government should also coutnersue the property owners who have sued to prevent the cleanup for the city's legal fees.

saltydog
January 7, 2006, 09:59 AM
Kinda dumb to build anything below sea level when it is almost surrounded by water:cuss:
Kinda against the law to fill in floodplains or wetlands(NOLA is wetlands). So wet that they have many pumps running trying to keep it dry:what:
Bulldoze the levies and let the water seek it's own level. Soon Nature will take over and clean up the land as well as re-build the barrier islands and marsh.

Thats a good post. We need to remember there are alot of dumb ass Americans buying property like that and alot of smart Land and Housing Developers reaping huge profits from dumb people. Look at people in ********** paying for property on Major Fault lines. God, I love a free economy!:D

Art Eatman
January 7, 2006, 02:03 PM
The idea of bulldozing New Orleans and its levees and go away just won't work. For the economy of the country, we're stuck with needing New orleans, or some equivalent city in that immediate area.

You can start with the importance of navigation on the Mississippi River; it's the export route for grains from the middle U.S. Indiana farmers need New Orleans. Raw materials are barged upriver to manufactories as far north as Chicago. Think "jobs". Then you can think "oil" and "refined products".

You can do all of New York's financial paperwork anywhere. Omaha is as good a place. But you can't find a substitute for the New Orleans location as an infrastructure for the most important port facilities in the U.S. These facilities' workforces and families are employed along a hundred-mile stretch of the Mississippi. Just like you, they have to have places to shop and play and live.

Which is why the feds are willing to spend tax dollars in the area. It's way too important to ignore. The issue is how to spend it on what, and how to avoid corruption and theft.

Art

rick_reno
January 7, 2006, 02:31 PM
The idea of bulldozing New Orleans and its levees and go away just won't work. For the economy of the country, we're stuck with needing New orleans, or some equivalent city in that immediate area.


I disagree - we need a port. The population of New Orleans prior to Katrina was 1.2 million people. Do we need 1.2 million people to support the port and it's operations? I don't think so.

antarti
January 7, 2006, 03:03 PM
Some of those houses in the 9th Ward are piles of rubble lying in the street or over against the neighboring lot's pile of rubble. Cosmoline, you honestly think that the taxpayers of this nation should pay to compensate these people? Can you wrap your mind around these concepts: unihabitable, unrepairable, health hazard, and public nuisance?

Land grabs? Sure "Hey, I've got a good deal for you...bottom land."

As somebody who both holds title to and pays taxes on submerged land, yes, in some cases it is both necessary and a good deal. Laws can get screwy where the land meets the water, and people who live on the interface between the two understand that better than people who don't, out of necessity if nothing else. If you want an excellent example, PM me.

Getting back to NOLA, the real question is, shouldn't the landowners be allowed to stand in front of a judge and put forth their plans and timetables for rebuilding before their land is bulldozed (at, ultimately, their own expense anyway)? If there are homeowners who have insured themselves (or are wealthy enough to have self-insured), then they should be allowed to rebuild or repair. Just who is Nagin that he has carte blanche to decide single-handedly what properties will be cleared and which won't?

I agree that Federal welfare shouldn't be involved, but there have to be cases where the landowners prepared properly, and shouldn't be punished for having done so. Those who didn't prepare, and can't secure funds to rebuild, have no right against the taxes of others.

If Nagin wants a speedy end to the mess, he should be working on conviening courts where the landowners could make clear their intentions, not trying to make his intentions a reality by fiat. Last I heard, there were no people with crowns and sceptres walking around this country, or at least none that were being taken seriously.

ken grant
January 7, 2006, 03:55 PM
what about the people who had insurance and want to re-build? They are not getting their insurance money for various reasons.
Seems as everytime I see La. politicians on the news,they are crying for more and more Fed. money and help.
When I see Miss. politicians on the news,they talk about how their people are helping themselves and not waiting for someone else to take care of them.

oldfart
January 7, 2006, 04:11 PM
Ray Nagin is just the most recent crook in a long line of crooked mayors of NO. If he told me the sun was going to rise in the east, I'd check the almanac before I made any plans.
I agree the 9th ward needs to be bulldozed but there are still legal requirements that the government agencies involved need to go through. To condemn a property, notice must be given to the owner and he must be given an opportunity to contest the condemnation. In most states, the notice is to be mailed to the owner and/or posted in a newspaper of general distribution. If the owner fails to contact the agency it is generally considered that he/she either does not care to contest it or cannot do so and the condemnation goes forward. Any monies to be paid to the owner are held in escrow until the owner claims them. If, as is probably the case here, the cost of cleaning up the property exceeds the amount held in escrow, that money reverts to the agency which can then sue the owner for the excess.
Any non-resident landowners in the 9th ward are probably scrambling to divest themselves of the property to avoid being billed for the cleanup costs.

Cosmoline
January 7, 2006, 05:36 PM
I disagree - we need a port. The population of New Orleans prior to Katrina was 1.2 million people. Do we need 1.2 million people to support the port and it's operations? I don't think so.

Not to mention the fact that other Gulf ports such as Panama City's are far more modern and have already taken up the post-Katrina shipping. It costs an enormous amount to keep the Mississippi open as a major shipping route, and it makes more ecomic sense these days to stop subsidizing it and just shifting to the rail and truck system upon landfall.

Art Eatman
January 7, 2006, 05:46 PM
Rick, whether it's 1.2 million or around 1/4 million is beside the point. It's the old real estate deal: Location, location, location.

Cosmo, Pannymaw City could never even begin to handle the volume of traffic that passes up and down the Mississippi just by barge, not even considering the freighters/tankers which are serviced in the ports along the river. Using a port in any other area of the Gulf Coast and then going to rail or truck wouldn't work, even if diesel were free. (I have visions of some poor devil in a semi, stuck on US 98 in Destin. :D) I-10 would be a 10mph parking lot...

Art

carebear
January 7, 2006, 05:58 PM
Or it could be zero Art. We no longer need to build residential areas right on top of industrial structures.

Most of the workers on the Slope in AK do so 2 on/2 off and fly in to work. They basically live in hotels while working.

There's zero reason to build homes anywhere in the tidal basin or along the lower river to house workers for a NO port. Build the homes 10-20-30 miles away on high inland ground and build the workers their own dang private road to work or provide busses or light rail or whatever else is enviro transport of the week.

Zero population at risk, 100% of the area available for the best use of port facilities, the rest remediated back to wild lands to help cushion further storms.

No city necessary, we don't need to house the Irish stevedores anymore.

Patera
January 7, 2006, 07:23 PM
New Orleans was built in an area that was once settled by Native Americans. They had their settlement on the area ABOVE sea level, i.e. the French Quarter. The city grew around that. New Orleans was being built before half of America was American. It's the Big Easy, the birthplace of Jazz, a very important port, as well as home to countless refineries and factories.

Lemme tell you something. Lousiana is poor. The only people that commute 30-40 miles to work in NO are those rich enough to live in Metarie, Mandeville, Covington, those towns right outside of New Orleans. And I mean rich. Mandeville's middle school was much larger and more bougie(boo-gee, short for bourgoisie, if I can spell correctly) than my high school.

Corrupt? You don't know the half of it. Present Governor Blankstare is remodelling the Governer's Mansion in Baton Rouge, using millions of tax dollars. The only decent governor in my recollection was Mike Foster. At least he used his own money to do the same thing. I know corruption is a part of politics, but at least have the decency to help the state as well as yourself. The Landrieus? :barf: :barf: . Cleo Fields? Let's just say I've encountered him before, at times with his wife and kids, and at times with his girlfriends ( I waited on them; not a good tipper, but not horrible either).

New Orleans: I love it and I hate it. I hate it at night. The only times I've ever had a gun pointed at me was in NO, walking across the street. I've heared horror tales of the OPP and the NOPD. There's nothing like the smell of urine, vomit, and nobody knows what else, steaming in the hot Louisiana humidity. I'll leave a NO Mardi Gras for the tourists.

I love it's historic importance. The French Quarter, with it's ageless apartments which were once homes to America's greatest literary and musical talents. The D-Day Museum. The greatest Jazz, blues, and zydeco you'll ever hear. THE BEST FOOD. You poor souls just don't know. The food alone will keep me in Louisiana till my last breath. Some of the friendliest folks around (as well as some of the worst). The home of the Saints and Hornets.

New Orleans will be rebuilt. Unfortunately, it'll be rebuilt by the same caliber of politicians Louisiana is known to produce. I don't have high hopes for it.

Sorry to rant. But I've seen people dismissing NO just because it's under sea-level. So what? The pumps have worked for decades, and only a relatively rare Category 5 aimed right between the eyes caused the levees to fail. Don't build under sea level. Don't build on fault lines (California). Don't build in tornado infested areas (midwest). Don't build in areas frequented by The tsunami in Indonesia penetrated how far into the land? Maybe we shouldn't build within XX miles of all coasts. Rant off...

Patera Silk

carebear
January 7, 2006, 07:52 PM
Build away.

Don't demand MY MONEY to rebuild it. :rolleyes:

Byron Quick
January 7, 2006, 08:42 PM
What carebear said.

There are only two areas, according to an article I once read, that are earthquake proof in the US. One is the part of Louisiana containing New Orleans. The other area was also on the coast and in danger from major hurricanes.

I live about a hundred miles from the Atlantic. A Category Four or Category Four hurricane coming in directly could do major damage in my area. But 3/4 of the state would be underwater before I had to worry about flooding.

In any event, I won't be running around to the government crying for money to replace the house I wanted to build on the slopes of a volcano. Lovely view, don't you know?:rolleyes:

KriegHund
January 7, 2006, 08:51 PM
THE CITY IS NOT THE PROPERTY OWNER--THE CITY CANNOT EVICT HOMEOWNERS!


As much as i hate to say it- yes, the city DOES own it. Somewhere in texas is the only place left that actually lets you own your property, not just live on it.
Even if you paid cash for your home, in the majoprity of states the city owns your property, and, under certain circumstances, may do with it as it wishes.

rlord
January 7, 2006, 10:15 PM
So many issues rolled up into one stinking dungball. NO is a GREAT city if you're looking at food, music, culture, history, etc. NO is an AWFUL city if you're looking at crime, government, taxes, weather, etc.

Can the utility of the MS river and the port be taken over by some other means? I have no idea. There may indeed by some reasons that the feds need to ensure the port remains in operation. On the other hand, I have no idea.

Are Nagin and Blanco wannabes? No doubt. Did they royally f### up this whole thing? Apparently so.

Is the real story of Katrina the flooding in New Orleans? Not in my opinion.

The bigger impact to lives and property is everywhere else on the Gulf Coast from Texas to Alabama which was affected by Katrina and/or Rita.

This thread isn't about those other areas and since this is a mostly firearms site, I think the most salient issue about NO and Katrina was the gun-grab by the city. In little over 100 years we've gone from Sheriff's deputizing a posse to maintain order to idiot pols stealing guns from law-abiding citizens when they need them the most. :banghead:

spacemanspiff
January 7, 2006, 10:16 PM
especially give the new "mold can kill you" litigation heaven.
hey now! i'll have no more disparaging talk about our precious mold and the way my industry excludes coverage for it! :D


cosmoline, while i am admittedly not up to speed on the situation involving the demolition/destruction of homes in NOLA, from an insurance standpoint, it really is a better economic solution for the city to assume all those costs/responsibilities.
put it to you this way, you have two bad choices. one involves you keeping your property and being responsible for its cleanup and rebuilding, or you walk away from it and let someone else worry about it.
the average property owner who is losing out wouldnt have the resources to do it anyways.

rick_reno
January 8, 2006, 12:46 AM
I was there in the 9th Ward. The houses that were flooded are a complete and total loss and an environmental nightmare. That water was the most horrid sludge I have ever seen. A rescue dog died after 20 mins exposure to it.


I find the rescue dog story a bit hard to believe. How do you know the toxic waste killed the dog? What was done with the dog post mortem to determine that this is what killed the dog? Did you put another dog in to verifty that's what killed it?

grampster
January 8, 2006, 01:41 AM
I loved the myth about "blowing up the levee's". The fact is that they were blown, but not in the customary way.

When over the years Billions of tax dollars were handed over to NO to build, repair, maintain, improve, etc, the system of levees and much of the money was rather diverted into the pockets of the greasy corrupt pockets of the area politicians, the clock started ticking on the time bomb. It just blew because the wind and water of Katrina shorted out the wires connected to the corruption bomb. I have to hand to those worms when they rose up in righteous indignation over hearing the new money would pass through federal auditors and not handed directly into their filthy palms. What is that called? Chutzpah?

telewinz
January 8, 2006, 07:47 AM
Yea, Right! The goverment is so good at planning on short notice (or even long term planning). Tin foil hat time:banghead:

I hate supporting the same people year after year. I rather help the true unfortunates that had the self-respect to be self supporting BEFORE disaster struck. Months later we are still housing the warefare recipients that were relocated from NO. Many have made it their life's "work" to live solely off of charity, their helplessness is self-imposed. If allowed they will still be living in government provided housing years from now. At my church's (free) food cupboard, one repeat "customer" complained that there wasn't enough meat available! I was willing to promote/endorse cannibalism as a solution at the time. I only give a "free-ride(?)" to one group of Americans...veterans! I don't feel sorry for the relocated residents of NO, I feel sorry for the communities that accepted them.

If you enjoyed reading about "I hate being right about NOLA" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!