Anyone else had trouble from "the other guys?"


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kwallace
January 8, 2006, 06:15 AM
I visited another colt 1911 forum site, and got banned after posting one post.

Anyone had a similar experience? Here's what went down.

I posted pics of two 1911 colts I had, and asked people to comment on how much they might be worth if I were to sell them in a private sale (as opposed to a dealer).

The mods ignored the bit about "how much might they be worth" and just interpreted the thing as a "for sale ad". Without even asking me my intent, they simply deleted the message, and sent me nasty-grams about violating the "no for sale ad" rule.

I replied thusly:


If you state that you are "thinking" about selling a gun - that is a for sale ad.

No. That is someone saying they are thinking about selling a gun. Thinking about something, is, by its very definition, the opposite of actually doing it!

If you state that you have two guns, and "one of them has to go, help me decide" - that is a gun for sale ad.

No. That is someone asking for help making a decision about a selection between two things - not the sale of one of them.

If you state "I wonder what this gun is worth if I were to sell it" - that is a gun for sale.

No. This is someone trying to find out the value of something they own - not trying to establish a price and conduct a sales transaction. Again, thinking is by definition NOT doing.


If you state "I have a gun for sale on ebay" - that is a gun for sale.

I'll grant this one on a technicallity. It's still not a sales offer by any means, but I'm feeling rather concillatory.



For something to constitute a sale, an item must be identified as being "FOR SALE" and it must actively solicit an offer. The ad must state, specifically, or imply without any doubt by choice of words that merchandise, as described, is being offered in exchange for a price or offer, or trade, or other exchange or remuneration. The offer must be made in the context of a sale, or in a place where it is commonly understood that an item is for sale (ie, a "for sale" forum).

If it does not do all these things, IT IS NOT A SALE AD.

As an example of all this: parking my car in my front yard does not consititute an offer of sale. But if put a sign on it that says "For Sale", or mark it in any other such a way that clearly identifies my specific intent to sell, such as by placing a dollar amount on it in a conspicuous location, only then is it an offer for sale. Lacking these clear identifying marks, people in my yeard would not be contemplating a purchase - they would be trespassing.



You risk having your membership revoked if you do not follow the "no firearms for sale" rule.

Revoke away, dude. I signed up just last night, and I'm more than willing to find another place to exercise my freedom of speech today. And I'm more than willing to accept your limitations as laid out by your rules. It is, after all, your forum. No matter how ludicrous I think your rules are; they are your rules.

And, of course, they immediately took me up on my offer, in spite of the fact that I specifically acknowleged their rules, and their right to make those rules.

So, I'm not upset that they banned me, and not really suprised either.

But I have to wonder what sort of mentality takes someone else's thoughts, reads their OWN intent into them, and then bans the other based upon their own faulty interpretations?

Is this kind of thing common among gun disccusion boards?" Or is this one site somehow unique? I'm hoping for the latter.

kwallace

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carebear
January 8, 2006, 06:16 AM
Common on all kinds of boards.

THR is really quite good in that regard.

dasmi
January 8, 2006, 06:41 AM
Revoke away, dude. I signed up just last night, and I'm more than willing to find another place to exercise my freedom of speech today.
While you may or may not have deserved to get banned, it would be well to remember you don't have any right to freedom of speech on a forum. This forum is privately owned, your freedom of speech extends only as far as the owner wants it to.

jtward01
January 8, 2006, 06:46 AM
I, too, was banned from that "other" 1911 forum. I criticized Springfield Armory for something (doesn't matter what it was, now) and the moderators deleted my post. When I complained about the censorship I was banned. It wasn't until after I was banned that I found THR and I don't miss the old board at all.

buttrap
January 8, 2006, 06:49 AM
Rule one..they get on the case you need to be less buttheaded about it. More like oh sorry the gun its not for sale..just was wondeing what its worth is all. Plus some forums have mini nazis calling the shots too.

EZ CZ75
January 8, 2006, 06:54 AM
There's another forum besides THR? Heresy:cuss:

kwallace
January 8, 2006, 06:56 AM
Rule one..they get on the case you need to be less buttheaded about it. More like oh sorry the gun its not for sale..just was wondeing what its worth is all. Plus some forums have mini nazis calling the shots too.

I didn't say the guns were for sale. Then I specifically said the guns were not for sale. He didn;t seem to take that into account.

Oh well.

As I said in the post to them... it's their board, they make their rules, and I will just vote with my feet.

no big loss really. THR looks like it has at LEAST a hundred times the traffic that they do. This sort of thing is prolly why.

carebear
January 8, 2006, 07:34 AM
That... and our sparkling repartee. :D

ALASKACAJUN
January 8, 2006, 08:06 AM
You should have ended your last PM to the mod with " No really dude, how much do you think I can get for these...?" :neener:

- Clint

joab
January 8, 2006, 08:10 AM
I left that same site voluntarily over a year ago over the heavy handed moderation.
Their "for sale" policy borders on paranoia.

Funny, I was in a very bad mood and wrote a fairly belligerent PM to the offending moderator telling him what he could do with his attitude and forum.
Ana apparently I'm still an active member there

If you desire a 1911 specific group that isn't full of itself try these guys http://www.1911og.org/forum/index.php? (1911 Owners Group)

Tim Burke
January 8, 2006, 10:41 AM
So let me get this straight... your first post over there is titled "Sell or not, and how much?" and includes the line:I'm thinking about selling them.When pointed out that this violates the rules of the forum (the pertinent being the ones which you have conveniently reproduced in bold above), the same rules you agreed to follow when you registered, you decide the correct response is to argue over the correctness of the rules, and invite the site to ban you? And they did?
No, I've never had any trouble like that.

Technosavant
January 8, 2006, 10:42 AM
The rules are the rules. If you decide to violate the rules here and get whiny about it, bannination will likely ensue here as well. Every forum has rules- some have more, some less. Violation of them and ridiculing those who have provided the forum, dedicated time to run it, and paid for the upkeep is foolish and rude.

Yes, that forum has more rules than here. I have somehow managed to not PO the mods over there, and I am still a member after a couple years. So you don't like it. Get over it. You don't need to cry about it here.

Let's get back to talking guns.

TarpleyG
January 8, 2006, 10:59 AM
I don't contribute over there near as much as I used too just because of their over-the-top attitude not only on this subject but just about anything else. Methinks someone has a "complex" over there.

Just ask your question over here. IME, the advice has been better anyway for the most part.

Greg

1 old 0311
January 8, 2006, 12:03 PM
I got thrown off the FIRINGLINE for life. There was a political discussion and one of the moderarors (Mar#@) took a different position. I am a Viet vet with one family member in Iraq, and another in Afganastan, you KNOW what side of the fence I am on. He was on the other side so he bared me for life. Gee big loss.:neener: :neener: :neener: :neener: :neener: :neener: :neener: :neener: :neener: :neener:

Kevin

bubbaturbo
January 8, 2006, 12:11 PM
bannination?

Old Dog
January 8, 2006, 12:17 PM
Why is bashing the 1911 Forum such good sport around here? Or bashing any other forums, for that matter? You don't like the style, the moderators, whatever, just don't friggin' go there. I grow weary of people who constantly complain about other forums, there's simply no purpose for it.

Plus, the 1911 Forum is an excellent source for 1911 information and there's a wealth of pistol (and revolver, too) knowledge on that board.

Double Naught Spy
January 8, 2006, 12:19 PM
kwallace, there area lot of former 1911Forum people out there, some banned and some who left by choice. As a new member there, you probably were not familiar with all the hassles of the past concerning product sales. The mods have shut down lots of threads dealing with sales, considerations of sales, and worths. You are not the first to have a thread shut down, but you were not banned for the ad, but your attitude and argumentative nature in how you addressed the moderators on the issue. I think a couple of the folks here have already classified your behavior with specific terms and based on what you posted, their opinions seem solid.

I am amazed that while playing in their yard that you thought it would be okay to tell them how to run things and that you let them know you were kind enough to be concilliatory to grant them on argument on a technicality.

I posted pics of two 1911 colts I had, and asked people to comment on how much they might be worth if I were to sell them in a private sale (as opposed to a dealer).

Obviously, you are interested in selling your colts. Your request for information on their worth was stated as being for the purpose of sales consideration. That is interpreted as you entertaining offers to sell your guns. Obviously, you aren't selling your guns if somebody doesn't offer you enough, but that doesn't mean your guns are for sale.

It looks like you are trying to sell your guns because you state you are interested in selling, you have posted pics, and you want people to tell you the worth of the guns. One form of "worth" is determining what a person is willing to pay for an item.

If you are not posting to sell, then maybe you are too lazy to do your own work? I noticed you didn't post a pictureless thread saying that you were interested in selling some of your guns and that you were trying to track down source materials so as to determine their value.


You risk having your membership revoked if you do not follow the "no firearms for sale" rule.

Revoke away, dude. I signed up just last night, and I'm more than willing to find another place to exercise my freedom of speech today. And I'm more than willing to accept your limitations as laid out by your rules. It is, after all, your forum. No matter how ludicrous I think your rules are; they are your rules.

When you have your own forum, you can have your own freedom of speech. As you noted, it is their forum, not yours.

By the way, as indicated by your quotes, you commanded the folks at 1911forum to ban you. Don't get you panties all in a wad because they did what you ordered.

No. That is someone saying they are thinking about selling a gun. Thinking about something, is, by its very definition, the opposite of actually doing it!

You might want to spend some time with the good book to reflect back on your words. No, not the Bible - the dictionary. You seem very confused on what words like "opposite" and "definition" in regard to their meanings.

Mannlicher
January 8, 2006, 12:54 PM
gee whiz, stop whining.

waterhouse
January 8, 2006, 01:24 PM
this is a sticky from the other website:

The number of threads have increased recently that are borderline firearms for sale, and will not be tolerated in this forum.

If you state that you are "thinking" about selling a gun - that is a for sale ad.

If you state that you have two guns, and "one of them has to go, help me decide" - that is a gun for sale ad.

If you state "I wonder what this gun is worth if I were to sell it" - that is a gun for sale.

If you state "I have a gun for sale on ebay" - that is a gun for sale.

If you are not sure if your post is against forum rules, check with any Staff member BEFORE you post.

You risk having your membership revoked if you do not follow the "no firearms for sale" rule.

This also applies to hinting that you are looking to purchase a specific firearm, or asking who has one for sale. THERE ARE NO WTT/WTB/WTS FIREARM POSTS ALLOWED ON THIS FORUM.

Their "nasty gram" to you was only pointing out the rules which you seem to have missed. They have rules, and you didn't follow them. You then tried to tell them that their rules didn't make sense (whether they do or not is not the issue . . . it it their forum, and if you can't follow their rules you are welcome to not post there.)


But I have to wonder what sort of mentality takes someone else's thoughts, reads their OWN intent into them, and then bans the other based upon their own faulty interpretations?

They have rules because people kept doing exactly what you did, and then getting an offer to buy a gun. The moderators felt that these posts were actually becoming "for sale" posts even though they didn't start out as such, so they made very clear rules. They were not "reading into your thoughts." They made rules that leave no gray area, and you were in the gray area that they tried to avoid, so your post got deleted.

Although hey have been known for being slightly heavy handed, I usually go check out the forum member's reviews before I buy a new 1911. I rarely post, but there is some good information there, and I appreciate the site for that. I see no problem with how they dealt with this situation.

Jbar4Ranch
January 8, 2006, 02:44 PM
There was a lot of friction between the new owners of Nicks United Forums and several of the members, but the only place I've ever been banned from is Glock Talk (Long story, ex-wife, smear campaign). I don't think Parabellum ever banned me from his forums after he took over, but it became such a hassle that I quit posting on any of them.

Preacherman
January 8, 2006, 02:48 PM
Enough of the forum wars, already! :fire:

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