10mm construed as illegal? TX


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notupperwareplease
January 8, 2006, 07:23 PM
"It is unlawful to possess, manufacture, transport, repair or sell handgun ammunition that is designed primarily for the purpose of penetrating metal or body armor and to be used principally in pistols and revolvers."
http://www.nraila.org/GunLaws/StateLaws.aspx?ST=TX

Under this clause, could the 10mm round be considered illegal? Considering that the 10mm was intended to puncture through walls, car doors (metal), etc.?
http://www.home.earthlink.net/~gnappi/10fbi.htm

I don't know how reputable the second site is...

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JohnKSa
January 8, 2006, 07:34 PM
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No.

The five-seven has been declared legal along with ammo of the proper variety. If it's ok, there's no question that the 10mm will be perfectly legal.

notupperwareplease
January 8, 2006, 07:48 PM
Ok thanks. Just thought the clause was a bit shaky and was open to wide interpretation.

JohnKSa
January 8, 2006, 08:39 PM
WARNING! This post is written with the express intent to inform and entertain. Due to the differences in human nature, behavior and culture, it is possible that information contained within this post may annoy the reader although that is certainly not the intent of the author. Reading past this point constitutes an agreement by the reader to waive his legal right not to be annoyed by anonymous communication on the internet.

If you do not wish to waive this right, please stop reading at this point and use the ignore feature on this forum to avoid future posts by this author. Thank you.

So far, I'm not aware of any entire CALIBERS that have been declared AP. AP refers to the ammunition, and generally only to PISTOL ammunition specifically designed to be AP. Non-expanding, FMJ ammunition with a hard (steel or other) core.

Rockstar
January 8, 2006, 09:47 PM
Bad conclusion based on false premise.

Langenator
January 9, 2006, 12:51 AM
Was the Russky 7.62x25 Tokarev designed to punch through body armor, or at least kevlar, or is that just a bonus?

newfalguy101
January 9, 2006, 01:04 AM
I believe the "rules" are in relation to ammo that is designed to punch body armor, usually by means of an extremely hard bullet core ( such as tungsten), and designed to be fired through a handgun.

I believe just about any cartridge at or above .357 MAG can given the right circumstances punch most soft body armor.

There are a few cartridge/bullet combos that will often punch armor, but thats NOT the initial design criteria.

notupperwareplease
January 9, 2006, 01:31 AM
Just wondering if, hypothetically, you shoot someone with a 10mm round in SD whether or not a DA could turn that law around to stick you for possession of illegal ammunition in addition to (or in place of, if they didn't think they could convict you) murder.

Guess not?

progunner1957
January 9, 2006, 01:39 AM
If so, there goes the:
.500 Magnum
.44 "
.41 "
.357 "
.38 Super
.454 Casull
.45 Winchester magnum
.480 Ruger
.22 magnum

I hope whoever said the answer to the original questionUnder this clause, could the 10mm round be considered illegal? Considering that the 10mm was intended to puncture through walls, car doors (metal), etc.?
is "no" is right...

Jim March
January 9, 2006, 03:15 AM
A 357Mag 158gr round doing 1,450 can punch significantly deeper than a 10mm 155gr doing the same speed.

whm1974
January 9, 2006, 03:23 AM
Just wondering if, hypothetically, you shoot someone with a 10mm round in SD whether or not a DA could turn that law around to stick you for possession of illegal ammunition in addition to (or in place of, if they didn't think they could convict you) murder.

Guess not?

Only someplace where gun ownership isn't common. A clever DA could sway a jury into beleliving that the 10mm(or other cartiages) Auto is "only" good for AP appications.

-Bill

Draven32
January 10, 2006, 04:36 AM
Was the Russky 7.62x25 Tokarev designed to punch through body armor, or at least kevlar, or is that just a bonus?

Only if it was designed by a psychic.

McCall911
January 10, 2006, 09:26 AM
One website for body armor shows 10mm factory ammo to be only at NIJ Level II, which goes from 9mm Para. up to .44 Magnum with the lighter 180-grain bullets. Here's the link to one of several I found:

http://www.firstdefense.com/html/vest_101_reasons_to_wear_spectra.htm

I gather from this info that the 10mm should probably be considered roughly equivalent to the .357 Magnum. In other words, whatever armor which stops one will stop the other.

HankB
January 10, 2006, 10:31 AM
. . . designed primarily for the purpose of penetrating metal or body armor . . . Note the "primarily designed" qualifier. I'm certain the S&W .460 revolver revolver cartridge will penetrate most soft body armor, but that's a side effect of its bullet mass and velocity - it was not primarily designed to do that.

Neither was the 10mm, even in it's original (Norma?) full power loading.

boofus
January 10, 2006, 10:59 AM
'Armor Piercing' has a very strict legal definition.

See US Code Title 18 Section 921

(B) The term “armor piercing ammunition” means—

(i) a projectile or projectile core which may be used in a handgun and which is constructed entirely (excluding the presence of traces of other substances) from one or a combination of tungsten alloys, steel, iron, brass, bronze, beryllium copper, or depleted uranium; or

(ii) a full jacketed projectile larger than .22 caliber designed and intended for use in a handgun and whose jacket has a weight of more than 25 percent of the total weight of the projectile.

Nothing is considered armor piercing in the eyes of the law unless it meets that definition.

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