gunbroker deal went sour... ideas?


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dakotasin
January 6, 2006, 07:02 PM
I just purchased on line a Weatherby AccuMark in 340 WM and am extremely disappointed. The rifle was advertised on "GunBroker" through a gun store, not a private party type sale. Brand new in box. The rifle was advertised as coming with the factory installed Accubrake. I have no desire to shoot a 340 WM without one. So of course, when I opened the package - no muzzle brake! It is brand new in box, all papers fine, so I presume someone shipping made a mistake. I've just sent e-mail to the store & will call tomorrow, but I'm hoping someone can help me do my homework.

I put the purchase on a credit card so stopping payment is not a problem. And there is no ambiguity. If anyone wants to go to GunBroker look up auction 41432244. Clearly says with Accubrake.

Now my best solution is that they have another is stock, I'll mail this back to them, they'll ship back to me & we're fine. I think they should pay for all shipping. I also think they should pay for the $60.00 I'm going to have to spend again to do CA transfer paperwork - anyone disagree?

I'm anticipating they will want to knock off some $$$ and have me keep this rifle. Fine by me. I think the amount they take should be equivilent to cost of Weatherby installing the Accubrake on the rifle PLUS shipping costs to & from factory. Anyone have experience dealing with Weatherby on this? Cost, turnaround time?

I presume if a brake is installed by anyone other than Weatherby the factory warranty will be voided - correct?

Thanks for your help.


the shop was bud's gunshop, and the situation has deteriorated to the point where bud's won't refund his money, nor will they give him a price break for the missing accubreak.

how to resolve?
http://www.baitshopboyz.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9720&PN=1

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EVIL5LITER
January 6, 2006, 07:23 PM
As someone who works for a small business, asking someone to pay for all the shipping back and forth and the transfer fee ($60.00?!?!?!) is a bit excessive.

He could have had what he wanted, but now he's just going to waste a bunch of time and money over $20 worth of shipping.

Brad Johnson
January 6, 2006, 07:27 PM
The gun shop screwed up. Why should the customer be out the money for the shop's obvious mistake? If you mess up, you own up. It's that simple.

Brad

xring44
January 6, 2006, 07:30 PM
I'll have to go with the Dakatosin on this one, he didn't get what he paid for, its not his fault someone messed up, I don't like paying for other peoples mistakes,,,I make enough of my own:)

dracphelan
January 6, 2006, 07:34 PM
The gun shop screwed up. Why should the customer be out the money for the shop's obvious mistake? If you mess up, you own up. It's that simple.

Brad

When you need to return something to a local store (purchased new, in an unopened box) do you demand that they refund your gas money? Would they do it if you did?

It always amazes me when people demand more from an online/mail order retailer than they would a local brick & mortar store. Now, sometimes they will offer free shipping one or both ways. But, they don't have to. This is a good reason to find out a companies return policies before ordering or bidding on something.

Brad Johnson
January 6, 2006, 07:43 PM
When you need to return something to a local store (purchased new, in an unopened box) do you demand that they refund your gas money? Would they do it if you did?

Would I? Yes, especially if it was $60 worth. Would they do it? Don't know. But they sure wouldn't get much more of my money if they didn't at least make the effort to make it right.

They made a mistake. Then they turned it into a problem when they tried to force the buyer pay for the mistake by charging a restock fee in addition to the transfer and shipping charges he was already out. Now they have their name plastered all over the internet as an untrustworthy seller.

As a business owner, ESPECIALLY a small business owner, it's worth the $60 to keep that kind of advertising from happening. It's better to have to sell one more gun to make up the difference than lose the sale of several guns from the bad word of mouth.

Brad

Brad

JohnBT
January 6, 2006, 07:47 PM
I don't think shipping costs can be compared to driving across town. I think the shop fouled up and needs to pay to fix their error.

John

thumper723
January 6, 2006, 07:57 PM
I agree. My roomate had a similar issue with a Motorcycle, the dealer called to tell him it was ready. I drove to San Antonio from Corpus Christi with him in my pickup (about 2-1/2 hour drive 1 way) and it had not even been started. It was warranty work on a brand new Ducati (expensive Italian bike) and they refused to reimburse the gas.

I feel that was justified to be asked for, since it was about $40 in gas at the time, nevermind our aggrivation and the scamming we had to do to get out of a flight to get there in time. Would have been a bit different if it was $5 and a half hour, although I would still have been pissed.

Dealer never got a single cent from him after that episode.

dakotasin
January 6, 2006, 07:59 PM
By the way, the gun store reneged on their offer. Their reason - get this - was that they post alot of stuff on Gun Broker and can't be expected to have it 100% accurate. They said I can return the thing but they'll subtract 20% - that's about $300.00 PLUS I'm out the FFL transfer cost of $70.00. Their add, their mistake - they expect me to eat the $$$?



http://www.baitshopboyz.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9720&PN=1

its more than just the shipping costs, though... i think in an event like this w/ blatant misinformation/deception, bud's should completely refund everything, except x-fer fees (it is out of their control who he x-fers thru)...

it just seems to me to be a blatantly bad way to do business...

jerkface11
January 6, 2006, 08:11 PM
I hate nothing more than to recieve something wrong/broken and have the seller insist that I pay for shipping to return THEIR screwup. This happened to me twice last year. With some reloading dies and a powder trickler. However when my HP printer broke HP sent me a new one and prepaid box to ship the old one back to them in. The little guy probably stays little for a reason.

waterhouse
January 6, 2006, 08:11 PM
My policy is that if you decide you don't like something that I described correctly, you can return it for a full refund minus shiping cost. . .no restocking fee, but I won't lose money because you decided you didn't like the gun.

If I send you the wrong gun, or I misrepresent the gun in any way, I'll give you a full refund (including shipping) and pay for you to send it back. I don't expect anyone to pay for my mistakes either.

About the transfer fees, I'm not sure. I've never shipped the wrong gun, so I don't know what I would do. $60 is pretty steep for a transfer, I'm not sure if I'd want to shell that out. I think the fair thing is for Bud's to pay the difference between a gun without a brake and one with one, and let eh guy keep the gun he has. Saying that the buyer neglected to call and confirm that the auction was correct (which is pretty much what Bud's says in the feedback on gunbroker) and is thus responsible is bad business.

BTW, Jerry's has a dealer cost difference of $107 between the two models

dracphelan
January 6, 2006, 08:13 PM
I went and read the entire thread. Considering that the seller is going back and forth on what they are willing to do, I would dispute the charge and send the rifle back. He is going to be out the shipping and the transfer fee. Chalk it up to lesson learned.

Any time you buy something (especially over $100), find out their complete returns policy before purchasing/bidding. There is not more he can do.

Jon Coppenbarger
January 6, 2006, 08:16 PM
Do get your money back from the charge!
Get all your paperwork together for proof to the credit card company.
Copy of the ad and what they sent. That company will then if they lose want the gun back so make them send a pick up tag for the return. Making them pay.
As long as they can get Away with it they will and the only way to help them stop is to make them pay for their mistakes.

I have no ideal what happened as I only see your side and a small part of it.
Alot of states have laws against bait and switch. Its called fraud.
All gun broker ads I have seen have pictures so what was their explanation on why the firearm in the photo in the ad was not shipped? Did they just say tough? Did they offer to give some funds back? Or just screw you?

How do we not know they offered to take the gun back but you wanted money for the repairs and not return the rifle?

I know of a case that I know most of the parties involved that went south.
A person bought a match M1A from a person I know. He stated he had shot it in many matches and did well with it. We know the person has shot for many years and was on a few military big teams. This guy pays him and then tries to go out and shoot it but notices the front sight is cocked. Being afraid something is wrong he calls the guy and he swears up and down nothing is wrong and he does not have the funds to buy it back and tough because he knows he shot it in some big matches. Well this guy takes the rifle to two different gunsmiths that are very good on service rifles. and they said the same exact thing and write him letter stating what was wrong with the rifle.
The rifle need a new barrel because of the mistake.
So the seller says send it back to the original person who built it which is one of the famous ones and if he says its bad I will do something about it.
Low and behold the seller decides to refund the money and the original builder says there was something wrong and he fixed it.

Now here is what I find is funny?
#1 Why when the buyer just either wanted his money back if he would not fix it or have it fixed and he would keep it. That seems real fine to me but instead of the rifle being sent back because it was fixed the seller wanted it back now. New barrel and rifle worth more now?

#2 Then seller starts rumors that the guy who wrote the letter stating it was bad is full of it and has no ideal what he is talking about.
Lets see the rifle was bad but you had it sent to a different dealer friend who then looks at a fixed rifle and states its fine? It would be after it was fixed.

The bottom line is unles you make crooks tow the line they will keep burning folks.

scubie02
January 6, 2006, 08:28 PM
You really need to report them to gunbroker, and contact your credit card to stop payment

gezzer
January 6, 2006, 09:23 PM
Why would he accept the gun from the transfer dealer if it was wrong. SHould have been sent back right away.

$60 buck transfer fee? no this is way to much. No wonder I don't ship anything to CA because of problems like this..

Raph84
January 6, 2006, 09:54 PM
Did he put a stop payment on it?

MAUSER88
January 6, 2006, 09:59 PM
Stop payment on your CC and HIM issue a UPS call tag to have the rifle picked up. You did nothing wrong.

Standing Wolf
January 6, 2006, 10:04 PM
By the way, the gun store reneged on their offer. Their reason - get this - was that they post alot of stuff on Gun Broker and can't be expected to have it 100% accurate.

I believe I'd be inclined to report that "gun shop" to the B.A.T.F.E. for engaging in fraud. It's apparent to me the "gun shop" was hoping the buyer would consider the loss of the brake too small to bother contending over, and has since engaged in a grudge match.

I'm not sure the B.A.T.F.E. would actually do anything, of course, but it wouldn't surprise me to learn this "gun shop" makes a regular practice of shorting its customers.

Sir Aardvark
January 6, 2006, 10:04 PM
Once again, an excellent example of why it pays to use a credit card to purchase all your goodies.

If a problem arises and the seller refuses to correct things, feel free to play your hole card and have the credit card company do a "charge back" to the seller.

Everyone here should make it a point to become familar with their Credit Card Company's rules for doing a charge back - it just might save you a load of frustration one day!

Spot77
January 6, 2006, 10:36 PM
When you need to return something to a local store

When one of my stores tints a contractor's paint wrong, we PAY the contractor to repaint his project AND give him the materials to do it, even if the color was supposed to be white and it turned out purple. He should've checked it first, right? Makes sense.....

But nope. We pay.

Preacherman
January 6, 2006, 10:45 PM
This story sure gives me a slow burn... :fire:

I can only cite the example of my local gunshop - a small-time dealer in a smallish city, who doesn't make much at all (if he clears a few hundred profit in a month, after all expenses, he considers he's doing well). He made a mistake on one transaction, and ordered a gun that was not what his customer wanted. When it arrived, his customer pointed out the error. Instead of whining and moaning, he immediately admitted his error, ordered the right gun, and sold it to the customer at his cost - no profit - as compensation for the added delay. He was also stuck with the gun he originally ordered, as the wholesaler had them on "special" and wouldn't take it back. It took him eight months to sell the gun, at a loss. So, his error cost him probably three or four months profit - but he never complained, simply put his mistake right, and carried on. That's why I go back to him for repeat business, and have no problem paying him a higher price than I could get at Wal-Mart. That sort of integrity deserves support!

Gordon
January 6, 2006, 10:48 PM
Amen and amen ,Father!:)

rustymaggot
January 6, 2006, 11:10 PM
This story sure gives me a slow burn... :fire:

I can only cite the example of my local gunshop - a small-time dealer in a smallish city, who doesn't make much at all (if he clears a few hundred profit in a month, after all expenses, he considers he's doing well). He made a mistake on one transaction, and ordered a gun that was not what his customer wanted. When it arrived, his customer pointed out the error. Instead of whining and moaning, he immediately admitted his error, ordered the right gun, and sold it to the customer at his cost - no profit - as compensation for the added delay. He was also stuck with the gun he originally ordered, as the wholesaler had them on "special" and wouldn't take it back. It took him eight months to sell the gun, at a loss. So, his error cost him probably three or four months profit - but he never complained, simply put his mistake right, and carried on. That's why I go back to him for repeat business, and have no problem paying him a higher price than I could get at Wal-Mart. That sort of integrity deserves support!

i whole heartedly agree.

mosttoyswins
January 6, 2006, 11:52 PM
Tell him to stop payment on his CC and keep the rifle. That will get the gun shops attention. :evil:

jonnyringo
January 7, 2006, 12:15 AM
The wrong gun was shipped. The seller should pay all the shipping costs involved. Screw the ********** fees, that is a political issue in my opinion. Move out of that communist state.

Lupinus
January 7, 2006, 12:16 AM
As someone who works for a small business, asking someone to pay for all the shipping back and forth and the transfer fee ($60.00?!?!?!) is a bit excessive.

He could have had what he wanted, but now he's just going to waste a bunch of time and money over $20 worth of shipping.
If it is a matter of this much money? You bet your keester I would demand my gas money back too along with the right product or a refund of that too.

If a guy screws up it is their responsibility to make it right, and that involves covering all expensis to do so includding shipping and the second transfer fee. Now that would stay within reason, you shouldn't expect next day air or an overpriced transfer fee (sorry, sixty bucks is way to much), but a reasonable transfer fee and shipping both ways they should be taking care of.

EVIL5LITER
January 7, 2006, 12:18 AM
Tell him to stop payment on his CC and keep the rifle. That will get the gun shops attention. :evil:

That's fraud and will get you in trouble with the law at best, and at worst will get you dead. You don't mess with a person's money.

SecuritySixShooter
January 7, 2006, 12:21 AM
If you like amusment that is the only gunshop with a shooting range located near me...been there many times

itgoesboom
January 7, 2006, 03:01 AM
Thats pretty crappy on the part of the gunshop, and just shows their lack of customer support.

The buyer should stop payment on the card, and have them issue a call tag to pick up the rife. Contacting his states attorney general, Weatherby, and gunbroker as well might be a good idea.

One thing is for sure though, I won't be purchasing anything through that shop, and I sent them a quick email on their site telling them that.

Just wanted to express my disappointment at how your company has handled the auction # 41432244 over at Gunbroker. I have read the purchasers comments, as well as yours on the feedback page, and I am very sad to see the way that you treated a customer of yours.

I am surprised, since you seem to have such high feedback from other customers of yours on Gunbroker. I tried to see it from your perspective, but after reading the way you termed the negative feedback against the purchaser while at the same time admitting fault (on your response to purchasers feedback), as well as your description of the rifle, I can honestly say I see you in the wrong.

I have never discussed anything with the purchaser either on line or offline, but I will make sure to keep his experience in mind when I purchase my next firearm.

I am sorry to say that your shop will not be a shop that I purchase anything through. While I am sorry to have to say that so definitively, I am happy that I found this out in advance prior to bidding on any items of yours.

Sincerely,

XXXXX X. XXXXXXX

mrmeval
January 7, 2006, 03:59 AM
Actually it's not fraud if he's made an effort to allow the return of the product.

That's fraud and will get you in trouble with the law at best, and at worst will get you dead. You don't mess with a person's money.

nyresq
January 7, 2006, 04:18 AM
It seems to me that Buds is a bunch of scumbags that will never get my business. The bait and switch is a serious case of fraud. I say stop the CC charge and hold onto the gun untill they send a pick up tag prepaid to get the gun back.

but one thing bothers me and it may be because I don't live in kaleefor-nee-uh and don't know about the transfers there.....

Did you ever open the box and look at the rifle before you filled out all the paperwork?
If you saw the rifle was wrong and still filled out the paperwork for the tranfer, then the tranfer cost is your problem.

I know if I buy a gun and have it shipped to my ffl, I first open the box and strip it down to make sure there is nothing busted or not in sync with the seller description. If I find a problem, then I call the seller before I have it tranferred to my name, and work out any details before I sign my name and walk out the shop with the gun.

nyresq
January 7, 2006, 04:24 AM
Actually it's not fraud if he's made an effort to allow the return of the product.


it is if he doesn't offer a full refund of all monies paid for the product... that includes any shipping.

that means buds offers a full refund of the purchase price, the shipping to and sends a prepaid return ticket to get it back.
I don't think the transfer cost would be included though as the buyer could have stopped the transaction before that expense took place when he saw the rifle was wrong.

its called a bait and switch. you buy a premium product for a great price and then you get a lower cost model. its illegal in most states, and definatly if it involved interstate commerce. there may even be fraud charges seperate from that because the transaction was over the internet. internet fraud is a very big deal right now with special task forces with FBI and USSS and the postal inspectors going after people defrauding people through EBAY and sites like that.

jerkface11
January 7, 2006, 09:50 AM
Maybe someone should send that gunshop a copy of this link. http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=86336&highlight=bearcoat

jtward01
January 7, 2006, 10:39 AM
Back in 2001 I bought a Colt Cowboy from Tim Harris at Elliot's Small Arms (3008 Jefferson Highway, Jefferson, LA 70121 504-833-3140) and they shipped me a gun they'd just received from the distributor. Unfortunately, the employee Tim delegated to handle my order didn't check the gun before shipping and when I opened the box the gun was covered with a light speckling of rust. I used some gun oil and fine steel wool to remove the rust but it had permanently damaged the finish. I called Tim and he not only paid to have the gun shipped back to him and to have another gun shipped to my FFL holder, he also paid for the second transfer and background check fees.

I've since bought several more guns from Tim and the service has always been first rate.

kentucky_smith
January 7, 2006, 10:50 AM
In Bud's defense, I've bought probably a dozen guns from them. Never a problem and always a much better deal than anyone around. Course, I'm an hour away and have always bought in person, but you guys need to lay off a little.

One bad deal does not a bad gunstore make.

Rinspeed
January 7, 2006, 11:02 AM
This story sure gives me a slow burn... :fire:

I can only cite the example of my local gunshop - a small-time dealer in a smallish city, who doesn't make much at all (if he clears a few hundred profit in a month, after all expenses, he considers he's doing well). He made a mistake on one transaction, and ordered a gun that was not what his customer wanted. When it arrived, his customer pointed out the error. Instead of whining and moaning, he immediately admitted his error, ordered the right gun, and sold it to the customer at his cost - no profit - as compensation for the added delay. He was also stuck with the gun he originally ordered, as the wholesaler had them on "special" and wouldn't take it back. It took him eight months to sell the gun, at a loss. So, his error cost him probably three or four months profit - but he never complained, simply put his mistake right, and carried on. That's why I go back to him for repeat business, and have no problem paying him a higher price than I could get at Wal-Mart. That sort of integrity deserves support!



That's a very good story and brings up a point people loose sight of. The money to make this right isn't coming out of the dealers pocket it's coming from the profit of the sale. There is a difference.

bruss01
January 7, 2006, 11:03 AM
It seems to me that Buds is a bunch of scumbags that will never get my business. The bait and switch is a serious case of fraud. I say stop the CC charge and hold onto the gun untill they send a pick up tag prepaid to get the gun back.

Did you ever open the box and look at the rifle before you filled out all the paperwork?
If you saw the rifle was wrong and still filled out the paperwork for the tranfer, then the tranfer cost is your problem.



I have ordered from Bud's several times and usually with good results. I certainly commend them on keeping their prices competitive. However, we recently ordered a Ruger Mark III target pistol (.22lr) and what arrived was a Ruger Blackhawk 44 magnum single-action. Hmm.... That says to me, maybe they're overworked, pressed for time, maybe have some inexperienced or "not as careful as they ought to be" help working there. This is not the kind of mistake that results from a "bait and switch", since the Blackhawk cost significantly more than the Mark III, so I don't question the honesty, just the attention to sending the right product. In fairness, this was ordered durring the post-Katrina, pre-Christmas period, probably a very busy season for them.

My FFL noticed the discrepancy right away, and if he hadn't the wife surely would have when she went to do the paperwork. It took some doing, but Bud's eventually agreed to pay return shipping and sent us the correct item. In this case they may have been motivated by the fact that we were in posession of a revolver worth substantially more than what we paid - but I'd like to give them the benefit of the doubt. They did make things right in our case. We made a point of being excruciatingly pleasant and accomodating when talking with them via phone, perhaps that makes a difference too.

In the case mentioned at the top of this post, I think someone at Bud's made an honest mistake and sent a similar rifle in error. However, I do believe the purchaser made a mistake in not checking the rifle before committing the paperwork. Never marry a bride without lifting the veil. Bud's should pay the shipping to return the wrong rifle and send the correct one, since that mistake was theirs. The purchaser should eat it for the paperwork costs, due to his failure to inspect prior to signing on the dotted line.

-C4-
January 7, 2006, 11:28 AM
In Bud's defense, I've bought probably a dozen guns from them. Never a problem and always a much better deal than anyone around. Course, I'm an hour away and have always bought in person, but you guys need to lay off a little.

One bad deal does not a bad gunstore make.

It isn't just the bad deal, it is more the way they handled it. I personally use a guy MD to do all my transfers and buy everything from reputable people online. Since the guy here has had such good service for me in the past I continue to use him and have even started to throw more gunsmithing work his way. IMHO service is what gets business. Just my opinion though.

-C4-

5.56
January 7, 2006, 11:32 AM
You can build a 1,000 great bridges in your life. But get caught sucking a weiner and you will branded a weiner lover the rest of your life. I have dealt with many companies over the yrs. Many have made errors in sending me the wrong product. None have refused to send a call tag for the item and sent me the correct item and that includes firearms I also have an FFL. If I had not gotten that service from them I would have told the world and they would have never got a nickles worth of business again.
I would talk to the FFL holder and explain that the wrong rifle was sent, meaning the folks who did the transfer. They very well may agree to allow you to use thier shop to have the rilfe sent back and not charge you for the transfer of the correct rifle when it comes in since they were paid already. I know as an FFL holder I would not double charge a person for that kind of an error. I would have thought you would have checked the rifle prior to signing for at at the transfer point. That would have been the best time to stop the transfer and correct the problem.
Failure to at least replace the product with the correct product would lead to legal actions. Did the firearm cross statelines to get to you? If the dealer is refusing to work with you at all and has charged you for a product that he did not send you and sent you a less valued product. I would contact the auction folks as well as BATF and it would be interesting to see how the FBI views interstate fraud since the item involved crossed state lines as well. I would NOT have a P.ssing match on the phone with the dealer in question. I do have to agree with the folks that you should have not made the transfer when you saw it was the incorrect item.
It kinda makes it look like you knew it was wrong and accepted it anyhow. From the sellors point of view, "I made a mistake and shipped the wrong rifle, why did you accept it and pay a $60 transfer fee? All you needed to do was to tell them it was wrong and stopped the transfer and contacted me and we could have got it straightened out."
Again I would have talked to the transferring dealer about what happened and see if they would help you in regards to the transfer fee when the correct rifle gets there. I am wondering if tempers flaring and words heated have caused part of this problem?

5.56

Snagglepuss
January 7, 2006, 11:54 AM
I keep Bud's on my list of shops to check when I am ready to buy. They have now been deleted. I understand mistakes happen but they should always be corrected honestly. Buds did not do this. Actually I am amazed that any online shop would act like this. I do feel the transfer fee is the buyers loss however. As mentioned before, why accept the transfer if it was not the gun you ordered.

Bud's :neener:

Gatman
January 7, 2006, 03:42 PM
Another thing you got to look at is the perspective of the FFL doing the transfer. The guy by my house runs it out of his garage. Should he be inconvenienced with having to wait for a FedEx guy and whatnot? Why should he have to hold on to a rifle that is not his? I know he is making his money on the transfer fee but the point is that the buyer may not want to have inconvenienced the FFL he was dealing with. I also think that the FFL should allow him to do his next transfer at a reduced rate. The seller screwed up and should eat all of the shipping charges. The buyer should have inspected his gun and should help the FFL he is transfering through a little bit.

Soybomb
January 7, 2006, 03:43 PM
Their fault, they owe you a total refund on shipping. If you got it and you just didn't like it, then you pay shipping. You didn't get what you ordered so they pay shipping. The transfer fee I'm not sure about.

It took some doing, but Bud's eventually agreed to pay return shipping and sent us the correct item.
Thats kind of troubling. I've ordered from buds a few times because of their low prices, even if their shipping is a little slow. For you to have to argue or debate anything for them to pay return shipping back on their mistake is really poor CS. I'd probably have wound up calling mastercard and letting them send a ups sticker if they wanted their gun back.

This thread has made me reconsider ordering from buds, and I was actually looking there this morning at something.

Double Maduro
January 7, 2006, 05:13 PM
I haven't read all the posts so if this is a repeat, tough.

When I order guns sent to my dealer, I always inspect them before I accept them. If there is a problem, I don't accept them and cancel the deal.

DM

Hawk
January 7, 2006, 07:54 PM
One bad deal does not a bad gunstore make.

I'd tend to agree but get a load of this (http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewUserFeedback.asp?User=280302).

6% negative feedback in 30 days is pretty spectacular (at the time of this posting). It's not consistent with history. Perhaps it's a temporary recent issue of some sort.

Regardless, I'll stay well clear of anyone suddenly running 6%, even given that 25% of the current negs is the one is this thread.

kentucky_smith
January 7, 2006, 08:17 PM
I'd tend to agree but get a load of this (http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewUserFeedback.asp?User=280302).

6% negative feedback in 30 days is pretty spectacular (at the time of this posting). It's not consistent with history. Perhaps it's a temporary recent issue of some sort.

Regardless, I'll stay well clear of anyone suddenly running 6%, even given that 25% of the current negs is the one is this thread.


Go back and read the negatives. Looks like 2 of those were unfounded.

Example:
D: Couldnt get weapon serial number to give to my FFL holder, so he wouldnt release license to purchase...I am buying from someone else.
Response: He did not pay us or provide an FFL. The phone number he provided is invalid. He did not contact us before he bid. We do not provide a serial number if you do not pay us or provide a valid FFL.


Here's there response on the item in question. I'm beginning not to believe him either.

D: Rifle advertised having muzzlebrake & didn't. Seller admitted error,wanted 20% restock fee.I tried to settle without loss $$$-they refused. Said they'd change pos feedback to neg if I complained.
Response: We offered full refund with no restocking fee even though gun is used now; we offered to pay return shipping, but he refused. Auction says to verify description against model number.
Follow-up: Gun receipt signed for, never used.Be VERY careful - seller admits ads not accurate.Uses neg feedback as threat

And here's one of the guy's posts on the 1st link of this thread

Thanks for the support and I will definately let everyone know how things work out. I don't mind the recoil, I just wanted to put a $19.00 Tasco on it and figured the brake would keep the scope in one piece!

Just kidding. Am I overestimating the recoil from this thing? It seems to weigh about 8lbs. I routinely fire an AR in 338 Lapua Mag with brake and have to say, it's much heavier and I think the thing would have a helluva wallop without it. I'm 6'4" but only about 190 - right handed & left eyed so I shoot off my not so sturdy left shoulder. I don't think I'm recoil shy, 300 H & H is no problem nor 375 H & H Encore or 375 JDJ Contender handgun

And this:

They've offered me a credit back of the cost of brake up to $200.00. Seems about right.

Coltdriver
January 7, 2006, 08:28 PM
First of all I would suspend the entire credit card payment.

Then I would determine the cost to have the accubrake installed.

Then I would authorize my credit card company to allow the amount of the purchase less the cost of adding an accubrake. Barring a response from the gunshop saying they would replace the rifle with a new one with the accubrake and absorb ALL of the additional shipping and tranfer fees this is a prudent course.

The gun shop screwed up. Their screw up should not cost me a dime. A credit card is a great way to protect yourself.

Then I would post the whole sordid story in my rating on gun broker.

Hawk
January 7, 2006, 09:49 PM
Kentucky Smith makes some good observations.

But receiving FFL's often have quirks. I've asked for serial numbers before and during bidding before and never got one of these: We do not provide a serial number if you do not pay us or provide a valid FFL.

Not necessarily bad, but IME rather odd. Why be difficult? Does he know something my sellers didn't?

DeputyVaughn
January 8, 2006, 12:39 AM
He should contact his credit card co. and let them deal with the seller about misrepresenting their product.

Scott

LAK
January 8, 2006, 08:27 AM
What brad said.

And it is my observation that businesses that bend over backwords to absorb all of the cost of mistakes ... make far fewer mistakes, are usually a pleasure to deal with, and go on to become very sucessful. It inspires great confidence, perhaps one of the the most important aspects of selling, and paramount in any business dealing online, mail order etc.
------------------------------------------

http://ussliberty.org
http://ssunitedstates.org

PX15
January 8, 2006, 11:37 AM
One good has come out of this thread..

I never thought about rejecting a ffl transfer on a firearm purchased on-line if it was somehow unacceptable when it arrived at my ffl dealers.

I generally deal with a local small sporting goods/gun shop who only charges a small transfer fee. (Generally $20). I wouldn't want him out of pocket in any situation, so now I would go ahead and give him the transfer fee, yet not fill out the paperwork and deal with the seller from that angle.

I always pay by U.S. Postal money order because someone told me I would have more legal recourse that way if for example my money was cashed, but the firearm was never shipped, or was misrepresented. Is that a fact?

I've had two dealings online thru GunsAmerica this past year (Colt DS & S&W Centennial model 40) and both sellers (BT/H. Hamilton) were a pleasure to deal with.

What is considered the "best way" to pay for an on-line purchase anyway? It seems like a credit card gives you more recourse, but most sellers charge you a premium for paying that way because the credit card company charges them for the service.

As for the topic of this thread.

It boggles my mind that a seller can say they can't guarantee the item they are advertising and what shows up at your ffl dealer will be the same thing. That makes absolutely no sense to me.

I can understand where a mistake can be made by shipping the wrong item, or the item sent isn't precisely what was advertised, but in that situation it would seem the seller would have the obligation to make the deal right.

I would never buy from someone who had such a policy, and I certainly WOULD leave negative feedback about the deal from the shores of ********** to the shores of the East Coast.

I think I need to take my zoloft. :cuss:

Thanks.

JP

Mannlicher
January 8, 2006, 11:49 AM
It almost seems like the old term 'caveat emptor' was invented for online transactions. Before buying anything online, ( or in a brick and morter, for that matter), know in advance what is the process for ameliorating a deal gone bad.
In this case, you may well be just out of luck.

redneck2
January 8, 2006, 09:37 PM
Uh...maybe you should just consider supporting your local dealer rather than getting a "deal" on the internet

If it's something used or unique, that's different. If it's brand new and widely available, buy local IMO

For the $$$ and time involved, you may be better off getting a Vais brake and have it installed.

Richard.Howe
January 9, 2006, 08:40 PM
I forwarded the link of this thread to Bud's -- I have had several successful deals with them, and thought they deserved to at least have a chance to respond -- and this is what they said:

Thank you for the email. We did offer to refund 100% of the buyers cost
and all shipping. He said he did not trust us to refund his money, which we
felt was unfair as we have never once, and never will, take anyones money
deceitfully.
The issue was that he did not want to return he gun, rather
have us pay him $150 so that he could send it to Weatherby to have the
Accu-Brake added. The Accu-Brake is not offered as a standard item on
any of the 26" models(what he won). We also offered to trade him up to the
28" model which does include the Accu-Brake, he refused that option also.
We sell a lot of guns, and do our very best to accommodate everyone, it is
unfortunately just not possible in some cases....and this was one of those
cases.

I do hope all of your future gun purchasing experiences are positive ones,
no matter who you purchase from.

Thank You,

Rex McClanahan
Budsgunshop.com

Let's always be careful before piling on someone's reputation. Failing to do so may best be reserved for the less-high-road of other forums.

Not sure who's in the right here, but sometimes, it's in everyone's interest to know (or at least hear) both sides before coming to a definitive conclusion. :)

Best,
Rich

Raph84
January 10, 2006, 03:44 PM
There is no sensible reason not to credit him the $150 though. In what Richar Howe posted They say that they would not do that, but do not say why. They also do not say if they would force him to pay shipping or restocking fees.

The gun shops reply seems carefully crafted to make themselves look good, but not tell the whole truth. Also it seems like every option they allowed for would require him to either throw away money w/ no gun or come out of pocket with more money to get a replacement gun.

That just is not right!

Falconeer
January 10, 2006, 03:52 PM
Uh...maybe you should just consider supporting your local dealer rather than getting a "deal" on the internet

I'm all for supporting my local dealer, but cost IS an issue.

I wanted to buy my NIB P239 locally, but they priced the gun at $750 + tax (for normal sights and two magazines). I found it online with SigLite night sights and three magazines for $615 including shipping. As much as I want to 'support my local gun shop', I just can't afford $135 for the privilage.

itgoesboom
January 10, 2006, 04:18 PM
I forwarded the link of this thread to Bud's -- I have had several successful deals with them, and thought they deserved to at least have a chance to respond -- and this is what they said:



Let's always be careful before piling on someone's reputation. Failing to do so may best be reserved for the less-high-road of other forums.

Not sure who's in the right here, but sometimes, it's in everyone's interest to know (or at least hear) both sides before coming to a definitive conclusion. :)

Best,
Rich


Intresting, that is word for word, the exact same letter they sent me the other day when I politely informed them that I wouldn't purchase anything from them after this fiasco.

I.G.B.

Brad Johnson
January 10, 2006, 05:38 PM
It's a form letter reply, as I also got the very same thing after I e-mailed them about the matter.

It is interesting that all they do is state that they offered to take the gun back. It says nothing about when, or under what conditions. Nor does it even address the issue of the incorrect auction info, or the restock fee, or the shipping and transfer fees the buyer was out because of their mistake. This letter only makes me more accepting of the buyer's version of events, not less. It still appears the gun shop screwed up then tried to make the buyer foot the bill for it. Only after getting their hand publicly spanked via the internet did they begin to figure out they mighta screwed the proverbial pooch.

Brad

Richard.Howe
January 10, 2006, 07:05 PM
Intresting, that is word for word, the exact same letter they sent me the other day

Well, I confess, I changed their letter before posting it here. There were three spelling mistakes. :D

Rich

MechAg94
January 10, 2006, 08:00 PM
In general, if they offered to make good on the rifle and shipping, I don't think it is right for the buyer to start adding additional conditions or start insisting on alternate proposals. As long as they are making good on it in a reasonable amount of time, let them do it their way. Asking for $150 is a bit too much IMHO. (I am assuming they did, in fact, offer the full return and refund.)

rick_reno
January 10, 2006, 08:08 PM
I'd take the refund and move on.

Stosh
February 13, 2006, 08:40 PM
I am curious, did Gunbroker offer to do anything at all to assist you in reaching a resolution of the problem ?

Hawkmoon
February 13, 2006, 08:52 PM
http://www.baitshopboyz.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9720&PN=1

its more than just the shipping costs, though... i think in an event like this w/ blatant misinformation/deception, bud's should completely refund everything, except x-fer fees (it is out of their control who he x-fers thru)...

it just seems to me to be a blatantly bad way to do business...
I disagree.

They should also pay for the transfer fees. No, they have no control over who he had it transferred through or how much that FFL charges, but they DID have control over the ad they placed on Gunbroker, and the rifle they shipped that did not include everything specified in THEIR advertisement. The seller created the problem, it is the seller's responsibility to make the buyer whole. That means refunding the entire purchase price, all shipping (both ways) and the transfer fee.

mp510
February 13, 2006, 09:39 PM
I'm not sure how far you are going to get with that guy, but that is an $1100 item, qwith $25 shipping each way, plus various transfer fees and taxes. Yeah, you should be fuming. If the refuse to make you whole, I would not have a problem filing a law suit against them.

In July I had a similar problem on eBay with a confederate currencey dealer. I was told specifically that the notes were real, and I received 1950's repros, with very obvious differences (stamped serial numbers, printed signatures, notoriously bad serial numbers. The seller ignored me when I got in touch with him, especially while I was threatning him with the lasw. I contacted FBI Internet Fraud Division, by the online form somebody directed me too, but I never even heard from the Bureau. I ultimately gave up since the small amount of money was not worth the fight.

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