"Monsters under the bed" and other posters.


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Oleg Volk
January 7, 2006, 05:04 AM
http://www.olegvolk.net/gallery/albums/arms/monsters8608.sized.jpg

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glockamolee
January 7, 2006, 05:07 AM
I agree, and would like to make the point (for your consideration) that many monsters are disguised as pseudo "Friends" and "Family."

I think I am just as concerned, but in a different way, about the "friend" that tries to make moves on my wife, or the family member who tries to find our jewelry box, as I would be about the 3a.m. intruder.

Oleg Volk
January 7, 2006, 05:12 AM
To most people, family members pose far greater dangers than strangers. That's worth remembering. Discarnating relatives and intimates is generally frowned upon by society, so making wise choices up front is doubly important and saves the wear on the carpet cleaning equipment.

esheato
January 7, 2006, 05:26 AM
Monsters, in the upper text line, is misspelt.

Ed

Oleg Volk
January 7, 2006, 05:27 AM
Thanks for noticing!

4570Rick
January 7, 2006, 05:51 AM
I like the picture and the concept but the language seems a bit awkward.

How about...In the life of every adult there should come a time when the monsters gain understanding of why your home is a poor choice.

Oleg Volk
January 7, 2006, 06:11 AM
Agree -- so I simplified the caption a lot.

4570Rick
January 7, 2006, 07:16 AM
Much better. :)

Wiley
January 7, 2006, 07:38 AM
I would suggest changing the bedding. The young lady doesn't stand out enough.

And possibly the t-shirt.

Nathaniel Firethorn
January 7, 2006, 08:07 AM
I noticed the books in the background. No wonder you've got monsters -- they can't read a "Keep Out" sign if it's in Russian! :D

- NF

mbs357
January 7, 2006, 08:09 AM
That a scope for CQB?
Also, just a nitpick, but I'd rather have the shells primer side down.

Powderman
January 7, 2006, 08:17 AM
Best one yet, Oleg!

Short, sweet and to the point--and the muzzle of that 12 gauge really is a statement of it's own.

Well done!

Nathaniel Firethorn
January 7, 2006, 08:19 AM
Yet another nitpick: See this thread (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=170503&highlight=shotgun+pistol+grip) about pistol grips on shotguns, esp. 12ga. The lady may be in for some trouble if she has to shoot.

The red-dot, in combination with the pistol grip, encourages a broken nose on the operator. :eek:

- NF

TechBrute
January 7, 2006, 08:51 AM
I wish she had a handgun instead of a shotgun. For some reason in my mind one is more likely to pull a handgun if one hasn't even got out of bed yet.

I like to see more of the models. I like that you use "normal" looking people, and you can imagine them being your neighbor or friend, not some fringe gun nut.

Kodiaz
January 7, 2006, 09:04 AM
My handguns are in my closet. My shotgun has 5 in the tube empty chamber and it is in the space between the matress and the wall.

pauli
January 7, 2006, 09:55 AM
Yet another nitpick: See this thread (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=170503&highlight=shotgun+pistol+grip) about pistol grips on shotguns, esp. 12ga. The lady may be in for some trouble if she has to shoot.

The red-dot, in combination with the pistol grip, encourages a broken nose on the operator. :eek:

- NF
it looks to me like her hair is falling over a pistol grip stock - i don't think it's a pgo. now, that stock would seem to necessarily be planted against her collarbone given the near-prone shooting position, but even a conventional stock wouldn't solve that.

i think, however, that she might want to move to the other end of the bed and cover the window, as well as the door ;)

twency
January 7, 2006, 10:04 AM
How about "Not all monster are fairy tales" instead? "Stay in fairy tales" sounds to me like there's a Wicked Witch or Balrog coming through the door. Just my $.02.

(Please take this as constructive criticism. I like a lot of your posters, Oleg, and I think it's great that you keep exploring new ways of expressing these critical issues to folks who just don't get it.)

____________
-twency

armoredman
January 7, 2006, 10:11 AM
I like it. Do you ever post paper copies of your posters anywhere? Do you give permission for people to use your work like that? Shame for these fine works of instructive art to remain forever hidden here, among the chior...

FXR
January 7, 2006, 10:29 AM
Oleg, a gentle suggestion:

"Not all monsters are in fairy tales"

and

"Give them a reason to stay out of your house".

I think the grammar flows better. Your work is great!
K

Medusa
January 7, 2006, 11:48 AM
Nice books, Anton Tšehhov's. What stories?

Anyway, nice shottie for keeping any uninvited "friends" out of girl's room.

TallPine
January 7, 2006, 12:33 PM
To most people, family members pose far greater dangers than strangers
It is for that reason that my FIL does not know the street address of our last two moves. :fire: We keep a PO box in town for corresponding with most relatives.

That's not the only danger though ... occasionally the friends of our former neighbor (who is now in prison) show up around here.:uhoh:

Dave R
January 7, 2006, 02:52 PM
I love the eye and the bore as focal points.

Well done.

f4t9r
January 7, 2006, 03:29 PM
Once again very nice
Would not walk in on her !!!!!!!!!!!

22-rimfire
January 7, 2006, 05:17 PM
Excellent photo composition!!

musher
January 7, 2006, 05:37 PM
Great Poster.

Discarnating relatives and intimates is generally frowned upon by society

I know it doesn't contribute to the thread, but I gotta point out that discarnate means stripped of flesh. I suppose to use it as a verb would mean to strip of flesh.

I'm pretty sure you meant disincarnate....but I could be wrong.

Either way, folks do pretty much frown on it.

Bobo
January 7, 2006, 05:48 PM
Nice photo. I like the natural line of interest from the muzzle to the scope to the eye.

How about:
"Not all monsters are in fairy tales"

"Give them good reason to stay out of your house".

You do great stuff!

XLMiguel
January 7, 2006, 06:32 PM
Nice poster, good message. Tactically speaking, though, I'd be on my knee behind the bed (smaller target), elbows on bed to aim. It's hard to jump up from prone and deliver a butt-stroke or otherwise engage in the [unlikely?] even the first load of 00 doesn't connect.

carebear
January 7, 2006, 06:58 PM
"Fairy tales" and "home" don't really go together.

Your "under the bed" title actually had more parallel structure.

It isn't as crime-accurate, but "Give them a reason to stay out of your closets." might have a little more flow (and dark humor).

Agreed on perhaps simplifying the bedding to make the girl and gun more prominant. Maybe a focus trick?

Oleg Volk
January 7, 2006, 07:33 PM
You are right, that was a typo. I did mean disincarnate, as per H.Beam Piper's Paratime series.

Lebben-B
January 7, 2006, 07:53 PM
"Monsters check under their beds for Chuck Norris."

The addition of a CCO on a shotty does not necessarily mean a bloody nose.

Mike

carebear
January 7, 2006, 08:03 PM
"Monsters check under their beds for Chuck Norris."

The addition of a CCO on a shotty does not necessarily mean a bloody nose.

Mike

He was referring to the combo of an optic (have to get your face right down by the receiver to use it) with a pistol grip only stock. No shoulder stock almost guarantees recoil is going to ram the receiver right into your nose/face when you touch it off.

kentucky_smith
January 7, 2006, 08:22 PM
I think we need to see more of the girl. :D

mustanger98
January 7, 2006, 08:43 PM
Also, just a nitpick, but I'd rather have the shells primer side down.

I'm thinking this would make for a slicker reload.

I wish she had a handgun instead of a shotgun. For some reason in my mind one is more likely to pull a handgun if one hasn't even got out of bed yet.

While this is a possibility, it's also possible someone may lay a 12guage SxS across the nightstand and reach for it first. I know, not very tacticool, but very effective.

I like to see more of the models. I like that you use "normal" looking people, and you can imagine them being your neighbor or friend, not some fringe gun nut.

I don't think we necessarily need to see so much of the model, although they do look nice. I do agree they look like real people as opposed to Hollywierd and supermodels and such.

My shotgun has 5 in the tube empty chamber and it is in the space between the matress and the wall.

I wouldn't advertise that. If some whacko was online reading this and was talented enough, he come hunting you and it might take away your tactical advantage or give them the edge of knowing. I hate to be the one to say that, but...

it looks to me like her hair is falling over a pistol grip stock - i don't think it's a pgo. now, that stock would seem to necessarily be planted against her collarbone given the near-prone shooting position, but even a conventional stock wouldn't solve that.

That's gonna hurt.

i think, however, that she might want to move to the other end of the bed and cover the window, as well as the door

I agree.

How about "Not all monster are fairy tales" instead? "Stay in fairy tales" sounds to me like there's a Wicked Witch or Balrog coming through the door. Just my $.02.

How about the "big bad wolf"? We do have synonyms for bad guys comparing them to four legged predators such as coyotes.

Nice poster, good message. Tactically speaking, though, I'd be on my knee behind the bed (smaller target), elbows on bed to aim. It's hard to jump up from prone and deliver a butt-stroke or otherwise engage in the [unlikely?] even the first load of 00 doesn't connect.

I agree with this too, but, I wouldn't recommend her jumping up and going hand to hand or head to head with an intruder who might outweigh and overpower her as long as her weapon is loaded and functioning.

This is all just my opinion.

Don't Tread On Me
January 7, 2006, 08:49 PM
This poster is a winner.

Standing Wolf
January 7, 2006, 09:01 PM
This poster is a winner.

I'll second that.

GRB
January 7, 2006, 09:15 PM
A poster like that with the finger off of the trigger imparts little as I see it. If you are concerned about gun safety rules, then use a safe gun that cannot possibly be fired - remove the bolt for the shot (no pun intended - it just came naturally).

Also having her on the bed with the shotgun may send a message of "keep away" to potential rapists or molesters but it also sends, albeit unwittingly I am sure, a sexually provocative message to many of the whackos out there. I like it but would be hesitant to actually have the shooter in the bed with the gun - way to many sexually related implications for a pervert to make and thereby thrill him/herself over.

I would recommend something with the young lady (or mom or dad holding shotgun and son/daughter next to parent) defending self. In no case should the intended victim be in the bed - don't put anything in the shot for someone like a pervert to find a thrill with. Have the defender out of the bed - standing his/her ground protecting life, property and morality. Have the molester in or climbing over the bed with open window in background - molester is then seen as invader, who would atatck morality (image of bed) and who would have taken life (the intruder's weapon). As an example, not a recommendation, see below:

Top caption: Children fear monsters are hiding under the bed,
or Sometimes we fear monsters are hiding under the bed...


PHOTO of armed molester climbing in through open window onto or over bed (bed next to window as often is the case) with armed young lady (or armed parent protecting frightened scared child) pointing shotgun at bad-guy from across the room.


Bottom Caption: ...but real monsters don't hide under beds!

Oleg Volk
January 7, 2006, 09:19 PM
I'll make that version also -- trying to cover all bases.

As for the pervs, note that she's not wearing any sexy lacies...don't think they'll like this one much.

spacemanspiff
January 7, 2006, 09:26 PM
Also having her on the bed with the shotgun may send a message to potential rapists or molesters but it also sends, albeit unwittingly I am sure, a sexually provocative message to many of the whackos out there. I like it but would be hesitant to actually have the shooter in the bed with the gun - way to many sexually related implicatuions for a perver to make and thereby thrill him/herself over.
as long as its within the confines of the law, what should oleg worry about the few pervs out there? no matter what it is, theres a fetish for it. we cant tiptoe around in this day and age without tripping over someones deviant fantasies.

agree that laying out on the bed isnt exactly a 'Tactical-Do'.
how about a poster that has three images:
1. subject sitting on bed either reading or with a laptop.
2. subject has heard something going 'bump' and is reaching for the shotgun standing between the bed and nightstand.
3. subject has shouldered the weapon. maybe even slipped down into a sitting position on the floor using the bed as cover, only the muzzle and top of her head is visible?

kentucky_smith
January 7, 2006, 09:32 PM
daggummit guys, now I feel all dirty.

GRB
January 7, 2006, 10:02 PM
Oh. I just kind of had the idea that this photo poster was to promote a couple of different things. One of them gun ownership, another self defense, and another a warning to the perverts and other criminals who would break in to someones home with evil on their minds. I did not think you would also want to allow it to inadvertantly cause pleasure for perverts. Granted they might be able to twist any photo into some form of whacko pleasure but I think this particualr kind of a shot offers them what they are seeking.

My thought was not that Oleg has to worry at all about the perverts and what they think, but rather that a stronger message be sent, one without as many things they find as exciting or with the same elements but expressed in a less provocative way for a pervert. They too will see this poster if it ever is popularizaed. Why give them anything to get their jollies off, why increase the chance of sending a wrong message or of sending out pleasure signals to weirdos. I have worked in situations where defense attorneys try to twist as much as they can, the ACLU tries to twist it even further, and the mind of the crimninal twists it amazingly even further. The most twisted criminal minds that I have ever encountered were sexual predators and the most twisted among them were the few peodophiles that I have met.

I guess my point there is why make it easy for them, give them as little for their imaginations as possible while still making a direct, hard, cold point about what is awaiting them if they try an armed breakin. I kind of zeroed in on perverts because of the title of this thread incluiding the word MONSTERS. Although Oleg could have meant it to refer to any criminal - sexual predators come to my mind most readily associated with the word mosnters.

Then again, I don't give a any real thought about what the perverts may think of a poster, yet I do care about where such thoughts may lead. If you show them things that are obviously provocative to them (such as a pretty, young, possibly school aged lady on the bed, holding a long hard object (regardless of whether or not this is a gun or possibly even more so because it is a gun and it shoots) this would tend to arouse many criminals who are of the nature of a true sexual predator of the monster variety. While any photo poster maybe seen as provocative, why give perverts something that really turns them on.

As for saying 'there are few turn ons like skin or lacy lingeries and things', you guys are looking at it from a normal person's viewpoint. Skin and lace turn you on. Sure a pervert gets turned on by this too, but the monsters get turned on by other things too like: the look of innocence or, a look of implied sexuality (girl in the bed holding long hard object), a school aged victim, the victim in he rown bed, the victim with finger off of the trigger not really willing to defend herself (from the pervert's view she wants it because she is not really about to shoot him with her finger off the trigger, he sees that as weakness another invitation and turn-on; the pervert does not know you are thinking about 1 of 4 gun safety rules) and so forth. Again, by monsters, I mean child molseters, peodophiles, (not all peodophiles actually physically molest children), violent rapists and so forth.

Just my opinion, but I believethis picture absolutely gives a pervert a perverted thrill seekers paradise. I would readily agree Oleg did not intend this, and maybe it could be found in any picture; but I will say with some fair degree of certainty, this pictire would arouse many a pervert more so than would a picture of another nature. Yet a picture of another nature - one without the same turn-on aspects, would still send the same message of guns for self defense, the right of armed self defense, an intended victim turning the tables on the intruder, a family united against the thug, strong opponents as opposed to weak victims and so forth. Just my thoughts, hope they are helpful.:)

All the best,
Glenn B

Don't Tread On Me
January 7, 2006, 10:15 PM
My all time favorite Oleg poster is the vermin/kevlar/punchthrough one...That's strong. Beautiful. Direct. Pure anti-JBT'ism, which is pure Americanism at its finest. Only a person who truly understands the nature of government can produce a poster like that. Some people are in la-la land when it comes to trusting their masters. It can happen anywhere, and guess what? They'll be wearing kevlar...


If our founding fathers were alive today to see that poster, they'd shed a tear of pure joy and award Oleg, then declare their disgust and shame for most American's who've embraced the very things they shed blood to fight.


Sorry, not trying to hijack the thread.


More on topic:


I think the female/homedefense approach is VITAL to our efforts. At this moment, I am on the verge of converting a highly anti-gun lib. She's never been around guns, and was actually shocked to say she has friends who own guns. (Our education system at its finest)..anyhow...


Like I said in the machine gun poster that Oleg last produced, you have to be real careful with these types, if you come off too strong - you lose them.


This poster is pretty darn good. I've noticed that Oleg likes to use very bold, very visual and attention grabbing firearms in his photo's of home defense. Like tricked out AR's or shotguns with reddots etc. This definately creates an almost shock or an attention getter to fence riders. Images like those gain a reaction based on their potential to be reality, or not to be. #1 thing that goes through most people's mind is them imagining if they'd ever hold, own, use such a firearm. You weigh the thought provoking vs. the reality.


IMO, yea, these bold weapons are part of Oleg's big message about effectiveness. I totally agree. Actually, I often argue with other hardended pro-gunners over what is acceptible for home defense. In my view, there's almost nothing I wouldn't mind using so long as it doesn't kill myself in the process (grenade launchers...)...Personally, I'd seperate the message of effective arms from the concept of accepting firearms for defense. First get them to accept firearms, accept the responsibility for defense, then work on effectiveness. I imagine in some cases that antis just reject such images because of being so strong. Take it to a logical extreme, show some 14year old girl with some mini-gun like in Predator..at some point you lose effectiveness in the message.


Anyhow, this anti-gun friend of ours has finally (to my disbelief) expressed a slightly positive view of firearms. This is because of fear created due to an issue with a dangerous neighbor... The idea of one for home protection is actually crossed her mind. Not being seriously debated, not being considered - but it is on the table of ideas. That's a huge first step in opening the mind. Being a new mother, the instinct to protect has come into play.


Now, one has to be careful how they approach the issue. You do not want to become a scare-monger. These are the tactics of our enemies. We're High Road. Instead, carefully bring the reality of existing threats to peaceful life to attention, and offer the perfect means of dealing with it.


Many of Oleg's posters on women and their dignity/safety are masterpeices.

mustanger98
January 7, 2006, 10:49 PM
Now, this is just some more of my thought just for the sake of discussion and hopefully making the real point stronger.

Oh. I just kind of had the idea that this photo poster was to promote a couple of different things. One of them gun ownership, another self defense, and another a warning to the perverts and other criminals who would break in to someones home with evil on their minds. I did not think you would also want to allow it to inadvertantly cause pleasure for perverts. Granted they might be able to twist any photo into some form of whacko pleasure but I think this particualr kind of a shot offers them what they are seeking.

I'm reminded of the speach I made in the public speaking class in college last winter on why individuals should have the right to keep firearms for personal protection. (Not that we do or don't, but why we all should.) One of the points I brought up was women's issues and I'm a guy and gave this speach to a class evenly split between guys and girls 10-12 years younger than myself. I told I have a sister and I related the synopsys of a news article I read a few years ago about a college girl who armed herself against a known serial rapist who broke into her dorm room the night after she obtained her pistol, and she shot him dead right there. Everybody involved in the incident agreed she saved herself and so many future victims a lot of physical and emotional pain. This got the girls' attention for sure, and I'm not saying they were oblivious to begin with. But one thing I told them is "we'd rather talk with you than about you" is the general consensus among most defensive gun owners I know and this concern eased any tension about why this was brought up as a point.

Then again, I don't give a any real thought about what the perverts may think of a poster, yet I do care about where such thoughts may lead. If you show them things that are obviously provocative to them (such as a pretty, young, possibly school aged lady on the bed, holding a long hard object (regardless of whether or not this is a gun or possibly even more so because it is a gun and it shoots) this would tend to arouse many criminals who are of the nature of a true sexual predator of the monster variety. While any photo poster maybe seen as provocative, why give perverts something that really turns them on.

This, along with other statements you've made which I left unaddressed, is why the ladies should be armed with firearms and the knowledge and will to use them to maximum effect, to take care of business when the sickos show up. I'm sure you agree. As in other posts, the pose has been noted as tactically unsound, as well as the choice of weapon(s) being more flexible than just an ugly black shotgun with a sight system that requires batteries. She should be down behind the bed covering the door and window with whatever weapon someone chooses, ready to give the predator their just deserts (i.e. belly-full of lead).

As for saying 'there are few turn ons like skin or lacy lingeries and things', you guys are looking at it from a normal person's viewpoint. Skin and lace turn you on. Sure a pervert gets turned on by this too, but the monsters get turned on by other things too like: the look of innocence or, a look of implied sexuality (girl in the bed holding long hard object), a school aged victim, the victim in he rown bed, the victim with finger off of the trigger not really willing to defend herself (from the pervert's view she wants it because she is not really about to shoot him with her finger off the trigger, he sees that as weakness another invitation and turn-on; the pervert does not know you are thinking about 1 of 4 gun safety rules) and so forth. Again, by monsters, I mean child molseters, peodophiles, (not all peodophiles actually physically molest children), violent rapists and so forth.

This deal about "skin or lacy lingeries", while we are talking about it from a normal, i.e. sensible morally grounded, type person's views, I've seen pictures where a simulated break-in was photoed with a beautiful, even "sexy" type of model wearing a lacey camisole and bikini getting out of bed with semiautomatic holster-size pistol in hand. There was NO turn-on whatever in that picture. She knew how to convey the dead serious nature of the situation as well as the photographer did. Under other circumstances, she might have been a turn-on to see, but not in that situation. Attitude is everything.

I see where it can go both ways because we do see pictures of women with guns in a variety of situations as photographed in Blue Press, but some of them remind me of a good friend of mine and I'd hate to see the mess she'd make out of a monster too. She keeps a 12guage handy too.

This thing about the gun safety rules and the desired image for the message of this poster; I'm fixin' to ruffle the safety Nazis' feathers, but here goes. Do not take this picture with parts of the weapon missing because it implies the victim will be armed with a non-working weapon. Triple or quadruple check the weapon to be sure it is un-loaded, close the bolt, and take the picture with her finger on the trigger. She will look much more determined than if trying to follow the four safety rules in a simulated SD situation. Also, you might consider the use of a remote camera for taking these shots- they do that for shows like American Rifleman TV. At any rate, I've had this thought for a while that you do not want to convey weakness even in the name of safety when conveying the urgency of armed SD.

I'm not in an all-fired disagreement here. I'm just bringing up more stuff.

Oleg Volk
January 7, 2006, 11:17 PM
My all time favorite Oleg poster is the vermin/kevlar/punchthrough one...That's strong. Beautiful. Direct. Pure anti-JBT'ism, which is pure Americanism at its finest. Only a person who truly understands the nature of government can produce a poster like that. Some people are in la-la land when it comes to trusting their masters. It can happen anywhere, and guess what? They'll be wearing kevlar...


Ironically, I am working on an update of that poster right now.

Use of more conventional (un-suppressed, iron sighted) guns -- I agree and make images with those also...even though AR15 is the home defense gun among my friends.

More sound tactical positions...got those in the works also, just that a lot of my subjects are unavailable for re-shoots to make incremental improvements.

carebear
January 7, 2006, 11:24 PM
I talked about it in the tommygun thread but I missed it here, glad it was brought up.

Again we have a normal looking person but with a fairly tricked out gun, sidesaddle, optic and heat shield. To you and I those are useful and normal mods but to the non-gunny audience, that gun is either "scary assault rifle that no one should own" (yeah, yeah, I know), OR, and perhaps worse, too expensive and complex looking; bringing up a "Geez, if that's what it takes to realistically defend myself, I could never afford to buy or learn to handle such an impressive weapon" feeling.

We see threads on here all the time of new shooters asking about which spendy gun of the week to buy, or clerks steering them to the top of the line rather than to the perfectly adequate. What resonates with us as gunnys is nowhere near what the average casual or non-shooter, much less anti-, finds "normal".

The gun in the poster can interfere with the message of the poster to the extent of obscuring or obliterating it.

I think I'd go, just like in the "tommygun" poster, with a stock, blue and wood, 18" bbl. w/ bead (heck, maybe longer), no mag extension or add-ons, mid-price point generic shotgun.

The kind of shotgun grandpa or dad might have kept around the house and that thus has an implicit paternal approval for a cautious young lady out on her own or young mother concerned about safety. The kind of thing to make them think, "Dad had one I remember, and nothing bad happened to me. It must be ok."

As far as tactical purity, lets get the shotgun in their hand before we hit them with the duck walk and Mozambique drills. The poster isn't a training course, its a question starter and mind opener.

Training can follow. To the uninitiated, I'm not sure that a minimalist view of a head staring down the barrel ensconced behind the mattress with a cell phone and hearing protection (tactical correctness) raises the right, basic, on point "What am I equipped to do if I heard an intruder in my house?" question.

If a lady knows enough to put on an optic and take cover, she doesn't need that poster anymore. Lets get the message in the door, THEN turn them into tactical-betties. :D

Oleg Volk
January 8, 2006, 12:01 AM
Something like this...

http://www.olegvolk.net/gallery/albums/technology/arms/phone_L9L5808.sized.jpg

GRB
January 8, 2006, 12:24 AM
I'd buy a copy...

Oleg Volk
January 8, 2006, 12:25 AM
More in the same vein:

http://www.olegvolk.net/gallery/albums/arms/911_L9L5803.sized.jpg

carebear
January 8, 2006, 12:27 AM
Yeah, I like that.

Got a critique though. (I feel like a hypocritical jerk, it isn't like I'VE actually produced a poster or other media of any kind. :rolleyes: )

How bout a smaller revolver? Although implicitly it is handle-able because the lady in the pic is handling it, I'm not sure Betty homemaker would picture herself owning a 6" magnum.

Yes, I'm aware of the irony of using the name "Betty", in an Oleg context, as the name for a NON-shooter. :evil:

mustanger98
January 8, 2006, 12:30 AM
Use of more conventional (un-suppressed, iron sighted) guns -- I agree and make images with those also...even though AR15 is the home defense gun among my friends.

More sound tactical positions...got those in the works also, just that a lot of my subjects are unavailable for re-shoots to make incremental improvements.

This reminds me of something else I learned in the public speaking class... that we all communicate (talking and listening, both) through the filters of our own experience. Two examples, for the sake of example only:

While Oleg's friends all prefer AR15's, not everybody does. They see a levergun and may possibly think "how totally outdated and stupidly untacticool" or something, but maybe not the whole thought. Or they may see a Mini-14 and think "there's that (insert favorite terms)".

While I prefer a 20" double barrel 12guage or a Winchester '94AE carbine, not everybody does. I see an AR15 and think something like "man, there's that ugly thing some of my friends got stuck with in 'Nam; I'll stick with my levergun" or "man, am I glad I opted for my grandfather's MBR- M1 Garand".

We all know the endless debate. My point is we all have our own ideas of what works for us. We all have our own preferences as to what feels right to us. We all have our own ideas of what will be the most effective when the chips are down. But, I think in the end, we have the same general idea when it comes to the Right To Keep And Bear Arms Shall Not Be Infringed. We all have the same basic idea when it comes to not being a victim. Therein lies the bottom line which is the most important point to the whole debate.

Oleg Volk
January 8, 2006, 12:32 AM
That revolver is a 4" .357 built on a 44mag frame, I forget the model number.

I'll make pics with smaller, cheaper and older guns, too...just give me time.

(I also have to work on occasion, if only to be able to buy another camera. My backup 10D I got intrade for a Glock 29)

mustanger98
January 8, 2006, 12:37 AM
Oleg, is it a Colt or a Smith? Not that it matters to me as I like both. I just can't see the cylinder release button to differentiate? One thing I do know- those big frames are cool.:cool:

Oleg Volk
January 8, 2006, 12:39 AM
Smith.

Powderman
January 8, 2006, 12:50 AM
More in the same vein:

http://www.olegvolk.net/gallery/albums/arms/911_L9L5803.sized.jpg

Once again, THAT'S the way to do it! w00t!

Great poster, Oleg!

carebear
January 8, 2006, 01:08 AM
I guess here's where my thematic elements would gravitate for posters specifically aimed at awakening female non-shooters or shaky anti's to the reality that armed home defense is a possibility and something worth thinking about. Most will transfer to concealed carry posters as well. The key is to actively intend every facet of the image to support, but not interfere with, the underlying message.

That's why I've been picky about putting cool "gun people" stuff into posters I feel aren't really aimed at gun people.

For the models and surroundings:

"Normal" looking women, simply but not mannishly or shabbily dressed. What we as shooters wear to the range is not what most people would wear anywhere. The target of the poster needs to be able to project themself into the models place, not distracted by "I would never wear that". If a non-shooter associates gun owning/carrying with real inconvenience or ugliness, they are going to have a mental block spring up. Our typical gun show clothes are the model for "don't dos". :evil:

added: I haven't seen an Oleg model yet who wasn't one form or another of the American "everywoman" so that isn't an issue. I have had issues with some of the more militant clothing choices though. But for a decision, I would ask a panel of the ladies reminding them of the target audience. Anything most of them said "Well, I and most wouldn't have worn it then." probably shouldn't be used.

Also, the setting needs to be something that resembles a mid-line catalog, average America but lived in. Something a person could look at and say, I could live there, sleep on those, drive that, shop there, etc.

For the guns; rifle, shotgun or pistol:

Non-military, definitely not "tactical" in any way - Like it or not, in much of the country "assault rifle" IS a dirty word. A poster aimed at getting people to begin just thinking about any gun positively is not the place to fight that battle. Baby steps.

Base guns, no optics or add-ons - Grampa didn't have a laser sight or forward handgrip on his deer rifle or duck gun. Dad's .38 in the shoebox on the closet shelf didn't have a light mounted on it.

Probably blue and wood, not plastics and stainless - We want to evoke Barney Fife, Grandpa and maybe Magnum PI, "safe" gun associations. Ultramodern guns are just sci-fi movies and cop shows, not the house next door. Your neighbor, the one who owns <gasp> a GUN, owns a scoped Model 70 or a 10/22.

For long guns:

Not oversized or overly complex - although as non-shooters gain experience and get training they can handle anything they want, a non-shooter will not be able to identify themselves in a picture with something that looks like it is heavy or awkward.

For handguns:

Usually use revolvers - due to commonality and that "older, safer" feel. I know a LOT of girls who are somewhat afraid of guns simply due to ex-boyfriends, family members or male acquaintances waving them around or acting like jerks, they now associate "gun" with "scary jerk man". Most gun jerks I know have the hot new pistol, revolvers are what "good guys" carried, the old safe male images.

Make them realistically and proportionately sized - yes, women can carry N-frames or might want a long barrel. Non-shooters know what they've seen, cops and good guys have medium frame, blue, 4" bbl mid-caliber revolvers. (Jerks also tend to own the big shiny magnums, cause they're "tough") Same rules apply for autos, if it looks awkward, you're interfering with the identification. Take care that the autos are also asthetically pleasing. I have shot almost everything at least once, but regardless of uber-efficiency I own and carry guns with classic lines and abstract beauty.

Women don't need only smaller guns, no mousegun extravaganda necessary, but a larger gun is on average intimidating to the non-shooter (til they shoot one, then many take quite to them ;) ).

Oleg Volk
January 8, 2006, 01:12 AM
I also have to use what I have access to. A lot of the fancier guns come from advertising shoots, too. I don't have a K-frame 38, though I could borrow one.

I have to think as an advertisier, use a K-frame as the generic "weapon". But I also want to show the variety of what's available out there, catch the interest of the gamers who would then spread the posters far and wide. My pictures have to be "cool" in order for the to propagate on the web.

carebear
January 8, 2006, 01:23 AM
I guess I'd argue that if they spread only to gunnies, so what?

To my mind, something Joe Sixpack, who gets it from his buddy Tactical Ted (the gun guy who visits the shops and THR), could then show to Betty Sixpack to help convince her, is what would really have effect.

If she just sees Ted's dream M-4gery it isn't going to help Joe make the case that her learning to shoot their plain jane 870 would be a "good thing."

Again, I realize you are doing all the work Oleg, and your stuff is great. I've liked all of it, across the board. You are really talented and you are so open to constructive help.

Which is how I hope you take or leave my thoughts. I realize I'm projecting what is, to me, an ideal situation, not necessarily a practical option.

Please know I thank you for doing what you do. :D

NineseveN
January 8, 2006, 02:41 AM
All 3 posters are winners, hands down IMHO. Good job man!

TallPine
January 8, 2006, 12:49 PM
I like the poster with the revolver :)

I think I will forward a copy of it to my friend who just bought her first very own gun at a gun show yesterday:cool:

45Broomhandle
January 8, 2006, 01:45 PM
MY FAVORITE IS THE REVOLVER PIC. Gotta' go with carebear's comments. Most ladies I'm acquainted with, or knowledgeable of, prefer a small revolver over the semi-auto. My wife's carry is a pretty, little (old) Colt Detective Special 2" in .38sp. My carry is a little 1934 Beretta .380acp. Bedside is a S&W .357mag Mdl 66, and under my desktop is a P-38 with full clip protruding half an inch from the butt, and the slide back. ALL are loaded with hollow points. Great posters, Oleg!

NOW, if she really wants to scare the crap out of the intruder, (probably couldn't kill or maim him), here's the gun to pose your model with. Liliput 4.25mm. A really great mouse gun. NOTE mag size compared to my little finger. ;)

http://img256.imageshack.us/img256/4332/liliput425mm600wide7ru.jpg

http://www.hunt101.com/img/356839.jpg

Speaking of pervs and fetishes, Gustave Flaubert said it best: "That man has missed something who has never left a brothel at sunrise feeling like throwing himself into a river out of pure disgust."

Herself
January 9, 2006, 12:08 AM
Two thoughts, Oleg:

1. You read H. Beam Piper? --Ach, and me married and so old already! The man was an unsung genius. Sure wish he had stayed around longer.

2. You're not, in the pentultimate poster, suggesting that a couch is any kind of cover, are you? Our heroine is well-armed with the revolver and telephone, but she's not armored at all. I know you (and the THR crowd) know this, but a lifetime of silly Westerns and detective films have given many people a very unrealistic impression of how easily most rounds pass through typical non-masonry walls and normal furniture.

--Herself

carebear
January 9, 2006, 12:52 AM
A lot of people have read Piper.

She's covered behind the arm-or of the couch. :D

mustanger98
January 9, 2006, 12:54 AM
You're not, in the pentultimate poster, suggesting that a couch is any kind of cover, are you? Our heroine is well-armed with the revolver and telephone, but she's not armored at all. I know you (and the THR crowd) know this, but a lifetime of silly Westerns and detective films have given many people a very unrealistic impression of how easily most rounds pass through typical non-masonry walls and normal furniture.

In my opinion, regarding Westerns, Louis L'Amour covered the effects of bullets on cover and concealment very well where appropriate to his story, sometimes noting that the .45Colt's 250gr lead slugs would penetrate 8-12" of pine as used in exterior walls and still retain substantial killing power. He didn't say anything that I recall in the passage I'm thinking of about that same lead slug turning the inside of that wall into shrapnel. I do agree that many more westerns, both in the written word and film, have not done anyone any favors in knowledge of firearms. Louis L'Amour himself said one does not simply sit down at the typewriter and dash off a western, and duely noted that most readers of westerns actually know the technical finepoints of the stories such as terrain, flora, fauna, horse-related issues, and weapons. If a cactus is where it isn't in reality, they get disgusted and toss the story aside as garbage. Same way for weapons and ballistic perfromance. Just something I was reminded of. And I'm agreeing about using that sofa. But I'm thinking that's concealment (something to minimize your sillouette behind) rather than cover from incoming fire.

Oleg Volk
January 9, 2006, 01:33 AM
I suggested concealment...my options were limited by the available props.

Cosmoline
January 9, 2006, 02:13 AM
What we as shooters wear to the range is not what most people would wear anywhere.

You wound me!

carebear
January 9, 2006, 02:48 AM
What we as shooters wear to the range is not what most people would wear anywhere.

You wound me!

That goes for rustic Alaskan types in spades. :evil:

Eisande
January 9, 2006, 03:42 AM
from a photog/lighting angle I humbly make the following comments;

the lady w/shotgun pic; maybe a little "moodier" lighting, it comes across too bright and stark to me. Maybe play with some more shadows and some tungsten lamps to give a warm kick?

I like the next two, I notice they are a bit cooler (spectrum wise), which of course gives the "nighttime" feel, maybe some shadows here would be nice as well.

Besides paying the bills with the LE job I sometimes moonlight (no pun intended) as a no/lo pay gaffer and occasional photog, and I KNOW what a pain in the ___
working with shadows can be. Either way , these posters are VERY good, and I am working hard at not trying to imitate them with some pics of my own. Maybe we should have a photo shot thread and we can start out with a theme and then submit our pics?

MyRoad
January 9, 2006, 04:08 AM
Others have said similar, but I'd drop the red-dot etc. -- I think the accessories add an element of tactical that unnecessarily introduces other issues and could cloud the core message. I'd keep it clear and as simple as possible, make it a stock 18" bbl. Mossberg 500 (or similar).

And I'd change the bed spread to something that doesn't look "camo" -- maybe just something pink and feminine to amplify the juxtaposition of female but not helpless.

I think it's great that she looks neither scared nor angry - she's just focused and doing what she has to do.

Otherwise, as always, fantastic ideas and fantastic execution.

http://www.olegvolk.net/gallery/albums/arms/monsters8608.sized.jpg

spacemanspiff
January 9, 2006, 12:33 PM
Our typical gun show clothes are the model for "don't dos". hey now! i wear to work what i wear to a gun show! and i'm in an equally 'yuppy' industry as you are, carebear. not all of us want to have TWO changes of clothes, ya know.

:neener:

mustanger98
January 9, 2006, 12:58 PM
What we as shooters wear to the range is not what most people would wear anywhere.

I dress like a cowboy everyday and everywhere regardless. I dress this way at the range too regardless of my choice of iron for that session, which has been known to be levergun and Garand in the same day... I recall the time my Stetson caught that en bloc... But then, most people around me do not dress like me. They're either Wal-Mart or L.L. Bean.

Our typical gun show clothes are the model for "don't dos".

Not if you shoot SASS/CAS.

Dr.Rob
January 9, 2006, 02:02 PM
I think carebear has some good points, the second two posters are better...

#1. I don't feel like I'm looking at an advertisment for add-on tactical accessories.

#2. You can see the model's faces more clearly.

Still, good strong messages.

(On a side note asking a gunny about 'fashion sense' inside the bedroom or otherwise is behavior that seems 'dubious' at best. ;) )

carebear
January 9, 2006, 11:42 PM
Oh, I'm eight flavors of dubious. :D

Stiletto Null
January 9, 2006, 11:56 PM
I know your gear can handle low light...how about using a tac light and bounceback to light up the gun and the model's face some? Deck the model out in the silliest-looking PJs possible. No make-up, dishevelled hair, etc. etc..

Just an idea.

Nice pic, btw. Are your posters open for ripping off?

Oleg Volk
January 10, 2006, 12:12 AM
Yes, improve on them please.

The model is from Texas, but I can re-shoot with another subject (maybe a guy this time) with an 870 and a Surefire forend, no optic.

Stiletto Null
January 10, 2006, 12:17 AM
FLOPPY BEDROOM SLIPPERS!!! :D

I like the pictures (exposure, etc. and I'm too lazy to recrop other people's pictures because I always wind up disliking re-crops vs. the originals—I'm just an amateur w/ a P&S), just throwing some ideas out there. :)

Your series with the SVT40 seem to be circulating around in odd places on the Internet, I'll note.

If you enjoyed reading about ""Monsters under the bed" and other posters." here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!