About shooting through front doors...


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jsalcedo
January 7, 2006, 06:22 AM
Fresno man kills intruder

Confrontation ends when 80-year-old man shoots through his front door.

An 80-year-old man said he feared for his life when he shot and killed a man who was trying to break into his central Fresno home early Thursday.

Fidencio Garcia Sr. said he ordered the man to leave numerous times before he fired one shot from a .38-caliber revolver through the front door of his house at 448 E. Andrews Ave.

"I had no choice," Garcia said.

"It's your life or mine," Garcia said he told himself as the man stood on the porch kicking the screen door and appeared to be on the verge of breaking it down.

The man collapsed on the porch, where he was declared dead when officers arrived.

The shooting was reported shortly before 4:30 a.m.

Garcia, a retired automobile generator repairman, was taken to police headquarters, interviewed by detectives and returned to his home about 2 p.m.

Detectives said the case will be forwarded to the Fresno County District Attorney's Office to determine whether the shooting was justified or whether criminal charges should be filed.

"Preliminary indications are that the elderly homeowner believed an assault was imminent and that he was incapable of defending himself against a much younger assailant," Lt. Randy Dobbins said.

Garcia said he was not worried about charges being filed against him.

"I told them the truth," he said. "I can't deny I shot and killed somebody, but I had a good reason."
http://www.fresnobee.com/local/story/11658445p-12387388c.html

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Matt Noe
January 7, 2006, 06:36 AM
Way to slam some through the front door. That's why I like the ( oh no afraid to say it.. Here it comes) the 10mm. I could use the 45/70 but I think all the follow up rounds could be fun.;)

asknight
January 7, 2006, 06:56 AM
I think the fact that it was only a "screen door" between the two will be a deciding factor. No attorney in his right mind would consider a screen door a viable defense barrier. If it were a heavy wood or steel door, then I think the outcome of this story wouldn't be favorable to the homeowner.

whm1974
January 7, 2006, 08:11 AM
If it were a heavy wood or steel door, then I think the outcome of this story wouldn't be favorable to the homeowner.

A door is only as strong as the jam or frame. A lot of people make the mistake of putting a strong door on a week frame.

It is also not hard for a big person to kick a door down.

-Bill

mbs357
January 7, 2006, 09:10 AM
Good shoot.
I can see shooting a person breaking down a door, easily.
Much harder to justify shooting a guy out on the porch saying bad words.

Highland Ranger
January 7, 2006, 10:22 AM
Hope he still has a gun . . . . old man, broken door, newspaper and no gun is a bad combination.

V4Vendetta
January 7, 2006, 11:09 AM
"I think the fact that it was only a "screen door" between the two will be a deciding factor."


I agree.

shermacman
January 7, 2006, 11:12 AM
Good shot placement, too!

I love a story with a happy ending!

slide
January 7, 2006, 11:28 AM
I think the fact that it was only a "screen door" between the two will be a deciding factor. No attorney in his right mind would consider a screen door a viable defense barrier. If it were a heavy wood or steel door, then I think the outcome of this story wouldn't be favorable to the homeowner.

Here it NM it depends on the shooter and situation. I personally know of an instance where a woman shot through a strong apartment door yet wasn't prosecuted. She had nowhere to go, and the guy would have had the ability to break down the door at some time which was unpredictable. Once broken down, it would be too late. So she wasn't charged.

ATAShooter
January 7, 2006, 11:50 AM
First, my opinion... GOOD !! Second,... here in Va. he would have been tried for murder, due to Va has a retreat law clause, and the door was closed. If the perp would have kicked open the door, then the shooting occurs,... here he would have been ok. The NRA had called me about, oh, I'd say about a month ago and asked if I support Florida's " force on force " law going nationwide. I told her "Hell Yeah". She said the NRA was going to start the legal proceedings to see if they could get it done and wanted donation to go toward legal fees.

armoredman
January 7, 2006, 12:18 PM
Hope he still has a gun . . . . old man, broken door, newspaper and no gun is a bad combination.
Highly unlikely - taken as evidence. Hope he has a second gun, or a child who can get him one AND repair the door quickly!

bermbuster
January 7, 2006, 12:46 PM
No back door?

Snagglepuss
January 7, 2006, 01:02 PM
Good for him, I hope some dumb ass lawyer doesn't cause him any problems.

p35
January 7, 2006, 02:49 PM
I've probably told this story before, but a friend's cousin died that way. He was staying a weekend with friends at an apartment complex made up of a bunch of identical buildings- you know the type. One night he went out and got drunk and came back to the wrong building. When his key didn't open the door, he started banging on the door and hollering. The guy inside fired a shotgun through the door and killed him.

We obviously don't know all the facts here, but this isn't always a heroic situation.

Standing Wolf
January 7, 2006, 10:13 PM
"It's your life or mine," Garcia said he told himself as the man stood on the porch kicking the screen door and appeared to be on the verge of breaking it down.

Makes you wonder how many criminals are suicidal.

Frandy
January 7, 2006, 10:44 PM
...as the man stood on the porch kicking the screen door and appeared to be on the verge of breaking it down.

From my NC Concealed Carry Handgun Training handbook:

"NC law allows the use of force up to and including deadly force against an intruder (G.S. 14-51.1) to prevent a forcible entry into the home or residence or to terminate the intruder's unlawful entry if the appplicant reasonably apprehends that the intruder may kill or may inflict serious bodily harm to the occupant or others in the home or residence, or if the occupant reasonably believes that the intruder intends to commit a felony in the home or residence."

Interestingly, in NC, had the intruder actually completed the illegal entry into the residence, the resident could no longer use lethal force, unless the intruder imminently threatened death, serious injury or sexual assault.

So, had this happened in NC, the law was with Garcia all the way. Oh, and there's more. Here's the position of NC about "porches."


North Carolina Supreme Court

Criminal Law and Procedure

G.S. 14-51.1, Permitting Use of Deadly Physical Force Against Intruder by Lawful Occupant “Within” Home, May Apply to Porch of Home Under Certain Circumstances—Court of Appeals Ruling Reversed

State v. Blue, 356 N.C. 79, 565 S.E.2d 133 (28 June 2002), reversing, 143 N.C. App. 478, 550 S.E.2d 6 (15 May 2001). The court ruled that G.S. 14-51.1, permitting the use of deadly physical force against an intruder by a lawful occupant “within” a home, may apply to the porch of a home under certain circumstances. The court noted that the functional use of a porch may not differ significantly from that of the interior of the living quarters. However, porches vary in description and usefulness from large, screened-in porches to small, uncovered stoops. Whether a porch, deck, garage, or other appurtenance attached to a dwelling is within the home under G.S. 14-51.1 is a question of fact for the jury’s determination based on the evidence presented at trial. The court also noted that this statute broadened the defense of habitation to make the use of deadly force justifiable whether to prevent an unlawful entry into a home or to terminate an unlawful entry by an intruder.

M2 Carbine
January 8, 2006, 01:26 AM
Good for the homeowner.

I've heard of several cases like this in Texas. Good shootings.

g56
January 8, 2006, 02:23 AM
"Fidencio Garcia Sr. said he ordered the man to leave numerous times before he fired one shot from a .38-caliber revolver through the front door of his house at 448 E. Andrews Ave."

"It's your life or mine," Garcia said he told himself as the man stood on the porch kicking the screen door and appeared to be on the verge of breaking it down."

The article says two different things, which one is correct? If only the screen door was stopping the assailant, and he could clearly see and identify, then it's a good shoot. If the main door was closed, and he couldn't identify exactly what was going on, maybe the assailant had left and he didn't understand someone else was now pounding on his door. The difference between self defense and negligent homicide lies in the details, and the newspaper article doesn't have enough information to determine that.

I would hope that nobody would ever shoot through a closed door, if you can't identify your target, don't shoot!

el44vaquero
January 8, 2006, 02:31 AM
Now what if you shoot through a closed bedroom door? Middle of the night, guy finds bedroom door locked and starts trying to force his way in, so would this be a "good shoot"?

carebear
January 8, 2006, 02:36 AM
I'd wait til I can see him regardless, or the door starts splintering, or he starts shooting through it at me, maybe if I see a flame start up. Until then, I am safe and hoping he pulls a groin or something.

magsnubby
January 8, 2006, 05:47 PM
"Fidencio Garcia Sr. said he ordered the man to leave numerous times before he fired one shot from a .38-caliber revolver through the front door of his house at 448 E. Andrews Ave."

"It's your life or mine," Garcia said he told himself as the man stood on the porch kicking the screen door and appeared to be on the verge of breaking it down."


According to todays paper Mr. Garcia shot through the screen door. The perp was 21 and was from out of town (belived from Lancaster).

Sure sounds like a home invasion to me. There's been a few in the last year. Usually the same mo, elderly person or single mother, kick in the front door. Guess an 80 yo wasn't as easy a target as he seemed.

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